MOPR'S 8/19/02 VP LEVEE CMSN MTG MINUTES
Notes: When I pulled into the pkg lot for this mtg, Elliott "You Paid For It" Davis of Fox 2 News & his cameraman were interviewing DM on the front porch. Then inside, Elliott's brief talk with CLM ended unpleasantly; I survived my first such interview; witnessed DA interview & was amazed by relevant cmts during the mtg. Instead of here, I've opened Maureen's Nightmare with those details, etc.
This was BW, Bob Walls', owner of Precision Mold & Eng'g, first levee cmsn mtg as its new business rep, & also James Probert's, as the VP School District rep. Add'l MOPR notes bottom of this page.
Present: DC, BW, JW, JH, BL (left about half-way thru mtg), RW, James Probert, DM, EM, CLM, JZ, TW.
Also Carolyn Pelot from Senator Jean Carnahan's office, DA, RC, Andy McCord of DG Purdy, Marcy Michel, & Ed Harrawood.
8/19/02 Levee - Section 1 of 22
DC: ... Precision Mold & Eng'g; he's the new business rep uh, on the levee cmsn. Also, Mr. uh, James Probert - James: Correct. DC: & he's from the VP School Dist, uh member on the uh, levee cmsn. DM: & last month - DC: & the other new member we have on the uh, is Mr. Gary Adams & uh, he's not here that I see, ok.
DM: I forgot to tell you Jim was gonna be on vacation last month. I forgot _ _ _ 'cause I talked to him in June. Jim said, he told me he was gonna be on vacation, so that's why he wasn't here in July. DC: Ok, fine. DM: _ _ _ _ he's excused; I didn't want you to think he just wasn't _ _ _ _. DC: Ok. DM: He told me at the mtg.
DC: Ok, I'll call the roll now. I just wanted to introduce him. You, you fellas can introduce yourselves to the new members, uno, after the mtg or whatever; I won't go down - you prob - Bob probably knows some of these people already I think. BW: Most everybody. DC: Most everybody, yeah. I know he knows me, I've seen him. (BW laughs) (roll call - see above, plus) RS (no response heard); RH, he's excused, he's workin'; TH - I've got a question to ask Colonel.
8/19/02 Levee - Section 2 of 22
CLM: Tom Horgan has resigned his job with uh, Cgsm Todd Akin & because he accepted a job with Sen Kit Bond in Washington. He's working in uh, Kit's Washington staff now & he'll be working uh, under Brian Cliffenstein, he's the Senior (iclig?) Director for Sen Bond. Tom will continue to work on our project for Sen Bond.
& I've met the replacemt to Tom, but I think he's still gettin' his feet on the ground & probably didn't have a chance to change his schedule around to get to the mtg tonight. DC: Ok, before the next mtg, I'll get a, I'll call you & you let me know his name & we'll get him on the roster so we can send him a, a packet. CLM: I hadn't called (earlier?) 'cause I was told that it was gonna be one person, then I found out it was gonna be somebody else. I didn't have a chance to talk to them (2 or too?); that's the problem. DC: Well, I'll get a hold of you before the next mtg & we'll get his name & everything put on the roster for to send him a packet, & uh - ?: _ _ _ now. ?: Ok. ?: (Mike Short?). DC: Ok. (Pledge Allegiance)
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Uh, does anybody have an additions or deletions to the agenda? DA: I know I'm not on the cmsn, but if I could uno, be afforded, I'd like to say a word before we get started. DC: Ok, let me uh, let's go down here & we'll discussion items & I'll, I'll let you say what you want to do here. DA: Where's that at? DC: Dan. DA: Ok. DC: I have one item here, uh, I'll put it under E, 8E uh, Maureen Morris, levee.
DM: Dave, after you get them, I've got the number of properties remain to be bought & I guess the addresses or - so we can get a time-line on what it's gonna take to finish buyin' 'em. DC: Let's make that F. Uh, property acquisition. DM: Right, yeah, the # of properties & addresses, steps that - I'll expound once we get to it. JW: I move to approve the agenda as amended. DC: Do I hear a 2nd? RW: 2nd. DC: I have a motion to approve & a 2nd to approved the uh, agenda. All in favor. (some or all aye) Ok.
Approve the mins of the 5/20 mtg; Mr. Martin, do you have those mins of the 5/20 mtg. Mr. Martin, do you have those mins for 20th & 15th of July? EM: I have a mtg, or the mins for 7/15 & I have the, the mins for 5/20, altho they're in my office. DC: Ok. EM: I only have one copy since the photocopier here is locked up. DC: Well, uh, well, just, we'll get a, give that to Terry or somebody & we'll have 'em copied & we'll do it - we'll get 'em all together the next mtg, ok? EM: Alright.
8/19/02 Levee - Section 4 of 22
DC: Ok, discussion items for this mtg; uh, Dan, do you want to make a - DA: Yes, if I could; & again, I hope I don't offend anybody here, but I'm gonna speak exactly how I see it & what we need to do. Just a few minutes ago, & no um, disrespect for the uh, the media, but I was um - CLM: You can be disrespectful; that's alright.
DA: I, I was asked a bit, some very pointed questions with the only intent I believe is to have a negative outcome on this. & I think there's some private agendas here. I know that some people dislike Mr. Martin, but I, I'mona go over some facts here. Let's take a walk around & look at this levee, what we've got completed.
& under my administration, which was a short 2 yrs, we com, completed more levee. & I didn't do that alone; I did it with this cmsn by my side, workin' every day; I did it with Mr. Cusack; I worked with the uh, the eng at the time & we have a capable eng keeping this goin'. Mr. Martin is the most knowledgeable person on the financial side of this levee, um, at this point in time. So I guess what I'm sayin' here, we may very well kill this project with our, our game-playin' here, um, just to promote a, a private agenda.
I think it's time to quit the cry-babyin' & whinin' & let's get together & get to work on this again because we CAN be successful because we have been. & I can tell the only one that you're gonna have to explain to later on for this, is if this cmty gets wiped out by another flood because we are promoting private agendas. & I, I apologize for bein' mad, but we can be successful & it's gonna be our own fault. We need to get over whatever's buggin' us & get goin' on this, this part here. Thank you, I appreciate _ _ _.
DM: Just in case somebody thinks I'm playin' games, Elliott Davis called me up Friday out of the blue, left a msg, asked if I'd return his call & he said he wanted - last night, I finally got a hold of him, we kind of played phone tag - he says I want to do a little report on the levee. & I said, 'well, I've got some #'s here, what we've paid & so I, there's a levee mtg tomorrow'. He said, 'ok, I'll be there'. & that's - I don't know how he, what he knew of the levee ahead of time, 'cause he didn't know we'd started (porting?) of it, so I - so he called up. Apparently somebody else called him up because he called me, I guess 'cause I'm the mayor, & asked - he, he initiated the, the contact, is what I'm tryin' to say.
DA: Yet I tried to respond back to Mr. Davis with a positive spin on this, with some factual info; without trying to um, blame or hit anybody. I hope that that gets on, on, on TV; I kind of doubt it. What I would really regret is that, uno, the citizens of VP read on there where somebody's blaming the city atty 'cause this is NOT his responsibility. This is OUR responsibility; um, it was my responsibility as the mayor & the bd; we've got to work with what we've got. I can tell you, the surest way to stop this levee right now, take this man out; let's start all over; & it will be a long time before we get started again. Tku.
8/19/02 Levee - Section 5 of 22
CLM: Let me just add the cmt: it's, it's obviously someone had called Elliott, which prompted Elliott to call the mayor. & uh, he obviously did exactly what, uno, he was supposed to do; you get the info people were asking for about the mtg & (recorder movemt noise).
Dan asked me to go talk to Elliott before the mtg started. &, uno, I've had a lot of experience in dealing with people who are trying to hang people, get 'em ahead of time; & that's obviously, uno, what he was up to. After I said would you like to hear how this project actually got - 'no, no I just wanna see the attorney; I wanna find out why the project went from $14, 15 Million, who's responsible, who's wastin' all this money &' - You came out here with an agenda, you need to really back-off & try to find out what's in store yet. & uh, he was quite obvious; he's not interested in anything except to try to present a story, uh, very one-sided based on, apparently, info that somebody else uh, had given him.
So uh, I would just suggest that uh, interesting, uh, news people come & go; & they make a story every now & then. This story really is uh, not very thick in particular when it becomes apparent that they have an agenda too. Just, uh at the time _ party, parties that uh try to feed 'em info about the costs. I'm sure (chuckle) you're all aware the cost has gone up & when I tried to tell Elliott, & without even hesitating, he didn't want to hear it.
Costs of everything comes up; cost of const in particular goes up, especially if you are changing the design as you go along; the costs will go up & you may change it, the cost will move to the bldg; nothing's unusual about that; nothing's secret; & nothing's particularly even special about it because, about it being a COE's project, about it being VP, or about it being uh, _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ following the project to completion of the project. I think that a lot's been accomplished & we've accomplished uh, it in a reasonably short period of time, determined all the obstacles that've been (hurled or hurdled?), but we've been able to overcome to get to where we are today.
DC: Uh, before he asked me a ques & I guess maybe it was pointed at how much I make a yr or whatever it is. I guess there's some ques about on this bd or something, about what I make for this thing that brought it up; & I guess maybe there is some people feel that I, I shouldn't be paid for what I do. I don't know, but uh - CLM: No, I think what he's tryin' to do - DC: uh, if there is any ques - CLM: is he's tryin' to - DC: I mean I'll gladly, uno, I'll resign from this position & let you let somebody else handle it if they want to. I mean if that, if that's what they -
DM: For what it's worth, Dave, I think you're doin' a good job & you're worth every penny that the city pays you. DC: Ok, fine, as long as - CLM: _ _ _ _ _ a 2nd time _ _. EM: David, on my end, uno, don't be disuaded for cheap politics 'cause that's all this is. DC: I mean I, I really don't know; I mean that was the first ques he asked me there, how much I made, how much I made, so I guess there was some ques that somebody wrote up how much I get paid on this thing.
CLM: No, he was askin' anybody & everybody; what he's tryin' to do is he's tryin' to make a case that what's been, what big money is wasted here on this project, wasting the taxpayers' dollar, wasting the city's dollar, uno, that sort of thing. But all you have to do to wonder about whether he's really tryin' to get the truth or not, is take a look around. Where's the cameraman? Where's Elliott Davis? DM?: Yeah, in & out. CLM: They're not here. Well, he, he wasn't here, &, & really, to have a chance to talk with anybody to get any info; he came here just to get some footage to show tonight. You noticed the camera was following Eric around as Eric went around doin' various (chuckle) & sundry things so that they'll have good footage tonight to go with the story he already has written based upon info somebody's given him.
JW: Uno there's people blamin' politicians & everything else on this. That guy'll come if an average citizen calls. That don't have to be a mayor or an ald to come out here. I mean my neighbor could call & get him down here. JH: I, I hate to bring this up, but the death of Cassie & the, uno, the attn that the g/p & the levee got, might, might've - ?: Oh yeah, I mean - ?: That's for sure. DM?: That might've been it. JW?: Heck yeah.
CLM: Well, that's what really made me feel - JH?: _ _ _ _ _ _ - CLM: ties back into that. BW: I think that's - CLM: make a (big deal?). BW: probably more tied into that than anything; they're looking for sensationalism. That's all they're lookin' for. CLM: Exactly. BW: Just something to get viewers into the ring or somethin'.
EM: You may want to know, he, he did this in uh, early May as well & wanted interviews & I talked with him at length & gave him a lot of detailed reasons on why costs have increased, including uh, 8A set asides & all kinds of things that he really didn't want to hear. & I spoke to Mr. Davis about that, uh, &, & uno, received his (recorder movemt noise). People have all sorts of agendas & who knows why or uh - JW: Eric, that's why you get paid the big bucks - put up with those people. EM: Oh, that's right. (JW & DC laugh)
8/19/02 Levee - Section 6 of 22
DC: Ok, ok! Uh, I guess next item is item A, Item (Phase) 4B, the update uh, I don't know whether we have any, any update on 4B as uh, Jim. I don't have any. JZ: Yeah, I've got some things to go thru. I think we're supposed to, for the new members of the bd, uh, I'm Jim Zerega with the COE. Uh, Item 4B, in case you don't know (while setting up his drawing) - JW: Hey, James, all these mtgs ain't that scary in the beginning (chuckle). ?: _ _ _ _ _. ?: I hear more about that from my wife than _ _ _ _.
JZ: The levee project here, this is the Meramec River of course. This is the part in green that's already constructed, ok, these sections of levee, the Vance Rd closure structure, this section of levee here, the St. Louis Ave closure structure, & then there's a closure structure built at BN tracks here, ok, it's already built. What remains to be constructed is this yellow levee, ok, that's called Item 4B. This was Item 4A here & uh, that's, that's what we're talking about. Here's the glass, the g/p, footprint of the bldgs in the g/p that are showing in red.
So uh, first thing I have to mention is that at, at the mayor's request & the city's request, uh uno, the COE already had planned to clear trees in that yellow area there so we can build our levee. Uno we can't, we can't clear trees between April & the, the end of Sept because of uh Endangered Species Act &, & because of potential habitat for Indiana Bats. So we already had a plan to clear these trees during the uh, during the months between uh Oct & next uno, end of next uh, March. & at the mayor's request, we uh moved ahead with that plan to clear the area of the g/p itself so that the city can proceed with any demolition they may want to do in that area.
& so we uh, we kind of cut out that part of the work & made up a set of plans that covers about 10 acres of the g/p area & we awarded a contract to do the tree clearing in that area. & the uh tree clearing, I guess they're mobilizing equipmt today & tomorrow &, & will be doing uh work on Wednesday as far as starting to cut the trees down.
We have, we also have biologists come out & mark the uh, the trees that are bat habitats so that they cannot be cleared until after Oc, after the end of Sept. So they won't, those are all marked & they won't be cleared, but then the same contractor will come back after Oct 1st & clear the rest of those trees that are marked for bat habitat, uh, clear out the uh, the g/p area.
JW: Jim, what contractor got that bid? JZ: It, it's a, it's not a bid; it was a, for us to move fast, it was done thru an 8A, 8A Program, uh (Brewen?) Const Co out in Columbia, MO. Um, & I think um, far as I'm, far as I'm concerned, we got a fair price for the gov't est we negotiated & so forth with this contract. It wasn't, wasn't an open bid. JW: Is that because of the price or the speed you want? JZ: It, it was um (pause) - DM: Probably both, 'cause we had a hundred thousand $ cap, plus we want it done quick - JZ: Yeah, _ _ - DM: So appreciate the COE, all the COE's & Tom Weis' efforts pull this all together. It's been Jim & Tom's experience.
JZ: We've gone thru similar processes on uh, uno, on tree felling for other parts of the job. & um uno, we've gone thru the uh competitive bidding process on that, but uh this, this is a co that we've dealt with, COE's dealt with before, uno, they do a lot of work for us & so uh, it was an opportunity to get going real quickly on the job.
8/19/02 Levee - Section 7 of 22
BW: How come it was, we needed to go very quickly all of a sudden? JZ: Because the city has a desire, by the way I understand it, a possible desire to do some demolition in the g/p area because of the little girl that was killed in that area. BW: So we're moving ahead because the little girl got killed? I mean if the little girl didn't get killed, we would still be sittin' here I guess. JZ: No. TW: No, it just would be under a different bid schedule. BW: We would be under a bid schedule which would be a different 6 mos, a yr later & goes on & on & on & on. JZ: No, we, we're gonna talk about the next contract in just a min here.
CLM: You weren't talkin' to Elliott Davis, were you? (JW cracks up & others laugh.) BW: No, I _ _ _ . CLM: I'm just kiddin' (chuckling). What they have uh have planned to do this, & normally, when you're in the Indiana Bat season, you don't go in & selectively clear trees; you go in toward the end of the bat season & _ _ _ _. BW: I realize that -
JZ: So what we have is a (menolar?) contract & we've already provided our P&S, uh, for, for remaining clearing of that, that entire yellow area, wherever there's trees that need to be cleared. Uh, we gave 2 sets of those to Tom. I don't, I don't know if you've passed any on to anybody else or not - TW: No, _ _ _. JZ: but, uh we do have uh - TW: Phase 2, you're talking about, Jim? JZ: Phase 2 for the tree felling, um -
TW: Phase 1, we're calling, just so everybody knows, Phase 1 is the part that we have awarded & is starting Wed. Phase 2 is the part that will be commenced after 10/1; that will be the remaining areas that the COE's responsible for, for clearing.
Now Phase 2A, is going to be if the city desires, there's some wooded areas outside of the COE's area, that during that time, we may contract with that person separately, or with some other tree svc co to clear some add'l area, if there's any park area desired between the trail & the River Rd that, uno; we discussed that at a previous mtg. In other words, if we want to try to do some selective clearing near the river side of the levee -
JW: How much is Phase 1? Is it gonna be part of our matching, are we gonna do our matching share, just like you would with a normal - TW: Well, it's going to be contracted thru the COE directly & I don't anticipate that the city's going to be, as part of their previous matching money that's already been paid to the COE, that that is part - the city's part has already been for that. I, I, I think that is correct. JZ: _ _ the Phase 1, the contract we just awarded, $97,000 & - JW: Is that just the g/f? TW: The 10 acres approximately. JZ: 10 acres, the g/f, plus area - TW: Which is a very limited area -
JW: How many total acres is there to clear? If we do it all. EM: 38 acres. ?: about 40 acres. TW: There's 38 acres, but there's probably not - there's more on the river side that doesn't need to be cleared to build the levee. So there's a whole - JZ: In this remaining job area. BW: The remaining job area - JZ: But I mean - DM?: 60 you said? JZ: Arou, around 60 acres.
But now the g/p is kind of a special case because as uno, it's got all these walls & - JW: Is that the10 that basically that they're gonna do is where the walls are? TW: It's where the walls are, that's correct. JZ: Take a look. This is the g/p; this is the furnaces, this is the uh, enlarged, the archways & this is more furnaces; this is walls, walls here. The, the, the whole place is full of trees - JW: Right. JZ: So they went out & did a job visit with this contractor; & uno, there's a lot of trees that have to be cut & then pulled out of there. & it can't be done, uno, at the standard section of, of acreage of trees, ok; that's, that's part of the deal.
BW: That'll facilitate the destruction of the - JZ: Right. BW: g/f? JZ: Right. TW?: Right. JZ: So if the city wants to do any demolition on their own, prior to the COE's involvemt thru the levee project, then this facilitates that. TW: & that is to be coordinated with the COE because what we don't want to do is do things that are gonna hinder the const later on. But what we're gonna, the idea is to try to do some limited pushing & closing of the bigger cavern areas with a selected contractor, based on some of the people that have come fwd with some donation for equipmt. Uh, &, & that'll be uh, coordinated as we're in the middle of this Phase 1.
BW: That's a separate thing the city's gonna pay for? TW: Well, yeah, that is correct. & again, we'll, we'll have to probably visit with a contractor that has donated some um - I don't think anybody's probably gonna be able to donate labor, but I believe some contractors have donated some equipmt. & it's gonna be up to the city, myself & the bd to select that contractor.
BW: But it isn't gonna be any demolition? You're just gonna - TW: Well, demolition in the fact that we're gonna probably push in some walls & close up some of the bigger holes that might be there to try to prevent people from burrowing in there & maybe - BW: But it's the COE's responsibility - TW: But it's gonna be very limited -
BW: demolish & remove the - JZ: Our general plan is back on that drawing over there, is to build the levee that goes right thru the g/p. BW: So that's your - JZ: So our, our long-term, I mean our job, is to get rid of the g/p & build the levee in that area. TW: So then after uh, the main contract is let, now aside from the tree clearing contracts, there's a, there's a main contract that the COE's still working on - their design that will include rubblizing the concrete & turning it into uh, gravel & that that can be used in the backfill of the levee.
BW: So all the city's gonna do is just close it up & not make it a - ?: a hazard. TW: As, as we go fwd, yes, & the ultimate goal obviously as Jim said, is to build a levee thru there. So ultimately, it's all gonna be down; it's just we're tryin' to do some things to expedite uh, the obviously tragic event that happened & uh, uh, & the COE's obviously been very instrumental in moving fwd. They had already had plans to bid this work under the tree clearing; it's just work we're, they've, we've, we've sped everything up in order to - JZ: _ _talk about that.
8/19/02 Levee - Section 8 of 22
I mean we had a set of P&S. We, we sent it out for a technical review & uno, review by our env'l people & everybody else; & we have provided 2 copies to the city. &, & there's a, what's called vitability, constructability, operability & env'l (VCOE) review of this set of P&S, standard process, scheduled for 8/27 in our um, eng'g division conference rm. & the sponsor's invited to provide cmts prior to that or prior, or at that mtg. We, we ask for cmts by 8/23. & all of you are also welcome to attend the mtg on the 27th, if you have cmts about this tree felling job, ok, or tree clearing job.
& again, that covers a larger area. What we have done is basically, take this g/p part of the job & pulled it out as this bigger part of the job. DM: Again, how much is - JZ: The city's at bat. DM: how many acres is the g/p? ?: 10. JZ: About 10. DM: 10, ok. RW?: 10 clearing acres. DM: 10 clearing acres. RW: 38 acres somebody had mentioned earlier. DM: Ok. DC: Well, that's probably the, probably the whole - RW: Yeah, total of 10 clearing acres.
JZ: The general plan is that we would then proceed with our, uh what we have to do to make sure we have the land for any, any part of the overall clearing job. & then uh, we go thru a bidding process. The uh, the award is scheduled for Dec &, & start working in the middle of Jan; then we want to get that overall tree clearing job out of the way. BW: That'll be the start of the whole remaining section tree clearin? JZ: Yeah. BW: Of Jan of 2003? JZ: Right.
JW: Will that be at the same rate? You think about 10,000 an acre? JZ: Um, it's hard to guess, but I would think that the g/p is kind of a special place. On the other hand, um burning, burning of this, of this is expensive. JW: 'cause I've heard you say stacking. JZ: Uh, yeah, because - JW: Does that mean they're just gonna pile these logs up & leave 'em down there for that 100,000? ?: Right. JZ: Move 'em out, move 'em out of the g/p area & away from it.
TW?: There's an air quality issue you might want to talk about that too. JZ: Well, in order to meet the air quality standards, you have to get a burn permit which requires, you're probably aware, uh, like we did on the, on the Kajacks contract; digging a pit & then doing a, a air-curtain-destructure type berm. Um, that was gonna cost too much for this contract & so we're including that & that's - JW: Too much so you couldn't fast bid it yourself. JZ: Right, right. JW: It doesn't cost too much; it was just over the amt that you couldn't do the fast bid. JZ: Yeah. So that is uh something that we were including in the - TW?: Phase 2 - JZ: the overall Phase 2 tree clearing, to, to burn the trees that were left by this contractor.
DM: What if the city wanted to mulch some of that & store it down for people to come in? Is that a problem? JZ: No problem. DM: Ok. JZ: No problem. JW?: Works for fireworks. JZ: I mean if you can organize getting rid of some of that material, that would be great in any way. JW: Well I heard Ray's Tree Svc was gonna donate a tub grinder, so maybe they could donate it early. DM: Yeah, start mulchin' _ _ _ - JZ: I think we've covered -
TW: Eric, Can I touch on what Jeff just said is, under this Phase 2, after 10/1, the trees that are to remain on the river side of the levee that don't need to come down for the const of the levee, that's the opportunity that if you want to get with, uno, we can coordinate with Ray's Tree Svc, what we can do, anything we want to do after l0/1 with those trees.
JW: If they're doin' it for free, you'd wanna do all you could get. TW: Well, & I think we ought to be selective about it because if, I think the idea was to po, potentially create a park setting in that area. So, again, we will coordinate with Jim on that. JZ: But it's city, it's the city property; it's really not - TW: Correct. JZ: directly involved in the project. TW: Correct. JZ: I think it's a good idea to coordinate all these things. TW: Correct. JZ: Um -
8/19/02 Levee - Section 9 of 22
DC: I've got a couple cmts. We're talkin' to the contractor who went thru here. Some of this, we're talking about closing some of the caves or things up, this may be accomplished by the people pulling the trees out due to the equipmt that they'll have in there. Uh, they may uh flatten some of these things out. These things may collapse automatically & they figure that there's going to be some failure on these, on these concrete structures. JK: They'll need to do that in order to get to some of the trees.
DC: That's right, because to get into it, they're going to have to knock down walls, which will all be - this is gonna be sort of & a coordinated thing with the contractor & the COE, their archaeological people & all this. There's gonna be a fella there who'll be there probably every day that they're working. He'll have to - if they knock down any wall or remove any, or gonna take anything out or any, he'll have to make a recording of it & a pictures, uh & uh take, take all these pictures.
I mean uh, they've already discussed this with him & he's agreed that, that anything that has to come out once they get a data on it & get it on a picture, & everything, that it'll be alright. But they have to do this if they're gonna breach any walls, if they're goin' over 'em, they'll have to build things to get inside of 'em, push dirt around or move dirt & get stuff inside of it. & once they get the equipmt inside of this thing, it's really hard to tell how much, how much rubble is going to be pushed down & collapsed into a lot of these tunnels. They seem to think that uh, a quite a bit of it will be, will be collapsed.
JW: Dave, who will oversee these people to make sure they don't create more work for the next contractor? DC: Uh, the const people, there'll be people from the COE on this const job. They'll be in charge of it. A fella by the, Vic James, he's worked with all the levee project here & he'll be in charge of the const of that. Uh, they've already submitted a safety uh, thing that, a spec that they're going to have to do. They're all bonded & everything. Uh, they're going to be very, very careful of what they do over there. The contractors assured, because we toured this thing & looked thru it pretty, pretty good. & it's uh, they said that it's gonna be not a, a very tricky operation to get in there. Some places they can get in; some places it's going to be -
Uh, how they're gonna get the trees out? The trees'll have to be cut 5' above the ground. Anything under 6" will be just, will more or less just be left. I mean anything under 6" will have to be cut above 6" will have to be cut 5' from the ground. Uh, the way I understand it, there's gonna be some, uh, possible, when they go in, some grubby, uh, but they're gonna try to hold that as down as much as they can, but uh like the contractor said, this may be, uno, it may just, it may just happen automatically when they cut somethin' & try to pull somethin' out or whatever, it may just, it may just happen when they try to pull some of this brush out. Because it's so intermingled with vines & undergrowth & everything that's it's gonna be very hard for 'em to do a, really a - & they will stack all of the, supposedly on the south side of the levee, uh trail, what they call it, this trail, that goes thru there to the south of the g/p on there, that'll all be pushed into there.
Uh, any stockpile'll probably by other than trees uh, will be put inside the uh, Sports Complex, like tires, uh any metal, ice boxes, car bodies, uh boats & anything like that in there, they'll haul it out & they'll put it inside the Sports Complex near, near where they're gonna be clearin' it. Probably, there's an old ballpark, abandoned ballpark at one end of this, on the north, on the NE corner, uh NW corner of the, of the thing that's unused, growed up in weeds.
& that's probably where they'll put their uh, uh this other waste as they call it, this special waste. It'll have to be hauled off & it'll, it'll probably be hauled off the after the contract, after the contract is done & uh I don't know.
Maybe the city will uh, will take it on, to haul this away, the tires. The city has already moved over 1000 tires out of the g/p, previous to this, due to a request by the County Health Dept due to the West Nile & they've sprayed down there. & I will say, I walked thru the g/p, uh probably 6 or 7 times in the past 2 wks & I've never got a misquito bite, so, uh, not ever even; I've never saw a misquito down there at the g/p, knock on wood. But I'm sure once we get in there & start stirrin' things up in the, in the middle of this plant, there'll probably be some misquitos (chuckle). JW: Hard tellin' what you'll find down there. DC: Right, yeah, so.
Um, like I say, they were supposed to start today with the mow, but they're gonna start tomorrow; I guess maybe because of the weather, weather, they didn't start today. But they're gonna start mobilizin' tomorrow & probably gonna start movin' trees Wed. Possibly, the thing'll take uh, maybe uh, 10 to15 days, uh, depending on, on weather situations & what they, what, what run, what they run into & everything like that. I have a question. I don't know how much clearing they're going to do on the south side of this trail in order to put all this brush when they pull 'em out of there. But I guess, I guess they figured this out.
Uh, they tried to work with somebody to burn this & uh the reason it's so expensive to burn, it's, it's such a large & extensive area, they would have to have at least 8 to 9 burn pits & they would have to set these up because of the movin' 'em around; they'd have to move 'em around which was so expensive. If you don't know what a burn pit is, it's quite an extensive thing & they have to keep it goin' & refire it up probably every so often. RW: Daily. DC: Daily, they have to fire it daily & then uh, this is a sort of a bad time to cut trees in a molt thing because a lot of 'em are green & it produces a lot more uh things. & also, uh there are various other things that would bring to cost up to this.
Uh, they thought maybe they could have the mulch place over here bring a portable thing in to do it, but it was too expensive at this time to really go over & do all that. & they figured that in the next phase of this thing, when we start this clearing, then would be a very good idea that we could probably bring this in & not even get rid of this mulch. Just store it in the, in the Sports Complex & either let the citizens of VP come & haul it off or uno, anybody that would want mulch, let 'em come in & haul it off & it wouldn't cost us, cost us anything.
Uh, I think the fella over here at the mulch, he said that if he brought that in, it'd cost him about somewhere in the neighborhood of between $60 & $70,000, he'd charge you to mulch it all up. Just for the g/p. JW: Tub grinder? DC: Huh? JW: A big tub grinder? DC: A big tub grinder. But uh, uh, uno, me, we may, we may be able to do better than that later on with the - JZ: I got a few other items that we need to go thru here & then we'll proceed. DC: Good, I'm, I'm finished. That's just, I just want you's to know what we're talkin' about here.
8/19/02 Levee - Section 10 of 22
JZ: Um, just another thing that's assoc'd with Item 4, 4B is that there's an env'l mitigation plan assoc'd with the overall project & uh, that we're trying to develop. & the, there was a draft env'l mit prepared by the COE, not the coordination, but the city, & with some of the other agencies & uh that was provided to the city & other agencies as DRAFT. & we got some cmts from the city thru Andy McCord with Purdy Assoc, & uh, also we've got some cmts from some of the other outside agencies. & there's a mtg set for 9/4, at 10 am. I gave a copy of that uh, e-mail to Andy with a, to go over, to go over all these cmts & try to, uno, come to a concensus on it, on the env'l mit plan.
CLM: Does that include the state agencies? JZ: State, federal. CLM: (Guess?) which one we have - at your office? JZ: Got it. Uh, another thing that's uh happened since last mtg is that uh, have, we've gotten a copy of the Storm Water Discharge Permit prepared by uh, Andy McCord from Purdy for the city?
Uh, I didn't say, I guess I really need to describe this project to you. This Item 4B & it's more than just a levee. Uh, part of that, part of that levee that you see in yellow there is, one thing it is, is uh eng'd fill, to take care of all this g/p material. BW: I'm familiar with that. JZ: Uno, that part & also, it includes some relief wells for underseepage of the levee. & uh, the relief wells uh, are kind of in a, in an area where there have been ground, ground water contamination.
& uh, & there's Superfund sites for ground water contamination, but it's being CLEANED UP at this, at this point in time, by MDNR. & so there's a need to coordinate on putting in relief wells into this same, very same ground water. & Andy &, & the city have uh developed a plan uh to present to this Mo, MDNR to get approval of uh, Superfund work. & that, that has been submitted to MDNR & they are now reviewing it. I think uh, Corps, COE of course has worked with uh, the city on the preparation of that at this place & time. So that's another, another aspect.
Uh, just in general, the overall design effort for the final levee, the, the preparation of P&S, uh for, for the levee & the uh, this, the concrete gravity drains &, & things that are assoc'd with the levee, as well as these relief wells that, that's all proceeding. & that's part of, that's the COE's responsibility for that design & to coordinate everything with, with the city.
& uh, at the same time, the city is proceeding with land acquisition. We do have some parcels remaining to be acquired, the city does. As you know, the city is responsible for lands & relocations & there also is some, a need for a Phase 2 HTRW Study in the AL area, um which is uh, gonna be done by Purdy & Assoc. So that's, that's kind of a just a recap of some of the things that still need to be done & some of the things that have been done with regarding uh, the last -
8/19/02 Levee - Section 11 of 22
TW: Jim, you may also want to mention about det areas. JZ: That's true. I mean on the uh landward side of the, of the levee, you can see them there; they're not shaded in, but they're, uno, in order to handle interior rainfall, we don't have any pumps assoc'd with this project. BW: They've always been in there. JZ: We have det ponds. BW: Det, yeah. JZ: Yeah, that's part of the project, right. That's part of the area that, that the g/p is in part of that area, as well as uh, some of the trees.
BW: How deep are you gonna go with the, the uh key of this levee? The key, the key of it? JZ: Well, ok, there's a, there's a uh, a kind of a trench that's dug along the ctr of the levee - BW: Yeah. JZ: inspection trench & then they just look to see if there's any problems there, any, any pipes that weren't expected - BW: That's, yeah - JZ: _ _(from Pat?). I, I don't remember exactly. I just don't know _ _ _ -
BW: They checked it down - JZ: _ _10' or something below than that, the base, 10 or 15' - BW: _ storm water was put in 50 or 75 yrs ago that - JZ: Yeah, they'll be looking for that. BW: They'll find it when the next flood comes _ _ _ _ _ _ - JZ: You want to find 'em before, beforehand, right? ?: _ _. JZ: So that's all I have on Item 4B.
8/19/02 Levee - Section 12 of 22
DC: Ok, I'll make another cmt; we'll be using the roads off of Pharoah into the uh, Sports Complex as a access road for the contractor to get into the g/p. & he'll go thru on the blacktop road around & up towards this uh, abandoned uh, ballpark there. Keep, keeping out of the area that the school, uh Catholic Church uses for their soccer fields & their ballfields, tryin' to keep it outta there uh, to uh, & keep it more or less, there's a swale out there & they'll be on the top of that. So they'll go thru it & that, that's where they'll be using their, having their equipmt down there. We'll not set up any kind of a - that won't be required for to have a field office or anything at that time.
But uh, & I will be giving, putting up a map as soon as I find a place for it, of the project that you see there, a full scale. Uh, right now I've got it all together & everything & it's uh 12' long, but I gotta find a wall to put it up. So it actually will show on there you will see, if you'll see all the uh property that the city has the ROW on, also det pools. Uh, it won't show anything that's completed; all the levee, how thick the levee is in places; all the roads that go up on it, levee road & everything. Soon as I find a wall - I may have to put it downstairs in Emergency Mgmt room uh so you can take a look at it, but I don't have a wall, there's not a wall up here that's big enough to put it on. So, but I'll get that up probably in the next couple of wks, soon as I can find a place to put it. & then you can all take a, anytime you wanna take a look at it, you can see actually where the uh, where the boundaries of the levee are.
8/19/02 Levee - Section 13 of 22
The other thing I'd like to bring up now is I think it's time that maybe we started uh, getting some uh, temp const esmts on some property if we haven't had it. I don't know if uh, the COE has contacted the city uh, about getting these temp estmts or anything else; where they're located at, uh & everything, have you, Jim?
JZ: I'm not sure what, what you're talkin' about. We have - DC: Well, we have a temp, some kind of a temp esmt down by the Cotton Plant there off of 5th - JZ: We've provided, uno, a request for certain perm esmts & temp esmts quite a while ago. & so I'm not sure if you're talking about something new. DC: I don't know whether we got 'em. Uh, we don't have 'em from the cotton plant because we've been stopped twice down there about pkg cars on their property.
& just last wk - JZ: _ _ _ - DC: when we had a mtg, they came over & talked to us about it & I don't think we have any ROW uh, from the, from the street uh across the uh, switch track there, or the siding track over to wherever their property is. & probably the only thing that we're going to do is get a temp esmt, is up to that block uh lift sta, or whatever that is, for the cotton plant, the old cotton plant. I mean we'll probably need some kind of temp esmt. I mean we have a ROW line along somewhere down in that treeline. Uh, I think uh, your fellas were out there surveying last wk. I think they've got that all marked off -
TW: Yeah, there were some boundary issues that we're trying to clear up - DC: Right. TW: that weren't matching uh, with some of the previous surveys - DC: Right. TW: that we were given when we started on the project.
So & I happened to have one of the esmts I was gonna give to Eric is uh, up there at the Meramec Venture Assoc, uh there's a small strip that the COE had asked for some add'l property. Then we also have a uh, sewer esmt back there & that's, that's been completed & tied down. Some of this is just an on-going thing that we're physically having to resurvey some of this area that didn't quite match up properly. So that's an on-going process. DC: I talked to Kirk & he was, he was trying to get it straightened out - TW: Yeah, we've got our surveyors, uh workin' on it.
DC: He's been workin', tryin' to get them lines straightened out, but I did notice when I was layin' this map out here, that there are some temp, back maybe down in back of where Rideout has got that, or that uh place down there off of Pharoah - EM: Yeah, it's Kirchner. DC: Kirchner is behind Simpson - EM: _ there when you - DC: & a - EM: see - DC: a con - EM: Simpson - DC: crete plant down there. uh, & uh something, probably, I don't know what that, what that uh, all those bldgs are right there on Marshall Rd right down from 5th St, where they painted a peutrid green color something, that's got a tanks on 'em & everything. Is that old pump stations or lift sta for the cotton plant? Does anybody know what that is? We go right up to it; we don't take that in as a temp esmt, but there is an esmt that's supposed to be uh in that area down there.
EM: Well, the, the COE's asked for a temp const esmt to fill the old det basin or the old they called it the, the - TW: lagoon? EM: Yeah, black pond or - TW?: that old - EM: something like that, or red pond. DC: Are they gonna fill it up higher than it is now? EM: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, & then we butt up, our de, we have all the land necessary for the det basin, uh, it, but the purpose of filling it up was, is to create a berm so that, obviously the det basin is a lower area, so that it doesn't all drain into THEIR low area.
DC: Are we, are we working with them people, the cotton plant or something down there? Because I, I asked the fella & he said we didn't have, we didn't have any esmts or anything over there. & he was very agreeable; he didn't say anything; he said he wanted to make sure because we went over there & started cuttin' some brush down along in there & it wasn't on, really on our ROW or whatever it is. & then he came down later & we had all the cars parked there & he wanted to know just what it was doin'. & I told him, I said I don't - he said, well it's alright, but he said I just wanted you to know that, uno, this is, this is our property & everything.
EM: I've been in touch with their former mgr. Uh, I, I don't know if he's still the mgr. DC: I don't either. He was just a maintenance man. EM: We're just waiting for uh, uh, legal descriptions. DC: Ok, so we're in contact with these, with these, uh, I guess in a sense. EM: Well, before they went out of business, I, I was in contact with 'em, but we're still waiting for legal descriptions. DC: Ok, ok, fine. Well, uno, it's - EM: Contact me. DC: Ok, that's all I have on Item 4B & that.
8/19/02 Levee - Section 14 of 22
Uh, B is city cost share for the project & TPC, does anybody, & we'll combine that with federal & sponsor funding for FY 2003. I guess 2002 is about over with, so -
CLM: I can give you an update on the federal budget for 2003. Uno, the Pres's budget request is for $600,000 even tho the COE has a much larger capabiltiy, like uh, $4.2 Million. & the uh House apparently has not marked up their final # yet, but the Energy & Water Aprops Subcmte, however, the Senate Energy & Water Sub, Subcmte HAS marked up.
& we've been informed by Senator Bond's office that Senator Bond was successful in adding the 3.4 Million to that $600,000 so that the Senate Subcmte will be reporting (someone coughs ) Million Dollars for out-projects for FY 2003. Normally, whatever the Subcmte reports to the _ _ _ _ Aprops Cmte for a project of this nature, & with the type of support that uh, we have for the project, where we included in the Senate version of the bill that they will fax & send in the House. We haven't got a read yet on what the amt in the House _ _will be, but _ _ _ somehow $4 Million coming in the Senate bill, means that we're going to be very close to having the full amt of money that the COE can use in FY 2003... (exchange tapes) ...
...JZ?: ...office. I'm Carolyn Pelot with Sen Carnahan's office. I almost interjected but you got the # right 'cause it did come out to 4 & not 3.4. CLM: (someone coughs) what's you hear _ _ _ _ _ _ ? DC: Is this the lady that's replacing Tom? Carol: No, I work for Sen Carnahan. CLM: Sen Carnahan's office. DC: Oh! Ok, fine. JW: _ _ _ _ _ democrats _ _ _. (someone laughs) I didn't think there was anybody but me out here. Carol: Just took a phone call & just ended up in the wrong place _ _ _ _. CLM: Well we're glad you're here & hope you continue to come to all the mtgs. We look fwd to working with you. Carol: I'll certainly try. CLM: Appreciate your help very much.
JZ: I guess I got a couple of things under these same 2 items. Um, up until, up thru, thru this point in time, we're, we're make, uh basing our cost share on the previous approved cost est & um, uno, we have asked the city for a Million Dollars for FY '02. & they have now provided that with an add'l check for $700,000, going into the escrow acct, couple, about a wk, a wk or so ago.
Uh, we requested uh $81,000 of cash contributions for FY '03 from the sponsor & uh, by 9/15, we asked them to put that in the escrow acct. Uh, so with that, with those kinds of monies, then uh uno, we're in, in, in good shape as far getting spon, sponsor funds, uh, we do have an on-going effort to uh get the city's costs uh, documented & the, there's a lot of progress that has been made on that. We're down to the, the very last part of that for uh, actual costs, expenditures on lands & relocations by the sponsor over, over the life of the project.
& uh, so once we have gone thru that final process, & then (have 'em?) say we've revised our total cost est based on those kinds of lands costs, then we will uh check to see if there's a need to, well, recompute the TPC & the cash contribution. & that certainly could change the requiremt, or reduce the requiremt for cash contributions, uh, if the land costs are significantly higher than our current est which looks like they will be.
8/19/02 Levee - Section 15 of 22
JH: Are the land costs public knowledge or public info? JZ: Um - EM: Yes. JZ: I would think so. JH: What areas, what areas were paid for? EM: Yes. JZ: I think so. (Several seconds of silence.)
BW: Is the position you have the levee, is that it? That where it's gonna go? JZ: Yes. BW: So you know all what properties have to be acquired? JZ: Umm, yeah, in, in general, there's, there's a few things that could be changed, but not the, not the whole _ _, but like a ramp up the levee.
For example, I'm, we're working with the city on - BW: & has the COE identified all the properties affected? JZ: We, we have, but there may be uh, some slight revisions to that. BW: If you start on this 1/03, I assume you're starting on the whole 4B, the whole thing, the closure - JZ: We'll just be doing the tree clearing. BW: Oh, '03 is just tree clearing? JZ: Right, 1/03, right. BW: Oh, so we're yrs away from - JZ: Not yrs away, but uh, that's what's happening in '03; 1/03 is tree clearing. In order to proceed with - BW: Oh, I misunderstood; I thought they were just startin' the levee in '03, but you're gonna start clearing trees in '03.
JZ: In order to proceed with the overall contract, ok, the city has to have acquired all the land needed for the contract. BW: Have, has the COE identified all the land? JZ: We've identified all the land, but there's some, some slight changes that may be needed. For example, the city is talking about bringing a fire truck, uh, across during, during times when Hiway 141 & I guess the RR is closed off. Uh, bringing a fire truck up around, underneath the um, Hiway 141 bridge, or the RR bridge, right by the Meramec River & have to ramp up this levee. Well, that would be a slight change to the riverside, the land requiremt for the levee, ok, that we've provided. But I think, uno again, I think we could work out that the city has already, uno, they, they may have to take a -
BW: Before the COE can start on any, on any levee, the city has to have all the properties - JZ: Yes. BW: bought & paid for, done with, & turned over to you, turned over the to COE - JZ: Well - BW: before any const is gonna be done? CLM: We need even more than that. Why dont you explain, Jim. _ _ _
JZ: Uh, the city's required to buy the land, ok, & then our real estate people have to, uno really check to make sure that everything that we said is bought, IS bought. We have to check all the legal descriptive, survey, legal descriptions, all those kinds of things. Then we, we certify, our real estate people certify to our contracting people that all the real estate is acquired for this property. & in fact, the city provides the certification of an, atty certification that they have all the requiremts for the project. BW: Ok. JZ: Before we can advertise the job, before we can even advertise -
BW: I realize that. CLM: There's a lag ever after all that's done before const starts. BW: But you do have to own all the property before anything can be done? JZ: Right. BW: The city has to have purchased it? JZ: Right, yes. BW: Ok. & you've identified all the properties, except for - JZ: Except for maybe some minor little things.
BW: How many properties are left to be ownable, bought yet? JZ: That, that's, really I think that's the city's report to you on that. It's their job. EM: 13. BW: 13? EM: 13 separate interests. BW: It was 14 the other day. EM: Ok, what 14? (BW laughs) What, whatever, 13 or 14! BW: It doesn't matter whether there's 13 or 14? EM: Uh, I, I, I don't think so. BW: Oh, ok. EM: It's -
8/19/02 Levee - Section 16 of 22
DA: Mr. Chair, may I say a word here real quick? DC: Yes, sir. DA: On, on the real estate purchase, & uh this cmsn probably doesn't know, that at the request of some corporate citizens of VP, um, the bd of ald have been taking a different approach about some of the property. Um, typically, I think the procedure is to get a um, identify the needs to the um, appraisal; offer fair market value & then attempt a purchase for that. & then if unsuccessful, um contract on fair market um purchase is done, the next logic step then would be to take it thru condemnation.
The bd said no, because these are citizens, let's try to negotiate more, even if we pay slightly more than that. I could tell you my position now because real estate seems to be a huge issue here now, & accountability for this levee & the lack of, or the perception of lack of progress.
I'm gonna, tonight, make a motion that the city, um, make their fair market value offer, & at that point move directly into um condemnation, solely to get this forward. Again, it will clean up any of the monkey business & any perception of monkey business out there on that. We'll get this project done & that's gonna be my um, intent. Um, hopefully, I'll get support from the bd to do that. So that -
8/19/02 Levee - Section 17 of 22
BW: Over the yrs, I've heard it from it's all bought, it's half bought, it's 10 pieces, 18, 14, 15; there's #'s all over. & then it was always the COE's fault; well, the COE never told us what, told the city what property to buy; so as far as we're concerned, we got it all bought since we haven't been told to buy any more & - CLM: What you - BW: I hear these stories -
CLM: What you probably've heard is that it's for that particular next segment of the levee - BW: I'm sure that was, uh - CLM: you were being told all the project had been bought, but then you got the next segwage. Ok so this levee alignment, as uno, the levee alignmt likely changed. It was changed - BW: Many times it's changed. CLM: Yeah. BW: That's why I was asking, is it set yet? JZ: Umhuh. BW: It is pretty close now?
TW: Even tho our office is still working on some of those adjustmts & like one, one of 'em we just finished today, was up on the western end of the project. CLM: They do the legal desc. TW: Right. BW: Oh, I understand all that. TW: We had a sewer esmt that we had to write; & so it's an on-going thing; & we've gotta check - BW: I, I've heard the stories go back & forth & back & forth: it's the COE's fault; & it's the city's fault; & it's the COE's fault; & the city don't know where the levee is, so we can't buy any property; & then the - TW: Well, I think we have a pretty good idea - BW: COE can't do anything because the city don't buy any property; & -
TW: Well, our office was kind of recently brought onto the levee project; & we've got a check list established; & we're workin' with our surveyors; & we're peckin' away the best we can. BW: So where do you get your list from? TW: The li, we get a drawing from the COE & then we take a look at the COE drawing & we overlay that with the parcels & then we actually, physically survey the parcels to determine how much of the property or the whole property needs to be acquired. Then we write a legal desc for that; show it on & then that's when Eric takes it to, to negotiation & - JW: Tom, I think you need to clarify too that you just got these uh duties -
TW: Right, but there are some that we've had trouble with. & uno, like I said, Eric is waiting on us on many of these properties. &, & it's not his fault, it's just that we've had a lot of properties with a boundary that we were given originally, was not correct. So we're correcting a lot of those properties. One, you've seen us surveying along Marshall Rd. There was a vost in the physical boundary of the survey of the property that we had acquired before. We're trying to make sure that we're correct & that. So it's a, it's a, it's a time-consuming process, but we also don't want to make any mistakes. & so that's what we're - BW: I, I understand all that.
TW: But we DO have a list that we're working on & like Eric said, & I can't swear if it's 14 or 15 or 13. But it, it's an identified list: partial properties, some that were just esmts only; some that are actual, the whole property; & there's several in Arnold's area; & then there's so & several over in the Pharoah; there's another thing that we're dealing with with the relocation of a lift sta over there in the Pharoah area, & we're trying to work that out so that the sewers, so we don't have to incur a big expense in uh, rebuilding the lift sta. So there's a looootta issues that are goin' on that are all related to that. But we do have a list & we are peckin' away at it the best we can. Do have a full-time survey crew workin' on that now. & so that's, uno, it's, it's a process.
BW: Well, I just wanted to hear from the COE if they've identified the lands. TW: They have identified, I'd say 99% of 'em to us & they're tweeking it a little bit, but - JZ: Last uh, a yr ago last Aug, we provided our final ROW drawings - TW: Right. JZ: that show all the temp & perm const esmts, coordinates on aaalll the different places - TW: Right. JZ: Uh, so uno - TW: & we just started up. JZ: that's what we provided, whether they'll be a, uno, a few little changes because of this nuance or that nuance. TW: I think there have been even since we started workin' on it in June. JZ: But, but in general, uno, there's, that's, that's been - BW: a yr ago in Aug - JZ: That's what we're working on. Right. BW: you had your final list? JZ: Right.
8/19/02 Levee - Section 18 of 22
DA: & somethin' because, uno, so we understand this, um, quite a few yrs ago, that, on, on purchases & ROW, &, & leases on property, the city bought a large piece of property or leased a piece for the purpose of excavating um material for the levee. The problem was at that time when it was bought, the city had no place to go with it, & before it got completed, um, our lease ran out; um, so we spent a lot of money.
& there, there's not a person in this room responsible for that. There's not a, uh single member in here that was involved in this project at that time. So again, we gotta be real careful that when we go & to get property, it is the right piece because that costs the city a great deal of money that um, wasn't necessary. & again, I'mona say this man was not the atty. There wasn't anybody in this room, um, -
JW: Hey, are you talkin' about when we pre-paid for the dirt - DA: Right, absolutely. BW: Yeah I'm familiar with that. JW: that we did a few yrs ago? DA: Yeah, & you have _ _ _ again, but - BW: I've been in this, up on this project since it was the beginning. DA: You were not responsible with this because you, this cmsn wasn't even established at that time. I wanna make sure everybody understands that. BW: Well, I, uno, that, that's was a whole different issue.
JW: When was that? DA: Um, it was back in - EM: 1995. DA: At least '95 in that area. But again, there was nobody in this, in this room here - BW: Well, it, it would've worked out great if the, if the levee would've gone on the uh schedule that was hoped to go on at that time. DA: It, it was not physically even possible at that time. But again well, I think that intentions were well, uh to, to do that with those people who were involved, but it just um, maybe a longer lease would've been appropriate at the time, but that, we've got that covered now. EM?: Correct.
8/19/02 Levee - Section 19 of 22
DC: Does that cover the Item 8B & C? I think we've covered the g/p update with Item A on Item 4B update. Uh, Item E is Maureen Morris. Do you have any ques here on the levee? MM: Um, I just wanted to comment that the surveyors were on my property again; & I had just asked that I receive a letter, asking for permission to enter.
TW: Eric, do we need to coordinate that with you or how? EM: Are we done surveying? TW: Well, I'll have to check the surveyors 'cause I know some of our stakes were pulled, & so uh, I have to make sure that they don't need to reestablish that right, but they're finished. MM: Tom, are you using Poehlmann? TW: Yeah, Poehlmann is a, a company. MM: Oh, they're like a subcontractor for you.? TW: Yes, they're, they're, they're a co that we use on a regular basis, right.
Ed: _ _ _ _they've been out there diggin' 'em up, but they're not supposed to be diggin' it. TW: Lookin' for corners & things? Ed: No, they're diggin', looks like holes for - they're corin'. TW: Well, that's not us. CLM: Those are not surveyors, those - Ed: There's corin' on my property, somebody's corin'. TW: I don't know. Ed: That's on Arnold Dr, #1. EM: There's some test borings, uh - TW: I wonder if that's env'l related; is that anything - Ed: Nobody's supposed to be coring on my property. TW: I don't think - that's not my office. CLM: Maybe Purdy's doin' it. I don't know. TW: It's not my office. EM: Are we doing any testing? Ed: nice & round, _ _ -
JZ: I don't think we have started, but we have, we have plans to do some, a few um - EM: But they were over on the other side of the levee. JZ: But there's one or two over in AL & I think - Ed: Somebody cored on my property. JZ: But they didn't start that I know of. Ed: I talked to my lawyer & he said he hasn't given anybody permission & I sure as hell didn't.
CLM: Did you see the people out there? Ed: Nooo, but I know a core when I see one. CLM: No, no, I just wondered if you saw 'em. Ed?: a round - CLM: Any way to identify their trucks. Ed: Your surveyors staked it. TW: Right. TW: But we, I don't think we - Ed: Now I'm not havin' any problem with surveyors. TW: Yeah, I mean - Ed: But they're not supposed to be corin' the property & _ _ _ -
CLM: No, I'm just tryin' to figure out if you might've seen a truck or something we could figure out who was doin' it. Ed: Yeah, well, no, no. TW: 'cause only thing my guys would be doin' is just diggin' up to locate a property corner, but that wouldn't, that wouldn't be very - Ed: I've got core in like 2 or 3 different places. I mean that's coring, that's not - TW: I don't' know who that would be. It's not me 'cause we're not soil.
EM: Might be part of a remedial effort, uh with uh, & we've got 3 operating units with those. Ed: 'cause my, _ _ _ , Eric, uno my lawyer told you no. EM: I know; we, we asked for permission to go on & check it env'ly & you said no & that's right. Ed: _ _ it has nothin' to do with me, it has to do with my lawyer. EM: I, I understand. Ed: He's runnin' the place.
CLM: Was that DNR or state _ _? EM: Yeah, I mean, it's possible. ?: _ _ _ - Andy: I've certainly not heard anything in my discussions. ?: _ _ _. Andy: It's certainly not to do with my co. Ed: I mean when I saw him (evicted?) _ _ _ _ - CLM: Must be you. (someone laughs) DC: Is that all you had, Maureen? JZ: I don't think so. MM: (nods yes). DC: Ok, tku. Ok, uh, F is - JZ: I'll check with 'em (chuckle). DC: property acquisition. Have we covered that with Dan, or are you want to -
8/19/02 Levee - Section 20 of 22
DM: I'd guess too I could know for follow-up on Bob's questions, if we could get a list of these 14 properties so we know as we're closin' in on it, that's what it takes to get the COE thru to the next stage, buy all - JW: _ the list yet? DM: I'm not aware of - JW: Do you know where the14 are? DM: Right. So can we get that? Is that -
TW: We've got a hold on it, so we can get that. I think I gave you one initially & - DM: You gave me a list of what it takes to get it - TW: Right. DM: But I don't remember a list OF the properties. So you have to do this & this & this, but if you know the levee's goin' thru this area & we don't know the exact footage I say it's 1000 Marshall, just thrown out a #, so we know we need part of 1000 Marshall & part of - TW: Right, well, here's kind of an example of what we're, we're preparing for each of the properties that shows, we use 'em as the square footage -
DM: I mean to go out & survey, uno, have to know where that is. I mean you just don't blindly walk out (JW chuckles) & just start - (someone laughs) JW?: _ _ _ _there - DM: put a pole like Columbus or somethin'. But uh -
CLM: You just want a list of addresses, Dan, or you want a list showing the, the survey of the property itself? DM: At least the addresses now, & then the steps, I've got listed from Tom here; what each thing that we have to do once we know where it's goin'. So if any, like part of this address & part of that, so that all address that we need part or all of it, & then we can start, & say ok, it was a close in on it, final acquisition.
JW: Dan, I would like it to see if the chair bd would allow me to make a motion that the next uh, Levee Cmsn that we ALL have that list. I think this cmsn deserves to have that info. DC: It's your perrogative to make that recommendation. JW: I'll move in that direction that this be brought to the next Levee Cmsn mtg. I don't think that's askin' too much time too quick, is it? I guess it'd be you & then Eric - TW: No, we won't probably have 'em all surveyed & recorded & - JW: No, I don't _ _ - TW: We'll have 'em - DM: Like I say, if you don't need all this, this table's one piece of property & you need part of it, just say _ _ _ - TW: I'll make that _ -
BW: What format do you give the lands required to, to him? JZ: They're drawings, detailed drawings. BW: Of? Are they (pause) - TW: Dimensions. JZ: The, the lines, uno, there's a line on a drawing saying we need _ _ ROW. ?: _ _ - JZ: along _ - BW: But you don't, you aren't defining who owns what properties, where & what's - JZ: No, no the properties, we don't have the property locations.
(For these next 3 paragraphs, at the mtg I imagined deciphering hell as they talked at once, some indecipherably) ?: That's where you come in. BW: Ok, that's what you're - TW: That's where - BW: tyin' into the other - TW: we come in & that's where - BW: Ok, so he gives - TW: boundary - BW: you a - TW: for instance, on, over at Valley Material - BW: survey line - TW: it's over 40' bluffs that's on their property - BW: to come thru here from this point to this point - TW: which we have to resurvey the whole property. BW: & then he determines - JZ: which properties are involved. BW: what properties are infected. JZ: Yeah, in fact you can't tell, sometimes you can't tell which, if it's right on the border line, you can't tell until you have a survey that actually determines- BW: Right - JZ: where the property line is. ?: Who knows.
JW: You're not against (skeetch?) anyway, are ya? DC: If Zambrana did that; they had it screwed up; I know that, I already heard uh - (kid or Kit?) already screwed _ that. DA: Tom, some of that's pretty rough surveyin' country as well I know it is - ?: Oh yeah. DA: _ _ type _ _ _.
TW: It is & I'm not makin' excuses; I'm just, I'm tellin' y'all that we're working on it. It's a systematic thing & Eric's been pressuring me as he should be; & but, we're tryin' to peck away at it. & it's, I said, if we wouldn'tve had a lot of the mistakes to go back - CLM: survey - TW: & rehash; like I say, we had a 40' bust on Valley Material's property - CLM: the city - TW: & we had to resurvey a whole boundary to determine what was goin' on along that driv, that RR track; & I think we got that squared away. Now we gotta get it described & get it to Eric so he can make the, the proper acquisition.
DC: I think he's gonna _ _ _ - ?: No, no one's gonna _ _ _ - JW: Ok, that's fine. DC: I don't think we even need a motion for that. I think uh - TW: No, that's - DC: Eric's gonna - JW: Alright. DC: get that to us & - TW: That's a great idea; we'll get it done. CLM: Next mtg, Tom'll say, I didn't bring that 'cause you didn't make a motion _ _ _ (they laugh) TW: I'm not like that. DC: You get it all together before then - TW: I will - DC: just get it, give it to Eric & we'll make a, I'll have Terry make copies & we'll include it in the -
8/19/02 Levee - Section 21 of 22
JH: Ok, so back to properties purchased - DC: Ok. JH: & all the lists of the properties; & you said the costs were public info. How would you go about attaining that? JZ: Well, I think you probably should go to the city for that.
Ed: _ _ they're gonna have to come up with a real list of _ _ _ _rental property. It's all commercial property & that ground _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _commercial price. You would've had the property already if you'd just come up with the price. EM: Well, we'll talk to you in court about that, that's what that's all about. Ed: Well, I mean you still would need to know this _ _ _ _ _. All that property would've already been bought if you'd give the right price for it.
JW: What was you offered? Ed: 40 cents for commercial property for Christ sakes! I sold it for $7.50 right across the street from there. It's stupid! It's not even in the ballfield! EM: Ed's only wantin' something like a Million Dollars or so for it. Ed: I did not, I said $7.(5?)5 a foot! EM: Well, & there's a considerable amt of sq ft that you have out there.
DA: Probably inappropriate with the speak of this - DC: We won't get into those arguments here in this mtg; we'd have, we don't, we don't _ _ - Ed: Well that's your problem! DC: We don't, we don't do that; that's handled by property acquisition & we don't do that stuff here.
8/19/02 Levee - Section 22 of 22
MM: Well, now at AL, you were gonna put the levee in the first place on the south side of Arnold Dr; right? Way back when, but now it's gonna come over & take like my property because you need a place for the eng'd fill; right? (pause) Is that right? DC: Yes, maam; that's all I can tell ya. That's what we're doin'. MM: Said you have no place else to put the eng'd fill, & that's why you need my property, part of it; right?
DC: I didn't determine that. I would, you would have to talk to the engineers who designed it, where they're gonna put the, the eng'd fill, why they're makin' it thick up there, higher up there, or thicker, or whatever. I mean it's uh, that's was an eng'd thing. I mean - MM: What are the names of the engineers?
Ed: Well, you're only, you're only talkin' about 20 feet _ _ _ just stay back 20', all the problems will be solved, the south side of Arnold would be - DC: Well, I think they have a, they have a certain distance they have to stay away from the river, _ _ _. Ed: No, I'm talkin' about this side of the levee. MM: Well, you said that the river side never changed, right? Ed: The river side is stayin' exactly where it was.
EM: This, this is really counter-productive. I mean we - DC: I mean we can talk - EM: talk about this - DC: about this forever & ever - EM: EVERY time! DC: & ever. I mean the levee is already, it's already designed & it we, we'll have to uno, acquire the properties; & that'll be done thru a, thru legal whatever & uh, where the levee is goin' is pretty much a set proposition right now. So we're, I don't think we're goin' -
MM: Yeah, I just wanted to verify that you need my property just for a place to put the eng'd fill. That's all I was asking. DC: Uhhh, we, I'm not the eng'd fill; we need your property to put the levee up & if we don't get your property, then we don't put the levee up. That's, that's the facts right there, so I mean if you feel that - MM: But the levee's what a hundred - DC: If you feel that you're being discriminated about this, uh, I feel that maybe you're bein' discriminated to the City of VP with the levee. So if you don't want the levee -
MM: Well, the levee is what about 150' at the base? DC: I'm not gonna argue. I, I've said enough. I'm not gonna argue with you, Maureen. Uno, it's - MM: Well, can anybody else answer, the levee is 150 foot at the base, every place already where it's built; but at AL it's gonna be about 300' at the base. Why does it need to be twice as big at AL? Ed: _ _need 250 ft & leave the other, leave the other side alone.
DA: The COE built this levee & they're the professionals. If they say they need it, they need it! & you should stay that, that _ _ _. MM: Well, Jim, you're the Project Mgr for the COE; why does the levee have to be 300, twice as wide at the base at AL? JZ: There's a lot, there's a lot of eng'g reasons. Um, but there's underseepage concerns. MM: Underseepage? JZ: Right. MM: More so at AL than other places? JZ: It depends on what the uh, what the layer of clay, of the thickness of the clay & so forth is, in a given area. Uh, & there's also just the general plan for use of the g/p material.
DA: & you've also got a creek & a river that you're protecting from, at that point. I don't know that that has anything to do with it, but if the COE says they need it, they need it! You don't have a choice on that.
MM: Well, I understand the COE says you need it, you need it, but it's what you need it for. Uno, I think everybody's well aware that my thoughts are you want to say you need it for the levee, so that you can lowball it; tear the property down after you get it cheap; & you're gonna use this eng'd fill to improve the property; & then sell it for big bucks to developers!
DA: We have to go somewhere with the eng'd fill anyway. We got to go somewhere so if it isn't there, it's goin' somewhere else. So I - MM: Well, that's why I ask. DA: If the COE says it needs to go there - MM: So you're tellin' me there's no place else to put the eng'd fill, except on my property? You can't - EM: Mr, Chair, I'm getting paid by the hour & there's - MM: put it all on top of land the city already bought?
DC: Discussion, this discussion's supposed to last 2 mins & it's gone way over; & we're arguing on somethin' that's - CLM: You need to set the date of the next mtg, Dave. DC: cut & dried for, for a # of yrs already. Uh, next levee Cmsn mtg will be 9/16/02, 5:00, same place. I need a motion to adjourn. JW: Motion to adjourn. DC: I need a 2nd. ?&?: 2nd. DC: All in favor? (some, possibly all aye) Mtg's adjourned. Thank you.
Notes: Click on the Contact MOPR button & send in your CQA's or snail to MOPR, PO Box 240274, Ballwin, MO 63024-0274.
CQA# LEV20020819-01A) DM, Jim who?
CQA# LEV20020819-03A) Should money be deducted from EM's paycheck for each failure to have required copies of mtg mins available for approval at the proper time & place; & if so, how much?
CQA# LEV20020819-04A) Elliott, tell us about the positive spin, factual info & no-blame parts. B) DA said, "I can tell you, the surest way to stop this levee right now, take this man out; let's start all over; & it will be a long time before we get started again." Is that a threat? C) Suppose EM is taken out & does not submit all levee-related records to the proper person within 2 wks, what should his penalties be?
CQA# LEV20020819-05A) What's in store? B) Would you approve Elliott's agenda? C) A reasonably short period of time - Oh Pleeeassee!!! D) Ok, ok, ok, ok! So how much ARE each of you paid, & what are the benefits & perks, if any?
CAQ# LEV20020819-06A) How many Indiana Bats are we talking about? B) Could the Indiana Bat requiremts have been redesigned, amended &/or revised in this case? C) What exactly is the name of the const co out of Columbia, MO & what's the scoop on them?
CAQ# LEV20020819-07A) May we please have a copy of all tree-clearing P&S? B) Will there be a park area between the trail & River Rd; & if so, must it remain a park forever? C) Please clarify the 4B tree-clearing acre estimates: For example: Total ____ ; Phase 1, COE, g/p ___ ; Phase 2, COE, AL ___; Phase 2A city, possible park between River Rd & the trail ____.
CAQ# LEV20020819-08A) May we please have a copy of the COE's mins for all their mtgs & hand-outs in connection with the VP Levee Project? B) Is $97,000 a reasonable price for quickly cutting down 10 ac of g/p trees & stacking them to the side?
CQA# LEV20020819-09A) Is Terry Norris the COE archaeologist they're talking about? B) How many others will be involved; what are their names, & how much is each paid? C) Should Vic James be sure they don't demolish anything in the g/p while they're demolishing the entire g/p? D) How much will it cost the City of VP to haul off this load of special waste after the contract? E) Where did the city already move those 1000+ tires from the g/p; what was the TPC, & may we please have a copy of the paperwork? F) Could a VP School Photography class get some snapshots for us of this special waste & the tree clearing work? G) Couldn't the City of VP have sprayed for the misquitos? H) Is there, or will there be a County Health Dept bill to the city for spraying; & if so, how much?
CQA# LEV20020819-10A) Who are the other agencies involved with the COE's env'l mit draft? B) Why can't the COE get Superfund work approval from MDNR without Purdy? C) Are the underseepage relief wells in the contaminated ground water area or not? D) When did the clean-up start & when will the VP Superfund sites be completely cleaned up? E) What's the financial scoop on the VP Superfund work? F) Exactly why were 2 HTRW Study Phases mandated? G) Please provide a detailed cost analysis for each HTRW Study.
CQA# LEV20020819-11A) What difference does it make whether or not the det ponds are shaded in on the drawings? B) Is there going to be an inspection trench/key for the entire 4B levee & just how deep will it be? C) Will MDNR & St L Co Dept of Health approval be required for the entire inspection trench/key?
CQA# LEV20020819-12A) Have you seen DC's 12' long map or copies of it?
CQA# LEV20020819-13A) How long has EM been waiting for the cotton co's legal descriptions? B) Please clarify EM's statemt about filling-in the cotton co's old det pond in order to create a berm so it doesn't all drain into THEIR low area. C) When did the cotton co go out of business? D) Who is the former cotton co mgr that EM was in touch with & where is s/he now? E) Is the cotton co property for sale or what? F) Why should DC contact EM when they're both here now?
CQA# LEV20020819-14A) Should the difference between estimates & actuals be deducted from estimators' paychecks?
CQA# LEV20020819-16A) What do you think about DA's cmts here?
CQA# LEV20020819-17A) Did Zambrana do all the levee-related surveys before TW took over? B) What is the pevious surveyor's explanation for all the inaccuracies? C) How many levee-related surveys were done before TW took over, & what percent of them have been found to be inaccurate so far? D) Have lands been taken erroneously for the levee because of inaccurate surveys? E) Should the city resurvey everything, charge the previous surveyor for the new surveys & related costs on those that are wrong; & demand reimbursemt for his original, erroneous surveys?
CQA# LEV20020819-18A) Exactly when was it that the city leased that large piece of property for levee material excavation, & who was the levee atty at that time? B) Who are the responsible aldermen? C) Which type of levee material was it? D) Just how & where did they think it would be used when they signed the lease? E) Who was the property leased from & how much did it cost? F) When was the Levee Cmsn established? G) BW, tell us about that whole different issue. H) Exactly what & how do they have it covered now?
CQA# LEV20020819-19A) Presuming #1 Arnold was cored, who did it & why?
CQA# LEV20020819-20A) How much did this new Valley Material survey cost? B) Do you believe that the COE provides the city with detailed drawings & yet the COE does not have the property locations?
CQA# LEV20020819-21A) EM, why did you tell the Levee Cmsn that Ed Harrawood is wanting a Million $ or so for his property? B) Choose the more accurate statemt re what court is all about: fair market value, or attys making money?
CQA# LEV20020819-22A) Ed, what's with only 20'? B) Could the levee be put up without taking MM's property? C) MM, a VP Private Investor for over 15 yrs, needs & wants the actual levee as much as everyone else that does, for Pete Sakes! D) Does the eng'd fill have to stay in VP? E) Would #8 Arnold Dr be taken for the levee project if one of the decision makers was the owner; & if so, would the offers be the same?