Notes:  Arnold's Landing Resolution passed


Present:  RH, TB, RS, DA, JW, RC, BL.  (Also DM, EM & PP.)



5/20/02 BOA  - Section 1 of  9


DM: Call this regular mtg to order 5/20.  PP, take roll please. - Present: RH, TB, RS, DA, JW, RC, BL..  Pledge Allegiance. -  DM:  I have 2 speaker cards from John  Schmerold & from Maureen Morris.  (AP, John Beard: Where you got 'em at?  Where are the speaker cards at?  AP: Here, Johnny, make one up.  Another AP:  Here's some, Mr. Beard, if you want.)  DM: Any items to add to the agenda?  


DA: Yes, YH, I'd like to make a motion at this time.  One, that we hear the speaker request uh from the citizens.  Two, that we approve the BOA  mins of 5/6/02 & the Leg mins & actions, with the exception of item 1, for 5/13/02;  pay the bills, including the PG Purdy bill with explanation from the city atty;  passage of Resolutions 5-20-02 & 5-20-02A;  reallocate $10,500 that's budgeted for the mayoral assistant for special uh counsel to represent the ald identified in the mayor's last paid um campaign letter.  Uh, the next item would be to read Bill 1682 in 2 readings & then adjourn the mtg uh after disposition of Bill 1682 & make that the form of a motion.  DM: Do I have a 2nd?   RC: I'll 2nd for discussion.  JW: Can I have discussion too, YH, after ______?    RC: That's all right, I ________.  JW: I'd like to have 10 mins for each one of DA's, uh if that motion passes.  I want to speak 10 mins on each item that he named off.  Or I can start right now, since I guess - DM: First, Mr. Schmerold's requested that Bill 1682 be held over because he, or just for the next mtg is probably more prudent than to hold it over. First of all, ask that that be held over.  DA: I would remove Bill 1682.  DM: Any other q/c? 


DA: YH, again, my reasoning for this request is because every item that's brought before this Bd & because we disagree on that item, you've taken upon liberty among yourself to explain & give an explanation as to our action & it's inaccurate & wrong, & that publication placed in, in a business location, uh TJ Wings, um was inappropriate.  & I have been very courteous to the people involved & have been very courteous in my responses to each one of those items not to um cast a negative light on this city.  I would like to take & respond to those items, but because in your final paragraph, you suggested that a group of citizens gather together & take legal action against the Bd members for disagreeing or going against uh your wishes, um I'm not at liberty now to conduct business & give explanations.  But I would like the opportunity to respond to those things after I'm sure that I've done the proper um, after we have the proper um response to that.  That's my reason for this.  & I apologize to that ald who may want to speak tonight for the citizens that come here, but I'm not, I'm, I'm angry about this.  This letter was wrong & inaccurate.  That's all I've got to say. Tku. 


DM: DA, I would believe you'd be covered on your errors & omissions if there was something you would uh be concerned about being sued under.  If you want to express your viewpoint on it, that's part of what this mtg is about, is to state your view on something.  A difference of opinion is healthy as long as we do it in an organized & productive & according to the Rules, Robert's Rules of Order, which we follow.   JW: I don't know what's gonna happen, but uh I'd like to add to the agenda some items like, uh I have maybe some insubordination charges against the city clerk, salary ordinance for the clerk, marshal & the judge, & the mins that DA is wanting to approve.  That is a disgrace to the city.  There's so much uh, uh misspelling in that thing.  If somebody reads that, & I hear they're wanting to take & reduce, not having the tape playing, or recording the mins;  that's part of the mins. There's another big major item, they're wanting to get out of the Municipal League.  Uh, if these ald want to RR stuff like that thru, you need to let us vote on that tonight.  I'd like to hear my issues included.  DM: Tku, JW.  Any other q/c? 


DM: DA, would you please list your items again. I got some of 'em down.  DA: Um the 1st item, that the uh speaker requests be heard.  The 2nd item would be approval of BOA  mins of 5/16, er 5/6/02;  approval of the Leg mins & actions with the exception of Item 1 for the mtg of 5/13;  um pay the bills including PG Purdy proposal after explanation by the city atty;  passage of Resolutions 5-20-02 & 5-20-02A;  reallocate $10,500 budgeted for the mayoral assistant position, to be used for special counsel to represent the ald identified in the mayor's latest campaign letter;  & upon completion of the reallocation, um adjournment of the mtg.  Tku. JW: Just for clarification, I'd like the city atty to uh explain or tell me, can you have a motion for 35 things like that.  I mean uh, wouldn't that be an exception of trying to hide something & not wanting to talk about something?   I don't think the bd's done anything wrong, but if you want to make multiple motions, I think you need to uh do 'em separately.  If he wants to RR every item thru there, let's do 'em one at a time. 


EM: I think you could move in that direction, but I think his motion stands as it is.   ________ separate _________.  JW: No, I'm sayin' is it legal?  Can you do multiple motions within one?  EM: I, I think you can have multiple subjects on a motion. I think it's part of a motion.   JW: Yeah, but that would be conducting a whole city's business in one motion.  So if that is proper, I, I, Mayor Adams is upset about a letter.  Whether, you know  - I haven't read the thing, but if he's that upset about it, I, I feel he's taking it out on the citizens & the rest of the city.   & uh, I would hope he would reconsider this & I'd like to be read each individual item that he's concerned about;  & if he's that concerned about the mayor, & he wants to do it in public session, letter, or read it, let everybody hear it so we all understand where he's coming from.  & just you know, why - I don't understand why he's that concerned about it.  I mean maybe after I read it, I might be jumpin' up & down & be worse than he is about it, but I just don't think he's being fair to the city to do that.  RC: ________ question.  This is  ______ .  DM: All in favor of DA's motion. - (stage people mumble)  ?:  2nd.  TB: _______________DA reconsider ___________________________ ___________.   DA: Out of the state of cooperation, I'm gonna change my motion to have at the beginning of the mtg, the letter that I'm referring to, read by the mayor, um to the citizens & at that time, I would again, if, if, I, that, just leave that as the motion.  & in the 2nd item, _________ I would like to have, actually let's leave that as a motion, have the mayor's letter read.  DM: So you're withdrawing your other motion?  DA: yes.  JW: I'll 2nd that.  DA: At the request of TB.  DM:  All in favor of the motion to have the mayor read the letter, say aye.  (some or all do) All opposed. (none heard)


5/20/02 BOA  - Section 2 of  9


DM cont'd:  A Journal of Happenings - Mayor Michel, Mayor Michel accepted a resignation of Joyce Brust as the Parks Coordr.  Mayor Michel recommended Mr. Gil DeNormandie as the new Parks Coordr. Gil's been a Parks Bd member for several yrs & is currently the Parks Bd Chairman;  however, the Bd rejected him as the coordinator. 


The City of VP was a member in good standing of the Municipal League, a support group of cities.  This org. offers a wealth of free legal or municipal advice.  It also opens the door for grants & the latest technology & a wealth of ______.  Under the previous administration, it was ok for BL to ask the Municipal League the procedure to remove the city clerk.  It was ok for RC to ask how to remove the atty, but it's not ok for Ald Michel to be an active member of the Mun. League, or to seek their knowledge to improve our standard of living. 


Mayor Michel submitted Mr. Rob't Biggs, a resident & business owner known by all on the bd, as ald for the vacant 4th ward seat.  Mr. Biggs was rejected.  The bd has already informed Mayor Michel that they will not accept his appointmt of Bob Bruhy, resident & former DARE officer for the VP Sch Dist, no real or logical reason for rejecting long-time & upstanding 4th ward residents. This seat remains vacant because Dan Michel was elected mayor.  He should have the right to appoint his replacemt. 


Mayor Michel has been told that he needs to reveal his campaign promises in order to negotiate what he wants from the bd.  Mayor Michel's campaign promises were to work for the taxpayers & replace the city, prosecuting & levee atty.  What's to negotiate?  Why would anyone negotiate with taxpayers' money?  Would you compromise your neighbor's money? 


At the 1st BOA  Mtg for the new mayor, the BOA  elected to replace Marguerite Wilburn, a ten-yr, experienced  city clerk.  Supposedly she was replaced because of what she did for the former mayor & state statute directed her to do on the tax issues for an elected ald;  or was she removed because she was paid too much?  The bd designates the wages.  Mr. Michel asked if the bd replaced Mrs. Wilburn for whatever reason, that they at least select an experienced city clerk.  After all, this person is responsible for the handling of your tax money.  Mrs. Wilburn was replaced by Mr. Pillow, a former VP Police Officer.  Mr. Pillow is a pleasant person who was liked by all as a policeman;  however, he has no municipal clerk experience, no experience handling your tax dollars.  If Mrs. Wilburn was earning too much as the city clerk, then why is Mr. Pillow earning the same wage & again no experience, for the same money?  Plus, your taxes are paying the atty, auditor & software svc to train him.  This is strictly a BOA  decision;  the mayor has no control. 


In fact, Mr. Pillow has shown direct insubordination to the mayor.  Mr. Pillow removed the city office staff from the timeclock.  Mr. Michel, Mayor Michel directed Mr. Pillow to put the timecards back in use;  he has not!  Our auditing firm highly recommends keeping the timeclock for the office staff.  Timecards are legal documents used for protecting employees & employers.  Also, Mr. Pillow does not deem it necessary to advise Mayor Michel when he will not be __________ at work.  However, Mr. Michel is being accused of not cooperating with Mr. Pillow.  Your BOA  mtgs under the tutelage of Mrs. Wilburn were taped & transcribed.  If you've attended mtgs, you would understand the benefit of taping;  confusion can run rampant.  However, as a directive from the bd, Mr. Pillow will no longer tape the mins.  There will be no proof of the mins;  the mins of mtgs can easily be altered illegally.  This can & has happened in other cities.  Plus, a very minor point, Mr. Pillow obviously is not doing the mins.  He is a more professional person than to allow the mins to be published with grammar, composition & spelling errors.  Mr. Pillow is being used. 


Mayor Michel removed Mrs. Sue Fowler from the Parks Dept's secretarial position that 4 yrs ago, paid $200/mo, & 2 yrs ago paid nothing.  However, Mrs. Fowler was earning the wage of the Cmty Dev Dir's assistant.  Mayor Michel accepted a derogative resignation letter signed by Mrs. Sue Fowler & written by someone else.  But certain members of the bd want her back.  According to the Employees' Handbook, relatives may not work within the same dept.  Mrs. Fowler has been working with her brother-in-law in the Parks Dept, & her son-in-law is an ald.  Either the related employee should resign or the related ald should resign.  Put an end to the nepotism.


Ald Causey & Adams are executing unauthorized, clandestine mtgs with the atty;  it runs up our fee.  They're undermining the best interests of the city by opposing the elected mayor.  Mayor Michel's informed some, if Mr. Mic, Mayor Michel has performed some illegal or unethical act, this behavior would be understandable, but Mayor Michel has not had a chance to do anything productive or non-productive.  Mayor Michel has asked for a full-blown levee audit, not the annual financial audit, but an audit of the policies & procedures.  The city needs to know why it's taking so long to build the levee!  This should've been done yrs ago!  Somebody's getting rich at the expense of the residents of the city!


It is time to stand up for the man you elected as mayor. It is time to demand the BOA conduct an extensive audit of the levee.  The audit is the mandatory requiremt before completion of the levee, so why not do it now?  If there are problems, we might be able to correct them before it becomes too costly because the levee is only 60% completed.  Mayor Michel has had very little support from the elected city officials, so he's asking for your support.  Call him; he wants to work for you, but he can't.  We need a seasoned resident for Ward 4 aldermanic replacemt. We need a respectful, experienced city clerk.  He needs help with projects & cmtes.  Call your ald & let them know how you feel.  Call Dan Michel at home at 636-861-2806.  Let him know if you want him to fight for your tax dollars.  Attend the BOA  Mtgs, Parks Mtgs, P&Z Mtgs & Levee Mtgs.


Residents need to take & follow the steps of another city that formed a court & held legal proceedings against their elected representatives.  All that is required is for registered voters to form a cmte, acquire legal counsel & bring charges.  Sure they have errors & omissions, but they will know you mean business.  They know that their political reputations are at stake.  They will know responsible, mature officials are needed.  Your tax dollars are being wasted.  Can you afford to let them be wasted?  It's time to stop the games & give Mayor Dan Michel the chance that you voted for.


I have agreed to pay for this letter & I'm in agreement with the statements.  My main goal is to finish the levee, so the city can move on.  Once the levee is completed, we should begin to realize tax relief.  I do not want the city to continue to waste money repairing streets that will be torn up to install sewers.  I want to improve the appearance of VP with clean-up, repair & beautification projects.  If you have questions, again 636-861-2806.


DM cont'd:  DA, you have a comment?  DA: Yes I would.  Mrs. Wilburn is a friend of mine & she served under me as mayor.  I can, I can list, & I've got the list here of reasons, legitimate reasons why I chose to not, to appoint um you know, cast my vote towards her.  My, my right under Mo law, is that I can vote & it's the Bd's right to vote for their um city clerk, which I exercised.  I don't want & I will not uh at this time, give my specifics.  I don't want to do that; it is not appropriate.  The statutory rights of um the ald of 4th class allow me to do without uh hurting another individual. 


Um Mr. DeNormandie was not appointed that night, not because this Bd refused & want to work against you.  They voted against him.  I voted for his nomination if you will recall, but he was not here to answer questions & the Bd was not comfortable um doing that.  Um the so-called mtg that was so long that Ald Causey & Ald Adams participated, was not even called by either individual.  Um the Pres of the Business Assn called me & asked me to arrange a mtg to begin some... (exchange tapes)  DA cont'd:  :...nothing against you in that.  Uh the appointment of Mr. uh Biggs, & again, I have no issue with Mr. Biggs or his business, but I can tell ya that there's way too much business being taking place out at TJ Wings.   & I've got right here that the City of VP even has a designated night called The Mayor & BOA  Night at TJ Wings & that's wrong.  & I'm not gonna participate in it.  That's why I'm so mad.  The info in your letter is wrong.


Recently, your other comments over the radio um classifying the residents of Ward 1, the reason they live in a floodplain is because of all they've _____;  that's ridiculous.  We can't, many of us can't afford to live where we want to & I'm not sure how um, or what demographic study you used to arrive at that.  Um, I can tell you, I, I can look around & make the same assumption that all the churches are in  Ward 1.  I guess we're holier people than the rest of the city.  I don't believe that for a moment, but that's the kind of logic I must assume that you're using.   This is why I'm mad.  It's not that we're picking on you.  We have differences & agreement & direction. 


5/20/02 BOA  - Section 3 of 9 


(Continuing to address DM) DA:  (regarding) Mr. Martin, & you have made it your absolute goal to remove him & I, I'm gonna tell ya, Mr. Martin, under my administration as mayor, um & with him as city atty & level counsel, & with many of this very same Bd members, completed more of the levee & left the levee in good condition to be um completed.  I'm not gonna comment on what happened after that or what's happening now.  So that combination will work.  & I can tell ya, your personal hatred or dislike for Mr. Martin, um has cost the city plenty of money in the past & specifically in the effort to annex Peerless Park.  The city spent thousands & thousands of dollars working on agreemt & had every person in agreemt, but your personal relationship in that, with the petitioners there, um stopped that effort;  & um again, I wanted to lay it out tonight.  & I do appreciate TB for um asking me not to do this because I know we have business here. 


I'm, I'm suggesting that the mayor stop his games.  This is not your entire city.  You were elected to lead, but lead by share & asking for help.  Uh, I, as uh a former mayor, with success, um was not asked to help or chair any cmte mtgs.  & I would've thought you, as a responsible mayor, would've used the most experienced help as you claim that you would've with the um city clerk.  Again, I appreciate you lettin' me respond to this & get this off my chest, but think a little bit before you um write that & publish letters.  Um, there are other people who may not want to respond in the same fashion, um that you do; however, at this particular time, forced me to respond.  Tku. 


DM: Tku, DA.  If I can respond briefly, the uh comment on the radio you referred to, was a gentleman who had come to me & said, if he got the money out of his house that he could, he would move to a house about half the size of the house that he was living in at the tme, for the same money.  So there was a ____________ from the Circle of Concern, made more of the comments about people living down in this area because they just couldn't afford it.  So unfortunately, his comments I think, & mine kind of got worked together.  The uh Charles Brennan was the other one on the radio he was interviewing.  He didn't even realize we were building a levee down here.  I was trying to emphasize that we're working to get the levee done so the people will be protected, the businesses will be able to grow & the whole town will be able to prosper.  I don't know how those comments got unfortunately misconstrued there. 


I did ask for Mr. Martin's removal at the 1st mtg, but since the bd has retained him, I feel I've worked with him as a professional basis here.  I've talked to him about getting advice & working on things here.  So I hope that we can continue to work together as long as he is retained as our atty.  As far as the annexation, I happened to meet Susan McCole going over to a bd mtg one time when their was a land _____ refuse & various things over there in St. Louis Composting, that when it's turned over, the smell would come over into VP, particularly Ward 4 because our area is the closest.  So I had several residents call up to see what we could do about the smell, so I went over there in an attempt to try to work with the

people over there in Peerless Pk. 


I happened to meet Susan McCole.  Then later, she was talking about various issues & one particular thing that came up was the proposed topless bar, adult cabaret I guess they were referring to, on the NW corner of 141 & 44.  I went there as much as a citizen was all, but from the Ward 4 there, to see what we could do as neighbors & try to prevent this.  I talked to Father Rosy at Sacred Heart Church & Dr. Lea at the school, to see if we could get some home _____ uh support on this.  & during this uh conversation there, then the annexation issue came up & it was, there was some, say oppositions, where Mr. Martin was their city atty there at the time, & they expressed this to me.  Susan McCole stated that as long as we had uh various things there, one of 'em was Mr. Martin was our city atty, they would not come into VP.  If you recall, I was sitting in her kitchen with my wife & she invited you over.  You came over on a Friday night & she said, point blank, told you that, that if Mr. Martin was gone, that they would vote to come into VP.  So I don't know what, for whatever reason, you had your reasons I'm sure, for not wanting to remove Mr. Martin, Eric, & bring Peerless Pk into VP.  I did not block that. 


Mary Corbett talked to me as late as yesterday & ________________ .  So that's the only reason they were even considering coming into VP was because they knew me & the relationship I formed going over there, trying to stop the adult cabaret & various things going on in their town, they were willing to talk to us in VP.  There was one time I voted no because I, at the beginning of the annexation, because I was afraid we would spend a lot of money on it & I didn't want to see it go by the wayside, which it did.  & again, just because I talked to Susan McCole a few times, I don't know how it came to be that I was the one who stopped that annexation proposal. 


Then later, Buzz Westfall went up to the government's county, rather Jefferson City to get a ________ at the last minute to freeze annexations for a couple of yrs, which we went & put our annexation attempts on hold, while a couple other cities were allowed to have theirs'.  I thought that was unfortunate, we cannot proceed with ours'.  But I have talked to the Boundary Cmsn last yr, a gentleman, uh I can't remember his name right now, but I talked with him & on the rezoning of the area here.  While talking to the Boundary Cmsn, I was saying ______  bring up some general ideas  & trying to update the Comprehensive Plan.   & talking with that, he said we could submit a plan which Mr. Martin had proposed there, when he acted as their city atty, that, I believe as you were the mayor at that time, that we could go ahead & begin the annexation proceedings or at least present a plan to St. L County that ___________ had all the stuff so we could go ahead & have a (someone coughs) with VP & what would be Peerless Pk _______ annex to the south, also land to the east to the Treecourt area.  So both of those areas would be very productive to get into our town.  & we have also an opportunity to the west, but that doesn't seem to be financially advisable at this time.  _____ something in the future ____________________ ruffle some feathers.


I hope the comments on the radio, I'm sorry that they came across as me being against the lower part of town, or feeling like they're lower income.  I was trying to emphasize the fact that we are working on the levee & I don't know why the gentleman on the radio, doing the interview, wasn't even aware we're working on the levee.  & once it's done, I hope he's down here to do amongst others, including the celebration of having this levee completed.  As now, we won't have to worry about a prediction in the future of 31', which unfortunately we had about 2 wks ago - the prediction that is, but only got to 24'.  & I'm thankful it only got that high & hope it stays down until we get the levee done & then it only comes up very rarely so it doesn't flood people that are still outside the levee.  Any other q/c? 


RS: You briefly touched on misspelling, & I think a couple other people may have.  Um I believe when you went around campaigning, um some of your literature was a little misspelled.  You spelled levee wrong.  So everybody makes errors, so I can't see that bein' a big deal.  & I'd like to touch on another thing. Mrs. Brust handed you a resignation & I was just kind of curious why.  This bd didn't reappoint her.  She didn't have to resign.  I never did understand that.  When someone's not reappointed, she didn't resign. (?:  that's true) I'm gonna comment on a couple other things.  I didn't vote to put my mother-in-law in that Parks position & I asked her not to do it to begin with.  All's I ever told you was she did a pretty good job I felt.  It was up to you whether you had _____ in there who could run it or not, is the only reason I mentioned that to you a lot.


With Marguerite, I like Marguerite.  I have no problems with Marguerite, but for several yrs that's all I've heard in this town, was how things was being said around this town, how she wasn't spending time in city hall proper.  I'm not gonna hide it;  that's the way I was told & from numerous times being in city hall, walking in here asking for something, everybody'd say, well, that's Marguerite's.  Marguerite was never there.  I had to come back at her convenient time, when she was here.  She was paid salary;  am I correct?  DM: She was paid salary.  RS: She didn't have to clock in & clock out, but she made sure everybody else did.  I seen many times, if anybody in that shop was a little late, she was on it, but boy, one word, you know to her; that's wrong.  That's why I voted the way I voted & like I said, I didn't have a problem with Mrs. Brust.  I like John & Joyce, but the bottom line is, is we don't need a Parks Coordr that's gonna show up here at 4:30 & work till 6:30, after hours.  That's all I've got to say.  DM: Tku, RS.  Any other q/c? 


PP: I'd just like to make a comment to clear up some of the things that aren't being brought out. One, I'm very well educated & I served my country for 21 yrs, & you're right, I didn't manage a million $ budget.  I managed a billion $ budget, & I got a Presidential Award that's in my resume packet that everybody should review because things were done with the resume.  I think that's why I got this award & I'm proud of it.  That's all I got to say. 


DM: I'll say that you have worked quite hard.  I've seen you working late at night & I appreciate that, talking to Mr. Croghan & various people.  I guess part of my comments, based on the fact the very first night you were elected as the city clerk, I asked you to step up here & take the city mins.  You said you weren't prepared.  So me being brand new to the _______ mayor & then not agreeing & taking the mins, I was, I'm sure getting to know how to get the budget in place in very short order, I'm not sure how that was ___________.  So I appreciate you very much, you serving our country.  I was in the country for, serving the Air Force for a much shorter time of 5 yrs, but as a veteran, I applaud you for that.  As I said, I appreciate your efforts for getting up to speed. 


But I talked to BL in the past before the uh the vote that night, & I gave him a list of various people who had served as assistant clerk in other places, some are even a city clerk, being a manager in various areas.  & I think the city is ready for a manager, at least I hope they are.  Maybe next yr, if not maybe 2 yrs, bring somebody in who can be here full time to know what's going on first thing during the day that ________dept. heads to brief them what's going on.  Somebody who's here who has a public policy degree to take charge of things.  Like if we had a full-time elected mayor, would not necessarily have that capability to be there, but _____ things all the time because they really don't have a background in it, but we would be restricted to somebody that lives here in town versus somebody who's _______ .  We've got various people like Jim McMullen does a very good job & does live in town.  But sometimes like 10:00 ________ nominated at the time, so wouldn't want to restrict the subject to somebody who lives in town_________ professional guidance.  So I apologize for slighting you.  I didn't realize you had a billion $ budget & I appreciate that.


5/20/02 Bd Ald - Section 4 of 9


JW:  You can tell his budget doesn't have spelling because he needs to go back & read those mins.  Those are a disgrace!  I wouldn't be braggin' about my education & presidential seals if I spelled like you did so.  & why is RC & PP at city hall at midnight?  Uh I know he's a dedicated person, but it looks suspicious when one ald, RC, & PP's in here at midnight.  DM: I believe PP was here the night we had the flooding potential, so it was __________ . I do appreciate you staying to help to keep the city somewhat under a _____.   JW: & another item is, is it true that he told the mayor that he don't have to do what you said?  He works for the bd & he uh took off Friday & didn't even inform the mayor that he was leaving.  I understand he had a family whatever.  That's fine; I understand that, but if he has, if he thinks that he doesn't have to report to the mayor & he works for the  bd, he thinks he works for RC is who he thinks he works for


RC:  Could you clear up one thing for me in this letter.  Uh I mean, are, are you, you said on the back that you agreed with everything in it.  Does that mean you wrote it, or is that, I, I mean that's the first thing.  I don't know who you offered authority.  DM: There's 3 or 4 people that worked on it. I had some input on it.  RC: Is it ok if we ask who they are, or is that not, I mean I'm just tryin' to have an open mtg.  Uh think about it.  Uh, the second ques I have is um, in, in this uh concept about the City of VP was a member in good standing with the Municipal League, a support group of cities;  this organization offers a wealth of free legal or municipal advice.  You didn't mean to say that they're going to give legal advice that the City of VP has to go by, did you?  You didn't mean that.  I don't think you did.  Did you?


DM: No, there was a mistake in that part of it because they can give a legal _____, I guess it's a positive look for reference _________ legal adivce for  ________.  RC: What I'm saying is you, you aren't suggesting that, that we could dismiss the city atty & make it just work the legal advice thru you, or thru whoever called you on it.  DM: Well, I guess that was based on the fact that you & BL each talked to Kevin O'Keefe at length on some legal advice & I've asked some questions at some of the mtgs about legal opinions in general.  I realize it always falls back on Mr. Martin, in this case, whoever the city atty is, to give the final opinion, but sometimes other opinions can be helpful on some things that are, that's why there's courts of appeals in some areas that are gray that ___________ difference of opinion.  RC: Le, le, let me clear up something here so that _________.  When I made a phone call to the Municipal League, & I, I admit I've done that.  I've asked them for what chapter of the State Statute talks about a certain thing so I could go & research it.  That's what I do & then I go & research it, & I think I'm kind of known for that.  So I mean, what I'm getting at is, is what my question is to the Municipal League is not that, I, I'm not exactly sure where you got this idea.  It's no secret that I've had difficult times with the city atty, um but what I'm saying is that I don't know where you got the idea that I, I asked a direct question like that because I know, I know well, how to get rid of the city atty.  I don't need to ask them.  For cryin' out loud, I mean just sit out there for 2 mtgs & you can figure that out. 


So, uh now, let me, let me go one step further here.  Uh on the back of this, & uh now I, I want to clear this up because I just don't want to walk out of this mtg with, with a misinformation of your intention here.  You're not suggesting that people get together & try to dissolve the City of Valley Park, are you?  Because I want to make sure that those last 2 paragraphs aren't in that, that category because if, if you're referring to the city that did this in the past, if that city was Peerless Pk, which I don't know, that that was the ultimate thing.  I just want to clear that up. You don't want to dissolve the City of VP, do you?  DM: I do not wish to dissolve VP & the city that did that was not Peerless Pk.  RC: Oh, ok 'cause then I, I didn't know what city you were talking about, so okay; that, that's fine. Uh tku. 


BL: Um I, I would like for the record just to state that the day that PP had to leave city hall, uh I was on the job working & I got somewhat of a frantic call.  I think he was almost to the hospital then & I guess, as an ald, my understanding, he attempted to reach you & he couldn't.  I don't know if your phone was off the hook, may be a cause.  Attempted to reach the pres of the bd &, & he couldn't reach him.  Uh I think he even, I may be mistaken, but he tried to call Russ & left a msg for him.  I was one of the first people he could get hold of & at the time I said, well where are you now?  He was going to meet his brother who is on the kidney transplant, I think it might've been liver, kidney transplant, & I apologize for not, but it was kind of a frantic call & he was at, goin' to Barnes Hospital & he was at Kingshighway & 40 then, which means he was getting' ready to go into the pkg garage & he asked me, as the only person he could get in touch with, if I could make a couple calls at the time.  I called the only 2 people I could get a hold of, which was RC & RS, just to make sure that it wasn't all on me.  But he did make every attempt as far as to let somebody know what had happened.  He had to be there for his brother who'd been on that transplant list for some time.  & I in return, tried to be as much help as I possibly could.  Um you know, that's for the record on that matter. 


DM: Well, if there's an emergency, I can certainly appreciate that, but I talk to Mrs. Helton almost 2 or 3 times a day, at least 3 times if not more on various things & ___________ various other people in the city & maybe it didn't come up at the time.  Perhaps she forgot to mention it or whatever.  If it was a family emergency, I truly apologize for that happening to your family.  I hope everything turned out _________. 


BL: _______ as far as my contact with Kevin O'Keefe, in one part, it was as a possible client that I spent some time with him. Um secondly, was like you would do in Municipal League mtgs, it was after one of his conferences on city gov't which they open up the floor to question & answers.  Um, I'm like Russ in a way.  I call & ask anything.  It's more for the uh the municipal code, or the State, you know, Statute on something.  As far as, as asking how to remove somebody, I never asked that.  I was told, because in the past administration of the mayor, my moving lips appointed it even tho he possibly, I think, now he says he didn't realize he wasn't able to do that, appointed the city clerk.  I was a little bit startled to find out that the city clerk by State Statute served the BOA .  & I think you know, that's the understanding because I think of the way you kind of found that out too, um when you started your administration.  & I know there was a little confusion on the P&Z deal.  I mean, you can't know everything & that's why we go to those conferences.  But uh it was kind of like the article in the paper;  um Ald Vote To Remove city clerk & I mean, it kind of bothers me when you're quoted in the Journal as making statemts that someone led the charge.  I was in the mtg where there was no charge. They elected a new clerk.  Someone made the motion, someone else seconded it & the bd voted.  I will say I voted in favor of the new clerk.  I never saw a charge or anything like that being done. 


As a matter of fact, uh at the mtg we had at your house when you had asked me, you know, BL, what would you like?  I'm comin' into office, what, what cmtes or what would you like, what can we work together on;  what do you need?  & if you'll remember, it wasn't asking for this cmte, or asking for that cmte, or this person to be removed or help me get rid of her or him. Only thing I asked for was is that, because of what I sat in 2 different yrs of the Parks uh Cmsn in Jefferson  City & Springfield, I'm a firm believer on this parks position.  The only thing I asked you for was if you could see if we could find the money in the budget for a full-time parks director, not at 50 or $60,000 like the article you had put in, or you were quoted as sayin'.  & I understand how quotes can be words taken out of context, but I mean that was the article where Mr. Stuart had asked for the same thing & it was like well, we don't have 50 or 60,000, um you know.  I never thought we needed to spend that much money to begin with.  That was the only thing I asked you for, not how to remove someone or not how to spearhead a movemt to get rid of somebody.  Just if we could afford that, where my heart was, the parks, if we could afford a full-time parks person. I didn't really care who it was if they could do the job, fine, as long as they could be here Mon thru Fri & 'cause everything they teach you at those seminars are, is that you, you know, until you get away from the clerk time, scheduling & the part-time parks, go with full-time & the parks dept is gonna suffer.  & again, ____________________. 


Um & as far as Ms Fowler being removed, I will make a statemt on that, &  I've said this before.  I had no idea bein' part of the Parks Dept as a citizen member, I remember when we created a assistant parks person & I think it was given to the  bd.  I've sat out in the audience.  The bd voted to give it to Joyce Praecter & it paid $200/mo.  I'm tellin' you until just recently, I was shocked to find out that one of the last administration appointed a new assistant parks.  I just assumed it went in & like probably a lot of the other bd members did, under what was originally approved.  I was a little shocked that it was, wasn't bein' done that way & that's the way I assumed it was & that's what I thought we voted for, but uh immediately now I find out from your letter that it wasn't.


DM: Want you to check the ord on that. The parks uh sec'y, I thought it was at one time $200.  Like I say, now it's been removed, $200 from there.   I thought the $13/hr was still in there _________ JB says even before the flooding alert came, he needed some help refiling some of the items downstairs  __________going through them, ________lot of work to be done to try to get that for that $13/hr position _________ appropriate money in there for the uh, get somebody, a coop student from the school work to help assist JB & also Mrs. Helton back there ________________ some of the other people up there _______ various things. I think we'll catch up.


BL: I would support that also.  I think I told you that. The other item I had was the asking for a levee audit.  I don't think there's anything wrong with it.  I don't believe we need that.  I was concerned about the cost at this time, but if we put it out for bid, if we could get a full levee audit, let us know where we stand & if we're wasting money, or we could make some improvemts & I would support that. 


But the biggest thing is, I keep hearing how we haven't worked with you & you haven't had a lot of time.  Um this is the 20th, which I mean, I guess you've been in office a little over a mo.  Um, we're still working thru some issues on both sides. Um it was the same when I sat here when, when Fred was sworn in & I think when I sat out in the audience when Danny came in, if I remember right, it wasn't that smooth.  & clear back to Harrington, when I used to come to an occasional mtg, it was not always a smooth sail, where everybody agreed with everything the mayor wanted to do.  Um, I'll work with you & support you within reason, if we could come to some kind of understanding with some of these statemts & these comments.


Back to this one article that went in the paper about, about myself, the other thing that was in here, was all the things that you had mentioned that you put into Leg.  Now I don't want to contradict a city official that does no wrong, especially not a mayor.  Only item to-date has entered the Leg Cmte where you've come to me & put in my cmte, was the item, & I immediately put it in there, even called & set the mtg where I knew you could be there, was the, which you didn't make, I'm sure something else came up.  But it was the Sacred Heart Sports Complex uh contract of the use of the fields.  & I immediately, when you asked me to put that in there, I put it in there & I even had a notice sent to the ________ Sacred Heart that came.  We discussed it & voted on it, but I mean none of these other items that ended up in the paper, I, I don't know anything about 'em.  You never handed me a list.  You never covered in the mtgs.  I've checked the mins.  I don't have those items.  I'd be glad to look into 'em, but I just wish, if we're gonna be making comments to the press, or we're gonna be putting statements in & letters, we do it a bit more professional.  DM: Tku, BL.  Any other q/c? 


RS: __________.  I'd like to make one thing clear. The mayor doesn't make the decisions for all the Bd members __________________.  We were elected & we make our own decisions.  We don't need the mayor to ______________.  We'll support you any way we can, (someone coughs) _______.  We've got the right to make those decisions.


5/20/02 BOA  - Section 5 of 9


DM: _____.  If I could, for the uh opening, er public speakers, I asked Mr. Cusack to speak first 'cause I know he has probably some comments about the procedure during the flood.  Mr. Cusack could you briefly go over like when the weather station first predicted 31', what we ___________. 


DC: Does anybody have any questions on the levee, on the flood this time?  DA: YH, at this point & comment, I'd like to commend, you know, yourself & especially Mr. Cusack um ______________ city (someone coughs) for their work in getting prepared & the residents of the floodplain were extremely prepared um, should this flood have developed.  _______ ______________ Tku for that. 


DC: Well, the first thing that we had that, on the uh, 8th of May, from the Weather Bureau, we uh received a thing that we were gonna have a flood at 21.3 & uh, on 5/9, the projected crest from the Nat'l Weather Svc, was at 31' & then the mayor & I & the uh flood work director got together & decided that we'd send out a letter.  The Public Works people would uh start moving their equipment & get into the safe ground & keep ____ down here that we sent the letter out.  & then we proceeded to uh move the basement to the first floor in the city hall.  That included the police dept, uh the uh cmty dev dir & the uh parks.  & we moved everything from up here on the first floor.  It was hired help & we brought it all up here.  Uh the next uh day, on the 5/10, we received a uh thing that the levee was going to crest at 27-2.  Uh at the same day, we received a thing, it was gonna uh crest at 27', which made it right around 420 which could've put water on, in some of the areas in VP.  So we were still under this & on 5/11, we received a uh thing from the Weather Burearu that it would crest at 26-7.


Uh, & probably all you know that it crested at 24'.  So from the 9th until the 12th, which is 3 days, the Weather Bureau missed this uh crest thing by approximately 14'.  Now if it would've been 14' the other way, we could've really been in trouble.  Uh I can only say from looking at all the charts & everything that what I have here, that uh we, we went thru 2 wks of up & down, up & down & not really knowing what the river was gonna do, where it was gonna be, how uh when we should move or anything like that.  So, uh I apologize.  I put out this letter & I apologized to people because I thought it was going to 31'.  I think everybody prepared for 31', which is good.  It was good for the City of VP because we learned a lot that we didn't know in 10 yrs, where to put equipmt, what things we needed & everything else.  Great coop from all the city help, really great.  Everything worked really smooth, everything was great, uh & uh, if anybody has any comments, I'll try to -


RS:  I'd like to just say, I appreciate the letter that was sent out to the city, but I think for the most part, what I've seen in my ward, that the majority of the residents were already packin' up.  We had already watched the weather & they already knew that it was gonna go 31.  So anybody that's blamed it on the city, for predicting 31, you know, the city's following procedure & that's what the ____ says it's gonna do.  & I think for the most part, you know, people watch the weather.  Nobody knows what it's gonna do.  Um, I had no idea what it was gonna do.  I know 31' would've put it in my house, but that's what the Weather Bureau was sayin'.  ________ ________ .  I figured get a jump on it, you know, why wait around.


DC: Last night, as example, last night they predicted that it would go to 26-5 & it actually went to 22-9.  DM: I recall, when you, JM & I were down (coughing), it  was 27 for a while - DC: Yeah, it was 27 for a while & then it - DM: 4' in a 12-hr period.  DC: & you know, this is the, what we have to go by is the Nat'l Weather Svc, what they're flood predictions are.  RC: Uh, uh, yes, uh, I, DC, uh I would like to ask you to consider, ___________ go with a motion _______ to uh have all those who participated, uh receive letters of appreciation for their efforts & that they go into their uh folders for uh future raises ________. Perhaps you & DC could get together & _________________.


AP Mr. Schmerold:  Is it appropriate to ask questions?  (?: sure) I watched the Weather Service website throughout the day trying to figure out what was going on.  The thing that really bugged me, it seemed like it could be 10 hrs _________updates.  Eureka would get a 3-hr read update.  I mean is that a - DC: Well, sir, you have to understand one thing.  MrS: I'm not looking to blame anybody!  But I'm just wondering what - DC: We have a system here & the Nat'l Weather Svc, for yrs, paid the city marshal to read the guage on the Meramec River, that's off of the east bridge.  Uh supposedly they read it once or twice a day.  Uh he does not inform anybody.  He still does this;  he's not the marshal, but he's hired by the National Weather & he still reads it. 


He doesn't let anybody know except the Nat'l Weather Bureau & then they get this at about 6:00 in the morning, & then they put it on their webpages.  Sometime in the afternoon, I understand he reads it again, or they take & run the model, what they call the model, which takes into consideration water from up above, rain that we have that day & all things, which I don't really know how these fellas do it, but they do it.  & they come up with a elevation that's unsafe.  This is the flood stage or a forecrested stage.  You don't get that that day. You get it in the morning if you're on the webpage, on that website & we come here & get that.  Then we know what the reading was that morning;  that's the only way we know what that is.  The one that's in the paper, is a day late.  It's always Saturday, Saturday is a Sunday is Saturday's reading.  So it's a day late.   We have no communication other than the Nat'l Weather Svc.  This fella who reads it, does not communicate with anybody here in town.  He doesn't communicate with the mayor, myself, the police dept or anything about, hey at 6:00 this morning, the river was 21'.  You can judge whatever you want.  He just gives it to the weather svc & then if you listen to the weather, maybe they put it on the television, but if you have a computer, maybe you can bring it up; that's the only way.  We don't have any -


MrS: Do you have any way of negotiating with the weather svc where our police could go down there & check it when it's - DC: No, sir. We do not check it any more, only when the weather bureau, the weather svc, they, when they built the new bridge, they felt that it was unsafe for this man to go up there & read the guage.  So they put one on a boat ramp that we have down on the river in the Meramec Park.  & uh, that's where the guage is read until a certain time, till what they call 22' on the guage & the water comes over River Dr & they can't get down there to read it.  Then they request a policeman to go up & uh let this man read it off the bridge again.  We are in the process right now & I think it probably will be in the very near future, that we'll have an automated guage that we will be able to put on the computer & read it every review.  If you want to read it every 5 mins, you can read it every 5 mins & tell whether the river is goin' up & down & whatever it is.  But this is still -


MrS: This is one of these deals where I was up in O'Fallon taking care of someone's server & it's raining cats & dogs, & I wondered if the store was flooded or not.  DC: Well, it, it, it, the, the model that they run, I would say, I worked for the COE for yrs.  & I've seen these fellas put on these models & build them whatever it is, & it's not a perfect system, but they put a lot of factors in there & they usually come out with a pretty close thing.  I don't know what the weather svc did this time, how they missed these predictions all the way up & down the line, but it was not, it was not to, it was to the city's advantage that they missed 'em, but they shouldn't have.  I mean they should be closer than what they are, within a foot, I would say, & not miss it by 3, 4 or 5' because you know, 4' could mean a lot.  If you're at 420 & you miss it by 4', you're 424 & you're standing with about 2' of water in your house & you're sayin' well, people, you don't have to move at 420, but there you got water in your house at 424. 


RS:  I would just like to congratulate the mayor for being around & having city hall, city hall open _____________________________ a lot of times when ______________________concerned about the water & you did help out _________ .  So I appreciated that.  DM: It was quite a learning experience for me as well as the city.  I was _____________.  So appreciate everyone here in the office & everyone ___________ ______________.  RH: Just brief, I don't know if Dave really answered this question.  Say, since the back side of the levee is up, how can you, have you learned anything, like say if you was to take 20 or so many feet to come over, but I understand you____________ backwater.  I mean the creek's backed up now, is what I'm tryin' to - has the existing levee, is what I'm tryin' to say, made any difference in the COE's predictions that you've noticed, or does it still take -


DC: I, I, Randy, I  couldn't really tell you.  I mean I don't know. I mean it - RH: Maybe like over it got like Donny's, you know what I'm sayin', guys that've been around here for the city for yrs.  DC: I really don't know if they, you know, that's a good question.  Maybe there is some reason that the river didn't go like it was, but it just didn't.  I, I don't think that was really, had really much to do with it.  The creek was always had a, a, a levee on the back side over at Grand Glaize.  Fishpot uh, it could've because of the fact is uh, in 93 & I guess 94, we did have the levee there, but uh I don't think it was, it was quite completed yet at that time.  So maybe if by raising the road, Vance Rd somewhat, uh maybe helped in that.  But uh, uh, I, I just think that, I, I think there was some, some maybe miscalculation of water flow goin' into the river where it was comin' from & how fast it was goin', because you know, they said it was.  We, we talked last night here, we were sittin' Sunday, we thought the river was goin' down & then all of a sudden they were predictin', you know we had a lot of rain, but you would think after 72 hrs, that we would have most of the water from up above, here in the City of VP by that time.  & as it worked out, we did have most of the water in the City of VP at that time, but they were sayin' that we were gonna get a lot more. 


RS: Um, my feelings, I guess the time that me & Dan & McMullen had spent on the levee - cut off by RH: Hope you guys kept the file _____ ________.  RS:  With, with the little bit of time that we spent on the levee, uh from what I have recognized, I think _______ might agree, um before, the water used to come in thru I guess 10th & Leonard, & 10th & Vest, & these 2 past or 3 times that the waters came up, that levee has protected that where that doesn't flood.  Normally, that's the 1st area that gets flooded & it didn't even come close.  Um & I felt the same thing at um I guess you could say 3rd St & Leonard.  Normally, that's another low area & it creeps down in thru the woods & normally fills in that little area & it never ever come close.  ___________ protected it, so I believe that the waters gonna have to go at least probably 28, 29' before it __________ .  So it has protected. 


DC: Well, ______ on St. Louis Ave, we have sill elevation when we'll close, actually close the gate & everything like that.  The sill elevation at the uh, uh St. Louis Ave, is 4-19-6.  So, that, well 419 would be oh, about 26-1/2.  It could've creeped in, I mean you know, but uh it - RS: My point was it's still gotta come thru that gate in order to get - DC: & again, there, there's storm, when we built St. Louis Ave for 3A & 3B ____, we did a lot of stormwater, changed a lot of stormwater.  So the water that comes up, even tho we don't have the gate shut or anything, the levee finished, some of that stormwater that comes thru that gate will go into the drains down there on 10th St & along that levee, uh on the _____ west side of the levee if it comes under the thing & go in the detention pool because it's connected with a 48" pipe.  It would take an awful lot of water into that detention pool, but uh we haven't seen that happen yet.  So we didn't get to 419 & maybe you know it, it would help if it would, even without the, the other part of 4B done.   DM: Tku, DC.   RC: YH, can we just take care of those letters at your discretion?  DM:_______.  RC: You got ______. Tku.  DM: John Schmerold. Please spell your name for the record.  (he does)


5/20/02 BOA  - Section 6 of 9


MrS:  At our last, I'm a member & been a member of the Valley Park Business Owners Assn.  At our last mtg, we decided it would be a good idea to have a half dozen of us volunteer to, have one of us at every Bd Mtg.  Inevitably, in every bus owners' assn, we're like, 'well what's goin' on in VP, what are the powers that be, what are the fathers thinking, what's happening next?'.  & uh, if we're not here, it just becomes a bunch of hearsay.  I mean that's why we decided that it'd just make a lot of sense to have a bus owners assn member present & you know, hopefully to work together.  We ___ like a lot of the things that we're seeing in VP.  There have been some ordinances this yr that have been positive for business. I had some business before VP that, overall, is going reasonably well.  Uh you know, you always, everyone always exchanges things about favoritism.  It's that old definition of favoritism.  Favoritism is when the other guy gets something you don't get.  So you know, I think you know, hopefully you know, we'll all work together & business owners obviously are hoping that things work out well in VP, the levee gets done quickly, etc. That's it. 


DM: Mr. John Beard.  MrB: My name is John Beard.  I'm not too familiar with what's goin' on with the city.  I talked to Mr. Cusack the other day, got the levee finished down at Marshall, the 27th railroad, on the north side.  I got a theory that, why can't the city come in, put sandbags down Marshall, protect the whole lower end over here.  One building would cost more than what it costs to build a levee down thru there.  Mr. Cusack said well we got drainage goin' out thata way.  They got backhoes to dig the drainage up.  They could be blocked too.  I think if the city would get with someone & see what they could do because we're payin' big insurance & people are movin' out because the water's gonna be 31'.  I mean why move out?  Why not put sandbags up the lower end because when it floods, it comes in this way.  There's nothin' comin' this way, so all we have to do is sandbag here.  Crystal City could do it, so why couldn't VP?  That's all I got to say.  DM: Tku, Mr. Beard.  Maureen Morris. 


MM: My name is Maureen Morris.  I own #8 Arnold Dr. & I just wanted to say that um I transcribed the TIF Public Hearing & also the 4/15/02 Bd Mtg & I want this to be made part of the City's Journal.  Ok?  That's all.  (I gave DM copies of my 17-page 4/11/02 TIF/ARP Public Hearing transcript & a 10-page, 4/15/02 Bd Mtg transcript.  DM & EM looked at them & mumbled. I heard EM say, it's not official.)  MM: It's not official, but it'll be part of the City's Journal.  DM: I'll submit it as your submittal.  MM: Tku.  JW: YH, Could I ask a question to her?  Did you find a lot of discrepancies from our mins to your mins?  Is that the reason why you - MM: No, I didn't, I haven't seen your mins.  I've tried to get 'em, but to no avail so far.  JW: Who wouldn't  give 'em to you?  MM: Um, I asked Cassie & Terry & uh Roxanne & they gave me a copy of the Amended Redev Plan & told me I could get the levee mins at the library.  When I went over there & checked with Judy, we couldn't find any, so I came back & I talked to Pat.  He was gonna talk with EM & call me back, but he didn't.  So I still have to follow-up.  JW: I hope you get a set of 'em from our Mr. Pillows.  MM: I would like to see 'em. My purpose in submitting it is to bring up property rights issues. (audience mumbling)


DM: Next, the mins of the VP Mtg 5/6.  What's the Bd's pleasure?  (someone moves & someone 2nds)  JW: Uh yes YH, I will be voting against this because I think the mins are vague & a disgrace to the city & brings up individuals speaking from the audience, like Mr. McCabe, but it doesn't say one word of what he talked about.  I guess maybe it was too negative or what the logic was, but how could you ever go back & research anything that had...  (exchange tapes)  JW: ...the mins.  Maybe there's a reason.  Maybe Mr.Martin has instructed him not to; I don't know.


DM: Any other q/c?  RH: Just one basically.  It was, you voted, you voted & you voted right, & the rest of us voted wrong.  ________.  JW: You oughta put it in the mins then, if somebody voted wrong.  RH: ________ .  DM: Ok, I think we're ready to vote on the mins then.  All in favor say aye.  (some or all do)  All opposed. (only one heard) JW: aye.  (DM & EM mumble.)


EM: Could I make a real quick request for an addition to it?  Where we're down & it says ah after the 2nd reading of Bill 1681, DA made a motion to approve Bill 1681.  & this is my fault; uh I, I didn't go over these mins &, & the clerk _________ .  Um, we need to stick in Bill 1681 was read on its first reading.  A motion for approval was made by DA & 2nd'd by RC, roll call (tongue-tied), ROLL CALL vote had ____.  DM:  Maker of the motion, DA, agree?  DA:  Yes.  DM: 2nd agree?  RC:  That's fine.  DM: So the mins as amended, roll call vote please. -  Yes: BL, RC, DA, RS, RH.  No: JW. (can't hear TB's vote) - DM: motion passes, 6, I guess ____.  JW: Just a point for clarification.  Do you want, uh like RC used to pass down, documentation of why he uh protested the bills & everything else, or, or is the city clerk going to make notes of the mins why somebody is opposed to anything.  DM: It's your option if you want something in the Journal, I'll allow you to pass something down while you vote.  JW: Tku. 


DM: Mtg reports, Leg Cmte, mtg of Mon, 5/13.  Before we get into mins, I'd like to apologize.  I was getting uh mtg, er_______ questions  _________ ___________.  I apologize for _______________________.  BL on Leg mins _______________________ .  BL: Um, move approval, YH.  DM: Any q/c?   JW: I have one, YH.  Is this the uh BL's mtg stuff ?  DM: Yes it is, mtg of the (someone coughs) ______.  JW: Is this to approve all items?  Or I'd like to hear an explanation why they want to be removed from the uh Municipal League for one thing.  BL: Yes, YH, I move to approve all items of the Leg Mtg Mon, 5/13/02.  Um as passed by the cmte, & additional ald present.  DM: I guess he asked for the reason for uh the city withdrawing from the St L County Municipal League. _______________.  BL: I, I (was or wasn't?)  here on that item.  I, again, I was just the chairman of these items of my Leg Cmte are usually put there by other people.  Um, I basically run the mtg & ________ discussion & I would yield the floor to the sitting ald. 


RC: I, I'll speak for him, YH.  Uh I think that uh we brought into uh a lot of uh controversy here on these items.  Once again uh, the second-hand uh St. L County Municipal League said, & I don't believe they're, like we just talked about earlier, I don't think they are wanting to act as uh, uh a tool for anybody to do anything to another person.  I don't think that's ever been their stand & uh, I felt that uh I'm, I'm supporting the approval because I feel that in order for us to begin to work together in consensus decision, there's another way to get a second opinion on it, besides calling & sort of blind-siding someone at mtgs by saying it's a, it's you know, somebody from Municipal League said.  So I'm not suggesting that we go get a second opinion on this.  I'm suggesting that we, we quit using the St L County Munic League for what they don't want to be used for because I don't think anybody over there would say that's what they do.  Uh & if that, I believe that just a little bit of space & a little bit of time, that we can uh maybe we can reconsider.  Like I spoke to uh the mayor the other night on the phone.  Uh there's no reason that they can't after this action is taken, come & speak to the bd & uh reassure & perhaps put some things at ease & perhaps maybe we can reconsider what we've done.  But at this point, uh I don't think anyone up here wants to have that ghost of a second-chair lawyer giving a second-hand, third-hand info.  We don't need, we can get a second opinion in another way.  So I, I just want to clear the air. 


JW: Uh the city uses this tool for many, many yrs & a lot of neighboring cities. I've met uh 99% of 'em in St. L County, all along this & uh gettin' letters thru the mail, newsletters, updates & what some of the other cities are doin' & new ideals. I don't know why anybody'd want to throw this tool away. If somebody's calling up how to get rid of somebody, no that's not proper, but I would think that it's another tool of knowledge.  I'd hope everybody'd use it, & a lot of these ald have attended educational functions that this place sponsored.  Now you don't want to go? 


DM: I have attended several mtgs.  I went just last month, the mtg up at Vinita Pk.  There's an outgoing pres, Jim Rivera was mayor of Vinita Park, good info & general things.  Maybe I've overplaced their _____ just trying to offer different view on things.  I apologize for have to kind of _____ & trying to represent that as legal advice _________________one of the things.  In general, I think it's been helpful, but I just wish the bd _____ _______________________________ .  


RC: Uh, I've never attended anything by the St Louis County Munic League.  I have attended the MO Munic League, but that's not the same  DM: I realize that.  RC: There are 2 different organizations.  They're the teaching & the training & the uh info in a neutral fashion______.  I, I wouldn't suggest that, these aren't the same.  DM:  The county sometimes keeps us, because sometimes there's laws that only apply to St L County, but not the rest of the state.  The state sometimes singles out, say the transportation taxes for instance, various things ___________ St. Louis County.  But if we don't, maybe getting out for a while, if perhaps, if that's the bd's wish is, _______________ .  Any other q/c?


RS: I'm just curious, how much does this cost?  DM: I don't know how much it is.  RS: I guess my next ques is, how many bd members sittin' here use it, including the mayor?   JW:  I've attended mtgs is all.  DM: I've attended ___________.  RS: That puts just 2 in there, including the mayor.  DM: Hopefully if we get back in, more of us, assuming this motion passes, that more of us will go in the future.  _____ rejoin it, assuming this fails, that more members go to see what's available there. 


RS: No, my theory was that, I felt that I didn't think anybody was really usin' it, you know.  I know we attended one at Lake of the Ozarks & I believe that was the MO one, right?  Uh, I've never attended this one.  I kind of feel that if we're not gonna use it, then why have it?  You know?  Just because one person's usin' it, doesn't mean we need to keep it running & pay that kind of money for it. I hear it's pretty expensive.  DM: April of last yr, BL, yourself & I all attended ______elected officials ________was put on by  St L County, but if we feel we're not getting our money's worth, then - RS: Out of all, out of all _________, 3 of us went.  & even when Mayor Palmer was here, I don't think he even really cared to get ____________.  DM: So that he could avail himself, I would hope - (cut off by) RS: I'm just sayin', even him, he didn't use it last yr or so.  My feelings are that you know, if it's not being used, enough to pay for it, I mean - DM: Perhaps you could say that about a computer.  Perhaps if you didn't use computers, maybe you could, I'm not sayin' any person that uses computers, isn't the tool's fault or if we're not getting any use out of the tool, then we - RS: It's not being used it seems like, so ________. 

TB:  Yes, YH __________________________________________ ________________. 


JW:  A good example is Mr. Martin just corrected on the mins & uh, say we had a disagreemt & I said I don't believe I ever heard that.  How would you ever clarify it?  Then if this is alright to uh city clerk, it would make his word the gospel, & uh you have no way of ever verifying anybody on anything.   & if you said something you wasn't supposed to.  I guess that'd be a good way of never, ever getting' caught!  Like if you said something stupid & didn't want anybody to hear it!  DM: Any other q/c? 


DA: Yes, YH, first on the um St. L County Munic League, I have a suggestion you may have to use.  If you would at some point in time, like to use this tool, um as part of the budget process, have a representative on that group attend one of those mtgs & explain the benefits that we would get from it.  Uh & we could weigh the benefits to the cost & see if it's something we'd like to start using.  Uh, on the tape recording again, when, however you want, that didn't come from a uh suggestion from the Mo Munic League.  Um they suggested that you not record the mins, or if you do record those, immediately write the mins & dispose of the uh recording.  That was a uh recommendation um from the time, president of that assoc, uh that group on Kevin O'Keefe.  That was based on good logic by the MO Munic League.  (MM, engrossed in the subject, blurts out: why? - no answer)


 DA: & the next item on, on this mins, Item 1,  _______understand an issue with that now & I believe the uh the petition that we have, said that we hold that.  DM: Yes he did, you're correct on that.  DA: So & that's my comment on that.  DM: I guess what I'd like to do is go ahead approve that item in the Leg mins, but we'll hold the ord over if that's ok with, DA.  Any other q/c? 


BL: Um, yeah, I _______ how disappointing that was 'cause ___ .  I'm like you, I thought we used that tool a little more than I should've.  Sometimes I need to prove what they say was said.  Which is fine, ___________ _______, but I more or less, I have almost always called, I apologize, but I didn't realize there were 2 separate utilities, until the last few months.  I always ended up calling Jefferson City until one day, one of the guys that I kind of got to know & asked a few questions to, I figured I could suggest it, he said, well you know there is a St L Munic League.  Are you guys members?  ____________________________ .  So I have attended one of the mtgs, conferences, the state & I have the local.  Um, but again I would reconsider if this passes & we elect out of both of 'em __________ conflicting statements & the guy didn't want to be quoted as his name.  But I guess St. Louis Municipal League at different times has protected themselves from controversial issues & confidence interests which I guess probably the State organization has too, but he didn't tell me that.  But anyway, I would support it if it __________________________ ____________ .


Um, as far as the tape recordings, I also had heard that from another individual in part of the conference, that the reason that a lot of the cities aren't doin' that now, that the mins that the clerk keeps are the official record.  I'm sure there are a lot of cities that do take ________________ _____ one of the reasons I also support that.  DM: Anyone else first time around? 


JW:  Would it be legal then, if they uh vote to do away with recordings, can an ald set up here & record the mtgs?  Maureen does it all the time.  I guess I can just use hers.  But can I bring a recorder in here & still record mtgs?  Long as it's not Executive Session;  I know I can't record that, but I believe I have the right to record anything that's said in this room.  EM: The, the only official record of proceedings of the city are the City Journal which is approved by this Bd.  Um anything else, sure you can tape record it um, but again, that's not an official record.  The only official record, by statute, is the minutes OR the Journal for the city as adopted by this Bd.  JW:  If I went to court tho, & the city had mins & I had a tape recording contradicting that, which way would a judge go?  EM:  I think he'd follow the state statute. 


RC: Uh this is just a question I want clear in my own mind.  If the only thing required in the Journal is the motion & the motion-maker, then how do you get a second I'm wondering, & the actual outcome of the voice vote & is the voice vote, it's __ the actual #'s, it's a roll call ___________ . 

That was the Sunshine Law or state's?  Perhaps you could get some clarification on that?  What I'm getting at is that the idea of just simply taking mins, uh it, it what, what it seems to be getting mixed up here is that if the people want a transcription, which was never done in the City of VP anyway.  A transcription is everything, the cost & whatever else.  But what I'm getting at is, what we have is simply on a sort of a balance between a transcription & what the mayor, mayor (____) & I think that it would eliminate an enormous of, of a biased in the writing if we just make, we just kind of cut it down some & we don't need the tape to get those items out. 


DM: As I recall, the state, anyway they, the motion & the 2nd, Ald Smith moved, Ald Jones 2nd, & discussion ensued, the final vote 5, 3, or whatever his vote was, nutshell on the vote -  RC: I'm saying, it's not like we're trying to do something that isn't already been given guidelines.  We're probably just coming more into compliance.  & while I don't want anyone to think that there's a, a Red Herring here or something, I mean I think it's, it's we just need to get on with business &, & quit, quit the commentary.  DM: Tku, RC. Any other q/c?  All in favor of Leg Mtg mins of uh 5/13 -  Vote & roll call: Yes: RH, RS, DA, RC, BL.   No: TB, JW.   DM:  Mins passed, 5 yes, 2 no.


5/20/02 BOA  - Section 7 of 9


DM:  Levee Cmsn Report, Mr. Cusack. Comments on the uh Mr. Weis thing with the county, our engineering firm is Tom Weis, PH Weis, to get the uh project continue the project on the sidewalk on the north side of  Vance Rd.  I talked to him briefly before the mtg  in an attempt to not have him wait longer, then charge us for the wait.  He said we need to submit one updated form of, showing basically the entrance off of Vance Rd onto the sidewalk.  Once we get that, then the county will issue us a permit to continue the sidewalk, the portion that the county or rather the  VP City will be building under the direction of JM.  Gonna be a 2nd phase of the, of the 2 parts, er actually 1 phase, 2nd & 3rd phase, actually pulling out the bids & have the bridge put in across Fishpot Creek, a pedestrian bridge, which something I think is gonna be a big boom to the city so students going to school in the morning or families in general, whoever wants to enjoy the area of the county or want to come down & go by the school & different areas, cross that creek which people might well have known as the stone bridge that allows virtually no shoulder .  It will be a big plus for the city. I'm glad to see this underway.


BL: I'm sorry, the, the road entrance from Vance, where would that be at?  DM: The uh road cut that Mr. James asked for it's to show the engineers the curb into the entrance.  BL: ________________________?  DM: Well this is opposite uh West____ Subdivision, so it's down on the other side  ___________________, but that's a good question __________________.  Any other q/c?  Ordinances. Bill 1682, we'll hold that over.


Resolution 52002, motion for approval. RC: I'll move in that direction.   DM: Resolution, I mean I'm sorry, Resolution of intent regarding private redevelopmt proposals at Arnold's Grove subdivision in VP, MO.  RC: I'll move in that direction.  DA: Second.  DM: q/c?   JW: I know this is just a resolution, but uh wouldn't this damper somebody who did want to sell or something?  I mean aren't we dictating what some of the businesses can do down there?  I think I understand this, as somebody explained it, that this is designed to protect  businesses down there, but could it harm them?  As Eric said, I think told you, a resolution isn't an ordinance, so it really doesn't mean much.


EM: I don't know how this could hurt somebody, JW.  I, I don't, I don't know.  It was designed I think to protect the prop owners that are in that area.  DM: I guess, would this be transferable?  Say Mr. Catanzaro for instance, or anyone who owns prop down there, if they wanted to sell to somebody else, would this, this is just a resolution, would the new owner then feel like they have some protection? Maybe that would be - EM: Sure, I would think, I, I would think so.  It's, it's just a statement of intent by bd ald saying we don't want private development proposals.  They won't consider them until the levee's in.   I don't see how that would hurt any prop owner unless it would be a developer owner. 


DA: If I could, let me shed a little light on this. This resolution was born from the uh, the mtg that myself, RC, EM & Mayor Michel attended, at the request of um the VP, uh the Pres of VP Bus Assn.   &  the intent was, at some point in time, it would appear that the City of VP, under authority of the levee, was going to uh take this prop, um develop it to a third party without the consent of the prop owners.  & this letter is just a good faith statement saying that that's not how we're going to operate.  We're going to include you in.  It doesn't um stop, you know, the uh ability to develop this prop.  What it says is, it will be developed with the cooperation of the uh the owners of that & not take it by the City of VP.  That's the, that's the full intent of this uh motion. It doesn't really change anything other than we're saying the statement, we're not going to operate in that fashion.  DM: Tku, DA.  q/c? 


RC: Just one real fast, YH. This, this resolution doesn't mean that, that it's going to, to allow anyone there to slow the progress of the levee either.  It, it simply means that if, if something's in the footprint, then the proper course be taken, but if something isn't in the footprint, then there's no reason to penalize these people because they happen to have a business that's gonna be worth a lot of money after the levee's done.  But it's, it's an attempt to, it's, it's a good faith.  Uh let's work with the businesses.  Let's make them a part, you know & let's let them run their own life, instead of us trying to help them. 


JW: Now that they've explained, I support the resolution, but my question is now, now that we've changed the past practice of the bd, we've got 2 aldermen meetin' with EM. He charged us for drawing this resolution up.  He charged us for time down there;  & these guys would've strung everybody up by the neck if they'd have did that in the previous administration.  That's not the proper procedure. You bring it to the bd or the cmte level & pass it there, the bd approves EM to draft these things up.  & now we got aldermen callin'.  Can I call tomorrow & get one drafted?  I need to know the procedure because this has happened 2 or 3 mtgs in a row now. RC: YH, may I respond?   JW: I don't think you're the mayor.  I was asking the mayor. 


DM: Alright!  I guess we don't have a procedure, so if RC can propose one, maybe that would help us because one of the things is to get a cap on legal fees, is what the bd's wished in the past.  ____________. RC: Perhaps we could talk about this at the bill stage, which is where the objection seems to be versus at this resolution stage.  In other words, it seems to be more of a problem with the resolution.  The resolution seems to be the problem rather than paying it without __________ .  So could we eliminate the one from the other & get to it & have a, a rousing discussion about it there?


DM: We got the bills all out & this will be brought up again. Hopefully we'll get a procedure in place, so the bills, we'll be watching the taxpayers' money, so we're all here.  TB: Were all the prop owners asked to attend this mtg?  DM: I walked in late on the meeting because I happened to notice the cars there & I was concerned as much just to see what fees were being spent to the city. So DA & RC could shed some light on who ______.


DA: Let me go back to this. It was a request from the Pres of the Business Assn.  Um I, being an alderman from that ward, why he spoke to me, I'm not sure, & RC, why he was selected, I'm not sure, but his intent was, uh there was a bad relationship between the Bus. Assn, those prop owners in Arnold's Grove or Arnold's Landing & the city atty, & that was his desire to end that & begin to work & you know, with the bd with the city, & for whatever reason chose me to mediate that.  And I think, whether the absence of procedure, that is a different subject & I hope the mayor might have that put in the Leg Cmte, or Finance Ways, or whichever cmte.


However, the brood of that was we've got a better relationship with the bd & I had a real hard time saying no to, um you know, that request, & I hope the majority of the bd would understand the benefit gained from that & would support this.  I think that's what I'm hearing is gonna happen tonight.  & again I think the lack of procedure may have been.  But then it was a positive meeting, but no harm or malcontent to anybody, um contentment.  & that's the jist of it & again, I was asked to mediate the citizens & I think it was successful & it will continue from that meeting.  Though I will say there was a number of requests made that the mayor, at some point in time, attend with the city atty again before the full bd, of the Business Assn.  & I think that's in, you know, a month & I think I've explained it in a nutshell.  DM: Tku. Basically, it sounds like it was just at the direction of the Business Assn Pres & you relayed this information on to me.  Any other ques/cmts on resolution?  (Roll call. Yes: BL, RC, JW, DA, RS.  No: TB & RH.)  DM: Resolution passes.  (!J!)


Resolution 5-20-02A, a resolution expressing intent of the City of VP to currently issue bonds in the amt of not > $3.5M for this cost of issuance, capitalized interest, proceeds of which will be used to finance a portion of the construction of the VP levee & infrastructure program & further authorizing actions from later thereto.  RS: Motion to approve.  DM: RS. 2nd,  DA . q/c?   JW: Far as procedure, is there a reason why Mr. Pillows doesn't read these?  I know you have to go to your glasses all the time & he's prepared.  DM: I don't know if there's a set procedure on that;  not taking anything away from PP.  I was just doing that as __________ .  JW: I just never heard the mayor read them before & just thought maybe, it's your choice.  If it is, that's fine.  DM: It was my choice. Caught in the heat of the moment, I started reading it. (they chuckle) q/c?   JW: Just trying to shed some weight off of you, but if you like reading them.


RC: Is this, uh once the document is actually completed, will there be, each alderman receive a secondary page item?  I know that some of the items can't be filled out in, in, ah the document, the bonding document is what I'm talking about.  DM: See that placed in the next packet?  RC: No, I think it's something that can't be created until this is done. There may be uh a legal deal on that.  I, I'd just like to know if that's going to be available?   EM: Russ, uh I, I'm sorry, um I think specifically, what this, this is called the Inducement Resolution.  RC: Okay, so that isn't the one where it talks about the tables & all that type of - EM: There will be a P.O.S., Preliminary Official Statement, (someone chuckles) that will be circulated June 16th & I'll make sure everybody has that, as well as the introducement.


DA: Mr. Martin, on that particular item, after the bonds have been sold, there's a formal agreement that will need to be signed by the mayor & entire Bd Ald, is that not correct?  EM: That's right.  We tentatively set a special mtg for 7/16  & then this is basically, this is, people that are working on the bond issue right now.  We haven't got the schedule, but that's what we're shooting for.  DM: q/c?  All in favor of the uh resolution, signify by saying aye (some or all do), all opposed (none heard).


5/20/02 Bd Ald - Section 8 of 9 


DA: YH, I'd ask that Bill 1682 be tabled until the next Bd Ald Mtg.  RC: I'll move in that direction, YH.  DM: q/c on table motion?   JW: I'd just like ask the maker of the motion, the logic uh behind it.  DA:  Again, there was an agreemt that the cmte requested a copy of, of the actual prop owner. Um that was not provided at this time & the petitioner um asked that we hold this until that place, knowing that there would be um a lot of construction questions.  So after that comes fwd, we can consider it.  DM: q/c on the motion to table Bill 1680, er yeah 1682?  All in favor say aye (some or all do). All opposed (none heard). 


Mayor's Report. First I'd  like to appoint Roxanne Rupple who started working office clerk, as the assistant court clerk, if I could get a motion on that please.  JW: move approval. (?:  2nd)  JW: Discussion, YH.  I got out the city clerk job description & it says that uh he's going to perform these duties.  Is there, I don't have a problem with this young lady doing this.  It's just that is there a reason why the city clerk doesn't do it any more?  Because if you read his job description, it's in there.  He's gonna get paid; I mean he's not doin' it for nothin'.  He's getting' whatever the pay is, $100 a night or whatever, but if you get his current job description out, it is in there.


DM: It was passed by resolution last yr, the job description did say, the city clerk would be assistant court clerk.  I looked at the city ordinance & it did not talk about who would be the assistant court clerk.  & since Miss Rupple did agree to take on the task & she seems to work well in the office, not that PP doesn't, but he's got his plate full with what he's doing right now.  He's done a good job, work with everything, work all the different tasks of the city clerk, but since she agreed to take it on, that's the reason I went ahead & _________.


(DM says "Ald Stuart", but it's)  DA: I think we should table this till the next mtg if I can get a 2nd.  I've never officially met this individual & also I would like to repeat this job description that  JW ______ &  table just until the next bd mtg.  DM: _________________________  RS: I notice JW apparently doesn't know what the job description is under our ord. Maybe someone could make him a copy of Section 115.240 & give it to him.  He can read it.  DA: Yes I 'd like to make the motion & table till the next bd mtg.  RC: I'll 2nd.  JW: RS needs to know the job descriptions ain't in the Ord Book, even tho it's a salary ord, but you know, he's the professional down there, so maybe he'll show me some of this stuff he knows. 


DM: Mr. Martin, correct me here.  The motion to table is non-debatable, so all in favor of the motion to table, say aye. (some or all do).  All opposed (none heard).  Like to point out that if we do not have approval on the assistant court clerk, I may temporarily appoint till the next mtg.  So if I cannot get approval for next time, ____ unless there's some good reason not to, I'll appoint Miss Rupple again as assistant court clerk on a temporary basis until the approval.  Not to override the Bd's wishes, just to let them know.


Next we've got chain of command in the office.  So I guess there's some confusion because PP was elected by the BOA .  I would like to get a clarification here from EM.  If this is the office person I guess running the city is, I realize the mayor & bd work together, so I'm not trying to obviously take all of the power, but I guess the daily operations deserve opinion on - EM: Well, let me start off first, this is not an unusual situation.  Every 4th class city has a clerk that is elected by the BOA ; that's what the state statute says.  That is, that your clerk is responsible for ___ statutory _____ & as far as administrative duties, it's really what the mayor & BOA  want to do. Uh as for responsibilities, it's what you want to make of the job, uh what this mayor & bd wants to make of the job. 


DM: So I guess the particular thing was the uh timeclock which I was, felt that the timecards are a legal document.  That's why I guess when PP told me that workers in the office would not be on the timeclock, I talked to Mr. Croghan, who's our auditor, & he strongly recommended that we stay with the timecards, because that's something he uses as part of his audit.  So _________ city good, backing  __________ to make that legal background in case there should be an audit or questions______ recommended timecards.  Some dispute that point, whether we would, with my direction, or would the BOA  not try & get it clarified.  Step on anybody's toes, but it's something, in case something came up in the future, say why didn't the mayor know about that, but _________ protect the city _________ _______.  JW:  I believe that uh Mrs. Helton, being the office mgr, & overseeing PP & everybody else in the uh city office - DM: Is there a 2nd?   q/c? 


DA: I, I'm obviously voting no on this. What I would prefer to see is the mayor, propose the chain of command that he would like to see & present it to the bd for discussion & debate. Uh ____ & then we could come up with agreement after certain things.  Um you know, Mrs. Helton could uh, from what I know, she does a good job; however, I don't know that she's, you know, willing or qualified right now to run that, another office.  I just don't know that much about her work.  Um you know, her, her, you know her duties that she's doin' now, if she's willing to do that.   & I, again I can tell you that it is the mayor's responsibility to run the City of VP & that office um with assistance & guidance from the BOA .  I would feel much more comfortable if the maker of that motion would withdraw that & make a motion & the mayor outline a proposed change _______.  DM: q/c? 


BL: I could read the job description of the city clerk as it is presented in the ___________ last July.  City clerk's____________ perform independently within the framework of municipal law policy.  His work is reviewed by consultation with the mayor, city auditor, city atty & the governing body.  It is required by law.  The employee directly supervises various clerical & accounting personnel.  DM: Does it say in there about assistant court clerk?  BL: Yes it does. (chuckles are heard)  BL:  Says, employee serves ____________ back-up for the court clerk _________ _____________________________________________________ .  JW: Either that or the bd's desire.  (few very minor audience mumbles)


RS: Point of order, YH.  We have the crowd speaking out.  Maybe a police officer can get 'em under control.  L  DM: (gavel bangs) Quiet, please.  DA: BL, what document is that?  BL: It's the um budget that Mayor Fred Palmer submitted 2001, 2002 proposed budget which we voted on.  We didn't change any job descriptions.  Some of the numbers changed.


RH: Let's just say uh we have a disgruntled employee ____________.  DM: On vacation, for instance?  RH: No, just a, who handles this?  No. I meant (audience giggling a tad) ?:  _______ . (aud. giggles) in that office.  Would that be PP's job, is what I'm trying to say, is that the court clerk's job?  JW: Pat's not gonna fire nobody.  ___ city clerk?  RH: I guess, who runs the office is what I'm trying to say basically, who runs the office?  JW: Here ya go.  RH: Has anybody in that office, if an employee got out of line, who would it take to say remove her or dismiss her, or send her home for the day, or you know, who's gonna calf-tie 'em or whatever you guys want to call it ___________?  DM: The mayor or pres of the bd.  RH:  So it's nobody in the office _______________________Pillows.  EM: He wouldn't have the courage to do that.  RH: That's all I'm doin'. Tku.  (exchange tapes)


5/20/02 BOA  - Section 9 of 9


JW: ...experienced person in there that's around everything.  & I think she'd be the correct person to get involved with most the people that she should be concerned enough to correct 'em if there's an error.  So I'm sure this motion's not gonna pass, but I hope she'd be considered for that position.  TB: As office mgr, she'd be able to discipline ___________ .


DM: I guess that's why I think this doesn't change command, ___ agree on that, how much power this would be for one person.  As JW said, uh Mrs. Helton has done a good job.  She's been here nearly 2 yrs now, next mo will make her 2-yr anniversary.  She been very good about working with me at work, calling up when certain things come up to try to work _______ briefly or something.  If I'd be off, to be down there, I would be, I'd take the next day off to be down there & handle it.  But generally, can usually handle it with phone calls  ______________________ reviewed a letter she's typed & ______ works with me on Valley Days _____________ ___________________ .  So she has demonstrated some good office managerial experience or skill _______________ .


TB: Maybe ______________________ask her if she _________________ __________?  DM: I had considered that as a matter of fact, & was going to propose that in the budget, but she, because she demonstrated that compensate her with additional responsibilities, she would take the _________for the money. TB: Do you think she'd consider it now?  DM: I think she would, but ______ -  JW: YH, I'll withdraw the motion & hope that it would get considered within the budget for the person, & adjust the wage accordingly.  I wouldn't expect her to work at what's rate she's doin' & perform her duty.  DM: 2nd agree on withdrawing it?  TB: Yes, sir.


RC: YH, just one comment.  I would hope that if the aldermanic person to check, say for instance, you have a particular situation where you worked out a chain of command.  & maybe ask a couple of the ald, ask all of 'em if you want to, I don't mean a, you know, a letter to 'em or something.  But to, I think to come right in & be a little more heavy-handed when you don't probably have to, might be a better approach.  Uh in other words, you know, if you have a problem with an issue, I don't think that if you call one or 2 of us & you tell the others to call each other & get back to you,  you don't have to make 7 phone calls.  DM: I wouldn't want to make 7 phone calls anyway, in violation of the Sunshine Law.  _____ saying this is the decision I've made & ________ felt necessary we have a special bd mtg. 


RC: What, I think what, what the question here, the principle is not whether uh you can come in & mention something to the city clerk, & then they're supposed to do something.  I think what's at issue here is what's the difference between the general supervision of the city, versus __ ,  & that's pretty much the day-to-day, versus the long range.  That's the gray area & I think most the ald here are trying to say uh let's, let's establish that before we all assume you know which one, which is. 


DM: I'm just asking a question in general, hypothetically, if Mr., say a city clerk, not necessarily Mr.Pillow felt that it was prudent to take the office workers' off the time clock, being as he should've come to the bd 1st, if the mayor doesn't have the authority to direct him to put them back on the timeclock?  Kind of a tit for tat kind of a thing. 


RC: Le, le, let's  go with that a separate way.  Uh being an elected official & being on the BOA  uh it would behoove, I think you, to remember that you could've accomplished the same thing, just simply by saying uh what you were, if the suggestion was given to you on that particular day, bring it to the BOA , which you just said.  But what I'm saying is that there, there was no harm in waiting to _____ people.   DM: Why would somebody say it's ok to take them off the timeclock without going to the bd, but it's ok to put 'em back on if I directed them to & then calling up you & saying please talk to the mayor & direct 'em, tell 'em what I want to do? 


RC: Well, no that wasn't the way the conversation went.  The conversation went that, that you were demanding that something happen, & when I asked you in a conciliatory way, would you consider bringing this up at a next mtg, & talking about it, open fashion, you basically said you would not.  I said well, I mean, somebody has to uh make a decision here & I do believe if, if you didn't appoint him, & if it is a gray area issue, then it can wait.  This wasn't a bloody situation. 


DM: Why couldn't it wait to take 'em off the timeclock if bringing it to the bd to put 'em back on the timeclock was the action taken?  Taking 'em off the timeclock should've also been the bd;  why one way, but not the other?   RC: I would say, if that had been what you wanted to do, fine.  DM: If you agree with what I want to do, that's ok, not to come to the bd, but if we differ,  then - RC: No, your response was that you wanted it there regardless, & I said perhaps we should discuss this. 


DM: Perhaps we don't need a mayor.  Is that where you're heading?  Eight ald make this joint decision?  RC: Remember, you said that.  DM:  I'm asking you, do you think we need a mayor or not?  RC: Sure.  DM: Then what am I supposed to do besides run the mtg here?  Day-to-day operations, you don't think I should say Mr.Croghan said we should be on the timeclock because we do the auditing?  Apparently that's, I guess I'm at a loss here, why some things were taken off without the may, er Mr. Pillow talking to me.   & I say again I apologize for him, explaining a few things there & I apologize, I missed that part of it.  But that should've gone to the bd, saying I'm gonna take the office workers off the timeclock, now he wants to put 'em back on, that's when you directed me to bring it to the bd. 


RC: Absolutely, &, & I think that, that if you'd have done that (audience is laughing), you would've accomplished probably the same thing.  I think we, you know, the idea is let's just figure out what the chain of command is & let's just be clear.  DM: So the chain of command when he took 'em off the clock was come to the mayor, put 'em back on the clock, come to the bd. Is that what you're saying?  RC:  No, the chain of command at the time was he was taking probably some directive from those folks that he works directly for.  DM: He was taking directions from the people working for him?  JW: No, he was taking 'em from Russ. (audience laughs & someone says "that's right".) 


RC: He was taking direction from a, from BOA  members.  DM: How was his direction relayed to him?  RC: If, if, if, if anyone had suspected it was going to be a controversial issue, they've been happy to write to you.  No one knew it. You're the one who recognized it as a problem & that's when I said, well, let's, let's take it to the next step, but you didn't want to do it.  DM: So you apparently directed him at the beginning to take office workers off the timeclock, is that what you're saying?  RC: I'm saying that, that he discussed it with several ald besides me. (audience mumbles)  It wasn't just me. 


DM: So do you think to avoid the violation of the Sunshine Law, it might be good to bring it up to a bd mtg, rather than wherever - RC: I would say if, if you would like to bring issues up like that, you have a mayor's report & you're welcome to do that, which I hope that that's what you're doing now.  I think that's what you're doing & we're trying to solve it & DA has already gotten the solution.  DM: I'm trying to get away from 9 ald or 9 mayors, as you would want to call it.  Have the mayor run the city & the ald & the mayor do the ______ legislative actions of the city & __________ I realize the bd does elect the city clerk, but like I say, if you feel we can save the $15,000 a yr by not having a mayor, then we should vote on a new constitution for the city.  It would be no longer a 4th class city, but a charter city with 8 or 7 or how ever many ald you deemed necessary & maybe things will look better.  RC: YH, on to a different subject, if you feel that that's the way to go, put it in Legislative & we'll talk about it, but on the topic we're on, uh did DA make a motion to put this in a cmte?  If he did, let's put it there & talk about it.  If he didn't, I'll make a motion.  DA:  I did make a motion, but it never received a 2nd.  RC: I'll give you a second.  DA: Now if I could comment?  DM: Motion for chain of command, DA please. 


DA: Yes. Again, I think the need to have a chain of command.  I'm gonna take a little responsibility here that when I was mayor, this issue bounced back & forth. Sometimes we had timeclocks, sometimes we did not, depending at that particular time um, you know, how the bd felt, or how the um office um crew felt.  I could tell ya, it could be simply cleaned up  because we have an employee's handbook.  Those type of um situations & issues should be actually dealt with in that employee's handbook as a standard procedure which does not change with the mayor, does not change with the BOA  or the employee _________ ,  & I should've done that as mayor.  It was an issue & a problem. I discussed & debated with the bd many a times.


But again, I think there's ________ we need to update our employees handbook with those procedures uh which would need to be done in the Leg Cmte.  Um & also I would be interested in seeing what the mayor would propose as a chain of command, because in a 4th class city, the mayor is the um chief administrative officer.  I think we all recognize that, however, the mayor will find it very difficult to run the city without the help of the ald & the city crew.  So I think that the ald understand that I would like to see this placed in Leg Cmte.  I would ask the mayor to provide his directive & a chain of command um as a, an outline of a place to start ______ get off the subject & not __________. 


JW:  Who pulled the timecards out now already, without the bd's approval?  A couple bd members might've approved it, but the full bd never voted on taking the timecards out.  Next thing, I've worked under Mayor Adams, Joe Harrington, Fred Palmer, & I'll tell you what, they run that office & called all the shots in that office & I think the mayor should still call the shots in there.  If uh these guys want to do that job, they need to run for that position & get in there &...  (end of 5/20/02 BOA Mtg recording - see notes below)



Notes:  I'm sorry;  I accidentally taped the 6/3/02 BOA  mtg over the end of this one.  However, the city's 5/20/02 BOA  mtg minutes say that:


JW motioned to approve Ms Ruppel as assistant court clerk;  2nd by TB;  both ald withdrew their motion.


Then, DA motioned that we table the issue of appointment of an assistant court clerk;  2nd by RC;  & motion carried, yes 7, no 0. 


Then, JW motioned Mrs. Helton be appointed as office mgr;  2nd by TB;  both motions were withdrawn. 


Then, DA motioned that the issue of chain of command in the city clerk's office is placed into Leg Cmte;  2nd by RC;  motion carried, yes 7, no 0. 


Then, RS motioned we approve the Financial Report to include the addition of D.G. Purdy & pay the bills;  2nd by RC;  motion carried, yes 7, no 0. 


Then, Mayor placed Meramec River level readings/watches into the Police Cmte by executive order.


Then, at 10:00 pm, DA motioned to go into Exec Session;  2nd by TB;  voice vote:  Yes:  RH, TB, DA, RS, JW, RC & BL;  motion carried, yes 7, no 0.  Lastly, at 10:11 pm, RS motioned to adjourn;  2nd by TB;  motion carried, yes 7, no 0.