Present:  RH, TB, DA, RS, PP, DM, EM, JW, RC, BL.



6/3/02 BOA - Sec  1 of  35


...DM: ...Do any of the ald have any additions to the agenda?   TB: Yes, YH, I guess this might go in PBW  - MM:  I'm sorry, we can't hear you. (some check their mics)  DM:  PBB you were saying.  TB:  PBW, it's Quinwood. DM:   Quinwood, ok. Any other items?  TB: No.  DM:  RH, do you have anything to add?   RH:   Uh 141 old 141 _ _ _ _ _.   DM:  DA.  DA:  No, YH, tku.  DM:  _ _ _.  JW.   JW: Yes, YH, I'd like to get an update on the Stormwater Master Plan for City VP.  DM:  Any other items?  JW:  No, tku..  


DM: RC.  RC:  Uh, yes, YH, I've got several, but they're pretty fast.   I'd like ta, to get the trailer length uh put into uh LEG Cmte. Uh I think it kind of fell thru the cracks & one of the residents is wondering what happened. Uh, I, I'd like uh to talk about uh getting uh Sorlee looked at, the street uh & we just need to saw-cut that or something 'cause it's just crackin';  & I, I know that we, we've been there before. I just want to get a city policy or something that says pour concrete & put in the expansion joint.

The uh, uh I'd also like to uh bring up having uh the internet put on the city clerk's compuer. I know we ran into some difficulties, but I think there's a (flood or plug?) as far as gettin' some things uh done.  Uh, I'd also like to uh bring up getting the safe combination changed ;  uh, that's something I'll try to explain a little bit about. Uh I still would like to ask if uh the bd would approve plaques for uh, uh 4 or 5 of the uh former city officials.


I'd also like the mayor to consider uh & the Bd of P&Z appointmt.  I think if one of 'em is up.  I'd like for us to maybe consider maybe a First Ward person.   Uh we don't have the P&Z mins, but I'd also like to ask maybe if uh you would consider um, uh this, that Roxanne uh might take the mins for them; that was - we got a mtg coming up;  the next mtg we may be in the same situation or something, so.


Uh, also, I'd like uh JB & myself to give a brief explanation of what's going on with 207 & 209 uh, uh Crescent Ave, as well as uh Crescent Springs Subdiv. I'd like uh to talk about uh a dog situation on Patricia Guild. I'd like to ask the Cmty Dev Dir to uh tell me what's happening with a uh, a biz that's located across the st from approximately 248 Crescent Ave.  Uh I'd also, I need to get some uh legal advice here, if a property line situation, it is uh, not correct - How do we as a city keep someone from loosing yardage because of that?  That's over on Frances.


I, I'd like to uh either pass tonight or put into cmte uh a fee that's supposedly being levied on refrigerator pick-ups & big trash; try to get to the bottom of that. I, I'd like to also have uh maybe painting uh _ _ at maybe a couple of streets.    The stop signs may not be giving 'em enough time or something like that - have, having a little stripe with the word stop, as well as uh having the speed limit painted on one particular road which is too close to every interSec, actually put the speed limit.  & then I 'd also like the resolution pertaining to Advice & Consent to be heard at the time that those people _ _;   & I'll be very quick about it, YH.  But I just - a lot of stuff goin' on.


DM:  BL, you have anything?   BL: Yes, I have one item, YH;  um, the prosecuting atty , uh just a short discussion on that.  DM:  Motion to approve the agenda as amended will be in order.  DA: So moved.  JW:  2nd.  RC:   YH, does that, does that include whatever the clerk's wanting to talk about here?  Did you have something _ _?  RS:  Is the Clerk/Collector Report automatically agendized , YH ?  DM:  He'll bring it up under the clerk's report.   RC: It, it, it, it includes all that  _ _.  - DM:  All in favor?  (voice vote - none heard opposed) (Pledge Allegiance)


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  2 of  35


DM:  Got uh 4 speaker cards here.  Does anyone else have a speaker card to uh, wish to address the bd tonight?  First is uh, Maureen Morris.  Excuse me, let me take roll real quick;  then we'll start.  Apologize. Take roll please. (see above)


MM:   Yes, my name is Maureen Morris & my only rental property is #8 Arnold Dr. Please make my cmts here a part of the City's Journal tonight.  If anyone cannot hear me or understand my words at any time, please feel free to interrupt me because the most imporant & ultimately, the important element to EVERYTHING is clear communication;  one small word makes an enormous difference.  My recorder on the stage picks up a tad more than I hear myself in the front row, but even on my tapes there are too many inaudible words.  Transcribing them is very time consuming & nerve wracking;  it's no wonder some people earn $90/hr doing it. JW does the best job of speaking audibly.


All of you up there are probably not concerned about me & my tapes, but my point is that you realize, show concern & solve the problem that audience members probably miss more words that I do.  I could be wrong - Can everybody usually hear alright or do you wish they'd speak up? (several people agree & even say they should speak up).  Ok, because a lot of times I think it must be just me because nobody else says anything.  So I just think that we're just too polite to interrupt.  So I'm requesting again that each of you there speak loudly & clearly at all times & at all mtgs. Speaking clearly includes in full sentences & at a normal rate. It would be best to just do this on your own;  otherwise, please use the microphones that you & We The People paid for in order for us to hear you.  I don't mean to keep going on about this, but I've asked this before; please be sure they're on & SPEAK INTO THEM.  If they don't work properly, fix them immediately.


How much was paid for this microphone system?  Wasn't it like $5000?  (they look around unknowingly)  Does anybody know or have any idea?  (no response)  Ok, from now on, if I cannot easily hear or understand any word from anyone, I will interrupt.  I don't mean to be rude, I just wannna make sure that not only I, but everyone, hears EVERY WORD THAT YOU SAY;  it's very important. Um, so I will interrupt & I also urge other audience members to politely interrupt when you can't hear something.


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  3 of  35


My next cmts are regarding obtaining info from the City of VP.  My efforts have been hampered by various city officials & staff.  I know there'a a Freedom of Information Act, & when I get a copy of it printed out, I'll sit back at home where I can relax, & uno, have a few beers, I mean sodas, & read it (referring to hearsay at the 4/11/02 TIF/ARP Hrg re a Cmsn Member).  However & in the meantime, I would like to address EM.  


EM, I have specific questions & I expect specific answers.  Tku to anyone wishing me good luck! EM, I presume that you have been officially appointed as a tax-paid, professional city ofc'l here in our blighted area.  Acting in that capacity, your answers are also expected to be accurate & timely, which also applies to copies of docs that I expect.  I would appreciate a letter from you AISP, As Immediately As Possible please, stating which, if any, docs you will not give me or cannot give me, & where I CAN get them.  Please also state when & where I can pick-up those docs ASAP that you can get for me if any, & the cost.  


Is the city's tape recorder on PP?  PP: _ _ _ _.  MM:  There's no city tape recorder - Are you taking the mins?  PP: Yes, maam.  MM:  Maybe you could make a list for EM so that he won't forget the documts that I'm requesting.  Tku.  At the 5/6/02 BOA mtg, Bill # 1681, Ord # 1556, an ordinance amending an ARP for VP's levee & infrastructure project, approving changes thereto & affirming related findings was passed.  Will you give me a copy of that, EM?  (he whispers to DM for about 12 seconds)  Can you give me a copy of that ord, EM? (no response)  Excuse me.


DM:  We're conferring _ _ _ _.  (aud chuckles & mumbles) - AP (aud person) : we can't hear you. DM:  We'll do - the proper procedure is to submit a list & then during biz hrs, & then we'll give either the responses for the info you've requested, or else a reason why that info cannot be released to you.  MM:  I will submit a request, but I would just like to just ask;  I would like to JUST ASK HIM. (silence)  DM: Like I say, just _ _ ;  just go ahead & submit the list during biz hrs.


MM:  Ok, well, for example, EM, at the 4/11/02 TIF Hearing your answer to me about whether the mins & speakers' cmts there would be made part of the City's Journal, was simply that there would be a smry you'd help MW with.  On Monday, 4/29, I went & asked for a copy of that smry. Roxanne, Terry & Cassie in the ofc, gave me a thick set of stapled papers.  Per my other requests & their instructions, I went to the VP Library to get the Levee & BOA mtg mins.  At the library, Judy was very helpful, but we found only BOA mtgs mins & they ONLY MENTIONED Levee Cmsn Progress Reports & levee mtg mins.  There were a few documents re Purdy, wetlands, mitigation & env'l issues, but Judy & I found no actual Levee Progress Reports OR actual levee mtg mins.


I went right back to the ofc & stated to the ladies that there were no levee mtg mins at the library.  I also told them that in lieu of EM's TIF Hrg Smry, they had somehow given me a copy of the ARP.  PP arrived, intervened & helpfully wrote himself a note of all my requests.  I specifically told him that I wanted a copy of EM's Smry of the 4/11/02 TIF Hrg & also all levee mtg mins from 6/99 thru now.  Pat stated that he would check on my requests & call me right back after a previously planned mtg with EM, within the wk.  Pat further stated that he does not get into politics & I thanked him anticipatingly.


I gave Pat plenty of time & left him a phone call at city hall on Mon, 5/6/02, at 2:25 pm to call me. At 3:10 pm that day, Pat called & said yes, he had met with EM, but since he forgot to put that note in his book, he had forgotten to ask EM about my requests.  He wrote down the same requests again as we talked & said again that he'd get right back to me since EM was coming in early that evening before the next BOA mtg.  


I did not talk to or see Pat until he was rushing to his seat at that mtg where city ofc'ls stated that RC had prepared the TIF Hrg mins.  I have yet to see RC's TIF Hrg mins, alias EM's TIF Hrg Smry.  So, can I get a copy of RC's TIF Hrg Smry?  Or is that too much to ask?  (aud chuckles & mumbles as stage people mumble) . That's all I want.  (no answer is heard)  Ok, I'll submit a list.


EM, Where are, tell me where are the levee mtg mins?  Ok, I'm not asking you for a document now;  I'm just asking you a simple ques.  WHERE ARE THE LEVEE MTG MINS?  That's a simple ques. (no response)  Where are they?  (no response)   Does anybody know?  Does anybody have 'em?  (aud & stage people mumble) Please speak up so - DM:  I'm asking EM to get - if PP could get an answer back to you tomorrow since you've already requested this.  If you could submit a written request tonight so we can definitely have something in writing;  _ _ reply to you tomorrow.  MM:  Ok, um, I want copies of all the Construction Progress Reports.  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  4 of  35


EM, during the 4/11 TIF Pub Hrg, you said the notice of it was published twice.  Where was that published?  (aud chuckles & mumbles while EM confers with DM)  DM:  It was published in the newspaper.  MM:  Which newspaper?  EM:  St Louis Post-Dispatch.  MM:  In the Post-Dispatch; & what were the exact dates of the Post-Dispatch?  EM or DM: _ - MM: You can get back with me on that, but I'll check with them for those copies.


EM, in Lt., uh Lt. Melies' Report at the 12/18/00 BOA mtg, Lt Melies said, quote, In the packets for the month of Nov, blah, blah, physical resources weren't as busy as the prior month.  Ofcr Tucker attended Dougherty Ferry Woods Subdiv mtg & aerial photos were taken of the const area of Rte 141 FOR REASON OF FUTURE BDRY DISPUTE WITH MANCHESTER, unquote.  Can someone, EM in particular, could you please tell us about that boundary dispute?  


EM:  I don't know what you're talking about.  MM:  You don't know anything about the boundary dispute, but you had aerial photographs taken for that purpose?  EM:  I didn't have an aerial photograph taken.  MM:  Or is Lt Scott Melies mistaken?  EM:  I, I don't know what you're talkin' about.  MM:  Do uno, Lt Melies, about the aerial photos that you said (pause) -


LtM:  The only boundary dispute would be submissions to Bdry Cmsn; uh, & that's part of a long-term project that might be in the works with StL Cnty or the city code or Manchester.  MM: Ok, because uh uno, as far as a bdry dispute with Manchester, I talked on uh 3/21/02 with Ed Blattner, Manchester's City Eng.  He told me that about 21/2 yrs ago, Manchester annexed about, up to VP, by Dougherty Ferry;  had no problems;  no aerial photos had been requested; & he said that there have been no bdry disputes over the past 10 YRS or so with VP;  & he also stated that he's been in his position for 17 yrs & he would certainly know.


So how much did those aerial photographs cost?  LtM:  They didn't cost the city anything.  MM: Didn't cost the city anything;  ok, well that's good, but I just don't understand -  DM:  MM, Do you have other items?  Could you wrap it up here?  We _ 2 mins per person.  MM:  That's it;  I just don't understand why -


RH:  YH, If this is going to go on, would she direct, go thru you, then you go thru - MM:  Tku. I'm finished.   RH: _ what we're supposed to do here.  DM:  Tku.  MM:  I'm out of patience with you people!

6/3/02 BOA - Sec  5 of  35


DM:  Next is Mary Corbett.  MC: Good evening, mayor, BOA.  My name is Mary Corbett;  I'm a former alderman of Peerless Park.  I am requesting that my statemt be a part of your city minutes which I understand that you refer to as your Journal.  I'm here to set the record straight regrading who & what caused some of the residents of former PPk not to support the annexation by VP.

At the time, DA was your mayor.  He came to my home & at the time was being harrassed & was seeking help.  We referred him to StL Cnty Police who gave him immediate aid & assistance.  He seemed grateful at the time.  He brought up the annexation of the former City of PPk & he was told quite frankly that until your city atty, EM, was removed from ofc, that we were not interested.  In fact, we would fight any attempts made by your city to annex the former City of PPk.   We never heard from DA again.  It is my understanding, he never brought this info to your bd. So if you're looking to point fingers, look no further than DA.


It is appalling to me personally to see a city atty live off the proceeds of a single city that he represents.  It is my understanding that no city atty has ever achieved this goal.  It is my opinion that your bd should give this immediate attention.  While I'm not going to list all the reasons I feel the way I do, I will say this:  he did hire private investigators to follow each of the petitioners who disincorporated PPk;  & then he tried to have the city pay for it.  It took a judge's ruling to stop that paymt.

I will end this statemt with this:  your constituents hired, elected & asked Dan Michels to run this city & I'm asking you all to back him & let him do his job.  He was
(aud is applauding), he was the only one from VP that kept in touch & encouraged us to come to your city. I support your mayor & I am proud of VP for electing Dan Michels & encourage you to demand your city aldermen to stand by Dan & make positive changes in VP.  Good luck. (aud applauds again).


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  6 of  35


DM:  Next is Don Carroll.  MrC:  Tku, Dan, gentlemen.  I live on Quinwood as most of uno.  Some time back we were informed that the city was gonna redo the street, storm, salt, water situation up there, & you were going to start in April.  I looked at my calendar today;  I think I'm in June. Where are YOU?  Could somebody give me an answer, what's goin' on?   (audience members mumble)  


DM:  Uh, MrC, I believe it was supposed to start in April.  I've got a msg out for TW to talk with MSD (someone coughs) issues & I'll certainly bring this up as well & get an answer back to you as to exactly when we're going to start.  I apologize for not starting on time.  MrC:  I would appreciate some communications.   DM:  Yes, MrC.   MrC: Uh, I've asked that of the ald & apparently that doesn't work.


Um, I have one more subject I'd like to address.  That is, Mr. Mayor, you & the BOA, I've been a lifelong citizen in VP, 65 yrs.  I spent 6 yrs as a member of the BOA & I'm very proud of it.  I thought when I was on the bd, I accomplished a great deal & so did the bd;  so did the mayor. But, gentlemen, YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO THE CITY OF VP, TO THE PEOPLE THAT YOU, WHO PUT YOU IN OFC  (aud applauds);  & I suggest you get your little, petty little things out the door; you go to work & do what you can for the city & quit your damn nit-picking back & forth;  & get something done.  Tku.  (aud applauds again)


RH:  YH.  DM:  _ sorry, RH.  RH:  MSD had the uh blueprints for about 6 wks.  They sent them back to eng'g 2 wks ago;  uh, had to go back for a review because of the school property there was goin' on with their uh property there;  elevate it, uno, something about they were gonna put a retaining wall;  so it had to go back to review.  They said a review usually takes about 2 wks.  I talked to Mr. Bodie about it & (Mr.?)  _ _, he called tonight before the mtg (about it?).  I worked late.  McC:  You didn't call back.  RH:  & I'm telling you the answer now.  It's in review;  it should be out in 2 wks.  I call eng'g weekly. I keep up with my projects.  At least I've DONE something. Tku.  McC:  Prove it, mister, prove it.  RH:  What _ - DM:  (2 gavel bangs)  Order!  That's fine. We'll get him an answer.  Tku.  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  7 of  35


Next, Mr. Beard, John Beard. MrB:  Mayor & BOA, my name is John Beard.  What I've got a problem with, we all had a mtg down here, probably been 3 or 4 months ago;  I think most of you was at it for the Bd of Adjusters.  They said we're illegal what we're doin';  it's all illegal, nothing we can do or say or vote on is legal.  If we've never had a mtg, it's never been called back, they never would say anything.  I'd like for someone to get to the bottom of it;  find out what's goin' on & why we're not finding out.  If we're still illegal, why are we bein' a, still bein' a Bd of Adjusters?  Why don't we just discontinue & not be a Bd of Adjusters for the City of VP?


DM:  Who said the Bd of Adjustmts is illegal?  MrB:  Well, was you at the mtg that night when the man stood up back there & told us;  since we wasn't keepin' the mins, wasn't doin' this or that, that it was all illegal?  He was there (pointing to various ald), he was there, he was there. DM:  Was that about when TW addressed the group?  MrB:  Yes.  DM:  I believe he gave reasons for what should be done, not, he wasn't saying that it was, the bd's illegal.  He's just saying the proper steps to follow.  MrB:  Well, if you don't keep mins of your records or what you're doin' & who said what, it's illegal.  DM:  Has a mtg been held since then where mins were not taken? MrB: _ they hadn't;  that's what I'm tryin' to find out.  Why hasn't there been a mtg or something to get it straightened out?  


DM:  Alright, tku.  MrB:  I mean if it's been 3 or 4 months, I think we should do something.  DM: Do you know if somebody who took the mins in the past mtg _ _ _, or how would you suggest we correct those mins, this mtg?  MrB:  I think someone should come to the bd like it was suggested that night & do something about it.  Get something done.  Get someone foreign to take mins & everything so when we do have a mtg, it is legal.  'cause if we're havin' a mtg & everybody's sittin' up here votin' & 3 or 4 days later, we're re-votin' again & doin' something else, I think it's kind of wrong.  I think we should be votin' on somethin' one time & there should be mins took of it.  That way, everybody knows how everybody voted & they could go back & read it.


The last 2 or 3 mtgs we had, we voted, then 2, 3 days later, we had another vote;  people came in & voted & there wasn't even a mtg.  So I think we should do something or find out what we're not doin'.  DM:  I'll talk to the Chairman of the Bd of Adjustmts & see if we can set up a mtg & correct these uh _ _.  MrB: Ok, tku.  DM:   Tku, Mr Beard.  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  8 of  35


Next on the agenda is the Bd mtg mins from 5/20/02.   wbp?  RS: Move approval. ?: _ _ - DM:  Been moved by RS, 2nd by DA;  any q/c?  Hearing none, all in favor say aye.  (ayes)  All opposed?...(none heard, but also exchange tapes)


...DM:...there any uh mins from uh FW&M Cmte mins, JW?  JW:  Not at this time, YH. DM: Would like to say I've got a budget together, we'll be passing out at the end of the mtg as RC, er JW then um calls a mtg to go thru the beginning of review of the budget so we can get this worked out this month.   Any LEG mins, BL?   BL:  _ _ _ _ _ - DM: _ _ _ _.


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  9 of  35


Next under a Levee Cmsn, uh, DC.  _ _should we just combine the Levee Cmsn & Emerg Mgmt _ _ _ _ _. DC: I'll talk on Emerg Mgmt. Uh JM & I attended last Thursday, a mtg or a, uh I guess you would call a display of the Rapid Deploymt uh Flood Wall at the COE's uh service base down in St Louis.  It was very informative;  has a very uh - it beats sandbagging & many _ _ know about this or anything, but it's a plastic - this is a little thing that we had;  you can pass it around & look at this.   It replaces sandbags in the least amt of time &, & sandbags - the cost is, is very high.  1K ft of it 4-ft high would cost you $182,810;  10K ft of it will cost you $18M;  that's the first time. It's only 4-ft high;  they recommend 4-ft high.   Uh 6-ft high, you can go to 6 ft, but it'll cost you another $182K + 90 some thousand $ to put it up there.


JW:  You didn't order any, did you?  DC:  Uh no, I didn't order it. (DC & audience chuckle)  I didn't think we needed it bein' that we're gonna, they're supposin' to have a levee down there.   You can use this again about 6 times, uh & it'll only cost you $41K for 1K ft of it.  This, this uh $182K is per paid labor the first time you put it up. Uh it's very, we didn't see it hold back any water, but it really, uh it's quite unique.  (DC & audience chuckle)   They take, put it up & they say it'll, it works better than sandbags & I can agree with 'em that it probably will work better than sandbags;   to put up the same type of operation, it'd cost you $323,117 for sandbags 4-ft high.  


Uh I didn't think - I just wanted to let the ald know that I, that Jim & I attended it.  & it's a very, I mean, for a certain place, it might be very, very good for a biz & I'm going to present a copy of this to the uh, uh bizmen.   I've already presented one to the school.  It might be opportunity for the school to maybe consider it.  Cost-wise, I don't know whether they can afford it or not, but it would give them some easier way to sandbag area at the school if they had to _ _ _ _.  FEMA will not pay any amt of this money _ _ _ _ part of this biz _ _ _ _.  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  10 of  35


On the Levee Cmsn, I just wanted to impress that our next Levee Cmsn mtg will not be at the city hall.  It will be at COE at uh the Robert Young Bldg downtown at 2:00 in the afternoon.  & uh I'd like to see as many of the ald & the Levee Cmsn members, aldermanic members be at this mtg because we're gonna meet with uh their, uh levee, the VP levee team there.  You'll be getting a uh reminder thru the mail probably tomorrow or the next day, uh giving you a map & what, what's gonna be taking place at this mtg.  So that's all I have.  Do you have any ques on this sandbagging or anything?


EM: _ _ _ _ _?  DC:  That's uh - ?: 6/17.  DC: 6/17 at 2:00.   JW:  DC,  Did we uh ever have any updates since the last levee mtg about the fed funding raise from the small amt that the Pres - DC:  I haven't heard anything.  I, I saw Tom Horgan at this mtg & he said that he didn't have any more info _ _ _ _.  EM:  It won't be final till Sept, Oct _ _ _  - DC:  Right.  I hope maybe at the July, at this June mtg we'll maybe , uh maybe have some more info from the COE or something.  Maybe they got something, but I haven't heard anything from them.  JW:  Tku.  


DM: Just like to state, I did send a letter in last week on behalf of the city to Cgsm Akin's ofc doing whatever his efforts he could do to provide more money for the city, it would be greatly apprectiated.  Hopefully that'll, with everyone's efforts, we'll be able to get the money.  Tku for  _ _ _.  DC:  Ok.


RC:  YH, Do you think we could uh, the ald that don't sit on the Levee Cmsn could be given the agenda & the mins _ _as well,  _ _ _?  DC:  To attend this mtg?  RC:  No, no all the Levee Cmsn mtgs. DM: We could _ _ _ _ _ _.  RC:  Well, I, I, I'm sittin', uno, thru a lot of the Levee Cmsn mtgs & there was stuff up there &, & I found out about it, uno, later & I was wondering maybe if I could read it & just listen at the same time.  I'm sayin' uh, uno, whatever the uh Levee Cmsn folks are given - is there a possibility of that being sent to the, the non-uh-aldermanic uh members? DM: We could do that, yes.


DC:  What, what is it you want to do?   DM:  So you're looking for a copy of the agenda for each mtg?  RC: Well, that &, & the mins, so when they start talkin' about stuff, uno, maybe I can understand it a lot better.  DM:  I believe the mins are generally in the packets;   _ _ _ _ _.  RC: Uh, not, not sometimes, not the ones they're talkin' about that night.  DC:   I, I thought you got a copy of the mins in the, but I don't know whether you got a mins of the mtg or not.  DM:  We'll see that they go in the packet.  


DC:  We usually get the mins of that mtg in the night & then they're uh included at the mtg;  we vote on 'em that night. I mean you do get a copy of - RC: I get, I get some mins in the, the packet, but sometimes things go along with the agenda that uh I'd like to just be able to talk about perhaps before the Levee Cmsn, actual mtgs. DM:  We can go over it after the mtg;  we'll  - RC: That's fine, that's fine.  DC:  Whatever.  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  11 of  35


DM:  Next under ords, Bill 1683 , it was _ _.    PP:  1683, an ord amending Sec 105-040 of the Code of Ord of the City of VP, MO pertaining to the duties of the city clerk.  Whereas Sec 115.346,  a statute, MO Statute - DM: _ _ -  EM:  No, _ _ - DM:  Since it was posted, caption form, please.  wbp on Bill #1683?  DA:  Move approval.   DM: Was that DA?  DA:  Yes, it was, tku.  DM: Tku. Is there a 2nd?   RS:  2nd.  DM:  Discussion or cmt?  


JW:  I have something, YH.   How does this differ from the current one that's in force?  & what was the motive & logic to change this?   DM: EM,  _ _. EM: Yeah, uh, the, the statute changed in the uh time since the last one was made which was in 19, 1994 I believe, Nov of '94.  Basically, at that point, the law was (someone coughs) if you didn't have your taxes paid by the close of polls on election day, you couldn't be seated. Uh &, & that is still the law;  however, in uh, 99, uh the election code was amended so as to preclude a candidate being ON the ballot if the taxes weren't paid by the last date of the month. & so this is an addition;  it, it's just an add'l requiremt to the term that already existed.  One says you can't be on the ballot & the other says you can't be seated if they're not paid _ _ _ _.


JW: What's the bottom line?   Can you (not?) have your taxes paid & be seated?  Or as long as you correct 'em, you're sayin' before the election?  EM: As long as you collect 'em before the election, before the close of polls on election day, you can be seated.  You couldn't appear on the ballot if you hadn't paid 'em by the time the ballot closes;  & what this does is currently, the clerk checks to see that people are paid, but, she, she didn't do it till after the polls were closed;  & then - I'm sorry, after filing closes. So at that point, it would be too late for the potential resident to clear it up before the file closes & this says that uh the clerk is to check & get back within 2 days from the day of the filing.


JW:  So could you still be a write-in as BL performed this last election?  EM: Sure, anybody can be a write-in for public ofc, as long as they meet the, the requiremts for uh - JW:  Would that be tax evasion?  EM:  Before you, before - JW:   If I'm a write-in candidate?   EM:  the ballot closes, before the polls close, you have, you have to have taxes paid.


DM:  What was the deal with, uh Chris ran for ald in Wildwood;  I think he stated, well, he didn't wanna pay his biz license & the local (johns?) in the state where - I forget _ _ his _ _, but he did not have to pay _ _ _ _ _.  EM:  Uh, the cCrcuit Court overturned Sec uh 105, or Sec 115.346;  that's on the Circuit Court level, uh the uh MO Atty Gen's ofc has appealed that decision to the uh MO Ct of Appeals I believe _ _ _.  DM:  I believe they ruled an agreemt, but I _ _ _ _ an agreemt with the lower court that a person (did not have to pay?)  _ _ _  was equivalent to paying the whole debt.  EM:  Yeah, I, I haven't seen that ruling.  In that case, I'm sure it'll be appealed to the MO Supreme Court.


JW: YH, Since I still have the floor now, now that I pretty much understand this, if, how about if somebody's paid their taxes to Ballwin?  Just 'cause it says StL Cnty, doesn't say anything about City VP;  or am I reading that wrong?  Could I pay my taxes in Ballwin & still (pause, then audience mumble/chuckle) - EM:  I, I'm sorry, um it, it states that you can't be a candidate for ofc if you're in arrears for unpaid city taxes for municipal user fees.  JW:  WHICH CITY is what I'm askin'.  


EM:  The one that refers to the city (plan & dev?);  that's what the, the statute says.  The statute doesn't say the City of VP;  it says the city that you _ _. JW:  Oh, I'd just like to see that clarified on, uno, on this ord list.  As long as the, I guess the city atty, unless it changes, reads just the 2nd way, it would never be a problem.  EM:  Yeah, I don't think there's any question.  JW:  Tku.  DM:  q/c?


DA: Yes, YH, the only cmt,   I would hope that this ord, if it does pass, could um help prevent probably some of the uh negativity that came from the last election;   um, some that you even recognized as negative & it came back on you, uno, toward you & uh other bd members;  & hopefully this will stop that.  DM:  q/c?  All in favor of the motion (voice vote - none heard opposed)  Motion for 2nd reading on Bill 1683.  DA: So move it.  RH: 2nd.


PP:  _ _ _ _ 1, 5 dash 7 _ _ -  DM: Just the uh 1557 is the ord # of this bill.  _ _ caption form, please.   PP:  2nd reading for Bill 1683 now to be approved as Ord 1557, an ord amending Sec 105.040 of the Code of Ords of the City of VP, MO pertaining to the duties of the city clerk. DM:  Is there a motion for approval?  RC:  YH, I'll make that motion.  ?: _ _ - DM: RC's made the motion;  DA 2nd;  is there any further q/c?  (Roll call:  Yes:  RH, TB, RS, DA, JW, RC, BL.)  Motion carries, 7 yes, zero no.


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  12 of  35


Bill #1684. _ _ _ _ - PP: _ _ 1558.   DM:  Ord #1558, read it in caption form, please.   Was this properly posted?  PP:  Yes, sir. DM:  Read it in caption form, please.  PP:  Bill #1684, 1st reading, an amendmt to Sec 500.120 of the mccvp to change occupancy inspection fees. RS:  Move approval, YH.  RC:  2nd.   DM:  Moved by RS, 2nd by RC.  q/c?  JW:  I have one, YH.   How does this fee rate compare to other municipalities?  & uh I thought all fee increases had to go before the voters unless it was uh, a user fee. So I slipped an extra ques in.   DM:  _ _ _ _EM, is this something that needs to be voted on?


EM:  No, it does not.  This is a user fee (someone coughs) _ amt of time for the uh city inspector, uh has indicated that it takes him longer to do the paperwork, go to the inspection _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ & I, for the first ques, I don't know how it compares to other cities.  JW: YH, would the uh chairman of the cmte know _ _ was in cmte or _ _ - MM:  We can't hear you;  I'm sorry.  


DM:  I'm not aware of this coming out of cmte.   Uh, RS, since you moved, do uno _ _ _ _this was made in the motion?  RS:   YH, this was discussed in LEG & I believe it did come out of LEG.

DA:   YH, if I may cmt. Uh the recommendatin came from our bldg cmsnr um on research that he had um performed with other muni's, in fact, he had requested that the fees be increased at a higher rate than this;   um, but the majority of the um LEG Cmte chose not to go to the higher rate, but um to stay at this rate & part of the meat of it was because of the cost & the um liability to the city if the inspector needs to go back in after the um bldg is occupied. It's more intent on getting the occu, um occu uh, the inspection done um done before um the tenant moves in;  that was uh the meat of it.  DM:  Tku, DA.  DA:  Tku _ _ _.


JW: Uh, yes, YH, but I will uh be not - voting no, due to the fact that I think we might be pricing the city uh residents out of wanting to enter VP without knowin' for sure of some of the other muni's' rates & charges.  So I will vote no. DM:  Tku, JW.  q/c? RS:  Um, I had asked um the city clerk uh from Manchester for some of their ideas, some ideas of what they charge & they was much, much higher than, than this.   Um & I had mentioned it at the LEG mtg as just a non-voting member & um this is what that LEG Cmte came up with which I thought was a good idea after lookin' over some of Manchester. DM:  DA, you had a cmt?  DA:  No, I believe RH did.  DM: Sorry, RH.


RH:  This is, this is for rental property _ _ _ _ that's not the residents. That's all I wanted to say is you guys never intended _ _ _ this. TB:  YH, What would it be - gonna do about it?  So I just thought maybe the residents out here might want to know _ _ _ _ 25 or 35?  35 or 50?  There was more of a something tacked on if they were already in the bldg.  RH: That was the purpose of it.


TB: _ _ _ _ -  ?:  Right.  TB: So they wanted occu, they wanted the inspection before _ _ _ _ kind of arguing all along for the past few yrs _ _ - ?: _ _ _ -   DM:  _ _ _  acceptance 'cause otherwise, probably be a fee of $50 for each inspection to be paid by the owner to the city & shall accompany each request;  however if the insp - this is the problem, _ gonna have _ _ EM - However, if the inspection is performed after occupancy has occurred, the fee shall be $100.  I guess we'll have to clear it if we say we can't find the owner, _ _ _  -  EM: Sure - DM:  that that position.


DM: The motion, now at the end of the se, uh 2nd sentence, it says if the inspection is performed after occupancy has occurred, the fee shall be $100.  This thing would make, maker of the motion say - DA:  I would agree that make that change - DM:  by the owner.  Also just make sure that that part is covered by the owners; there's no _ _ _ _ _ _  - ?:  _ _ _ _- ?: _ _ _  - DM:  q/c?


JW: I have one, YH.  DM:  JW, 2nd time around.   JW:  I would hope that the city clerk would make that part of the Journal on my reason for not voting.  DM:  I'm sure PP will approve that.  Any other q/c?  All in favor of the motion Bill #1684, Ord 1558 signify - (voice vote & roll call:  Yes: BL, RC, DA, RS, TB, RH.  No:  JW.)  PP:  6 yes, 1 no, sir.  DM:  The motion for aproval on the 2nd reading.   RS:  Move approval.   DM:  RS moves; is there a 2nd?  DA:  2nd.  DM:   DA 2nd. Is there any other further q/c?


JW:   One more, YH.  Uh, this fee, am I correct, it doubled?  Was it 25 & went to 50?  DM:  I believe it was $35;  BL, do uno? BL: JB, could you _ _ _ _?   JB:  Current fees are $35 for a house, $20 for an apartmt.  DM:  JB, Is there a reason apartmts should be $50 & this is more than double?  I guess, I mean, I believe you said - I'm not puttin' you on the spot - but I believe your name was mentioned earlier for bringing it up.  _ _ your estimation, apartmts need to be $50 or - people move in & out more, is there - _ _ it still be _ _?  


JB:   We go back to apartmts more than we do houses.  Um it's really just labor. It takes more time to do everything.  DM:  Ok.  Since there was some uh concern over rates & bids, I just want to get clarified $50 is justified.  & $100, I like the idea of that so people don't try to, owners in particular, might want to, hopefully they'll be more - working with the city better I guess is what I'm tryin' to say. Try to get people in ahead of time so they don't slip an extra $50, try to skip the $50 fee. Any other ques for JB?  


RH:  I just have one. The idea of this ord in case anybody - I think everybody understands, people move in first;  he has to go in;  work around furniture, boxes;  so we're trying to teach uh the people that rent properties to get the inspection first like they're supposed to & we won't have a problem with that.


DM: I'd like to, in addition to what you, your cmts, RH, I think if somebody does move in & move out again, so we've missed an entire inspection issuance.  Alright, tku, JB.  Any other ques on the uh 2nd reading?  Roll call vote, PP.  PP: _ _ - DM:  I believe it spelled _ _ _ - PP: _ _ 2nd reading for Bill 1684, Ord 1558, Amendmt to Sec 500.120 mccvp to change occupancy inspection fees.  DM: Roll call vote, please, PP, 2nd reading.   PP:  Roll call vote for the 2nd reading - (Yes:  RH, TB, RS, DA, RC, BL.  No:  JW.)  PP:  6 yes, 1 no, sir.   DM:  Motion passes & carries with (someone coughs) six, one.


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  13 of  35


Bill #1685 - PP:  This _ _ _  gonna be1559.  DM:  Read it in caption form please, PP.   PP:  Bill 1685, an amendmt to Sec 500.110 of the mccvp to change commercial occupany inspection fees.   RS:  Move approval.  DA:  2nd. DM:  Moved by RS.  2nd by DA.  q/c?  TB:   Yes, YH, Could you tell us what these fees increased to?  DM:  What the old fees were?  TB:  Yes.  JB:  Commercial occupancy inspections were $35.  DM:  Size of the bldg or anything matter or just - JB:  No.  DM:  $35. TB, you still have the floor _ _.  Any other ques, TB?  JW.


JW: I don't know how we can be off & not keep the same increase for our fees.  How can we make one jump more than the other & I think we're trying to RUN bizs out of town instead of bringin' 'em in;  & my main concern is to collect some taxes from the bizs who aren't payin' ANY to City VP, who reside in VP.  So I'll be votin' against this too & hopefully we can go collect bizs who aren't paying.   DM:  Tku, JW. q/c?


RS: YH, I got a cmt.  Um, I'd just like to say that this has been an issue for a long time.  It seems like every, every ald packet get, um it shows where we have bizs that just moved in;  & then JB spends numerous times sittin' down there on that computer puttin' letters together to send them for them to come in & uno, to actually get an occupancy permit. & then after 10 or so , then uno, I know sends 'em a letter on their biz license.  I mean it's just a continuin' thing.  Sometimes or another we have to draw a line;  & I feel this is a pretty good line.  At least if someone's moved in & he has to walk around um equipmt & boxes or what-have-you, or, or any kind of equipmt in their bldg to look at the electrical & make sure all the electrical is up to code;  & if, uno, make sure it's up to par with covers on it & everything else, he can't, he can't perform his duties properly.  So I'm gonna support this.  DM:  Tku, RS. q/c?  JW: YH.  DM:  JW, 2nd time around.  


JW: I hope the police dept doesn't double their speedin' ticket because they missed a couple on Vance Rd.  (aud laughs)  DM:  Better not charge 'em by _ _ _ _.  q/c?  Roll call, er _ _ _ 1st reading, uh - PP?: _ _ _  - ?:  _ _ -  DM:  Any other q/c?  All in favor of the motion, say aye. (ayes)  All opposed? (one heard)  Roll call vote, please, on the 1st reading.   PP: Roll call, 1st reading - (Yes:  BL, RC, DA, RS, TB, RH.  No:  JW.) 6 yes, 1 no, sir.   DM:  Motion carries 6 yes, 1 no.


2nd read - DA:  Move approval of Bill 1685, Proposed Ord 1559 on its 2nd & final reading.  ?: 2nd - DM:  _ _ Was that BL or was that RC?  q/c?   DA:   One cmt, YH, I'm gonna support this ord. Again, I, it's been a, a long time & since the um fees have been set up um to do this, several yrs ago City VP BOA had to pass on a increase for sanitation of yard waste to be able um to continue to provide this svc.   Um & I think that for us to continue to provide this svc, um without uno um, uno, operating in the negative on this um this function, we need to pass this bill on.

Tku. DM:  Tku, DA.  q/c?  Roll call vote, please, on the 2nd reading.   PP: 2nd reading for 16, Bill 1685, Ord 1559, an amendmt to Sec 500.110 mccvp to change comm occupancy inspection fees. (Yes:  BL, RC, DA, RS, TB, RH.  No:  JW.)  6 yes, 1 no, motion carried.   DM: Tku, PP.


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  14 of  35


Next on the Mayor's Report, uh - RC: This resolution.  JW: YH, Was that in the packet or just layin' on the bench?  DM:  I believe it was handed out before the mtg.  JW:  Does it have to be properly posted then?   DM:  A resolution has to be read in full, so _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _resolution, please.  PP:  In its entirety?  DM:  Yes.


PP:  A Resolution, will be 6302, pertaining to the Advice & Consent of the BOA regard the appointmt of an aldermanic vacancy in the 4th Ward.  Whereas a vacancy in the 4th Ward currently exists due to the election of the prior ofc-holder to the ofc of mayor, & whereas Sec 79.280 of the MO Statute requires that the mayor obtain the Advice & Consent of the BOA regardin' such appointmt & whereas the BOA have given their advice to the mayor that all appointmts & re-appointmts to vacant city ofcs must be made prior to the bd consideration of its consent to the mayoral appointmt of the vacancy in the 4th Ward.  Now therefore, be it resolved by the City of VP, MO as follows:  in order to enable City VP, MO to maintain its svcs on a daily basis, the BOA calls on the mayor to make all appointmts or re-appointmts to vacant city ofcs prior to the BOA's consideration of its consent to the approval of his appointmt to the vacancy in the 4th Ward for the ofc of ald.


RC:  YH, I'll , I'll move in that direction.  DM: Is there a 2nd?   DA:  2nd.  JW:  _ _ discussion, YH.   There's been an awful lot of resolutions comin' in front of the desk since you're become mayor; but I personally believe they're uh pre_ _ the in ord form because the mayor has veto power.  & I think this is another delay tactic so the mayor cannot fill the 4th Ward seat.  You went thru 3 or 4 individuals;  it's awful funny there's 2 or 3 ald who are supportive & the other ones uh won't even consider it.  They say, well we want to talk to 'em.  Uh, they talk to 'em.  That's still don't work.  I believe they just don't want that seat filled with anybody but someone they feel is gonna play ball with 'em.  DM:  Tku, JW.(aud applauds)   q/c?


DA:   Yes, the only cmt - the um position of that uh that empty position is a very important & powerful position.  & I cannot fault an ald sitting this position to make sure that the person fillin' that supports their um, um their goals & ideas as the mayor would hope to find somebody that will support his.   & it's, it's just uh, at this point, a uh, a lack of comin' up with that person that fits both. (someone coughs) _ original agreemt & whether the mayor would want to take knowledge or not, that's certainly his um prerogative, um, that there are , are many key appointmts still needing to be made.  Um & there was an agreemt, unofc'l agreemt as it may be, was made that we would fill those positions first.  I would like to support that.

However, this is a resolution um which is really bears very little legal um, um strength;  it's just a, a recommending um resolution. So again, it's not that I'm tryin' to hold the mayor up, but again, I'm, there are, they're key positions & um appointmts that I wanna make sure are made that support the agenda that I, & I would believe some of the other ald hold;  & this is certainly nothing personal. (aud mumblings)


DM:   If I may respond - the uh, there was talk I guess, you're saying agreemt, of holding the appointmt. Well, first of all the appointmt is made at a special mtg, so I would not have been able to make that appointmt the first being, or beginning mayor anyway;  & I did go thru all the appointmts at that night;  tho they were not approved that night.  I know a few were held over, but I feel that um there's still - we got most of 'em filled now except for the parks coordr & the assistant court clerk which I hope we can get filled tonight.  There are some others that are possible to be changed, but there are, everything else was (someone coughs) (there?) in time is filled I think; but I did not _ _ this would go on for 2 months, but I talked about we would have the uh, this held open & would give most the spots to.


I guess it's not Ward 4's fault, I guess you'd say, that their seat is now open;  they're rep'd by 1 ald, where other wards have 2 ald;  but I guess right now they're paying the same taxes they were paying before, but getting less representation up here. So I hope we can come to agreemt by the next mtg or where somebody we can get to fill this spot;  in fact would be something put to the side & not causing a, a fiscal concern.   RS, did you have a cmt or - RS:  No, you answered it. DM:  q/c?

6/3/02 BOA - Sec  15 of  35


JW:  Did you auth (authorize), or who - did the city atty draw up this resolution?  & if so, did the full bd authorize paymt for him to do this?  I notice it's uh got the Pres of the Bd down here instead of the, the mayor.  I just wondered what the logic was - why the mayor wouldn't be down there on like most ords & resolutions.   Uh, did they think that you wouldn't sign this, or did you auth this?  DM:  Uh, first of all, I did not auth it.  I did not approve of it.  EM, did you write this resolution?


EM:  Uh, it was typed in my ofc, but not written by (pause) (me?).  (aud "laughs" loudly)  DM?: Who auth'd it?  RC: I'll be happy to (aud is still "laughing" & now commenting:  look at _;  a joke!)  I'll be happy to shed some light on it.   Uh, obviously, uh there's a difference of opinion on, on exactly what the Advice & the uh Consent is between several members of the bd & yourself. & I felt like that , uno, by trying to extend this uh in the form of a resolution, uh that it would clear that up a little bit. I'm, I'm understanding that people want representation & I'm, I'm afraid that we're not getting the communication because maybe we all aren't interpreting this law the same way.


So, so I felt that if we could, could bring in  - a lot of heavy emphasis has been placed on, on you making the appointmt & us making the approval.  & before that action really works, you've gotta kind of put the hinges on the gate, so to speak, so it'll swing in & out;  & those hinges are the Advice & Consent part. So I would hope that, that you would see this as a uh, an olive branch & that we're trying (aud erupts with "laughter"), & we're trying to prove.  (one gavel bang)  DM: Tku, RC.


RC:   Uh, I, I, I, I just want, hope you see it as that because I believe that maybe that's part of what's happening here & we can elaborate more on Advice & , & Consent.  I will be happy to have that put into a LEG Cmte, uh the Advice & Consent portion, but I would like to see this go ahead & go thru because uh that's - I just feel like we just need to start somewhere.


DM:   Well, I appreciate your uh cmts.  I do not personally see it as an olive branch, but that's the way you wish to see it (aud chuckles), uno, that's fine.   I hope we, I say again as I said earlier, I'll make it work out _ _ _ see here - I do not see see why one ward should be penalized.  But 2 yrs ago, I, I'm not sure when _ _the first _ _ _ when I went out for the ward's ald at the time, ald, er then ald, soon-to-become mayor, FP, appointed his replacemt in the seat 2 yrs prior to that.  Ald Adams then became mayor & he appointed his replacemt there.  I didn't see that as - because he didn't stand out in the rain or whatever during the election, he was not allowed to appoint somebody to fill his seat.  Now that seems to be a problem.


One of the things that I have under the Mayor's Report coming up, is an ord.  I hope the bd would consider this in the LEG Cmte - where if somebody, who's term will not be expiring that coming April, runs for mayor, their seat on, or resigning as of that election so that they do not, their ward then would have the opportunity to vote on somebody who was running for mayor that yr.  Then, even if they don't win, then that's, they just, I guess they're out for a yr.


RC:  YH, I'll respond to that.  I think that's an excellent suggestion because that's realy how we got here.  DM:  Any other q/c on the resolution itself?  TB:  This kind of seems like a lot of unnecessary paperwork, this resolution here.  & yet I think you proposed several good people that would (AP:  I agree.)  have been a good ald to have.  & I mean we had a police ofcr, I mean, I think you kind of consider them to have good advice, or they're in kind of a position, especially since 911, a place of honor almost, & they voted down.  So I don't know what it would take to get somebody in there.  (AP:  Good for you, Tom.)


DM:  Tku.  Any other q/c on the resolution?  DA:  Only one other cmt - & again, I'm not gonna bicker & argue tonight that there have been several suggestions made to the mayor.  However, they did not fit his criteria & I cannot condemn you for that. (aud expresses great dismay & snide cmts) it's just a matter of what you're looking for as a replacemt, & (AP:  You're a joke!)  & what WE are looking for.  So again, it's a matter of uh the dis uh, a different opinion right now. AP?:  What are you lookin' for?


DM:  All in favor of Resolution 060302, say aye - (voice vote & roll call:  Yes:  BL, RC, DA, RS. No:  JW, TB, RH.)  PP:  4 yes, 3 no.  DM:  Resolution carries, 4 yes & 3 no.


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  16 of  35


Under the Mayor's Report, I'm sorry for uh Roxanne Rupple .  I haven't seen you in such a long time, I hope she's uh paid warrant for this.  _ _ _ _ _  can get her appointmt uh, completed here;   appoint her as the assistant court clerk.  She's certainly, er currently working in our cout's, er clerk's ofc here.  _ _ _ _ _ she's done a very good job up there;  so I'd appreciate a motion for Roxanne Rupple to be uh the assistant court clerk since Miss Cassie Whitteaker runs our, our court ofc.  JW:  Move approval.  TB?:  I'll 2nd it.  DM:  q/c?


JW: I have one, YH. I shouldn't support this motion because the city clerk's job description says that he should be doin' this, but I'm gonna go ahead & uh honor the mayor's request.  DM:  _ _ _ Miss Rupple has agreed to work to take on this position & PP said that probably he's got enough other things on his plate already.  So I _ _ _ _ _ them working for this uh position here to help (audience mumbles) , help out the city.  So I _ _ _ _ _ _  approval of this appointmt as Roxanne Rupple as our assistant court clerk. q/c?


RS:  How much will this uh position pay?  DM:  It pays $100 for each court session that she would work assisting _ _ _ _ _  which is once a month.  RS:  How much does she - what does she do now?  DM:  She works as I say, as an ofc clerk-type - is it ofc, ofc clerk assistant?  I'm not sure.  ?:  ofc clerk.  DM:  kind of assisting & in the ofc, also JB _ _ _ _ _.  ?: _ _ _ _ _ -


DM:  _ _ duties in the ofc & then I guess one night a wk, or one night a month on this.  RS:  & then she's bein' paid for ofc work & plus she's bein' paid for um bldg cmsnr sec'y?  DM: Right now, all the pay is coming out of the uh bldg inspector's ofc.  RS: So she's bein' paid _ _ wks _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ofc, but she's doin' something different?  DM:  That is correct. q/c?


RC:  Yes, YR, uh I'll, I'll be voting no because I really want her to do the P&Z & I don't want to get her plate filled just like uno (have another 2 portions?) .  DM:  Do you have a recommendation of _ _ _ P&Z is?  RC:   Uh, no, I, I really think Roxanne would be the right one for positions;   she's, she's kind of been broken into to how it works &, & I'd like to have her doing P&Z, &, & I don't want to get her caught up with the court as well as P&Z.


DM: Well, as JW pointed out, the uh job-title descriptions from last yr said that the city clerk rather would be doing the assistant uh court clerk's work.   Do you recommend that that's - RC:  I would, I'd be happy to make a , a motion if it's in order, to put that into LEG & see if, & correct that & have something by next _ _ _, if you would like;   I mean, either way _ _ _ _ _.   DM:  q/c?


BL: Yes, YH, I'm, I apologize. I was under the assumption & I, I guess now that it's been brought to my attn, we voted to change this, but I was under the asumption that the assistant court clerk was on a time-&-a-half rate, which, I know some nights, court can be drag (someone coughs) , but other nights, they're in & out pretty quick. Basically, we give them $100 regardless, because a 2-hr court night, or 4 hrs -


DM:  I think it's really under hour & a half, probably 2 hrs.  But the uh pay isn't uh what's at, under the conversation here as the person who's (pulling?) the job;  but you are correct;  it's a $100 whether it's 2 hrs or 4 hrs. BL:  Alright, I do apologize because I was under the impression that uh (still sell?) time & a half basis.


DA: Um, I would ask that, with consideration of this, the position that is neither for the P&Z - um , I, I don't want to put a person in too many positions that there are um other opportunities for other employees to um, uh set in on those & fill that position.  I would ask that if this motion passes, that you consider doing that.  I would just ask that as a, uh a, a request.  DM:   Tku. I'd like to add that um _ _ _ the last mtg, I appointed Roxanne Rupple as you recall as the assistant court clerk & the only cmt was to have her come in & be here at the mtg, which she has graciously done;  & now that she's here, I don't see how that's affecting any of your votes.   So I just kind of - I agree that she's come in here to help out the city, not only here, so that ald had the opportunity to ask her questions, but in general, she's working on the one night a month there where we have a court clerk;  & I hope you give that consideration that she's here working for the city.


TB: YH, Which uh, which job would Miss Rupple feel more comfortable with?   Evidently, she, she came in here for our ques tonight;  _ she'd just like to have this job over the secretary's.  DM:   Mind stepping up to the mircophone here.  It's like I say, I've talked to her before & she worked with, uh said she would like to work with this position.  I've talked to Miss Whitteaker & she said that she feels comfortable working with her as well, that they feel the two of them would be good at court sessions, but I'll let her speak for herself.  MsR: _ _ _  - DM:  Repeat your ques, please.


TB: _ _ _ _ which job she felt more comfortable with, uno, court position, court clerk position, or as RC pointed...(exchange tapes)...JW: ...Uno, uh I believe those are on 2 separate nights & I know she's capable of doin' both jobs.  I know uh she's probably like the rest of us;  she could uh use the money.   & uh, I think that the assistant court clerk doesn't have a whole lot of duties that night that would carry into any other hrs of her scheduling.  So I believe she could uh handle 'em both.  I know she just said she has a preference, which one if she had to pick, but I bet that if you'd ask her could she do both, she'd tell you yes, then you want to ask her that.


DM:  Could you do both jobs?  MsR:  I could do both .  DM:  Tku.  JW:  Tku.   DM:  In the uh budget, I've got some money in there for a person from the high school working a part-time help out, Mrs. Helton in the ofc or whoever is the secretary in the future, but hopefully Mrs. Helton stay on now;  she's done a good job of supportin' me up to this point.  & also, since like JB, with a lot of the filing, we had to move a lot of the files downstairs which were already a bit out of order because of the past fear of the uh, forecast of the flood I guess - fortunately we didn't get flooded here - but because of the forecast, the files had to be moved around again, so that person could even _ _ _ towards that area;  perhaps the high school could help fill in on the P&Z nights as well;  something to consider as we're going thru the budget process.


But right now again, I would approve, er appreciate approval on this motion here for Miss Roxanne Ruple as the assistant court clerk.  q/c?  BL:  As far as your personal time-schedule, it would be 2 nights & I mean sometimes P&Z meets more than once a month.  Would that be ok with you?  MsR:  Yeah, P&Z's only once a month.  BL:  Well, sometimes, if we need an extra mtg, we have an option to call it.  MsR:  _ _ _ -
DA:  For clarification of what we are voting on now is her appointmt to the assistant court clerk - DM:  Assistant court clerk is strictly the motion _ _ _.  All in favor of the motion of Miss Roxanne Rupple as the assistant court clerk - (voice vote & roll call:  Yes:  BL, JW, DA, TB.  No:  RC, RS.  Abstain:  RH.)   PP:  RH still abstains, RH abstains, we have 4 yes & 2 no, 1 abstain.   DM:  Motion carries, 4 yes, 2 no, 1 abstention. Tku.  (a train whistles by!)  BL:  _ _ _ _ check the roll content, please.  DM: _ _ _  - PP:  I have 4 yes, 2 no & 1 abstention.  BL: Tku.


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  17 of  35


DM: Next is under library, I've gotten a letter from (sound system feedback), let me verify, Bonnie Morris, Librarian, asked that Joan Shoop be appointed to the library bd;  so appreciate a motion for Joan, approval of Joan Shoop.   Was that JW?  JW: Yes, YH.  DM:   Is there a 2nd?  ?:  2nd. DM:  2nd by RS.  q/c?  DA:  Just one quick, YH, is that person here?  MrsS: Yes, who's talking? DA:  It's Mayor Adams.  MrsS: Oh, I couldn't see you.  DA:  I mean Ald Adams.  No, I didn't  know you, but um you're wishin' to do this position?  MrsS: Yes.   DM:  Any other ques, DA?  DA:  No, tku.  DM:  Any other q/c?  
RS: YH, I guess I have one;   this IS your recommendation, right?  DM:  Well, the librarian did 1st & I agree with her recommendation;  it is my recommendation that based mainly on uh from the librarian, yes.  RS:  'cause I'm goin' by what you're tellin' me,  _ _ - DM:  It's my recommen, my appointmt, but I'm agreeing with the uh library bd on this.  q/c?  

BL:   I have a ques, YH. I know in the past we've tried to balance boards of cmtes like parks & P&Z.  Um, how many bd members are on the actual parks bd that are nominated & approved _ _ _ by the bd & mayor?  DM:  Afraid I don't know the answer to that, but I'd like to point out that about 3/4 of Ward 4 is not in the uh parks dist, so people naturally have less _ _ _, I think we have less representation.  

BL:  The library dist?  DM:  For the library dist, yes.  A good portion of it's in St L County, altho there is a reciprocal agreemt between the two that who, whoever is in the county library can use the city & the city vice versa.  (Plan?) to see that get approved & I don't want _ _ _ _ against the bd or anything because _ _ _ _ construction.   But as far as the # of members, I apologize I do not know how many are on there.  BL:  Ok, tku.  DM:  q/c?  
All in favor of Miss or Mrs Joan Shoop as the librarian, er cmte member - (voice vote - none heard opposed)


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  18 of  35


As I mentioned earlier, I was talking about the other day, an ord that if an ald is running for mayor, probably not be coming up, he would be required to resign at the date of the election so that we not get into a, I guess discussion or argumt over who should the replacemt should be. So I'd like to ask for a motion for that to be placed in the LEG Cmte.  RC:  So move, YH.  DM: RC.  Is there a 2nd?  RS&JW:  2nd.  DM:  RS. q/c?  

DA: One question - would it be more appropriate that we uh make the motion to have the city atty draft an ord?  'cause I'm, I'm sure there's like-legislation available to compare this to.  DM:  Well, I think first, we want to know whether or not we want it, rather than have EM write it up & then find out;  unless you would like to make it for - DA? while DM is speaking: Motion, motion - DM: if we move to approve it tonight, or moved it for it to be drawn up tonight, I guess that would be worth giving approval for this ord.  DA?:  Motion to approve.  DM: If uh RC would like to withdraw his original motion, we could have EM go ahead & draw up the motion for _ _ -

EM: I, I tell ya, I think there's come serious constitutional problems with what you, you guys intend on doing.  Maybe I'd better research it first & then (people mumbling) paperwork.  TB: YH.  EM: Yeah, I, I mean the, the, the statute says you're elected for a term of 2 yrs & under the terms, yeah, a yr & 9 mos.  

DM:  Based on legal advice, I'd like to have the LEG Cmte look at it & meanwhile EM can look into the um constitutionality of the motion that we're uh discussing.  TB, Do you have a ques?  TB:  This sounds like a good idea, but just like uh (chariot?) says, it probably isn't legal, but I mean it's, I don't know, I haven't seen many senators, if you're running for Pres, give up their, senators _ their seat, if they're senators & such, uh I mean would be (chuckle) - if would be a whole lot easier for us if they were to do that;  but uh _ _ _ _ is gonna throw the whole balance of it off tho as far as _ _ terms.

DM:  Alright, since uh there is apparent problem over the legality of this, once again I'd like to have the LEG Cmte review this & in additon, EM come back with a decision for us with an explanation. (stage people mumbling) RS: YH, did you support that, didn't you?  DM: Yes, I did;  I do now, it's just _ _ _.   (they mumble more) Well, I'd at least like to have LEG Cmte look at it & see, based on what's in EM's -

RS: I just, I'm just curious.   I, I knew um you had mentioned it before & I would thought you supported it pretty strong.  RC: YH, Are, are we saying that uh we'll look at in LEG as well as the city atty will write opinion on it?  DM:   That's what I'd like to, that's what I, yes, that's all I'm asking. BL: It's my understanding that uh we did budget some money for LEG & I still have available;  so if you could attend the mtg also, just for that period of time, it'd be scheduled _ _ _ I'll make sure _ _ _.  

DM:   Excuse me, tku. Also I guess, since we're discussing LEG Cmte, RC brought up trailer length;  we could go ahead, I guess place it under by executive session, uh LEG Cmte.  RC: YH, did we vote on this _ _? We're not voting on that?  DM:  Um, all in favor of the motion for this to be in LEG Cmte - (voice vote - none heard opposed)    


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  19 of  35


The uh trailer length ord, _ care to make a motion to put this in LEG Cmte?  RC: Uh, yes, sir, I'd like to make that motion. Uh, I have a resident who, I think it just kind of fell thru the cracks & I just wanna get some - DM:  Is there a 2nd?   DA: 2nd with a cmt.  YH, You, if, if, on issues that uh you deem necessary to place into cmte, you can do that by exec order;  if they are issues that you um are not necessarily supporting;  that's when a, a motion (someone coughs) _.   DM:  Since this was discussed before, I do support this (ending?), but I'll just try to clarify this.  I'll go ahead & place this by exec decision into a LEG Ctme, discussion on trailer lengths.  

JW: Just for a point of clarification, the current ord would be in force, correct?  DM:  For trailers?  JW:  Yeah, 'cause there is a length we have in our ord book right now.  DM: But until it's changed, that's, that's the law, yes.  RH:  What is the length?  DM:  30 & 25 I think for campers, the length is 30' & boat trailer is 25 as I remember. (stage people mumble)  RC: YH, I, I think it'd be a good idea ta get some real clarification 'cause this is what started all that bd of adjustmts problem;  & we, we just never really got a base-line on it.  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  20 of  35


DM :  Like I say, uh which here items here for Mayor's Report uh, the uh safe combination - is that your company we deal with I guess for - RC:  Yes, YH, I, I, I did a little research on this because uh one of my jobs where I work is, is having to be able to change the safe combinations like I'm sure you do where you work.  & um what I'm finding out is that we have a, like a 1917 + safe;  it's very old & there's a little key, it's a, called a change key , it's a little, little small gadget that seats in & turns ;  & I'm not sure we're gonna be able like to get another change-key for this thing.   & I'm, I'm wondering, can we uh as a bd, uh it's not that much money, but we almost need to have a locksmith come over & determine if this, the combination could be changed.

DM:  Do you have a fee in mind?  Since this is so old, it might be cheaper to buy a new safe.  RC:  That's what I'm wondering.  Would we rather just go for a new safe & uh that way, we wouldn't have to _ _ _ know that?   I mean uh, I think we could get a locksmith to come over &, & for, for an estimate if we could authorize maybe the uh, uh the city clerk to uh talk in that direction.  It's something needs to be dealt with _ _ _.  

RS: Have you found a problem with this _?  DM:  I've not found a problem, no.  RS:  What, what was the reason for bringing this up?   DM:  RC, is there - RC: Well, periodically, all safes need to have a combination change & with the change in personnel, it was thought - I mean it's just kind of a nice thing to do.   I'm, I'm not sure it's ever been changed. (mumblings )

RS: YH, Would you like to check into seein' how much this is gonna cost, just by um givin' a phone call to a couple places & comin' back with it?  DM:  I'll have PP check & see the costs & bring it back to the bd that - does that sound satisfactory, RC , that - (mumblings continue) RC:  I'd just like to do something that was kind of wrong so we can get in the right direction. (mumblings increase)  DM: _ _ that's the right direction.  

JW: How can RC know what the safe combination is & what we need in there?  DM:  I'm assuming (mumblings continue & AP:  he knew)  the same combination _ _ _   RC:  YH, I DON'T know the combination, but I, I have uh, the fact of the combination is very familiar to uh to Sergeant Greenwood;  & I've got uh
probably between 5 yrs of experience where I work with _ _.  DM:  Like I said, PP will check into this & see what we can find, what it would cost to change the combination.  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  21 of  35


Plaques - a lady gave me a list before - if you could refresh my memory.   RC: Yes, YH, I think uh there were several plaques that might be _.  Uh, I'd go with a motion to uh have some plaques made up for uh, uh MP , uh let's see, we need to go with FP - JW:  _ _ - RC:  Uh, yeah, got uh MW & uh, see, there were a couple others, Joyce Brust & I don't think Carol Staley was uh honored for her services.  (audience mumbles & giggles)  
DM:  Ok, I've got MP, FP, MW & Joyce Brust & CS.  RC: Yes, yes, sir.   DM: Alright, I have _ _ _, I guess based on the past plaques was a kind of a guide for working with the _ _ _.  RC: I'm pretty sure that they can work something out.   DM: Tku.   RC:  Do I need to ask for a $ amt, YH?  Is that something you want?  DM:  _ _ what it's gonna cost - RC:  Maybe set a limit of $35?  DM: 35 , um (audience mumbling)


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  22 of  35


I guess fees, we'll do that when JB comes up I guess, check fees on refrigerators, stops signs.  Uh, the internet, I'd like to do is look into - we'll wait for JB to come up since he's (pause)  - JW: _ _ _ ques? DM: If we set a router, would we be able to tie in 4 different uh set our computers up to the internet if we ran it into the ofc _ _?  JB:  Yes.  DM:  Like I say, at the uh, continue at the secretary's ofc, in her ofc, uh city clerk & PP _ _ & we'll see if any of the _ _ _ _ _.  JB: Ok. DM: JW, Did you have a ques?  
JW: Uh yes, I'm, I've been in the mayor's secretary, & I know that uh she already has the internet & the library has the intenet;  couldn't uh PP walk into either one of those 2?  Or how often do you really need the internet for things besides entertainmt?  (aud mumbling)   RC: Uh, YH, uh we were uh, as you recall, over here one evening fairly late, & we were uh trying to ascertain the level of the river & I, I know that you were fairly well uncomfortable with leaving your ofc open so that we might be able to ascertain that.  The other thing is, we really are not uh caretakers, custodians of the library. Uh, there is no add'l charge I don't think for this;  it's just a matter of, of putting them into the right computers.  So I would hope that everybody understands this is just sort of - if someone wants to communicate with the city, that they could do that based on our uh having the internet.  

DM:  I'll have my secretary check into that & see what we can do for the cost;  like I say, to tie in 3 computers.  I was hoping also to get uh
REGIS set up in the city here;  way that everybody'd have the whole system _ _ tied into any of the areas where - just keep our records right here so we could get tied into the rest of the county.  I think that'd be a big improvemt _ _ _  that's another thing, if we could work REGIS & the internet in conjunction with this so that -  get more people on the internet here & also be on REGIS, which will _ _ court sytem further _ _ _.  _ _, JB.

6/3/02 BOA - Sec  23 of  35

Clerk's Report .  I'll get the rest of your items as they come up, but remind me _ _ _.  JB: Tks, that's fine.   PP:  I think, sir, I have one ques, to executive session.  DM:  Alright.   Bldg Cmsnr Report.
BL: YH, I'm sorry, one item - on the Clerk's Report in the packet is the U.S. Pawn.  Did that resolve itself as far as uh licenses or _ _ - when you asked me to bring it up. DM:  He was issued a license (PP shows DM a paper) - one second - 3 or 4 wks ago, I remember signing _ _ _. PP:  We did the investigation per request of - uh, the investigation has started;   uh should have that report soon; _ _ _ everything looks good so far on the investigation - that he, he has paid all the fees, the required fees. BL: Tku.  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  24 of  35


DM:  I'd like to add one more item under the Mayor's Report here - the prosecuting atty;  BL, you had brought that up. BL: Yes, YH, I was hoping that uh possibly by exec order, that you would place that in LEG. I know there have been several occasions this has come up.  Uh several ald asked where we are on it, & I just thought if we, since I was gonna call a mtg anyway, that we would uh add this to the agenda & we could discuss it, uh as far as where we're at.  DM:  I'll place it under LEG Cmte then by exec decision.  Also, I guess we can work in conjunction with FW&M to, uno, make sure we have the money for it as well, both the money & the uh tax _ _ examining positions.  Tku, BL.  BL: Tku.  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  25 of  35


DM:  Ok, now, JB, sorry for the delay.  JB: _ _ - DM:  You have a copy of the storm water plan, JB?  Mr. uh, I guesss Z Eng'g turned one in to us a while back.  _ _ I apologize for not having one with me tonight, but I'd like to get this workin' with this.  I was looking at Fund 17 money & _ _ _ levee _.  

JB:  When Z dropped that um report off, they gave me just enough copies for BOA & the city eng.  We're trying to locate an extra copy, uno, & we did get a grant some time ago to do a storm water study on the west side of town.  DM:  Strictly the west side of town or - JB: There's a storm water study that Z claims is close to 75, uh 80% complete on the west side of town.  I think it's from the RR tracks east, sorry. Um, we did get a grant last yr to do a storm water study from the RR tracks west.

JW: Tku, YH, & uh just for clarification, I want to know because the budget process is comin' & as you well know, that's probably our largest fund that we have to allocate.  So that's why I'm showin' concern - anybody who's interested.  DM:  What I'm gettin' up here, I'm - it says JB & RC lookin' at 207 & 209 Crescent Ave.  RC.

RC: Yes, YH, this P&Z, if you do it right, its 100 yrs of happiness;  sometimes you do it wrong & it could be 100 yrs of a mess.  & we had 2 projects come up which I'm, I'm tellin' the bd should be apprised of;  uh very briefly, I'll let JB kind of pick it up from here, but I'd like for him to explain the 207 & 209 project & sort of the outcome of it on Crescent.
JB:  207, 209, uh is vacant land located adjacent to Clifford's Condo's & Old Crescent Rd.   Uh several proposals for this property have been presented in the past.  Um, here recently, another one was submitted for a 6-lot subdivision. Um, the P&Z Cmsn has tabled this item pending the receipt of a findings of fact.   Um, I do believe the item will be loaded down also.  It's a 2-acre tract that really doesn't lend itself to dev;   uh but it's gonna cause some storm water issues with adjacent residents & some road, the safety of the road is a major factor.  
DM:  Anything further, RC?  RC:  We can go to the next one if you'd like, YH. JW : YH, I've got a ques on that same issue.  I also attended that mtg & isn't it true that the larger dev, the major concern was the  LOT SIZE & nobody wanted starter, so-called starter homes & that uh devr did agree to raise the sq footage substantial, but he wasn't & he didn't raise the sq footage on his lot?  JB: That's the next dev, not on this one. (stage people mumble)


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  26 of  35


DM:  Biz at 248 Crescent.  RC : This uh, I'd like to have him address the Crescent Springs.  There, there's um, currently a (someone coughs) _-house subdiv being proposed at uh approx'ly 202 Crescent Ave. It uh, the issues at hand were this, the width of the lot; there was over 100 residents from that area which came to the mtg & there were petitions;  & basically the petition uh boiled down uh, probably 80 of the residents at least, said they wanted lots to be 75-ft wide & the rest of the folks was at 60 to 75.  

The , the uh problem & what I want to bring to the bd's attn, is the fact that one of the statemts made by the devr was, since when does the P&Z listen to the residents? & I thought that was a , a very compelling ques & it sort of got sidetracked in all the noise.  & what I would hope is that uh, the BOA uh, if they could possibly make it to the eleven June mtg, uh J B might be able to explain a little bit at this point, but I believe that we all should be listening.  & I, I, I apologize if this sounds um - if they're here, I would try to get that explanation;  but I, I would like to see those lots to be at least 65 ft.  

DM:  Well, I think since this is a P&Z issue, that we just like simply state that the ald should come to the P&Z mtg, or at least meet with residents _ _ _ or beforehand. RC:  If JB has any cmts on that, I, I would appreciate - DM:  _ _ say again, since this is in cmte, I don't feel it's probably proper time to bring up your support mtg.  The uh, could we go onto biz at 24, er biz across the street rather from 248 Crescent Ave?  Are you aware of a biz there?  


RC:  Uh, yes, YH.  I would like ta have the uh cmty dev dir uh just maybe drive down &, & look & see what's going on there;  maybe get back to uh, to me & perhaps you & the other ald in the ward as to what's goin' on.  DM:  Check that - JB: I can check that tomorrow. RC: Tku & uh , we need to think about that.


DM:  Property line, Frances - you say it's uh moving, or being in dispute? RC:   Uh, YH, the situation on uh Frances is that we probably have a house that's 5 ft to 6 ft from the property line & I'm afraid what's going to happen is the current owners of the home that lost a ft or so, is going to be pretty much out of luck.  & I'm, I'm, I wanted to ask you & maybe ask the city atty, how can we send a signal to the person bldg that that says nothing will go fwd until you prove that you didn't build this house too close.
DM:  That's to be built?  RC:  Pardon?   DM: Is the house built you said?  RC:  They, they've got the foundation & the footing & everything & uh there's a real concern here & I'd like to ask how can we - DM:  _ _ _ _ _ _ said it's too close?  RC: The, they, they put up stakes & they stretched the tape & then it just doesn't look right & that's what I'm saying is I'd like for JB & maybe EM to give me some consultation on that.  EM:   I, I, I think JB maybe it's, it's really his duty & responsibility to check compliance with the codes & uno, I, I don't know if there's a corner post there or how, however they're shooting, but go ahead.  
JB:  If it's the one I'm thinking of, um that devr did present a stake survey.  Um there was a corner stake on both corners, the front & rear, on the adjacent property line & when I measured the foundation forms, they were 6-1/2 to 7 ft off. EM: You may want to double-check that & - JB: Now that it's been poured over, drive back up there tomorrow & double-check it, but I did check the form. EM?:  Maybe_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.  DM:  If it is over, should he stop construction?  Or should we have, can the city have 'em stop it? EM:  No, sure.

RC:  YH, I'm just _ _ _ that there be some agreemt worked out between who's selling it, uh since if it is too close, I don't think we're gonna get _ _ _. There needs to be some understanding that you just can't build a house that close & not have - DM:  Check & see JB & we'll, hopefully it's gonna be 6 ft  _ _.  JB:  Sure will.  DM: Unless there's anything else for uh
JB that's all I see on _ _ _.  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  27 of  35


I guess saw-cut on streets - is that JM's?  RC: Uh, yes, YH.  DM:  _ _ _ _ _.  JM - Anything to report 1st of all?  JM: Yeah, I have several things in my report, uh YH.  Uh the first thing that I have to report is I rcv'd a letter from the East West Gateway Coord'g Council & it was basically requesting that uno they're doing their planning for the physical yr, fiscal yr '03 thru '07 & wanted to know if the city was still on target for Vance Rd & for Forest Ave.  & so basically their ques was asking, is the city prepared financially & uh ready to proceed with these 2 projects.  & I fax'd this info over to PH Weis & Assoc & he said that they're still on target;  to ask the bd their feelings;  & make sure they still wanted to proceed with this;  & we would fax this recommendation back to 'em. It has to be back to 'em by 6/7.  I, I assume we're still on target, but I'm asking the bd.  

DM:  Is there a motion I guess just to get further - we can take back to them - ?: _ _ - DM:  RH.  Is there a 2nd? ?: _ _ - DM:  RS.  q/c?  RC:  Read the motion, please.  DM:  The bd is in agreemt for the funding of Vance Rd north sidewalk project & the Forest Rd project.  Take this decision back, have TW relay that back to the E W Gateway Coord'g Council.

JW: Just for curiosity, does anybody remember what the city's financial responsibility $ amt was for these 2 items?   'cause I remember the projects, but I can't remember any of the #'s.  But this grant money, uno, sometimes it sounds good - TB: You mean Forest? JW: but sometimes it's matching, it's not too good.   TB: Forest Project, is that what you're talkin' about?  DM:  Forest is one point - JW: _ - DM:  money as I recall, but I'm not sure what the -

RH: Our cost is $300K.  TB:  One was 300K.  DM: & the sidewalks I recall, was total of $240K & we put up 20% & the county, the state put up the other 80%.  q/c?  (voice vote - none heard opposed)  Have TW relay it back that the bd is, it's still our, the city is uh still behind both these projects & the funding.  JM:  That's clear;  I'll contact him tomorrow.   DM:  Tku.  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  28 of  35


JM:  I'm ready to answer whatever ques RC had.   DM: First I guess, cutting, er saw-cut at Sorlee St or do we, er we _ _ _ _ _ _ _?   RC: Well, uh Jim & I have been sort of talking about this off & on for a while. Uh we fixed uh Sorlee with quite a bit of concrete ;  & if you go out & take a look at it & I encourage everybody to do so, it is our PBW.  Uh I would uh, it's, there's, there's some cracking goin' on & while it may be natural cracking, uh, uh I'm saying that every concrete street seems to have expansion joints except the ones we, we're doing. & I, I would really like to say I wannna make a motion that we, we start back up the, the Crescent Rd concrete work, uno, at least 4 a month like sort of we intended to do, & that we saw-cut expansion joint all those that haven't been & that we make it a part of the uh project uh uno, from here on out.  

JW:  I'll 2nd it with discussion, YH.  DM:  JW, go ahead, please.  JW: I agree with uh all the work RC's wantin' do, but I would hope he would get the city eng, who's probably most qualified to go out & check;  see what's caused the problem that's there.  If it is, tear it out or whatever, replace it, find out if we did do anything wrong, or we didn't.  I don't know;  I'm not a concrete specialist, but -

JM:  I was gonna suggest that we ask TW from PH Weis to look at this Sec of street because unless I misunderstood it, I was understood that we saw-cut this road for joints, but they haven't been filled.   Um & as far as 4 slabs per month, um I have never been aware of that.  This project was started before I was appointed in this postion & I was under the understanding that we worked on that during the winter months when there was nothing else we could do. I can, I can work on the saw as long as the bd wants it.  If they don't want me to work on the Vance Rd sidewalk, I can, I can schedule it however that uno, you would feel fit, uh RC.  I just need to make sure everybody's in agreemt;  I'm not, uno, doing something I shouldn't be doing.  

RC:  That's why the motion's 2nd'd, YH, because I think that that was the understanding.  I just want to review the named project.   Like I said, &, & if there is saw-cuts there, then they need to have some kind of expansion put into it so that we won't have whatever's goin' on because it's crackin'.  I can see that.  DM: With the saw-cuts, does it just take a day to fix it & we put the expansion joint in?
TB: YH, _ _ _ _your territory there, but normally, they tar, won't tar (until they or into the?) saw-cut.  JM:  Right, we have, I have not checked, but I, the, the crew was informed to saw-cut (someone coughs) _ street I believe.  They told me it was completed, but we haven't rented a machine & filled the cracks.   Um, we were supposed to do that last Fall (sound system feedback), & the, the mayor & the bd had us doing other things that we didn't get the cracks sealed last Fall.  

RC:  Motion still stands, YH.  DM:  I guess uh PBW will help set up a plan.  I mean the idea is good, but just so we don't get one group ahead of another;  it's _ _ _ _ against other projects.  Are you aware of other projects we could - JM:   YH, I can start 'em up there tomorrow, until the Vance Rd sidewalk starts.   (sound sytem feedback) We could replace as many slabs as we can of Vance Rd sidewalk starts, if that's what the bd would like to do. Uh, but then prioritize once Vance Rd sidewalk starts if that's what, what the bd would have 'em - uno, maybe I can appease everybody & get 4 slabs replaced before Vance Rd sidewalks gets out of the phase that it's in with the eng's & StL Cnty.  

DM:  I was thinking maybe if we did say 2-months work now, or say _ slabs, then kind of trade off;  but try to keep the plan going in general _ _ _ _ - RC:  I just want to get it jump-started again, YH.  I understand it has to get (someone coughs) _.  It, it, we got some pretty good time if you pour & then uh
I'd like to see, whatever the concrete crew's doin' now, I'd like to get 'em back to doin' concrete because they obviously aren't doing concrete.  DM:  Any other q/c on the motion for the saw-cutting?  (voice vote - none heard opposed)  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  29 of  35


Fee, I believe this is under your area.  RC brought up fee for refrigerator pick-up.  What was your uh - RC:  Uh, yes, YH, I, I drove by this refrig about 20 times & I decided I, maybe I'd better ask about it.  I asked the resident.  The resident stated that the city had a policy that if you had a refrig compressor, that there would be a $25 fee.   Uh, I um, I don't know that that ever got by us up here & I'm not sayin' it isn't a good idea, but I am saying that uh, under the circumstances, those who have a compressor-type item that didn't get picked up under large pick-up, I believe we need to - I would make a motion, I believe we need to waive that fee & get it picked up.   & then I would also if, if, if, I would ask you & uh the street dept dir to decide whether they want us to try to pass something like that;  if so, we need to let everybody know.
DM:  _ gives the reason for it - JM:  YH, every resident that reads the newsletter should be aware of that fee.  I can't say whether it was passed or not.  I can tell you under the previous administration about a yr & a half ago, we took refrigs & any appliances;  we hauled them off for free great-big-item clean-up.  But then we got notified from the pers, from the place where we drop our metal, that we could no longer take refrigs, a/c's or freezers with freon.  I approached the mayor & said what do you want us to do.  He said find out what you can do & report back to me.  & I contacted a lady with a co in Illinois that follows all the EPA standards & disposes of the units in the proper way.  & she says if you deliver 'em to us, we can take 'em for $25.  

I informed the mayor of that. I don't know what actions he took, whether it was put into place & we've been doin' it.  & I guarantee if any citizen would care to come & see the mayor's secretary & ask for a copy of the newsletter.  It has been printed in every newsletter since then that we charge $25;  & we have charged uh plenty of residents that have already paid.  I can't give you a figure if it was 50 or 100 residents.  We have charged these residents & it was a current policy that the previous mayor had started.   ?:  Yeah.
DM: Like I say, it's been started before & so JM & I discussed it.  So to continue on with that policy since that's what it cost;  actually, it's $25 to drop 'em off, plus our time for a city worker to drive 'em up there & drop 'em off.  JM: I'm, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sayin' that we shouldn't maybe pass LEG to say if it's legal;  I don't know what's legal or not. I know what the previous administration told me to do & I know that was printed for every citizen to know about it if they read their newsletters.  &, & actually, every ald should've known;  I mean if they read the newsletters they would've been aware that we were charging this fee, um YH.  Um like I said, I can't ques RC's thoughts on what's legal or not.  Uno he maybe probably knows that a lot more than I do, but I can explain to you why we've done it & that the residents have been notified;  that part I do know of.  
JW:  YH, I think that the City of VP supplies one of the best, if not THE best, trash services recycling that's offered for the amt of money that the citizens pay.  & we just doubled the fees for inspections, but if we're gonna pick-up refrigs for free, I just, that just don't make any sense. I think, lookin' at your, if you look at your budget, that sanitation runs a real fine line & needs all the help it can get that uh, I, I don't think we can pick these up for free.  _ _ _ _ _ service, I'd agree that the $25 would make it official;  I did see it in the newsletter.  I know some people that's paid it, but I can't go along with doin' it for free. DM:  Tku, JW.  q/c?  
RS: Um I've had some, a few items, a few items picked up at my home & uno, it's not that difficult to come to city hall & pay a, a few bucks for what little bit for tires, dishwater or washin' machines or stoves or what-have-you.  Um seems like it's a pretty good deal;  I know it has been for me.  So if we're chargin' a, a set fee, because we have to spend money to get rid of 'em, _ _.  


JM:  There is a lot of items, RC, (sound system feedback) that we do not either pick up or we, we charge for pick up.  I can't tell you how they came about & what kind of LEG;  uno, I'm not disputin' with you what we should do;  I'm just statin' the facts that this is how it came about & this is what we've done, & that we have notified the citizens.  

RC: YH, the reason I'm bringing this up is because it was a mayor & a street dept dir decision & it didn't come thru  here.   & I agree with JW;  it should be made official.  It also created & mght be a strange spot where it wasn't really officially decided.  So how do we uh, how do we get around that?   Uh, you may want to ask , uh uno, legal counsel.   I don't know; I just don't know, how do I tell somebody you have to pay even tho we never passed it?
JM: Could I ask a ques?   RH, would have Fred possibly told you on that when you were PBW Chairman, uh before he made the decision?  RH:  What's that?  JM:  RH, would Fred possibly have told you on that decision before he increased that fee when you was the PBW Chairman?  RH:  No, he wouldn't have.  He didn't call me a lot.  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _me.

DM: What would the bd's pleasure be - to put this in cmte or pass a motion tonight for $25 like I think a couple of _ _ _ _ we're providing service barely breaking even for sanitation?  Slike it's not unreasonable, but we're payin' - havin'  the resident pay the $25 for something with a condenser & then at least $10 for washing machine, other items _ _ _ _.  

JW:   YH, I move that we adopt the current pricing that was produced in the newsletter & put that in ord form.   DM:  Is there a 2nd?  ?:  I'll 2nd.  PP:  RC made a motion to waive the fee.   DM:  RC had made a motion to waive the fee for refrig or other - JW:  Did he get a 2nd?  DM:   There was not a 2nd.  Is there a 2nd for that motion?  Motion dies for lack of a 2nd. JW made a motion to continue the fees, fee structure - JW:  structure the ord per what we've already public, uno, put out in our newsletter at those rates.
EM:  _ _ _ _ can be done by _ _ or motion, if the bd would like to make rules _ _ collections, including the establishmt of rates for special items.  JW:  It's probably in effect then already 'cause I think this came out of FW&M, that got approved in the mins, if we really want to know how this come into effect.  JM:  I followed the proper channels with the previous administration & followed his directions & (pause) -
RS: YH.  DM:  _ _ _ - JW?:  _ that's fine.  DM:  Just to try to get _ _ - JW: We've already uh publicly announced 'em, so I mean -  RS: I (think I?) remember discussin' this a while back when I first took ofc. (people mumbling)  MM: I'm sorry, I can't hear you. What? - RS: It did come out of uh, seems like out of LEG or Ways & Means, one - (mumbling continues + sound system feedback)  I don't remember exact.   DM:  Ok, we'll, we'll try to ask uh - the ord, er the
mins checked the next couple days to verify something, get some clarification.  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  30 of  35


Stop signs, painting, uh stop signs.   RC: Uh, yes, uh I was wondering if we could possibly get the street dept to paint a, a stop line with the word stop on - I, I believe I'm talkin' about the Fernridge & Lookout area.  I understand that might be one that get's missed a lot.   DM:  We had the stencil or whatever, template it's called, to paint stop on the street.  JM:  No, sir, YH, we have painted stop bars, but we've never painted the word stop before, which contractor's out there or we could probably buy a stencil, as you say.  RC:  How would we then - that up to perhaps the ald in that ward & uh the mayor to decide _ _ _ _.  

DM:  Seems like a directive of Lt Melies.  You think the stop, the word stop, helps more than a white line painted on the street or as - I mean have you read anything on it?  I know it sounds pretty - LtM:  I don't have any knowledge of it. (people laugh)  JW:  Can't read -
DM:  Price, price for the stencil with the word stop.

RH:  YH, Could you post both?  RS:  _ &  _?  RH:  No, uh at the corners of both Lookout & Fernridge;  that was my biggest complaints when I was walkin' - DM?:  Yes.  RH: down by the judge's house & on top the hill.  JM:  I can paint stop bars relatively quick.  DM:  The bar, would you like the word stop once we get this?  RH:  I don't care about the stop part. (aud chuckles)  

DM:  Ok, so you guys did two from RH _ _ ?  RS:  Yeah, YH, I was just gonna suggest maybe we get one or the other;  I think the stripe, that's probably more appropriate. DM:  Would RC feel comfortable with the stripe for now & see if that  - RC:  _ _.  DM:  Ok, we'll hold off the uh stop stencil & we'll go with the stripe for now;  see if that _ _.   RH?:  The strips.  JW: Yes, sir, I would, I would uh
hope to take the mayor & PBW Dir & you guys use your best judgemt & view the whole city & see if this applies to maybe every stop sign or (audience mumbles & giggles) - I don't want anybody calling me & sayin', how come they got a bar & my ward didn't get a bar & all that.  (one gavel bang)


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  31 of  35


DM:  A mile per hr speed limit sign , RC. RC: Uh yes, YH, as you turh off of 141 on Crescent Ave, uh we've run into _ _  block & you can _ _ _ force.  We don't have enough room to put a sign up that says the speed limit 'cause it's too close to all those interSecs;   & uh Mrs. Boch is dodgin' traffic just to get across the street.  &, & it's pretty easy to find acceleration when you come out of the turn.  I'm thinking that uno, since we can't put anything there, perhaps we could paint something which would at least _ _ _ what the speed limit is there. (audience mumbles)  
It's a Twin Oaks thing & I know that uh what can happen is that uh JW's got a little pull with Twin Oaks & might be able to get somebody to help us with that - if he will.  JW: _ _.  RC:  Sounds like he's gonna take care of it.   DM:  Tku, RC.  JW:  _ _ _.  
DM:  I guess that's all the items for JB here, er I'm sorry, JM.  JM:  I believe RH had something on misquitos.  DM:  Oh, that's right, yes, I'm sorry.  RH:  Should I _ _ _ _?  DM:  _ _ _ _ _.  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  32 of  35


RH: Well, the big spider;  are we spraying?  JM:  Yes , we spray.   RH:  Can we double up or something?  It's really bad.  JM:  Um, we could double up.  Uh, it initially costs us about $500 a night every time we spray.  It's a pretty good cost.  We have up'd what we're doing as far as, when we spray for misquitos that kills adult misquitos flyin' in the air, but we have also been puttin' chemicals in the standing waters & other areas;  that uh kills the larvaecides which kills the eggs before they're hatched.  

So we also have removed roughly 500 tires at an expense to the city out of the g/f which was breeding misquitos.  But um it's just a cost of money that's not budgeted to spray twice a wk. Um, like I said, it's probably - RH:  Spraying once a wk, tho _ _ _ _?  JM:  Yes, we spray the entire town once a wk.  We spray on Thursdays & unless it rains, we, you can spray on rain but you're just throwing yur money out the window because the rain breaks the chemical down, but if...(exchange tapes)

...DA:...budgets within your dept are your responsibility that are under budget for this yr?  JM:  I submitted a reasonable budget to the mayor without being extravagant, & trying to perceive way in the future of, uno what things could happen, I, I submitted a reasonable budget.  I, I don't inflate a budget like a lot of people do.  I submit what I think the city can give us -

DM:  I don't think he's implying you're over-charged - DA: No.  DM:  but we do have - ?: _ _ - ?: _ _  - DM: expense is one thing, we are - the budget balance - hoping to get - ?: _ _ - DA: What, what I'm getting at & again, I'm not askin' - wantin' to get defensive - what I'm wantin' to do - if there's an area that's under-budget where you've got money or funds available, I'd like to make a motion to have the mayor reallocate, or authorize the mayor, to reallocate um money to double the um misquito control effort that we've got going now, & if I get a 2nd, I'll explain why. RS:  2nd for discussion.  

DA: Ah, again, there's been confirmed cases of West Nile, Nile Virus in um Illinois, directly across the river.  This is a serious problem & it's uncomfortable to be out in our yards now with the misquitos & if we've got funds available, we should do this.   Uh & again, I would hope the mayor would support this &, & if the motion carries, then you could without any other um uno, effort of bd, take care of that because the misquitos are bad;  not condemning the effort they're giving, it's just the misquitos are bad.  

JM:  Could I make a suggestion, DA?  Rather than take money from one acct to the other, I would rather show that dept in the red for the following yr so I know what the budget is, which it's the same money, it's the same no matter where you put it.  If we got GR, we got GR, if we don't, we don't.  If my turck acct's under & my misquito's over, then least in next yr I'll know what to budget for misquitos because the #'s will be there.
DA: I think, I think of a legal requiremt's why we have to keep each item, uno, in the black & by reallocating that, the records should show that, that there was money reallocated for the misquito or pest control effort.  DM: Would this be - 'cause I assume with the 4 wks, since we're starting a new FY this - DA:  Yes.  DM: July 1st, that'd be $2K anyway, so I'll see if we can find the $2K to do a second spraying each wk.  Would you recommend it be like 3 days apart, so - DA: It, it doesn't matter, uh just increase the effort.  DM:  or would you have an opinion if we doubled it - would be like a Mon, Thrus - we wouldn't want to get it two nights in a row is what I'm _ _ _.  

JM:  I would spray tomorrow night if they take the rain out of the forecast & again on Thurs.  If they don't take the rain out of the forecast, uno, I'll, I'll spray Thrus & the following Mon & then again Thurs.  & like I said, any time it rains, we might be sprayin' back-to-back days, but we'll spray twice a wk.  

DM:  Well, in addition to this, the gentlemen have to be bringin' Brignole Ctr on Sun, I was talking to (Denner?) 'cause I'm (hopin' I'm getting) a key & he does um tree _ _ misquitos;  he felt spraying was of lower effect than some of the other problems & I was realize everybody - _ _ their biz was going to try to promote their area, but perhaps we could do something in addition to spraying, something (I could do to talk?).  But for now, I think we'll do the double-up spraying. JM:  As I, as I, - DM:   for the next yr -
JM: As I said, we, we'd have no larvaeciding.  & I have been told the same thing;  it's better to kill the eggs before they hatch than to try to kill an adult, but we are doing evrything that we're capable of doing.  I spoke with you once, um YH, about St L County wanting to contract our larvaeciding & they gave me a cost of around $1500 & I believe that's how you got that they would come in here.  & I, based on the people we buy our chemical from that tells us how to control larvaeciding, I believe we do more work for less money, doing it ourselves.  ?:  Right.  

DA: Again, _ _ _ again, I think you do a great job, but it appears that money may be holding you back, um, your, uno, our best efforts tho, &, & I, I don't want money to stand in the way.  DM:  So the motion is to - DA:  to authorize the mayor um to reallocate funds to make um an extended effort uh to con, uh to control misquitos.  DM: Is there a 2nd?  ?:  2nd.  RC:  YH.   

DM: Motion by DA, 2nd by RC;  all in - TB: What discretion - DM: Yeah, yeah, TB _ _ _ -  ?: _ 2nd that.  ?: _ _ - DM:  RS 2nd'd it -

TB: I realize Jim probably knows all the in's & out's of it, but uh you're not puttin' the population at a risk by over-sprayin'?   I mean, I realize you need, uno, you're gonna need to spray, but I don't want to - ?: _ _ - TB: jeopardize somebody's yard.  DM: risk.  JM:  No, I,
I have no belief that we're putting the population at any more risk by spraying twice a wk versus once a wk.  DM: Was a ques I _ _ _ _  I assume if you found out anything, you would immediately cut back to the previous schedule.  JM:  Of course.  DM: q/c?  All in favor of misquito-spray increase - (voice vote - none heard opposed)


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  33 of  35


(Paving?) at 141 & - RH:  Yes, YH, uh, I talked ta Weis, er Tom from Weis Eng'g a while back, I was concerned about 141;  & it's like Vance Rd;  it belongs to St L County I see.  DM:  Yes it does.  RH: But he said if I would uh, we talked & he said if I would walk the street & like make a list of driveway approaches, potholes, not the road, the walkways & the driveway approaches, that he meets with county I believe once a month & he could uh show 'em what needs to be done & request work to be done.  

But I feel uno, that I'd just like to put this in a motion, but before we do that, I would like to request St L County sweep both sides of the road.  There's gravel about this thick on the walkways & the driveway.   ?: _ _ _ _ - RH:  Right - DM:  State that I'm not tryin' to - RH:  or a State, I'm sorry, State - have 'em sweep it & then after they get it swept, have JM & maybe TW walk it;   & they're, they're an expert , I'm not, on asphalt, what it actually needs to be done.  Potholes, there's potholes - I bet people can't even get in & out of their driveway; like I said, it's a state road, the city can't help 'em;  so he said that if I would like to get them two to walk it & then make the request to the State.  & I'm puttin' that in the form of a motion.  ?: 2nd.  DM:  2nd RS.  q/c?  RH:  & it's from uh Fernridge to Forest Woods Apartmts.  

JM:   I, I would like to make a cmt after you make your motions , please.  DM:  Go ahead.  JM: Uh, Monday when I returned back from vacation, I contacted PH Weis;  basically regarding the same concerns, Randy, because once the new hiway's built, they're gonna try & dedicate that road back to us.  & I think once the city's stuck with that road being in the shape it is - the road's in bad shape;  they don't repair the potholes that's existing;  there's dead trees that they, they don't cut down.   um & I will include driveway approaches in that & I will do my best to force them to sweep that street.  The State is the most difficult org that I have to deal with, but I work, I'll work with the engs & uh JB & try to get them to sweep it ASAP.

RH:  Tom says he meets with 'em monthly I think.  Coordinate it with the other people if you would.  DM:  What were the streets again?  Pardon me.  RH:   Well, from uh 141, from Fernridge to the Forest Woods Apts - 'cause there'll be a cul-de-sac right there uno; so there's no sense in goin' much farther than that.  DM: q/c for uh, I mean
on the motion?  (voice vote - none heard opposed)  Motion carries.  Anything else for JM?  Alright, tku.  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  34 of  35


POL Cmdr's Report -  ?: _ _  -  RC:  YH, I have an item on the _ _.  DM:  on the dog issue?  I'm sorry.  It's not Patricia Hill, is it?  RC:  Yes, sir, I was wondering if I might be able to ask the uh neighborhood policing ofcr to get together with the cmty dev dir & go & visit a Pit Bull that sort of lives on uh the cul-de-sac that's Patricial Hill. I, I'm, I like dogs a lot, but when they can clear the fence & uh kind of, let's just say they're do what dogs normally do.   DM:  Ok.  RC:  Uh let's see if couldn't find a -

?: _ _ - DM: Ok, I'm just sayin' Lt. Melies _.  RC:  Yeah, let's see what we can come up with & maybe they uh they need to - I'd appreciate if they'd let me know how things are goin' over there.   Uh I don't think we need to say any more about it.  It's just -  


6/3/02 BOA - Sec  35 of  35


DM:  Ok, _ _ _ here, a P&Z rep from Ward 1, if RS & DA would um please uno get neighbors from Ward 1 for P&Z together the end of the month 'cause we're having an opening occurring.  DM: _ _ _ _ _?  TB:  No, YH.  DM:  I'm sorry.  TB:  That one there is PBW _ _ - DM:  Ok, what was the issue?  TB: Well, the issue was _ _ clearing that up for Donny Carroll.  He did leave a msg on my machine about 4:30 tonite.  I got home at about 6:30 & we had a special mtg at 7:15.  _ _ _ _ _ I didn't return his phone call which I always return everybody's phone call - I'm sure that RH's probably the same way.  


Uno, I'm not retired;  I do have a job;  uno, you have to take that into consideration, but I do return all of his phone calls.  DM:  Well, hopefully Mr. Carroll - TB:  & I do talk to TW every time I see him;  he's at the 3rd Mon.  & I had talked to him every time _ _ _ _ _ _ uno you've got a uno a reason.  & I do agree with Mr. Carroll;  it does seem like it's kind of takin' an awful long time for this project;  but RH pointed out MSD's had tied it now.  So I mean I do agree with him, but I think in another respect that I think uh, I have been bringing it up to TW every tme I see him. DM:  Tku, TB, I'm sure he'll appreciate your _ _.  

Any other q/c on _ _ _ _ _ _ _ at this point, I'd appreciate a motion to go into exec session for items considered um,
related to Legislative.  JW:  So moved.  ?:  Litigation & personnel.  DM: Litigation & personnel.  The motion by JW;  do I have a  2nd?  DA:  2nd.  DM:  2nd by DA.  Roll call vote, please.  PP:  RH. No he's - (people disburse - end of taping of 6/3/02 BOA)