MOPR'S 4/29/02 SBA MTG MINS
Notes: This mtg was called for by DA at the 4/25/02 Special Bd of Ald mtg. I was about 10 mins late tonight.
The city's official minutes show that DA's motion to approve Resolution #04-29-02, 2nd by RC & read by the city clerk in its entirety; & after some discussion by RH, JW, DA & TB, the voice vote was: Yes: TB, DA, RS, RC, BL. Abstained: RH. Recused: JW.
The city's mins do not mention what the resolution was about, but go on that there was a brief discussion on changing to an alternate day off for the PBW Dept employees. May 8th holiday (Harry S. Truman) was in the middle of the week of big trash pickup 6-10 May.
Also that RC brought up the allowance of the new city clerk being given some training time allowances for some of the unique tasks that come with every new position. RC motioned to allow the city clerk 30% training time for 2 months...
Present: RH, TB, DA, RS, JW, RC, BL, DM & PP.
RC: ...given some of the uniqueness of the training, any, anyone who goes to a new job, there's, there's different filing systems, there's different uh, uh some of the procedures is not something that, that declares you not being a professional because you don't know what to do. & I would like to make it clear that I feel that the city clerk needs to draw upon some of the experience & knowledge from perhaps the uh, city accountant or the uh, the city atty that uh, that being understood, that's what they're supposed to be doing. Uh they're, I don't expect them to do it over & over, but I expect them for the first time or so to uh do it & then keep some type of a standard operating procedure or something like that so they don't need to do that. & I don't think that this bd has ever in the past, not allowed that type of a uniqueness & training & contact. So that's why I'm goin' for that so.
DM: I don't think anybody denies PP the right to training, but first of all, it's training I don't think had been budgeted last yr. No one anticipated having a new city clerk. So that's one of the reasons I asked, try to get the amt of training that we've spent, see if the bd, much like the resolution that we don't have the money for the add'l position. Is there a particular place where we should have this training available for this position? Also I guess there's a question of, as he's learning with no experience, would there be a salary level the bd could recommend where he should be at. ________ $43,000 that is budgeted in there, or at some level _______ . Usually a new hire comes in at a level a little bit lower. Then & as your training & experience brings him up _____________________ . Since the bd did vote on the clerk, I think it should be the bd's call on what that salary should be.
RC: YH, Just uh let, I don't want you moving off the topic. The topic is not the salary, it's the fact that the city clerk will need a certain amt of unique uh, individual, uh training, based on the way the system works. That doesn't mean that in the future, there can't be a standard or better operating procedure that will uh minimize that when a new clerk is broken in. As far as the salary thing goes, if you wish to make that a separate item, that's fine, but that's not part of this dicussion.
DM: Is there a level, RC, the amt of training, dollar-wise that you'd like to recommend or is it just - I realize there's training required, but how much should we go? RC: I'll put it in the form of a, just like anyone in a new hire position, there's a certain amt of training allowed. I know where I work, they give a certain amt & I'd say that we'll go with something like 30% uh of his time in the training situation for say the first month & a half. Then, at that point, we'll relay what (someone coughs).
DM: In addition to 30% of his time, is there a certain amt of training like when the training people come, like WTI does the payroll or EM is required as a legal expert, or Mr. Croghan from our auditors? They charge the city when they come in to evaluate. Is there a dollar amt?
RC: YH, I doubt very seriously that there will be 30% used. I'm just saying that as a ballpark. I think if the city clerk needs to have a discussion, as long as they document what they're talking about, I feel that that will be creating the standard operating procedure, which is a great training tool to start with for any clerk coming in behind him. Also, I believe that 30% is very understandable for the first month or so & then at that point, we can, we can go back. So for the next 2 months, I'd like to say that the city clerk be allowed that, that use if the city clerk needs it, if I can get a 2nd. RA: 2nd, but I got a comment.
DM: _________ You said 30% of his time for 2 months, correct, RC? RC: Yes, YH. DM: 2nd DA & you had a comment? DA: Yes, first, I don't want anybody to be misled here that _____________________ I've been involved in, you know, city gov't, including the time that I was mayor, the city atty, um the accounting group, um the engineering group was used extensively, continuously & I don't think you're ever gonna see (someone coughs) with some uh, um general practices & procedures that ____ cut back on that ultimately. But again, that has at least in the past, been part of the common pratice. & then again, I hope that while we're training the city um clerk, this goes back to what RH said at the previous mtg, that let's go ahead & train another person, I guess the assistant city clerk, so that we could pick up on instead of ___________ that we're this far along & we didn't have a back-up trained. So if we could include or remember that, & let's bring someone along as well. & again, I hope that um you know, if PP will organize you know, that, that position, that we could actually cut back on the need to call the city atty or the accountant every time there's a question. So again, let's look at this as an improvement opportunity. Tku. DM: Tku, DA. JW.
JW: I disagree with RC 100% on the whole ideal, but he's sayin' 30% of his time, so I guess that's basically 30% of his salary, almost a third - he could spend up to that time on training. I just uh, when PP was brought in, he was told by the bd that he knew everything & wouldn't need any training. & now we're gonna spend 30% & the dollar amt that you (PP is glaring at JW) - PP, Do you want to say something. I'll yield the floor to you & give you $30 if you want to say something, you can. RC: YH, if ah Ald Whitteaker - cut off by JW: (shouts) Hey, I have the floor. DM: Let's keep some uh (one gavel bang) JW: But anyway, I don't know what his salary is, but he doesn't deserve full salary. & 30% of what, you need toknow before you're votin' on this. Is he gonna make $43,000 or the 10 he deserves, or what's he gonna make?
RS: I believe that I've been here a little over a yr, & for the yr I've been here, um, I remember this whole Bd approving bills from our city atty from our clerk, calling him for advice. I don't know how it'd be any different. I'm gonna support this.
BL: Yeah, I didn't take it to mean of this amt of money. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way. 30% of his time based on a 40-hr wk, averages 12 hrs/wk, maybe the city accountant, city atty for 1-1/2 or 2 mos, it's a set amt. 72 hrs for 1.5 months, 96 hrs. I didn't look at it as an amt. But still again, I wouldn't have any problem with it either. The way I look at it, the last clerk we had, there was a day she walked through those doors that she was new, that she probably had to have a lot of help, & I also approved a lot of bills. I'm not saying she had the experience from the day she walked in the door. (audience people are like mumbling) I'm almost certain she didn't, just like any other new job. (more audience noises indicate disagreement) This guy needs the training, he's entitled to it & I'll support it also.
RH: How many hrs do you work a wk? PP: What I've been averaging so far? Sometime I leave at 8:30 at night, _______________________. RS: PP, Can you tell us how many hrs you're billing the city for? PP: No additional hours. I'm a salaried employee & that's what __________ ___________. BL: As far as the agenda tonight & as far as his pay, I was um going to agendize. I assumed you'd probably be handled under Personnel in exec ses at the next regularly scheduled mtg. Um, if somebody wants to do it tonite, but that way I felt like it, w/o EM here to advise us, that's the way I felt like it probably needed to be done. I mean we've done it several times before on Personnel. ________________ .
JW: Did you ever get an answer, or can PP tell us how much he's spent with these other companies so far up to this point? We'll all know when the bills come.They're gonna bill us. They ain't givin' us that time. DM: Mr.Croghan had I believe $300, I don't have the sheet with me, & WTI had broken out into several things. As DA pointed out, there's various things in there, there's continuous training; we've had problems with the computer in the back there unfortunately. So we're gonna do the update on that. So there is some cost in there where it's kind of interwoven with about 3 different areas, so ________ broken it down.
DM cont'd: The reason I brought this up was, I felt it prudent that the mayor look into the training to see if there is additional training to kind of look at. I didn't mean this as a slap at anyone, just to kind of evaluate overall costs, kind of part of overall evaluating what's going on over here in the city. I know there's all kinds of rumors that I'm gonna fire the whole crew up there. Just like the fact that we're spending time bringing PP up here, spent over eight hours as you said here. If I wanted to bring a whole crew up there, it would probably take me 2 yrs get back where we are right now. So, sorry if anyone feels like their jobs are endangered. I'm not sure about the total cost in there, but I was just looking into it & didn't mean it to - just look at & try to get the whole ball of wax together before I evaluate it. Sometimes people see just a few of the numbers at the beginning, they'll start getting into a this-or-that kind of a thing. That's why I really didn't want it to come out until we got the full picture on it. q/c?
DA: I truly don't believe that you're um looking um at this to single PP out. Um, I hope that you're lookin' at it to improve the city &, & get a track on everything. & that goes to my point is that um, we're asking & keepin' track of how much time PP is utilizing, you know, outside source, being the city atty. The accountant, I've never in the dozen yrs I've been involved in this gov't, have we ever questioned the city clerk or documented that. But I would ask that if we want to compare apples to apples, why don't we go back & look at that? I don't think that's necessary. I, if, if, I think that the way I understand it, PP is the city clerk, & we're gonna give him the support & resources to do the job, &, & hopefully even make some improvements on a system that we've got now. So again, I just caution us, don't make this personal. Let's um, um you know, do it for betterment of the city. Tku. DM: Tku, DA. q/c?
JW: I'd like to hear PP's explanation, does he need this or not. Does he agree with what he's heard so far? Nobody's let him speak tonight. (waiting for response) DM: Do you care to make a comment; it's totally up to you. PP: No, sir, I don't think I need to make a comment. DM: We've got a motion for 30% PP's time for the next 2 months to be used for training. (Voice vote & roll call: Yes: RH, DA, RS, RC, BL. No: TB & JW.) Motion passes by vote of 5 to 2. Motion to adjourn will be in order. Moved by JW, 2nd BL.. - vote & mtg. adjourned. (8pm)