Notes: RC's TIF Hearing Minutes, alias EM's TIF Hearing Summary, & Bill # 1681, Ord # 1556; Speakers: Ron McCabe, Sr., John Beard, Dennis (Freeze - spelling?); county possibly putting in apartment complex; etc.
5/6/02 BOA - Section 1 of 9
DM calls mtg to order & PP takes roll. Present: RH, TB, DA, RS, JW, RC, BL. (Also DM, EM & PP). RH leads Pledge of Allegiance. DM: Any additions to agenda? - RH & TB, no. - DA: Just one item & hopefully it will be placed into FW&M Cmte, & that would be compensation for the local levee project mgr & I'm asking that that be placed in Leg Cmte for budget purposes. DM: I'll go ahead & place that, by exec order, in FW&M. RS: I'd like to ask for exec session for possible litigation. DM: Ald JW. JW: Yes, YH, I just have a small list to ask the clerk when it comes time for his report.
RC: Yes, YH, I've got about 6 things here. I've kind of been waitin' for _______________________ . I'd like to talk about Crescent Valley ______ stormwater; the St. Louis Municipal League, or both of 'em actually; about some signs needed on Sorlee; a stormwater situation for Mr. Ferguson, I'll explain that when I get to it. I'd like to ask that we discuss our agenda & talk about maybe adding an old business so we can do some follow-up purposes. I'll explain in time. & I'd like to, if YH is considering uh, any, any appointmts tonight, maybe ___________________________ __________________________________________________________ . & the last thing would be, I'd like to have the candidate certification put in Legislative, & I'll be brief on those that I can, YH. DM: Would you like the candidate certification placed by executive order - RC: Actually, just let's talk about it a minute, make sure everybody's comfortable. I'm not, I'm not _________________. BL: YH, I just need a short exec, possible short exec sess for personnel, end of mtg.
DM: I ask for motion of approval of agenda as amended. (motioned, 2nd, voted, approved) Minutes of the mtg of 4/15/02. This will be the short, first, we'll do both mtgs, er _________ short mtg & certification, then we'll do the regular mtg. DA: move approval of both 4/15 Bd Ald Mtg mins. DM: ______sec, I'd like to have a comment. (someone 2nds) It wasn't clear in there that originally I appointed Miss Cassie Whitteaker to be the court clerk. In other words, the motion & I think it was withdrawn. I don't know if that was put in a cmte. This cmte, I didn't want to make _______________ _____________________ clarification of the mins. DA: YH, I, I recall that it was not placed in cmte. DM: Not placed in a cmte. Alright. I thought, I remembered it being mentioned, but I didn't know if it was actually _________ placed. So I apologize for not ______ with that, are there any uh changes to the mins? All in favor of the mins as written? (some or all aye & then someone coughs)
Mins of special mtg on 4/17. DA: Move approval. JW: Second for discussion, YH. Who took these mins & why didn't they sign the bottom of them? DM: Clerk Mr. Pillow would've taken them. I'm not sure why they weren't signed. I gotta admit I didn't notice that either. I apologize. Updated one has been signed _____________. Any other motion or changes or mins? All in favor of the mins as _________________ with Mr. Pillow's name on it? All in favor, say aye (some or all do). Those opposed? (none heard) Are there any licenses or permits, Mr. Pillow? PP: No, sir. RC: YH, there are several other mins. (stage people mumbling) DM: Based on advice of Mr Martin, City Counsel, 4/25, since there was not a forum, so it was not official mtg, so it'll just be for recommendation. 4/29 mins, is there a motion for approval of those mins? RS: Move approval. DA: 2nd. DM: Any comments or additions? (none heard) All in favor, signify by saying aye. (some or all do) All opposed? (none heard) Finance Way, I guess we'll skip the cmte reports _____________ .
5/6/02 BOA - Section 2 of 9
Under old business, ordinances, Bill 1681, an ordinance approving an Amended Redevelopment Plan for the City of VP, MO levee & infrastructure projected, project approving changes thereto & affirming related findings. Was this ord properly posted, Mr. Pillow? PP: This is one that hadn't been approved yet. We haven't signed an ordinance to reject it. Yes, sir, it was posted. DM: Is there a motion for approval of Bill #1681? (someone moved approval & DA 2nd). Ord #1556. JW: Were the mins already passed that this action came from through that mtg? I don't remember ever seeing those mins. Oh, I'm gettin' 'em now?
EM: I think there were some minutes that were prepared by the prior clerk & we couldn't find those. These are the same. I, I apologize. It's a, it's a different body. DM: Since this other, the mins are from a different body, Mr. Martin's informed me, I guess we can go ahead & vote on this ord that's in the packet here tonight, as it is on the agenda.
EM: Yeah, that body actually communicates to this body by resolution, & um the, the, there is a resolution in the back that was appended to the ord that passed, 7 zero. I've gotta get the acting chairman to sign it. She does have a signed copy. I've seen it around some ____________. DM: Are there any comments on the ord itself then about the Tax Increment Financing ____?
JW: YH, I don't remember RC taking these mins. Did RC take these mins? EM: Absolutely. I, I asked him to & uh, he submitted them. JW: I don't think he was nominated as sec"y that night, but he's not even on the Cmsn, so I don't know how RC could submit them. EM: I'm not sure if anybody was acting as sec'y of the mtg. I asked him to do it, because I was trying to do it ______. JW: Well, if Russ said that's what he did, that's what he did.
DH: Anything else JW? JW: No thanks. DM: Any other cmts on the ord? DA: YH, just a question as far as procedure. Did we read this ordinance caption only, first reading, just as a procedure? Could we do that? DM: I read the heading. DA: That's good. DM: I don't know if you want me to read the entire ______ as posted. DA: No, no, he did, okay, I'm, I'm sorry. DM: I'm glad you're keeping me honest here. Any other q/c? (none heard) All in favor, (stage people mumbling) sorry I didn't, okay, motion to approve the uh Bill #1681, Ord 1556. DA: so move. RC: 2nd. DM: Motion by DA, 2nd by RC. Any other q/c? All in favor of the ord, signify by saying aye. (some or all do) All opposed by saying nay. (none heard) Passed 7 - nothing. I'd like for the court clerk to go ahead & do the 2nd reading tonight & make a motion for the 2nd reading of Bill 1681. DA: I move to have the 2nd reading of Bill 1681, proposed ord 1556 on 2nd & final reading. DM: 2nd? RC: So move. DM: RC 2nd. Any q/c on the 2nd reading? Mr. Pillow, roll call vote please. I'll read the caption again ________. Bill #1681, Ord #1556, an ord approving an Amended Redevelopment Plan for the City of VP, MO, levee & infrastructure project, approving changes thereto & affirming related findings. Any further q/c? Mr. Pillow, roll call vote please. - Yes: RH, TB, RS, DA, JW, RC, BL. DM: Bill passed 7 to nothing. Tku, Bd.
I apologize for skipping over the speaker cards earlier, getting the agenda & various things. I'd like to go back & recoup that now. First speaker card I've got is Ronald McCabe, Sr. Comments please, sir? Mr.M (resoundingly): I'm not much of a speaker but I want to talk to the ald we got up here representing, supposed to be representing the City of VP & the people of VP. (AP: Excuse me, who's the speaker? Could he identify himself please.) My name is Ronald McCabe & before I get started, I'd like to say this doesn't include the mayor, or Mr. Whitteaker, or Mr. Pillows or Mr. Bolte. I feel like these guys, when they're up here, passing their agendas or whatever, or proposing, or whatever, they do with an open mind. It seems like the rest of you's are having a little clique up here. There's been too much chaos going on up here at the city hall for years & we all know it, & everybody says there's a little clique up here. & I think it's a shame the way you're representing the City of VP & wasting their money.
You got rid of a good city clerk that knew her job & did it well. You hired a man, no, no, no disrespect, to do her job, that had no experience & now you want the taxpayers to give him money to teach him his job. Seems to me like that's wasting city money, when you had a person up here who done a fantastic job.
This man, the mayor, is trying to do right by the citizens, ___ from this town. He's the ald that I went to whenever I had a problem & he was in a whole different ward. I couldn't get an ald to do something for me. I think it's a shame the way you people are operating this city. It's a disgrace. That's all I got to say, but I can leave here with a clear conscience, because I can honestly say I only voted for one man up here & that's Mr. Dan Michel for mayor. I didn't vote for them two that's in my ward. So I can go home with a clear conscience _______. (A few ald & EM looked only, or mostly at their papers while Mr. McCabe spoke.) DM: Tku, Mr. McCabe.
Next, Mr. Johnny Beard. State your name for the audience please. - Mr Beard: My name is John Beard & I live in the south ward. What I'm gonna complain about, about 916 or 96, I believe it's St. Louis Ave. A company moved in down there & they've got trailers parked outside. We have outside storage. They've got all kind of garbage packed up beside their bldg. They've got a garbage container sitting there that's completely runnin' clean over. They've got stuff stacked alongside of it, broken windown & everything else. I don't know when they started letting people do this again.
DM: Mr. Boggs, have you noted any of these items or was it 916? Mr.B: 96, 906, St. Louis Ave. And then there's another business right beside of it, it's got trucks parked. When you pull up, you have to go clean out in the street before you can see if anything's coming. & this has been complained about several times & they're still parking their trucks the same place. DM: Is this all at 906 St.Louis Ave, sir? Mr.B: Between 9th & 10th block, 900 block. And the man behind me, when he put his bldg in, it's in his contract, that he was supposed to ______________. I complained to Jim. Jim said the man's gonna fix it. It's been what, 5 or 6 wks ago, or more than that & he's never done anything. ____________________ over the weekend, the water comes up, my sump pump runs out all night & I mean there's no sense in it. Looks like they'd get down & fix it right, or do something about it. _______ the levee up there. He was supposed to pave his lot & everything & he didn't pave it. It's in the mins, he was supposed to have it paved within a yr; it's been 3 or 4 yrs & no one's ever done anything. I mean are we gonna do something or just let people come up & do whatever they want to do? DM: What's the address of the prop behind you, sir? We'll have Mr. Boggs pull up the ord. Mr.B: 936, no 939 Benton, I believe it is. On Leonard, what is it? JB: Vest, John. Mr.B: Vest Ave, he pulled it, he knows what I'm talking about. It's all in there. That's all I have to say. DM: Tku, Mr. Beard.
Next is Mr. Dennis Freeze(spelling?). MrF: My name is Dennis Freeze. I live in the south ward. It seems to me like there's a lot of favoritism going on. I've had a problem with the city writing me up on certain things, for like a stove sittin' in my driveway or something like that there. But then I go around & look at hundreds of yards out here that's got stacks of wood, mattresses, stuff like that there & that never gets done to them either. I had an incident where one of the city workers were down there cleaning up some over-spilled concrete, knocked over my fence. I called up here to confront 'em with it & they more-or-less called my wife a liar about it. We got it all on video & everything. I've showed the video to a couple people & I've even got neighbors & that, that witnessed it, but nothing's ever been done over that either. And I'd just like to see something get done. If you're gonna write one person up, they need to write everybody up, rather than picking on one person over it.
DM: I'd just like to add, I met with Mr. Freeze last week & he showed me a video tape which does show a number of properties in the area that need to have areas cleaned up. So I hope they have the big trash this week. We'll see some improvement & we'll continue to work with Mr. Boggs back there to _______. JW: I would hope the city will go down & replace his damaged fence also. I guess maybe you've already taken care of that. DM: I mean I have looked at it. I haven't actually , is that the form of a motion & I'll - JW: I'll move in that direction. (someone 2nds) DM: q/c? (exchange tapes - city's official mins show that the motion carried, 7 yes, 0 no.)
DM: Resolution before the Tax Increment Financing Cmsn of City of VP, MO. This resolution is passed by the TIF Cmte; it's in here for back-up, I guess back-up before the ordinance itself is passed.
5/6/02 BOA - Section 3 of 9
Next is resolution of the Bd Ald re initiation of Pub Works projects sponsored by RC. Motion for approval. RC: So moved, YH. DA: 2nd. JW: Discussion YH. I don't know where RC, it says sponsored by RC up there, but it says it came from EM's office. I want to know who's authorizing Eric Martin to draw all these up? I thought the Bd had to approve these things before - can any ald call up Eric & say I want to sponsor an ordinance about pink houses? If I wanted to & he's gotta do it?
DM: I would think proper direction would be for the bd to pass the motion to go ahead & have the motion or resolution draw up or put it in a cmte. Have the cmte pass & come back to the bd. We're spending city atty time for something that doesn't pass, it would be more prudent of the atty's fees. I guess we kind of wiggle back & forth a little bit on whether one person can go to Mr. Martin or whether they should go to the bd first.
JW: Like I said before, I personally think this is just a scheme to keep the mayor from getting anything done in the city. That just seems ridiculous that if there's something you want to do in Pub Works & you gotta come to the cmte, to do something. I don't know, maybe I'm misunderstanding RC's intentions here, but I think he's trying to tie the mayor up so he can't do anything. DM: It's my understanding, a resolution is more a wish of the bd than an actual legal background cite. For instance, if I want to overlay a particular street, I guess I'd bring it up with the bd or cmte first, but if it's something that needs to be done for the town, I'll go ahead & do it & then relay it to the bd. I don't want anybody to think I'm pulling a fast one on somebody or doing something underhanded.
TB: Is there like a monetary limit you know, that you can do on your own before coming before the bd? DM: There's a limit of $2000. I don't know if, Mr. Martin, is that a wk, or mo, or I'm not sure ____ $2000 that the mayor is allowed? EM: I think that was per project. RH: I'd like to see what the city atty says about this. EM: I, I mean as - RH: or should we check with the Municipal League? 'cause that's what we do normally, talk to the Municipal League.
EM: A, a, as a general proposition, a resolution is, is um a statement of intent by the BOA on a procedure that they want to follow. I mean as far as I know, this is the policy of the city anyway. It's pretty well embodied in this resolution. What I gather is that the bd is making it clear that they want to see that policy followed thru. RH: My next question is that, say the mayor calls, say the Chairman of Pub Works Cmte, for a project for something considered small or say over so much money or - DM: Like I was saying earlier, the $2000 limit is what I would try to follow, but if it's a little bit less ____, but I don't want to push right up to the penny thing $2000 or something there, or work with the bd ____ $2000, 3 or 4 times ____ sizeable amt, but obviously anything over the $2000, I would bring up the Pub Works Cmte & after it's approved at that level, bring it back to the bd. If it's approved there, then go ahead & put it on the list for the ____. As Mr. Martin pointed out, I think we've generally followed this procedure anyway. I don't think we, as I recall, no project where we went out & paved a street, just w/o any bd say so at first, but just wrap up loose ends.
RH: What I'm going back to, when I was the chairman of Pub Works, the mayor would always contact me & ask me ________ work together. RS: I reckon we can. I really don't think we, it's been a problem. _____________ DM: Any other q/c? BL: ____ up & said that I understand on some really big projects, he would just pass it on down the line. The mayor would call him & a few times, he'd actually call me & let me know what was going on because I also sat on that cmte. But um, not only ______________________ ____________ was something small, I wouldn't have a problem with that _________________________ . DA: Yes, YH, um first, a, again, if I may answer the question. I think the fact that we are lacking a procedure on how we can access the city atty, we probably need to do that after this resolution to be a law. I'll make a motion that we place it in Leg Cmte, um, to set a procedure.
Um again, I think we're all working for the right purpose. We need to know what the procedure on how to reach the city atty is & I don't think we necessarily intended that the mayor be the only one um, with that accessibility to the city atty, uh that we are paying bills for. Um & again, I, I hope that the purpose of this particular um resolution is allow the ald to stay informed of what's going on in their own ward. & I don't believe this was um directed at Mayor Michel. Um I can certainly tell you when I was mayor & under former mayors, there were times that I'd probably start a project that _______ ald's ward & they were surprised by it & _________ ____________. I think it's just that process of um keeping everybody informed & I, I, I hope the sponsor of that does intend. DM: Tku, DA.
TB: Could this include such things as just even filling potholes or something like that _____ a monetary year _____ send Jim out & the crew to fill potholes around town. _____.
DM: I did meet with JM a couple wks ago as, primarily in Ward One, just to kind of get started. Not trying to slight the other 3 wards, but ________ ___________________ potential for a car tire, or a person falling or a bicycle, or such things as that. So smaller projects, I'd say go ahead & try to work with JM. I'd love to get him going & working with the project site _______ ________ home last wk, in the 600 block of Leonard where the ditch along the side of her prop & she's concerned that kids like to Evil Kineval-style ride their bikes across there. So if I want to add that to the overall project of the city, it could be one thing here that can affect ______ water. One way or another, the water pumped down thru here, water flows on down below. So that's one way. I'd like to have that put in Pub Works Cmte for review of the overall stormwater review. _____ water fairly flat but it went into this ward to the other, so the water just sits in there, doesn't flow out the next, mosquito problem or other home hazards or that sort of thing. So any project such as that, would allow you to bring back to the Pub Works Cmte anyway. I guess that would be the spirit of this resolution here. But the smaller project, if there's a pothole in the middle of the st. that was 50 or $100, I hope I could throw it & have the Pub Works Cmte, er not Pub Works Cmte, but the street crew go out & repair that hole. Get something done right away rather than potential for a car hitting it & having an accident & having the city liable.
TB: I understand what DA is saying, but also, I'd hate to see _______ such things as that. DA: Again, YH, if I could 2nd time around, I think that the mayor should, if somebody has to be responsible for your um, your, the on-going maintenance & upkeep, I guess what I would want to do is not see a bunch of off site, off st. parking on both types of violations starting occurring without um you know the Bd's knowledge. So again, my intent ________ for supporting this will not be to _________ the daily operation & the on-going maintenance that has to happen. DM: Tku, DA. Any other q/c?
JW: One, YH, is your procedure gonna be that the individual ald cannot go into the shop back there & dictate to Jim, items they want done. Because I think the last couple administrations, that's kind of the way it was. You know, you run it thru the process of the bd & the mayor, & individual alders can't micro-manage that shop out there because I think that would just create - DM: I think as you suggested, JW, several bosses would bring more confusion. ___________________ either bring back to the bd, or at a cmte level, or work with, or welcome to meet with me after a _____ a day, come into the office, or leave a note out here with them, for bringing up projects, or citizens for that matter, bring things up as well, but be able to say certain projects. Say, that was quite an eye-opening experience, looking at Mr. Freeze's tape last week, all the things around town & I would hope they would start getting those knocked out. It's not going to be a couple days, because it took more than a couple days to get these problems here, but if we can continue to show improvemt, I guess, a few projects get done, other people see that work's being done & they'll all kind of be working in town together here to try to clean things up. So hopefully, in the spirit of cooperation, you will work with the bd here & let Mr. McMullen & his crew do the job, Mr. Boggs do his job, & hopefully the city will do their job. Any other ques?
RH: Does this include all wards? DM: yes. RH: My other ques is, I mean maybe we should throw this in the cmte, but I know for sure that the st crew presence goes out on Vance & Hanna Rd & does things on ROW's which belongs to I guess St. Louis County, or it's kind of debatable. But yet I have my hands tied on what I call 141, or old 141. It's like we can't do nothing up there for some reason, but we can go out there & do something on - are we gonna get treated the same, country road or - DM: __________ work with JM. Make it consistent. If it's county or a state rd, have those vicinities work on cleaning their areas up. Talk to JB about having Union Pacific RR Co to clean up trash off areas. I'll probably get with him on the county & state as well as __________. Again, I'm not slighting anyone. Trying to say be fair. If it's a city st, we'll clean the ROW areas. County, we'll ___ _____ hopefully we can keep an open relationship with each the county & the state to clean up their particular areas.
RH: What brings it up is, I heard a tree fell on a car or something, a while back, on Vance or Hanna or Sulphur. Does that sound right? DM: I believe it was Hanna. JM: It was Hanna Rd, RH. RH: What was we doin' up there, cuttin' trees? JM: Hanna Rd is a city rd. DM: Vance is a county road. JM: _____small section of Hanna Rd that the city owns & maintains. DM: Right. RH: How much right-of-way is there? JM: I couldn't answer that w/o _________. The reason why we were out there was _______________ _________________________. RH: Both sides are ________? JM & DM: both sides of Hanna. DM: Tku RH. - (vote & roll call on resolution) Yes: RH, DA, RS, RC, BL. No: TB & JW. - DM: Resolution passes by 5 to 2 vote.
Next is mayor's report. Gil DeNormandie has asked permission. He wants to use Leonard Park & is going to be serving beer there, so we need bd approval. I'd appreciate motion in favor of Mr. DeNormandie being allowed to have beer at Leonard Park 5/18. (someone moves) DA: 2nd with ques. Is this for a, a - DM: He says a private family & friends. DA: I didn't realize you needed permission for that. DM: Any other q/c? (vote & roll call) PP: Motion for liquor in the park. - Yes: TB, DA, RS, JW, RC, BL. No: RH. DM: Motion passes.
5/6/02 BOA - Section 4 of 9
There was a letter in the paper I guess came from, or the packet rather, from St. L County. Bridge on Quinette Rd bridge has become pretty dilapidated. $50,000 Mr. Omback was signed division St. L County Hiway Traffic Dept said they wanted to look at splitting the cost between the city & St L County. In this case, it was too dilapidated to be repaired. The underneath structure also needs to be removed, so it could be $25,000 each. If the Bd has a wish to, anything on this tonight or put into Pub Works Cmte, or - JW: Move to place in Pub Works.
DA: Again, it sounds like the bridge needs to be tore down. Would it be a more appropriate place then to be in FM&W, uh for consideration (someone coughs) I don't know what we could do with it in Pub Works. JW: Pub Works could find out & really justify if needed. I don't think $25,000 or 50 is gonna build a new bridge, so it doesn't sound like they're replacing the bridge, but I mean - DM: Tearing it down is what the county is planning to do now. It's up behind the Mobil gas station ________________________ dead end _____________________. RS: Does the city own the bridge, or is that half county?
DM: According to the letter, they're saying it's joint between city & county. RS: So that road is half county & half VP? DM: That's what I'm gathering from this letter here. That's one thing we can look at in cmte & see - EM: Our city limits I think go to Gland Glaize Creek & probably to the middle of it & I guess what they're saying is - cut off by RS: & we own half the bridge, but we really own the road going to it? They probably own the other side of the bridge & we own this side of the bridge. So probably what they're saying is half the bridge is ours & half is theirs'.
EM: Evidently the only purpose of that road would be to serve an apartment complex that they've approved, according to paragraph 1 here from what I can gather. RS: _____________________. Do we need this bridge? I don't think there's anything back there. EM: Evidently the county is going to put an apartment in there. RS: Looks to me like they want us to pay half so they can have the bridge. DM: removing it - EM: Let's see there's no residences between the bridge & ____ . We're requiring the proposed apartment development on the east side of Grand Glaize Creek, south of Big Bend. East side of Grand Glaize Creek, would be toward the city, opposite side, & so of Big Bend. That's right there. RS: That's the big field, the lot, they got next to the automotive. EM: Yeah. RS: Seems to me like they want us to help 'em (someone coughs) the bridge. Do they want us to tear it down or do they want us to help 'em fix it? $25,000 apiece is a lot of money just to tear the bridge down. EM: I guess they'll access them off of Big Bend. DM: That's what I thought too, come off Big Bend & ________________ EM: Yeah, maybe we need to take a look at it. DM: I think we'll have Mr.Martin look at this before we _________________ Pub Works Cmte look at it. RS: I'd like to know just what's going on & that we have the right info __________.
DM: Mr. Martin will look into this & we'll _________ determination from this. Meanwhile does the Pub Works Cmte still want to review this or just, what's the bd's wish? RS: YH, Since I'm chairman, I'd like to see the city atty find the findings & then let's look into it when we come back. DM: So leave it in cmte & if we find something the cmte doesn't really need to do, then we'll just take _________. Alright. So like I said, we'll go ahead & put it in cmte for now, then based on what Mr. Martin finds, we'll either cmte review it or just bring it out of cmte report & the bd can vote on this. Any other q/c on the motion to put this in cmte? - (they vote, none opposed)
On the next appointmts, before I get into those, Mrs. Brust asked that I read her letter in here. Mrs. Joyce Brust, who I thought had done a good job working for us as the Parks Coordinator. "Dear Dan, uh Mayor Dan Michel & bd ald: It is with great distress that I am submitting my letter of resignation as Treasurer & Parks Coordinator of City VP. I have enjoyed working with the Parks Dept & the citizens of VP. Since the election of the new bd of ald, I feel it would be in the best interest of the taxpayers of VP, if I step down at this time. I would like this to be read aloud at the next Bd Mtg. Sincerely, Joyce L. Brust."
The first appointemt I'd like to make is for court clerk, Cassie Whitteaker. Is there a motion for approval on this? TB: Motion. RH: 2nd. DM: q/c? JW: YH, I will abstain from voting on this issue. DA: YH, this point & comment, I understand that she does a fantastic job & performs her duties well. DM: Tku, DA. (Cassie Whitteaker is voted to be court clerk, 6 favor, 1 abstain)
Next, as Treasurer, Mrs Terry Helton has agreed to take on the job as Treasurer, so I'm hereby appointing her as Treasurer, so I'd like a motion of approval. (motioned & 2nd) q/c? RH: I'll be abstaining. DM: All in favor of Mrs. Helton as the Treasurer, signify by saying aye. (some or all do) All opposed? (none heard)
One thing I forgot to mention last time in addition to um the liason between the city & the Army COE, Mr. Dave Cusack, will be retained as the Emerg Mgmt Coordinator. I think he's done a fine job in both areas. I appreciate having you representing us for the city.
5/6/02 BOA - Section 5 of 9
And for Parks Coordinator, I'd like to go ahead & nominate Mr.Gil DeNormandie as our Parks Coordinator. He's done a fine job in the past yr as Chairman of Parks & he's also got some expertise he brings into the Parks Dept, working with St.L County Parks. I'd appreciate a motion for Mr. DeNormandie. (someone motions)
RS: 2nds for discussion. Mr. DeNormandie asked me about this & I really don't think I have a problem supporting him. Uh I think he does a pretty good job chairing that position. __________________. My biggest concern was talking & I, & I think I kind of spoke it out ____________. You know, how, how many hrs is he gonna be able to give to this posi, position with him having a full time job? I'd like to see someone that could not just work one hr a day. I really don't think that our parks could be run on one hr a day. I'd like to see a person, myself, or a budget put together to pay a full time person for that position. Um maybe Gil would be good temporarily, you know, till we can find someone, or until the budget & I would support putting him in there till the budget, till we can budget for someone & maybe we can find somebody.
DA: Tku, RS. Any other q/c? DA: Yes,YH, only again I, I kind of share the views of RS, & I hope that um, as part of the um budget, especially that would consider um an administrative type of position. DM: Tku, DA. That's one thing I guess, or double when you look at it, as you review the budget _________________________________ they have done a good job & he's working with it, so we had a Valley Days thing last wk & hopefully we can all pull together. Valley Days & we had an administrative person in the Parks started looking at that in conjunction with the Parks Coordinator. Any other q/c?
RS: Second time around, YH, is Mr. DeNormandie here? DM: apparently not. RS: Well, I'd like to have had seen him here because I'd like to know how many hrs he's gonna put in here. I'd hate to say I support him, but yet him not be able to put any hrs or any time in here. It seems like any function we've had in the past, I know he's been at as many parks mtgs as he can, but seems like every time I turned around, I heard him you know, saying hey I'm sorry I couldn't be at Earth Day or I couldn't be here or at just different events. It seems like he'd never been to any & here we have a fishing trip coming up on the 18th, & it seems like he's going to be at Leonard Park for a family function. I mean it just seems like every time something comes up, he's got a reason for, I don't know if it's his job. I'd like to really know; I'd hate to put someone in. I'd appreciate if you'd hold this over till Mr. DeNormandie could come on our next mtg day & maybe we could talk to him.
DM: Well, not speaking on his behalf necessarily, but I believe the family function is in the afternoon where he'd be able to make the fishing derby in the morning. And the way the original position, I was on Parks when I first moved into town here back in 1994, that my wife later was on Parks as well, where the Parks Coordr more worked with the functions of the holiday, or such as Halloween, Christmas, that sort of thing, Fishing Derby. Then day-to-day parks was taken up or controlled by the people in the office. I've talked with Roxanne Ruppel & Cassie Whitteaker be able to coordinate during the day with people that want to reserve a park or pick up the kenuts or things & the other Parks Coordr job is handling getting materials bought for the events _____. RS: Knowing ____, YH, I really think that Mr. DeNormandie would do a fine job ____. He's a hard worker when he's there. I just would like to know how long he's gonna be there before I go ahead & put him in that position.
DM: I guess with Valley Days coming up & _____ Fishing Derby coming up on the 18th, very close, I'd appreciate go ahead approving him now & then find someone, if he cannot put the hrs in & we could work with getting a different coordinator. RS: If it's alright with the motion-maker, can we make this a temporary position until the new budget, instead of from yr to yr? Let's just see how it works out. DM: $400 a month is one of the smaller payments. It more covers their expenses driving, going to pick up things & buying small incidental materials, construction paper & things like that, to set it up. So hopefully I can say that keep trying to get things moving quickly as we can. So I'm on, this is my second mtg here as the new mayor. I hoped we could go ahead & get him in at this time, & say after Valley Days, if we feel like we're not getting - RS: So we're saying we're gonna put him in the position until after Valley Days or - DM: Valley Days is #1 priority, but if it looks like we're in need of a major change, we could sit down with Mr. DeNormandie & say we're not getting hrs other than -
RS: I just wish he would've been here. He could at least tell us how many hrs a day he was gonna to put in, if it was going to be 5 mins or 3 hrs. I really don't like seeing someone trying to run our parks at night. It seems like, you know, when I come by here before, the city hall should've been closed & I seen people you know in the city hall. I'd like to see it on a daily basis, the Parks Coordr to be able to be here at least 2 to 3 hrs a day. I think I'd like to withdraw my 2nd.
JW: I second that motion, out of respect to you, YH. I support a full-time personnel like RS is talking about, but I think we're probably talking, to get the type of personnel that we need, it's going to be $50,000 to $60,000 a yr. for a full time qualified person for this job. This small amt we're paying Gil is still gonna be needed to up till past July. I mean this is giving this guy a complete run of the parks. & we made some positions secretarial & some other duties I think down here that you know, I guess have been helpful, but you can't, I don't think you can afford to go too much longer w/o putting somebody in this position, whether it's part-time, full-time, whatever. So I'm gonna support puttin' Gil in here tonight & hope that he can arrange his schedule. We all have to work to make a living, you know, some people can dedicate more time than others to certain things. I'm just hoping when we get to the position, that he'll be able to take care of what duties need to be taken care of with the cooperation of the mayor's secretary & the other girls upstairs.
DM: That's what I was referring to earlier, saying, I think there's a big difference between the Parks Coordr setting up the various events, such as working with Valley Days & the Fishing Derby & Christmas & other events there. & we've already got a full-time Parks Administrator. I think that would be, they could coordinate in conjunction, but not necessarily exclusive of each other. So I'd like to go ahead & have this approved at this time if we could & then I guess, later on in the fall, if we don't feel we have the money for it, but I'd like to put him in for the yr at $400 & I think it's slightly over 400. I forget the exact amt, but go ahead & get this in place for now & ___________.
RH: You know, Gil's a good man. Personally, I've got nothing against him. He's a good man, but I was thinking more like you know it's hard, uh somebody, retired, you know, spend a few hrs & there are people around. DM: Judy Schrader who used to work on this in the past, & her husband has recently retired & they're gonna be traveling around the country. It was gonna be a little bit more expanded, than strictly as a Parks Coordr working during the wk, especially over the summer, setting up children's events during, not just for sport, but there's a lot of other interests that some of the children have other than sports, some crafts, perhaps games, just different events like that so they won't sit at home & just watch TV. I hope they could come outside & get some fresh air. She was all in favor of that had she been here, she would've been willing to take that on.
RH: YH, there's a man, you know, that comes to most of the mtgs down here; he's retired. He's already sittin' right out there in the crowd. I haven't even talked to the man about it, but there's a perfect example. He's here at all the mtgs. There are several people around here that comes to mtgs, are interested & I think that's the kind of person we need. DM: Any other q/c?
RS: YH, I just can't support someone that has a full-time job, trying to run our Parks. I mean we're giving someone $400 a month, which isn't a lot of money, but to come down here & spend 45 mins or an hour after their job. I mean, you just can't keep puttin' someone like that in there. I mean & think that they're gonna have good functions & events. I think I would support him temporarily till we found someone for that position if you can't give us (someone coughs). DM: I'd just like to remind, I guess most of the audience, of the fact that all the ald up here have a full-time job & plus $400 a month. I think we spend more than an hour up here, so -
RS: Excuse me, YH, we are here in the evening from 7:30 till the end of the mtg. We're talking something that needs to be done on a daily basis during business working hours which is till 4:30. That's what I'm pointin' at. I just think we can conduct ourself & get someone who could be here & spend a little more time. I really like Gil. I think if Gil could come in here & say he could spend 2, 3 hrs that'd be fine. DM: The Parks Coordr, in the past when I served on Parks & other people I've talked to also have been parks representative liaison to the Parks Cmte from the bd, someone who works more in the evenings, that's when a lotta the other people who volunteer their time, work on Parks, set up the events that somebody agreed to take on. Something like the Fishing Derby for instance, getting supplies together, or Halloween time, they're being charged with costumes & a lot of that work was done in the evenings. Then during the day the events were set up thru JM, ________________________. I think the Parks Coordr was supposed to be somebody who goes out & actually puts a new bench up in a park, or coordinates that thru the cmte ____________ .
DA: YH, I haven't spoke yet, if I may. Um again, I certainly understand that _________ got Valley Days & a lot of um items coming up very shortly & you bein' a, a, you know, have a full-time position, um it's hard ta to run the city completely by yourself. Um RH made a suggestion a few moments ago & we still, I think at this time, have the Assistant Parks Dir position open. I was wondering if the mayor would be interested in, after this mtg, um talking with this gentleman, um, basically um to see if he would be interested in you know it, & if there is, very shortly call another mtg, to um appoint that person in one of those those positions during the day, um day or as RS is um requesting & asking. Again, I think there's a position open that could be a couple hrs a day.
DM: Looking at the budget & the salary ord, I did not find an actual Parks Assistant including the secretary which it's $400 a month is the only thing I could find in there under Parks, is why again, I know Mrs. ah Mrs. Praechter was getting $200 a month for a while, but in attempting to fill the position at this time, there was a Norma Taylor who was doing the job as secretary for the Parks, who's taking mins at the Parks mtgs & assisting on weekends when we do the Parks mtgs for events, that sort of thing there. At no pay to the city, she volunteered her time because she had enough time to care about the events going on here in town. So we could input that in the budget this summer since we're rapidly approaching July 1st for a new fiscal yr, put money in at that assistant position, or a full-time Parks Director at 30 or 40,000 or even higher, whatever we deem necessary to get that person in there.
DA: Again, I, to help us along with this selection & to fill this position, I a guess I ask again was there not an ordinance passed um for an Assistant um Parks Coordr for I think it was $200 a month? DM: I didn't see it, but I'm not saying it's not there. I'll review, I'll certainly be happy to look at it again & & if we can get together after the mtg or sometime - cut off by DA: I'm quite certain that there is. DM: But if it's not there, there's nothing says we can't add it in the next yr or so. DA: But again, I'll be asking the mayor again if we approve this appointment, if he would not meet with this gentleman very shortly & review that ordinance, & make sure that's valid. If it's not here in ordinance, then we can want to give the daily. But I understand RS saying, we need somebody here on a daily basis in case Mr. DeNormandie cannot, um you know, be here during the - cut off by DM: I will look at that, yes, _______________ .
JW: YH, just a point of clarification, I was Finance Chairman & I know DA is missing a yr or 2. He had a gap in between service here & the previous mayor did away with that by uh budgeting. There was no money budgeted for that position that he's talkin' about. I think when he was the mayor, there was an ordinance that he supported & the bd did. But I think when the new mayor, Fred Palmer, come in, that was abolished by Adams. Now whether he'd just do away with the ord, I don't know anything about that, but he did away with it by budget. DM: Tku, JW. Any other q/c? All in favor of Mr. DeNormandie as Parks Coordinator, signify ... (vote & roll call) PP: all vote for Parks - Yes: TB, DA, JW No: RH, RS, RC, BL. DM: Motion Fails.
5/6/02 BOA - Section 6 of 9
RS: Point of Order. Motion to take a 3-min. recess. DM: What would that be for? RS: We need to get a new tape for the tape recorder. City Clerk is out of tapes. Somebody took one off the desk. DM: Ok, 3-min recess to get a new tape.
DM: Mtg back to order now that we got our new tape in place. A couple more things I've got under my report. There's a renewal came in for the VP's website & since it' under the bills, normally we don't pay till the 2nd bd mtg of the month, but it's due on the 18th. So if I could get approval, er a motion & 2nd if I could. It's $35 for the yr to keep our website up & running. (RS motions) Is there a 2nd? (none heard, but evidently there was.) Any q/c? All in favor, say aye. (some or all do) All opposed? (Just mumbling is heard. The city's official mins show that the motion carried, 7 yes, 0 no.)
Also, I was talking to some people earlier about overlay of Marshall. We've done part of it, looks pretty good. I'd like to put into the Pub Works Cmte to continue overlay from 3rd St down to 5th St. If I could get a motion to put it in Pub Works? DA: So move. RS: What I'd like to see, is I'd like to see us get an estimate of the cost of the overlayment of 3rd St to 10th St. Put it in Pub Works or maybe FW&M, if you're puttin' a new budget. DM: So do the estimate now, then put it in Pub Works? RS: Yeah, get an estimate, then we'll put it in Pub Works.
JW: YH, comment on that. Hopefully Pub Works 'cause I'm on that cmte, so I'll be following that up also, but I hope that they start all these new projects we're doing, it seems like we've got a major issue of stormwater. All this new asphalt over the same old streets, doesn't get rid of the water & everything alongside of it. If we don't put stormwater (someone coughs, can't hear) in, I'm not voting to spend any more money on this. DM: Tku, JW. Any other q/c? BL: On the first part of Marshall, that was done on a grant. Was there a matching grant or - first part of that overlay? DM: First part was CDBG, Cmty Dev. Block Grant money. BL: __________ ? EM: No, that that's straight money. BL: _________ DM: This we pave our, unless we come up with another grant, but as JW was saying, I think that's a good idea to get sewers in place, ______ to pave the st & then come back 6 mos later & tear it up, then the water's ____________________.
RS: YH, I support ______________ where, but at this time, I feel that our city's in a bad financial situation & I don't know that we can afford to dig up Marshall Rd & put sewer drains in it. I think it's in such bad shape now that a good temporary overlaymt will get us 2 or 3 yrs down the road. And maybe once we get some good money in here, we can see about putting a whole new rd in there with curb & guttering. TB: Yes, YH, I'm wanting to agree with JW. I don't know what money's in the budget. ______________. DM: Having Mrs. Price get the money together what's in Fund 17 which would cover projects such as this, but see how much money we're allocating for current projects & whatever money comes in thruout the yr, kind of up & down _______________ see what we can allocate next yr.
RH: My only ques was like maybe to the city atty. Since our population you know the new census is what I'm trying to say, how much more tax money do you expect to - EM: I calculated about a hundred & eighty some odd thousand $ to 210 - RH: ______________ . EM: & that doesn't include CDBG money, but that'll increase as well. It's been, CDBG has been averaging about 25 ____________.
DA: Um, I agree that we need to take a look at the stormwater & I would hope that with our Fund 17, if there's some bonding capability, maybe we can take a look at bonding the larger project to take care of that. In the meantime, some residents that live on that st, there's a lot of people come you know, thru Marshall to get to the um Sports Complex um & a lot of people in general, come down Marshall. We can't, I don't think it's right just to leave the residents there with a st that's virtually impassable _______________. So again, maybe this is a, you know, a temporary solution if (coughing) let's get the bid. Take a look at it & see if the funds are available. DM: I was just hoping that we don't transfer the problem with potholes in the st which are bad, ______ down that way, to flooding areas. So if it's a nice flat st, but it floods after a rain, we don't want to certainly add to that problem _____________ brings the st up & pushes more water out in the yards or ________. Perhaps Mr. Weis can start getting estimates. _________ what the cost of sewers would be or at least get a start on that so we don't have a levee built, then all this water retained on the inside of the levee because it rained & water on the outside (coughing) the river, so hopefully we can progress & have all the water flowing outside to the, tku DA. Any other q/c?
RS: Um I, I pretty much drive that st a lot & I know that a lot of them residents have been putting up with dust over there & if a little water's left on that st over there, I think it might control the dust. But I think _______ will probably agree with that (someone is like chuckling), I mean if you throw water on some dirt, you know, eventually it's not gonna be dust & there's some people over there that can't even breathe in the summer. You can't open the windows. They have to wash their car twice a day & something has to be done. You can't leave, not only that, if you drove down there, have you looked at some of the water holes that are sitting around? DM: I've looked at 'em. That's why I was recommending (coughing). RS: I don't think a 2-inch overlay is gonna make any difference. I really don't, so I appreciate you supporting at least _____.
RH: You know just to cut it short. I don't want to talk all night. Until they establish driveway approaches, all these industrial courts, it's all open, it's all flat, they drive wherever they want onto our streets. Until they all establish driveway approaches, you're wasting your time. Sorry, but that's just - DM: That's a good point. RH: They're higher than we are. If you make 'em, the larger ones, 3, 4, whatever they want, but it's all open & there's nothing you're gonna, it drains on out. Driveway approaches & make 'em put pipes under it, then we can do our part.
JW: I'd like to see the city try & get some cooperation with, some of those concrete companies ought to be paying taxes to VP because they're based in Maryland Hts & they're tearin' our street up down there & they're draggin' all that rock & gravel & dust & all RS's concerns about, out there in it. & I think we're either gonna have to send them a friendly letter or try to cooperate with them. Say hey, you know, we need some help on this st, especially the ones that aren't even paying taxes to the city. I think we need to investigate that as somebody mentioned before. Start collecting some of that revenue into the City of VP.
DM: That's a very good point. I'd definitely like to see some more revenue come in from businesses that tear up the streets, leave the dust & that. _________ pay tax dollars to other ____ communities. q/c? (none heard) . That's all I've got for the mayor's report.
Clerk's report, Mr. Pillow. PP: I haven't anything _____. JW: I just had a couple quick, easy ques for the clerk. He'll probably have to bring it back to the next mtg because I'm not sure he can answer them. I know he can't. General insurance right now is over budget by $11,129 on our last report. I was just wondering, what was causing that? And Pat, when do we get our sales tax, our utility gross receipts tax, when does that money come into the City VP? You can bring it back to the next mtg, unless you know now.
EM: I can answer. Sales tax comes in monthly, uh on some people, quarterly on others. Usually tho, the city gets monthly increments & then gross receipts, I think pretty well all the utilities pay quarterly on that. It's a pretty periodic thing _____. JW: Do you know what would be making our general insurance be going over budget so far? EM: Is that liability or uh - JW: No, I believe it's our health. ____________. EM: _____ health care probably. All that stuff has, has gone up dramatically in the last 2 yrs. Um, I'll, I'll talk to the clerk about it & see what - PP: I can answer that now. I'm having a mtg set up with Mike Kilker of Blue Cross Blue Shield. He's gonna come down & explain some things & that's one of the things we were talking about, cost prohibitive insurance. (exchange tapes)
DM: Bldg Inspector's Rept. JB: The only thing I have tonight, um I received a letter last mo from Mr. John Schmerold who owns Katy Computer, at 20 Meramec Sta Rd. He's requesting that we amend ord #1162, to include any permitted use. This is really nothing more than we did for 911 Forest & 800 Marshall Rd a couple mtgs ago. DM: Is there a motion for, I guess it changes from PDC to adding the commercial use. Is that what the intent is? JB: Right. It's currently zoned PDC, but the ordinance is written to where the only allowable uses are the auto repair shop & an appliance repair sales store & 3 residential apts. DM: I talked to him briefly last night. I believe he said the residential apts would be going away & become office use.
Mr.Schmerold: In some ways, is this appropriate for me - DM: Yes, step up to the podium, please & state your name. MrS: I'm John Schmerold. I own Katy Computer Systems. We've been in our location & we applied for all the proper permits, etc. back in 97. We've actually occupied our bldg since 1/97. Prior to that, we were across the street in Meramec Plaza. So 96 I guess, the last quarter of 96, we actually did a gut rehab of that bldg. I don't know if any of you remember the bldg., but in my estimate, it was a fire trap. There were 3 apts upstairs, 1 bathrm; it was one of those kinds of places. The bottom level had been an appliance repair store. Originally the bldg was designed as a pharmacy with the owner's house up above. So, apparently, when we were originally allowed to move in & given our occupancy permit & our bldg permits & all that, we replaced all the electrical system, etc.
The question didn't come up, but it turns out, & subsequent to that, people have been given occupancy permits to move in upstairs as office space. Subsequent to that, it has turned out that the original amendmt, or the original ordinance in 94 states that the prop was approved for retail use on the lower level by Able Appliance, I believe is what it was, & apts upstairs. So there's been some non-conformance all along & so we're simply asking that it get cleaned up to where the property can be used as it was when we did the gut rehab, so it can be used as it was without. Similarly there's some issues. There are 3 bldgs on this prop. As I understand it there's our bldg at 20, there's Economy Radiator & then there's... (tape screwed up for about 2 minutes) Mr.S: ... that bldg.
JW: YH, I don't have any problems with it. I'd personally feel better if BL's cmte would investigate it because I don't know enough about it to make a fair decision. He's naming off the other businesses that this supposedly happened to & all that. I don't know what, legally, he could run out of that place if he got his zoning changed. If he's not the prop owner, should he be the one down here requesting this? RS: You got a pretty nice business up there now. Can you tell me how many businesses are in this bldg? MrS: As of today, there is Katy Computer Systems. We have an insurance salesman that wants to open an insurance office in that bldg & another retail outlet that would like to locate in there as well.
RS: Okay, so you're talking, you've already got Katy Computer in there. You've got an insurance sales in there that I was aware of. Um & then you're talking about opening another retail up, besides the one that's going in there? Mr S: Yes, what's happened, when we originally moved in, we had 20 employees & the computer industry has changed quite a bit. I'm sure you've seen that between my store & Clarkson Rd on Manchester, 4 computer stores have closed. So our stores have become smaller. So we're not talking about any increase in the # of people or overall activity, but we are looking at subdividing it from what it was originally.
RS: My concern is encroaching on your neighbors. Do you know how many parking spots you're using now, if you got 3 businesses in there? Mr.S: We have 1 to 2 employees in our shop at a time. Each of the businesses you're looking at using approximately 3 spots on a consistent basis, with occasional traffic coming in. We're not like a grocery store where people come in. None of these are like a grocery store. So the long & short of it is, the # of cars that are parked at our location is down dramatically & we continue to be down dramatically from what we were talking about 4 yrs ago. RS: You're saying that the 3 businesses have about 3 vehicles apiece, which is 9. MrS: No, no all together. RS: What do you mean all together? The 3 businesses that are in Katy Computer bldg. I'm not talking about Economy or Sportsworld. MrS: No, no, I'm saying each bus. has 1 to 2 cars. RS: Okay, so let's say 2. That's 6 cars out of the 3. Then you're getting ready to open up a business, which is a flooring business, which would be like a store, which is like a grocery store. It would have customers continuously coming in. Mr S: That's #3. RS: Okay, so even that for a 3rd one. Let's say you got 4. Now my concern is, do you have enough parking spots. I guess the question would be for John. John, is there enough parking spots for this business to go in there?
JB: As the plan was originally submitted in '94, yes. As it stands right now, no. RS: Can you tell me what the difference is, John? JB: Um, there's some cars, um I don't know if you want to call them overflow, or customer cars or what have you from the adjacent business that would probably have to be moved to accommodate the parking. RS: Okay. YH, I'd like this bd, JW's idea & maybe send this to P&Z & have it looked at & see if it's even feasible for this gentleman to put this business in there. I know it meets the - DM: Are you making that in the form of a motion? RS: Yeah. If I can get a 2nd. DM: RS moved to put this in P&Z. Is there a 2nd? JW: I'll 2nd that. I was going into BL's cmte, Leg. If P&Z is willing to look at it, that's fine too. RS: That's fine with me. DM: Ok, P&Z. q/c?
DA: One question, again that um, I was going to support putting it into Leg. Cmte 'cause we've not gotten to take a look at uh you know city ord 1162. Uh, P&Z may be the um cmte to go to, but it's probably gonna take action of the bd & I'm not, I don't know enough about this particular issue to know where these go. P&Z's usually a longer process, where it may just require some simple legislation by this bd. Um, but I'm, I'm, I'm okay in either cmte I guess, but uh - DM: RS made the motion. Would you be willing, if the motion-maker & the 2nd agrees, to Leg? RS: Sure, Leg is fine. According to JW, that's where he - DM: Leg Cmte. q/c? DA, you still have the floor, I'm sorry.
DA: Again, I guess for the Leg. Cmte, if we could get a copy of that ord um to look at. Um & it would probably be a quicker process, & ____ go P&Z could go ________ . DM: _________ like I say, I like to businesses as long as they're working here with us, which you're obviously doing. DA: It's probably a fine bus., but again, we need a little more info um to go ahead & do this. But again, Leg. DM: q/c? All in favor of placing this is Leg. Cmte, signify by saying aye. (some or all do) Opposed? (none heard) DM: Leg. Cmte. Hopefully, sir, we'll get something back to you to you can get your business _________. JB, did you have anything else? JB: No, sir.
5/6/02 BOA - Section 7 of 9
DM: Tku. Public Works Coordr. JM: I have several items, YH. Uh the first thing is, uh under our previous Parks Director, I was asked to submit for a request for 2 parking lights for Vance Trails Park. & um, I did all the work with AmerenUE & they submitted a contract for a cost of $4293.92 to install 2 lights & if we install 'em, I think there's a fee of like $8-12 a month, for the lights. This contract is good thru 6/19 & I'm sure they would extend this if we wanted to put it in the budget for next yr. I would just have to call. But I have that contract here if you would like it, whatever the Bd's approval or decision. DM: Could I have a motion to go ahead & install these lights at Vance Rd Park? ?: ___ ?: 2nd. DM: Ald Causey, 2nd. q/c?
RH: Where's the money? RS: I believe we have a pretty good budget um for our parks, equipment & different stuff & I really don't think we used all of it. We had quite a bit budgeted. I believe we could get all of it or maybe the majority of it out of there. RH: Is it coming out of parks? That's what I want to know. RS: I think parks has got plenty of money. DM: Yes, it would come out of parks. RH: Then I have no problem with it, if it comes out of parks. If the money's there; that's all I'm asking.
JW: I think you'd have to reallocate it. There's money in the parks, but not specifically for that item. There's no line item that says new lights for parks, but my concern was I guess, that if Joyce was here, she could probably answer it. Is that recommendation from the Parks Cmte, or was that - I'm just concerned some about residences. Is it gonna shine in anybody's bedrm windows across the st or ? DM: It's open land across the st. JM: Actually JW, it's gonna be in the parking lot & then up into the woods right next to the playgrounds, as close as we can get it. Shouldn't be any _______ on any residents. DM: All in favor of the lights, say aye. (some or all do) Opposed? (none heard)
JM: Ok, the 2nd thing is, I have several requests for trees to be removed, on alleged city ROW. & after speaking with the mayor on 2 of 'em, I've submitted 'em out for bids & I've got 2 responses back. The first property is 635 Vest Ave. Um city ROW, there's a dead tree there. & um _______ my requests, I asked each co to give me their opinion on deadwood, or removing the tree if it was dead, whichever they felt. & both companies for this property at 635 Vest said the tree was dead & not worth trying to deadwood & save. & the 2 co's, Ray's Tree Svc bid was for $750, All Tree Care submitted a bid for $750. The 3rd co has not submitted a bid to me as of yet. Um, the other tree in question is 750 Forest Ave.
DM: I'm sorry, are these normally sealed? ____ the other co - JM: No our ord just requires either a written or a phone bid for anything under $2500. DM: Sorry, what was the other address? JM: The other address is 750 Forest Ave & again, I asked both co's to respond whether the trees were savable or if they should be taken down & one co responded & said they could deadwood the tree, but they'd be back in about 3 yrs to remove it, or somebody would. & his cost for removing that tree was $900. His cost for deadwooding it was $350; that would be Ray's Tree Svc. & All Tree Care submitted bid of $1100 to remove the tree & a bid of $360 to deadwood the tree & possibly do some spraying & deep-root therapy. Um I'm not exactly sure what that was (JM & JW chuckle).
DM: Based on the difference, would your recommendation to me that we go ahead & take 'em down? JM: It's my recommendation that if we do anything with these trees, we remove 'em. I do feel that the city probably should put in some cmte, criteria for trees because we get a lot of calls from people that think trees are dead. Um, since speaking with you on these 2, # 6 Lookout called me & they have a lg tree in their yard that um upon investigation with JB & myself, we believes the city, um it's by no means dead. There's probably a couple limbs that a tree trimmer would probably remove & shape it out, but it's by no means dead.
DM: Do you know if we've expended all our monies for this yr on trees? JM: That & some. We are over-budget in tree removal, before these 2 projects. DM: I guess we're waiting for the new budget on these trees. JW: Yes, YH, I'd like to have verification that these are really on city prop because we're gettin' a lot of calls, saying oh that's my tree when it's alive, but when it's dead, oh that's the city's. So until we really get verification; you heard Jim. I don't think he's 100% sure.
JM: I think we lack, that's one of the things I'm saying we need to do, criteria. It always ends up costing the city more to do a survey, than it costs to remove a tree. & if it's dead, then I feel that we're doing more good than bad by taking a tree down because we're gonna spend the money on a survey & then if it is our's, we're gonna have to take it down anyway. & it's real tough to determine. You need to be a surveyor to determine, unless the homeowners can show us their property line & we'd trust 'em in good faith that they're showing us their property lines. Uh the property at 635 Vest, the tree is outside the fenced-in yard. & I feel pretty comfortable, that tree is the City of VP's. & based on the info on Forest Ave, I'm kind of ________ . By measuremts, we got a 60' ROW & if I measure behind the utility poles on the opposite side of the st, 60' puts that tree well within our ROW. If I look at a diagram that we can pull up of the St L County aerial maps that John pulled for me, it shows the tree in the outlines of the property being on a third person's property that is a vacant lot. But again, that's only a guess & surveys are the only answer that I have. & we would probably spend $1100 surveying the property.
JW: I would hope that uh maybe the city engineer ___________ cmte or something, but the city engineer could come up with some kind of uh map of the whole town, make it a little simpler for Jim to calculate every single - I know he can't measure it out to the inch on everything. DM: The problem with Forest as I understand & a lot of other sts too, it's about 10 to 12feet out of where it's shown on the map. So that's sometimes getting' in a tricky situation. Like you say, it's the homeowner's tree until it dies, then all of a sudden then remember that the st __________ .
JM: & I feel real uncomfortable when we don't remove a tree in question because if the tree's dead & it would've been ours', if we miscued it, falls on a car, falls on a kid, I mean the city's at fault or liable for it. I think that's the, about the answer to your questions on general insurance, because we had an employee that had a major shoulder surgery thru Workmans' Comp & it ___________________ thru the same co & w/o investigating it, I believe that's where - JW: claims brought up on - JM: exactly.
BL: I would like to make a motion that we place this, if I can get a 2nd, in Pub Works. RH: 2nd. DM: q/c on putting in Pub Works? BL: I also agree that um on some of these, especially since you told me that right now we're out of um budget on this, we're only 7 wks out from our new fiscal yr, I figure by the time they look at this & it comes back to the full bd, we'll have a little better idea how we're gonna pay it if we do. & I also agree, I remember when the automotive place recently did some (felling or fill-in?) & he said there was a question about the rd _________ not really. It may be loose from where it was originally after several repavings, but uh I'm kind of in agreement on ___________ . DM: q/c?
DA: Again, it seems like that you know we're over-budget this yr on our tree removal. Just some info to take a look into, I guess into Forest Svc & probably the Dept of Conservation. There's a state-wide um, uh epidemic. If it's a tree that's ___________ hardwood, & we're gonna experience this a lot more over the next 3 to 5 yrs. Um, most of MO's hardwood, especially certain um species will, will die um over the next 3 to 5 yrs, so it's something to take a look at & get some info on it. It's available, um then we might be able to plan for it; just get some info.
RS: YH, I have a, I like Mr. Lancaster's idea. Um, the one at least in Pub Works & I've seen the one at 635 Vest many times. I guess I'm a little concerned with that one. I kind of feel that maybe the city needs to find the money to remove that one. That one is um dangerous. There's a big dead limb on that one hanging over the city st & it ain't gonna be long, that limb's gonna hit somebody or a car. RH: YH, I'm just as concerned on the one about on Forest Ave. If it goes, you know what's gonna happen there, somebody's gonna die. So my concern is ____________. DM: q/c? All in favor of placing the trees in Pub Works Cmte, say aye... - vote & roll call - PP: Place the trees into Pub Works - Yes: RH, TB, JW, RC, BL. No: DA, RS. - PP: 5 yes, 2 no. DM: It's in Pub Works Cmte. What else do you have?
JM: Okay uh, I spoke with the mayor. In our budget last yr, we budgeted for new T-shirts along with our uniforms. & I got some bids for that & I spoke with the mayor & he asked me to bring this up in tonight's mtg. The lowest bid was Sportsworld T-shirts here in VP. It's roughly $802.50 for 5 T-shirts for each man. Our intentions is to redesign 'em & go with a gray T-shirt with orange stripes because the, the orange shirts are tending to fade & we think we might be a longer wear out of 'em by changing to a lighter color, plus it's cooler for the men during 100 & something degree weather. DM: 14 people, so we know roughly how many shirts we're talkin'. JM: Roughly, we're talkin' 75 T-shirts. DM: 75 T-shirts, $850. JM: Yeah, $802.50 from Sportsworld, Johnny Mac's Sportings Goods was $1017.50 & Dub's T-Shirts was $890.
JW: I thought the safety orange was a built-in safety factor. I know they fade after a while, but even when they're faded, they're still brighter than the gray, but the guy riddin' on the back of a trash truck, cuttin' across 141, I would think he would need some kind of safety color. I don't personally think gray is a good ideal. It matches the pavemt. JM: The reason, that's the reason for the orange stripes that come from the front to the back on both sides. I viewed um Waste Mgmt shirts & I, this will be in the same bright orange as our shirts is. This reflective color will be in orange. JW: But will it be reflective? Like theirs' is actually reflective like tape. JM: It will be fluorescent; I would not say reflective, but it will be fluorescent. DM: After several washings, like I say the orange shirts fade after a while. These shirts still will be brighter, at least as bright if not brighter after a like # of washings? JM: It's my opinion that when I did the work on these, I tried to find the shirt that would last longer, be more comfortable for the men & actually be cooler & with the orange, still have the safety implemented into it. & again if we weren't wearing the T-shirts, we would be in a gray overshirt, with no safety, with no safety. DM: You say the grays are cooler? Well gray with the orange is cooler than the orange. That was the primary reason. JM: Lighter colors was cooler. Yes.
DA: Make a motion to accept the lowest bid. JW: YH, which budget does this come out of 'cause this isn't a new yr yet? JM: This was out of this current fiscal yr's budget, _____ thousand - JW: I mean what, what, why - JM: Uniform budget. JW: So you're saying you're not, you're under budget by $800? JM: I'm probably under budget by $3000. (some chuckle, & someone says: "there goes a tree" & they laugh) DM: Was it DA, you made the motion for the T-shirts, correct? DA: For the lowest bid, yes. DM: ____ second. q/c on T-shirts? All in favor lowest bid, say aye. (evidently all do) Opposed. (none heard) Next item please.
5/6/02 BOA - Section 8 of 9
JM: Um, RH, when he was Chairman of Pub Works, uh had went thru the Pub Works Cmte & our city engineer was instructed to look at stormwater problems at 9th & Vest. & his engine, one of his engineer's & myself spent the day down there um shooting grade & looking at some possible fixes. & the Pub Works Cmte told them to submit whatever they could to MSD & they submitted a grant application in Oct for approval & the total cost of the project was $180,600. & their grant application was about 50/50 match which would've been $90,000. Our engineer has informed me to inform the bd that MSD has did across the bd cuts & they didn't discriminate against the City of VP. All other cities got less than a 50/50 in-kind match & they approved us for $58,000 um towards this project & that would leave the city at roughly having to pay $125,000 for this project. & I was bringing that up to possibly put in Pub Works Cmte for consideration for the next budget, or if we want to scrap the project.
DA: So move to put in Pub Works. ?: ___ . DM: q/c? JW: What is the time limit on that grant? JM: I believe we have to have it under contract within one yr from date of issuance. JW: So you're saying it's unlimited then? JM: From my understandings & speaking with Tom Weis of PH Weis & Assoc, we have one yr to get it under contract. JW: From today, or - DM: Now? Well I mean not exactly today, but I think it's about- JM: I believe he spoke with you also - DM: I can't remember. I'll have to check with __________, but at the end of this yr, we have to be under contract ______ ________ - JM: I believe, I believe that we're talkin' - DM: __________ get back with them on this. Don't want to drag out feet too much. RS: So we're talkin' the end of the fiscal yr? DM: The end of the calendar yr, Dec 31st. Ok, we got a motion to put this in Pub Works. q/c? In favor, say aye. (some or all do) Opposed (none heard) Pub Works.
JM: Also, we did do a study & a cost analysis on Marshall Rd. & a rough estimate is $150,000 just for an overlay. DM: _________ ? JM: Exactly. DM: How much was that, 150? JM: $150,000. Also um, we were instructed, John & myself were instructed to attend a Phase 2 Stormwater Permit Seminar Thurs. Eric knows quite about the project. Basically, the EPA is forcing most municipalities & things in the State of MO, maybe in the entire country, to um apply for a Phase 2 Stormwater Permits. & the overseer that EPA put in charge of this basically doesn't have any manpower or any money. & John & I sat in a mtg all day Thurs & Tom Weis spent a half a day there. It got real interesting as Tom left. They don't have no money to do their job so they basically gave the guideline of, the city makes their own permits, make their own goals, keep track of their progress & if they don't like the results, that the city can be fined. Um naturally, this wasn't met with a lot of enthusiasm from the public that was there & -
DM: Did they say we could work with them along the way so we don't get fined or are is it just a guess at the end, whether or not we meet the criteria? JM: It was my belief that right now, that if this goes into effect, the way they're doing it, that's the way it works. Um there's a cmte going on right now in St. L. VP sits on the cmte, but we don't have an active member that goes to the mtgs. MSD has a gentleman from audit, uh City of Manchester's engineers there. Fenton has somebody that attends the mtgs. & after speaking with Tom Weis, we feel it's possibly detrimental that we get Tom attending these mtgs because another request that we're gonna have to put in the budget this yr, for this Phase 2 Stormwater things, is we will probably be required by law to streep, to sweep our streets on a regular basis. & in order to do that, we're gonna have to have a streep, a street sweeper that will be reliable enough. So I think this is something that's gonna be mandated. Right now they took all of our info back & we're feelin' the deadline's gonna be pushed backwards, but it's by no means gonna go away. (silence)
5/6/02 BOA - Section 9 of 9
The last thing I have that possibly could be considered for the budget um we're received several bridge inspections from MODOT. Um that section on Hanna Rd, RH, still has a bridge on it & it had a very poor inspection from MODOT. & uh, under the previous administration, PH Weis & Assoc has been gaven approval to submit a proposal to the city for a cost estimate for repair & that hasn't been done yet. & I'm asking that the city at least allow PH Weis & Assoc to inspect the bridge, look at the findings from MODOT & come up with a cost est for repair. DM: Which bridge is this? JM: This is the bridge on Hanna Rd just north of Vance. DM: Did he give you an est of what it would be? JM: Actually, what had happened was, we gave the info to PHWeis in Dec & it kind of fell thru the craps. & I brought it back up to him & he felt that we should ask permission at least for him to do his cost analysis on this. & find out what the cost would be & possibly budget this money for our next fiscal yr. DM: I guess then I'll get with them & have Chairman FW&M ______________ based on what his cost est is, see whether or not the city, can hopefully have the funds for it, but repairing the bridge is probably cheaper ________ . Tku JM, very good. Police Cmdr, Lt. Melies, do you have anything? LtM: No.
DM: Bills. RC, I missed some of your things _________. Um we can go thru 'em now. I probably should've brought some other, we can bring Mr. Boggs back up if you need, or Mr.McMullen. Crescent Valley stormwater. RC: Yes, YH, I'd like to uh ask if we could put that uh into a uh Public Works mtg, perhaps even just a special one if the uh chairman would consider that where we can uh talk about that _________ . DM: _____ stormwater on Crescent Valley. I'll place that in the uh Pub Works by executive direction.
The St L County Municipal League. RC: Yes, YH, I'm a little concerned about how the Munic League fits into city gov't. I guess I just, you know, want to openly say that I, I think it's a great idea that we probably have had that point of contact, but I sure wouldn't want to see 'em startin' to, you know, kind of, I don't want 'em to quit preachin' & start to meddlin'. & a couple times uh there's been like, well, the Munic League said this & that type of thing. I, I wish, I don't know how to really approach this unless some of the other ald have a, a comment that, I'm, I'm not in favor of us causing more CONfusion & conflict because of getting a different opinion on things. & I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm for figuring out how to stop this, but I'm, I'm looking for some suggestions.
DM: I've called them because they've been doing this for yrs; they're experts. Sometimes with a bit of an area of confusion, when I get something, I'll work with Mr. (Harlan?) like on the budget. Uh there's different booklets they have on how to prepare budgets & everything. The further info we can get, why reinvent the wheel. _____ work one time, he says 2 wks working out on the floor, can save an hour of research. It's kind of a tongue-in-cheek of saying sit down & draw your plan up first, then go out & do it, rather than go out & do it once you _______ trial & error processes & find out that if somebody had planned, or reading the book first, would've saved us some time. I'm not saying they're the end-all of expertise, but if they are there, they have the knowledge; that's what they're there for. If we don't want to use 'em, then I guess ______ _____________ .
RC: Well, YH, I'll, I'll comment just a little bit. I, I think that the philosophy of 2+2=4 is a good idea, unless 2 of the items are say chickens & the other 2 items are say wolves. I mean, you're not gonna, the common sense part sometimes is left out. & I, I would hope that if we're going to approach uh the Munic League on some, some legal issue, I would hope that we're filtering it thru our, our legal advice at some point, before we get into conflict.
DM: Is there a specific example of something where we've not - RC: Well, it's just been ah kind of a, a common ah thing happening over the past yrs. I mean, it, it was even, even in the last administration. So I mean, I, I just want to bring it to everybody's attn & if there's a reason uh for justice, I'd like for us to consider that. DM: Would you recommend we, like for instance, Munic League has newly elected official seminars & seminar in the fall, those sort of things, hope you're not recommending we neglect those, or not use those. RC: I'm not recommending that, but I would say that if, if they're giving out, they, they, I don't think that they mean to be causing any of this. It's just that um it's a good idea maybe to bounce it off somebody, but it's not a good idea to pit, you know, the city &, & the philosophy of the city against, you know uh, whoever is giving the advice at the Munic League. That's what, that's what troubling me.
DM: Okay, signs on Sorlee. RC: Yes, YH, I'd like to make some kind of a motion that we give a um whatever the pooper scooper uh ordinance says, somehow we have that made on a sign & placed in, there's a really nice flowerbed there, some gentleman just goes out of his way to make it great & then the dogs come along & just kill things. &, &, & ah I think it's, it's just uh in the spirit of, you know, tryin' to beautify the city more, maybe a couple of signs made & place one of 'em there & maybe keep the other ___________. JW: Put sponsored by RC on it. RC: Oh absolutely. Absolutely. Um I'm, I'm saying uh that's, that's what I'd like to, if I can get a 2nd uh. I don't know that it even needs to be _____________________. 'cause I was talking to the gentleman on the phone the other day & he _________. DM: JM, do you know if there's a standard sign? I've, I've seen some say, say, please clean up after you're pets or something. Do we have, or do you know of something, if we don't have one already?
JM: I don't know if there's a standard sign, but I know there's any sign or any ord that any city would have, our sign co ____________, by ord ___, pooper scooper law & define what it is. I've seen it, believe it or not, over in south county last week at the entrance to a subdivision. Didn't look that great. There were about 50 signs before ____________________ saying, No walking eastbound when traffic's going west. I mean it was just ____________. But, yeah, there is signs available. JW: YH, will you permit me to ask Scott a question? Can you enforce that? (audience is chuckling & mumbling) LtMelies: You can enforce any ord that the city has. JW: I don't see that _________________ . (more chuckling & mumbling) JW: We've got that ord now. Have you enforced it I should say. DM: RC, Where, you said you wanted, was the sign on Sorlee you're asking for right now, or what was - RC: I, I did & I'm just looking for some type of appropriate signage in the cul-de-sac with a flowerbed or something, so that the folks who are walking their animals will know that really isn't a local dumping ground.
DM: Mr.Clerk, Mr. Pillow, our Clerk, if you could check that ord out & see what it states & if we have enough info in there that JM can go ahead & have the sign printed up ___________ to state the ord. RS, did you have a cmt? RS: YH, I realize that RC probably has a couple residences complaining about it; it's killin' the bushes. I think what would be appropriate in my eyes would be to see the city send a nice, like a letter to that cmty, sayin', look, you have ________. DM: To the homeowner or pet owner you say? RS: The homeowners, or that pet owner. I mean if you're gonna single somebody out, rather than to go post a sign, & you know, if that doesn't work, then maybe that's what it takes. I'd hate to see us drive thru our cmty & see some unwanted signs.
RC: YH, perhaps we can just put that in the newsletter instead of putting it in a letter. That _________________ 'cause I'm sure it's probably ______ ________________ . DM: Ok, that's a good suggestion. RC: & unless we can try that & I'll let the, the resident know um that that was the wish of the bd at this time. DM: Alright, we'll go with the newsltr for now & then um I guess just see what the ord says, so we can state that in the newsltr & if we need the sign __________________ .
Stormwater at Mr. Ferguson's. RC: Uh, yes YH, there's a gentleman who lives in the Morton's grove area, & he's got a, a stormwater problem that floods sometime & I was just wondering if I could get that put into Pub Works & invite Mr. Ferguson to come because quite frankly, it's the first time I've heard he's having a problem with it & I, I just want to see if there's something we can do to help out. DM: I'll place that in by exec decision.
Agenda opens. RC: Yes YH, one of the reasons I probably go on too long up here on some issues is because I keep these lists, ok. I ask about something & it, it doesn't happen, ok. & what I was wondering is there not some way that we can actually use the agenda? You know, the old bus on the actual agenda we have? I mean every, everybody else does. &, & if there's something that didn't get action, it ought, it, it, it just reminds whomever that they need to report the status of it. & I'm, I'm saying, uh when the mins are done by the clerk & the clerk says the motion was made ta, to do this or whatever, then then we could look at it & see that & everybody will get used to the idea that their project isn't gonna fall thru the cracks & have to keep reminding people. It's, it's kind of a, it's done, I, I know when I was on the library bd, it, it was a great tool because it always kept your feet to the fire for something to get done &, & you didn't have to go back & bother somebody every 5 mins. If you could add those type of items, I think all of the ald would appreciate that, like a scorecard approach. DM: We'll see if we can work up.
Mrs.Crumpepper. I was going to follow-up & talk to her, but I did not have a chance, but if you feel confident that she would be good for the Parks, I'll go ahead & make an appointmt if you want. RC: I think if you're short a member & you wanna kind of beef it up a little bit, it'd be a good idea, but it, it could wait, if the other members want to.
DM: Fishing Derby coming up. I personally could use all the help we can get. RC: I'll go with that in the form of a motion. RS: I'll 2nd it. (stage people mumble.) DM: RC, if you get the name after the mtg, please - RC: It's alright, ok. DM: RC made a motion, RS 2nd Mrs Crumpepper to serve on the uh Parks Cmte. RS: I hope that this um resident is out of Ward 3. RC: Yes, absolutely, absolutely. DA: YH, um do you know this individual? DM: I do not, RC is recommending her & it sounds like based on RC's recommendation for her, I'll go ahead & make this appointment. DA: Ok, tku. RC: YH, just to show the civic uh involvemt, she was quite involved when they were trying to do the multi-housing down in the Crescent Valley Ct area & uh she expressed an interest at that time to uh get involved with the city & uh when an opening came up, I mentioned it to her & I talked to her this wk. DM: Good addition to the cmte. Finally, candidate certifications, so you'd like that in Leg Cmte? RC: Uh, did we vote on that, YH? DM: Oh, I'm sorry. All in favor of Mrs. Crumpepper serving on the uh Parks Cmte, say aye (some or all do). Opposed? (none heard).
RC: & the last item, YH, I thank you for your indulgence. Perhaps old business will eliminate some of this repeatin' stuff. Um I, I don't want to see us bumping into each other again at this next election. I think it'd be maybe a good idea if we put this candidate certification in the Leg Cmte. Find out what some other people are doing, & let's see if we can't do this differently. Let's put it that way. I, I just don't think we need to repeat what happened. I'm not gonna throw any blame anywhere. I just, let's just improve where we can. Is it possible that just that be put in Leg & then we can come back with some recommendations? DM: I'll place this in Leg Cmte by exec action. Is that all? I believe that's all you had, RC? RC: Yes. Tku, YH.
DM: Tku. Anything else? I guess we're ready for exec sess? BL: Did we already cover the one item _____ for the uh (conversation for the living room? No. ) compensation for the levee man? DA: I think it was placed in uh FW&M. DM: All in favor of, er roll call vote on the exec session for litigation & for personnel. (Yes: RH, TB, DA, RS, JW, RC, BL.) 7 yes, zero no. Lt. Melies, since we're kind of gettin' along here, I'm gonna go ahead & try to get into this & get this out of your - (nothing more said & people leave). (End 5/6/02 Bd Mtg)