Notes:  03/23/03 - 2 changes to section 4:  Link added which is also accessible on Docs Page but entitled 2 thru 5/03 TW's ROW & Esmts Lists.  Fager name changed to Feder (tho my source pronounces it Fader with a long "a").


Present:  DC, BW, DS, JKB, CLM, EM, JZ, TW, JW, DM, RS, & BL. 


Also present:  Colonel Kevin Williams, the new Commander, St. Louis District COE;  Renee Kirkiewicz from Senator Michael Gibbons' office;  Jim Mitas from Congressman Akin's office;  Andy McCord of PG Purdy;  & TB.


2/18/03 Levee - Section  1 of  18


DC: ...Probably you've all met our new, the new Colonel Kevin Williams.  He's the new St. Louis District COE Commander.  I think I'll just go around the table & let everybody that hasn't met him, just kind of introduce theirself & tell 'em what they are.  RS: I've met everybody here.  DC:  Huh?  RS:  I think I've met everybody here.  DC:  & so uh - RS:  Maybe this gentleman (referring the Col Wms) here I haven't met.  DC: Yeah, Colonel.  Well, we'll introduce ourselves here.  Let's start with you just introduce yourself -


BW:  I'm Bob Walls, uh Precise Molding & Eng'g business in VP & uh, I'm the rep. from the business cmty for the uh, cmsn.  DS:  Don Smith, that's it;  I just work here.  JW:  Mayor's Assistant (he laughs)  DS:  Mayor's Assistant, yeah.  DC:  He's the non-floodplain rep for the City of VP.  DS:  That's what I am, non-floodplain.  ?: You don't get wet.  DS:  I don't get wet, no.  BW:  We get wet often.  (CLM's intro is indecipherable.) EM: Eric Martin.  JZ:  Jim Zerega, Project Mgr for the COE.  TW: Tom Weis, City Engr for VP.  JW:  Jeff Whitteaker, Ald Ward 3.  ColWms: Kevin Williams, Dist. Engr, St. Louis District.  DM: Mayor Dan Michel.  On behalf of the city, I appreciate you comin' down here.  ColWms:  Thanks for havin' me.  DM:  Everyone has a chance to meet you.  RS:  I'm Ald Rob Stuart, rep. for Ward 1.  DC:  I'm Dave Cusack.  I'm the local coordinator & consultant for the levee.  BL:  I'm Bill Lancaster, Ald, 4th Ward.   (Renee Kirkiewicz says her name & that she's from Senator Mike Gibbons' office.)  MM:  I'm Maureen Morris.  I own #8 Arnold Dr where you want to put a new det pond.  ColWms:  Oh, the pink, the pink house!  MM: Yes (with a smile & _ _ _  _ColWms, Bob Walls & whoever laugh a bit.)  (Andy McCord says his name & that he's with PG Purdy Env'l Consulting Svcs.) TB:  Tom Bolte, Ward _ _.  (Jim Mitas says his name & that he's with Congressman Akin's ofc.)  (One or more people make indecipherable cmts & everyone recites the Pledge of Allegiance.)


DM: Glad you could make it to our mtg.  DC:  Uh, is there any additions or deletions to the agenda.  I have one here, put it under uh, Item D, Maureen Morris.  (They vote somewhat, & approve the agenda.)  We didn't have a quorum at our last mtg, so there's no mins to be approved.  Uh, we'll go into the discussion items.


2/18/03 Levee - Section  2 of  18


Item 8A, which is Item (Phase) 4B update.  I'll just turn it over to anybody that has anything on Item 4, Jim, Eric.  JZ:  Yes, I've got some things.  Uh, want me to start out?  DC:  Yeah, you go ahead.


JZ:  Ok, um, we just took a tour of the cmty with Col Wms & uh, then we drove around & looked at the completed part of the project.  So just to make you aware of that.  Um, & Mike Feldmann, uh, was takin' us on this tour, our const mgr.  Um, he said that uh, the tree clearing in Item 4B, he said the contract I think is sold;  that they are, that they are planning to mobilize next wk;  haven't mobilized yet.  So that's new info. 


Um, the other part of Item 4B is the, the big levee contract that, that we're all working on, & um, that will provide flood protection for VP.  So, essentially, we have a schedule for this, for this contract, that you're aware, uh calls for award of the contract in August, August of '03


Um, & we have a, a schedule for the design effort, uh the next activity is um to distribute our plans & specs for uh, for our technical review within the COE & also um, by the sponsor, was invited to uh, participate in this technical review of the plans & specs.  & also um, the 2 other agencies who are very much involved, the MDNR & St. Louis County Health Dept are involved because of the g/p material & uh, the plan to build eng'd fills using the g/p material.


Anyway, uh, our schedule is for uh, distribution of this set of plans & specs on uh, 3/10 & that is still on schedule, so we contend that that would happen.  & then uh, there would actually be the technical mtg called Vitability, Constructability, Operability, uh a review of these plans & specs to see if we can bid on, to see if someone can bid on them properly;  you know, if it's constructable, uh if it's uh, if it's operable upon construction, & if the env'l rules are followed; all those things called VCOE.  That mtg to review that would be on 4/1;  ok, that's the plan.  & then after that, there's a time, time period when all the cmts & everything have to incorporate into an approved set of plans & specs.  & uh, we have a, a uh plan to issue these plans & specs out to uh, prospective bidders in June, ok.


2/18/03 Levee - Section  3 of  18


Before we can issue the plans & specs to prospective bidders, several things have to happen, ok.  One is that the real estate has to be acquired.  We've been thru this before, but the real estate has to be acquired for the entire contract.  & then our, our real estate ofc has to certify that that's their finding, & -  DM:  What's that deadline, Jim, for __?  JZ:  Uh, the deadline's really the end of May, basically.  DM:  So by end of May, if we've got all the land, then - JZ:  That's, that's, that's what needed.  Another, another thing that has to happen is, & you're aware of this too.  I know we've talked about it, but all the relocations that are assoc'd with the contract, uh, the electric, the telephone, uh, water, etc., have to be, basic, arranged, have to be arranged;   they don't all have to be all completed, but they has to be arranged so that they're gonna be done & not impede the const contract.  &, & our real estate ofc has to be convinced of that.  So that's 2 things. 


& then uh, another thing that has to happen is uh, there's uh, still a need for a Phase 2 Env'l Study in the AL area.  & I, I've, I've talked with Eric about this.  I've talked with uh, Andy McCords;  um, they're well aware of it & you know, they think that it can be done in time.  EM:  Sure.  JZ:  But that has to be done.  For one thing, the uh, the other agencies that MDNR requires that is, that's one of the conditions of them approving our eng'd fill, & uh, the COE itself, itself, wants our contractor to be uh, not have to be concerned about an env'l problem that may show up in this Phase 2 Study - so this Phase 2.  Uh one final - CLM:  Is that BEFORE the award of the contract?  JZ:  Yeah, it's uh, definitely before the award of the contract.  CLM:  The sooner, the better.  JZ:  Yeah, the sooner the better is true.


Uh, the last thing that uh really has to be done from a technical standpoint is that uh, & this is again, something the city's working on thru, thru Purdy & Associates, uh, is a MO Storm Water Permit, MDNR Storm Water Permit for the relief wells that are, that are, uh, at least tentatively, gonna be included in this contract.  Uh, so those are the technical things. 


The other, the other things we need uh, to have the authority to award a contract, to have the uh, funds available & so forth to award a contract.  So that's a general picture.  &, & we uh, I think we're, we're working with the city, we're in the cit, working very close city to, to get all these things accomplished 'cause we know how important it is to award this contract & get work on _ _ final piece of levee _ _ VP.  Unless you have questions, that's my summary. 


2/18/03 Levee - Section  4 of  18


 EM:  If uh you want to turn to the hand-out that uh, Mr. Weis gave you, it's entitled VP, MO Meramec River Levee Land Acquisitions.  I can go thru uh, & update his current status which is on the right-hand margin.  &, & this is really, uh I think a compendium of the land acquisitions that's necessary within the city. 


Umm, 6 Meramec Valley Plaza, uh, I met with uh, Kirk Carson, uh & Gary Fager, atty for Meramec Valley Plaza, uh which is now called Diamond Group, on 2/11/03.  I gave him uh, a, a 2-wk period from that time to uh, either sign the uh, closing documents or uh, we'll be moving on toward condemnation. 


Uh, 101 Marshall Rd was closed in the 2002;  the city's acquired that property.  6 Arnold Dr, uh, Richard McGhee, uh, will be included along with uh, a suit against the shopping ctr, if necessary. 


Uh, 7 Arnold Dr, uh, we're having a Cmnsr's Hearing & I find out uh, on that same day, uh, Monday uh, of next wk;  find out what the uh cmsnrs' award is.  From there, what we do is uh, upon the uh, filing of the cmsnrs' award, the city would pay the money into court & we're entitled to possession of the property, uh, with, within a 60-day period, uh subject to tenants' rights.  &, & then we'll have to start relocation uh, with them. 


Uh, 7 Arnold Dr also has the property that the uh, uh, Phase 2 uh, Study is, is needed on, &, & talked to the tenant about Right of Entry onto that once uh, we have the right to, to uh possess the property, which again will uh, start on Monday.


Uh, 8 Arnold Dr, Maureen Morris, we're also waiting uh, for the shopping ctr.


Uh, 1 Arnold Dr & 4 Arnold Dr & 16 Arnold Dr, all three are uh, the subject of the hearing Monday.  Uh, 8 Meramec Rd was uh purchased in 2002. 


401 & 501 Marshall Rd, that's the US Cotton Co;  uh, a lot of land purchased on that was done back in 1999, of this new ROW uh, necessary.  We received those in uh, Dec um & uh, Kirk Carson & I met with uh their attys at uh Solthouse Kaplan on 2/11, & we got a, a strong indication that, that they're gonna go ahead & close on that.


Uh, 638 Marshall Rd & 701 Marshall Rd, um I got the title work back on that last wk.  & it appears that we needed uh, 6 Deeds of Release from the Bank of America & I have to talk to the Bank of America.  Uh, the, the property owners already agreed, uh, & the city's already agreed with the price & it's, that's just some, we're actually giving out, it's called a Subordination Agreemt as opposed to a Deed of Release;  uh, & it just has to be acquiesced to by the Bank of America. 


Uh, Rondal Investmts, 801 Marshall, uh the deed was prepared uh, actually today upon that & I ordered a check from uh, UMB;  uh, it's already been approved


180 Pharoah Dr, uh we need uh, a Deed of Release from, or a Subordination Agreemt from Colonial Bank.  We do have an agreemt with uh, the Wallace family on that property.  Uh, 9 Arnold Dr, uh was purchased in the yr 2001. 


River Rd properties, uh, let's see, lot 3 of Universal Subdivision on the Meramec, uh I have that deed in my file.  Uh, before I'm gonna recommend the city pay out any money on it, uh it is in a title exam with Capital Title on the plate.  Uh, there's is 2 other properties & St. L County has uh, by letters, & it's got a Parks Dept, has committed to deed those properties over to the city. 


Um, 907 to 1004 Oasis are all temp const esmts.  Uh, uh I don't anticipate any problems other than on 915 Pyramid, um, & that's awkward because the house is being sold at auction on Thursday.  The owner of the property is a bank that foreclosed on it back in Nov.  Uh, so, so we'll find out who, who the owner's gonna be;  it's, it's kind of in a, a strange state right now.


Uh, Young's Restaurant, I, I just got the drawing on, on this (day or date?) on that & that'll go to our appraiser


Uh, &, &, & the next 2, MODOT, UP, uh, I, I just got those drawings.  TW:  Oh, you have a legal;  you don't have the drawings?  EM:   Yeah, I don't have - TW:  The drawings'll probably be in the next few days.  EM:  & uh, we don't anticipate sending, at least UP, to the uh, appraisier & I, I don't know;  I'll, I'll talk to, to uh MODOT.  I, I don't think they're looking for money for property, altho I'll, I'll find out what their procedures are for uh, granting esmts, if they need an appraisal or not. 


Uuhhh, then BN RR, uh, that, that's coming up it looks like.  & uh, uh, MODOT again, I, I got a drawing on that & it's been 3 wks.  That's where we're at. 


2/18/03 Levee - Section   5 of  18


CLM:  Do you see anything in here right now that looks like there's a serious possiblity of a problem with it _ _ _ _ _ _?  EM:  No, I don't really, in, in the regular course of matters, uh don't see a problem.  It's always regrettable to have to go to court on problems when you can't reach an agreemt with 'em.   Uh, it cert, it, frankly, it looks to me like the shopping ctr, he didn't return my call today or Fri, so that's not a good sign.  Uh, - CLM:  Who is that?  EM:  That's uh, it's called Diamond Group, it's Tom Maurer is the -  CLM:  Tom Maurer's  _ _ _.  EM:  Yeah, uh - CLM:  It figures! 


EM:  Uh, let's see, Richard McGhee, I, I've, I've uh spoken with his lawyer.  Uh, & he indicates that once it's uh done, he's gonna get (her some carrots?) & uh, he, he doesn't think it's going to be, be a problem, uh, on that one.


Maureen Morris, I think you know, um, she's addressed this bd on nnuuumerous occasions. 


Uh, Cotton Co I, I think that that's going to be uh, no problems _ _ _.  CLM?:  Good!


DM:  So Tom Maurer keeps resisting.  How long would you think that'll take to get uh - EM:  Well, I'm gonna file suit this Friday.  So it's the, the regular course of things are that a hearing is set by the court;  the court sets cmsnrs & then the cmsnrs have a hearing &, & they do a pay-out.  Uh, they do a, they do a cmsnrs' award & then a, a  pay-out, & pay-in what's ordered by the judge.  It's something that can be accomplished within 60 to 90 days.


2/18/03 Levee - Section  6 of  18


DM:  Then can we get the right to that property even tho you haven't got the price set yet, __ get started? _ _ _ .  EM:  Well, we get the right to it as opposed to possession.  Uh, we actually are title owners on the date that it, the pay-in's made.  DM:  So you say it won't be holding us up then?  EM:  Yeah, I'm sorry.  DM:  Say it will be completed by the end of May, so _ _ _ ?  EM:  Oh, yeah.


BW:  Just addin' up numbers here, boy, you're dreamin' about havin' all the real estate acquired by May!  & this list has tripled since the last time I saw a list.  You have to have all this done, all these closures, all this purchased by the end of May so you can award a contract in August , & all the other things!  Boy, that's, that's a lot to get done!  CLM:  Yeah, but everything - BW:  I'd love to see it happen.  I -


CLM:  Everything, all these pieces of real estate are in various stages but they're all just about at the point where they're about to be finalized.  BW:  Yeah, well, you got one of 'em, you got 60 days to wait on;  that puts you uh within 30 days of, of having uh all the real estate purchased or less & if there's any problems where anything's  _ _ up.   EM:  Well, may, maybe you don't understand what I said.   When I said 60 days, we get title to it on pay-in;  it's, it's possession - BW:  What about - EM:  Well, possession's not required by the COE, uh -


BW:  What about the Maurer property?  EM:  The Maurer property is gonna, it's, it's, everything's been done; all that needs to be done is file, a suit needs to be filed;  that's it.  &, & the judge sets a hearing on filing of the suit.  ?:  Then you've got, you can go on his property?  EM:  Yeah.  BW:  Not, you'll, after your hearing?  (no response heard)  Like, I think you're really dreamin'.  I, I doubt, I'm gonna write this down & see if it really does happen;  but it, it, I hope it does!  You're goin' on too many, many, many, many yrs tryin' to get this thing done.


DM:  Well, last Fall, the date was 2/24 when everything had to be acquired.  Was it just because the levee's been moved or why, why do we keep sayin' sliding out?  EM:  Well, I, I guess there's a, a number (chuckle) of things, number of issues.  I mean there's, there's been design changes.  JZ:  Right, that's one reason for sure.  EM:  Uh, I, I mean we just, frankly, we had a design change here today that, that hasn't been (chuckle) a finalized design change. 


But each time a design change comes, your property uh, requiremts change.  We, we had the outfall issue down on River Dr that, that uh, gosh that uh, you know, it's just ONE OF THOSE THINGS!  You're, you're building a big project &, & uh, as design changes, uh so do your, your landings;  they constrict, they restrict.  MM:  (in the background) Why does the design change?  DM:  Jim, is the levee changing that much that back last Fall there was, everything was just hunk-dory, we were gonna get done by the middle of Feb, now today, we're hearin' the same story except, you know, May & then August & Dec & just 04, 05, 06.  EM:  I don't think anybody said 04, 05 or 06.  DM:  Well, I'm not hearin' it yet.  I'm sayin' that's, I'm gettin' - 'cause I moved in in '94, I was told 2 yrs, the levee's gonna be done & you just, it just keeps, the acquisition was gonna be Feb a yr ago & then this May, it's August & just -


EM:  Well, it couldn't have been Feb a yr ago because we didn't even have the money in the bank, Dan.  I mean you do the bond -  DM: Well - EM:  we did that in Oct.  We, we didn't have any money in the bank until Oct!  You have to have money to pay for all this.  JZ:  There are several factors, you know, agreemts with RR's & design changes. We're still in  the design process.  BW:  When is the levee gonna be designed?  JZ:  Pardon me.  BW:  When is the levee gonna be completely designed?  JZ:  We're supposed to be sending out the plans & specs for a review on 3/10.  BW:  & that's the whole ball of wax, that's everything? 


CLM:  That's for the contractor to look at to bid on building it.  JZ:  The only, the only question is relief wells, but that's probably a small question.  DM:  But there are changes made today.  So we're less than a month away from 3/10, so is it, how assured we that it won't go out into April, May, June for the release of this, so then the final word end up bein' Dec of this yr or even early next yr?  JZ:  Uh, I just, I talked to our, our engrs today.  They, they think we're on schedule.  BW:  Boy, it seems like every 6 months we add another yr or 2 to it.


CLM:  There've been a lot of things come up that dictate the changes _ _ _ _back -  JZ:  Uh, look, looking backwards, yeah, I think, you know, obviously we've been delayed to this point;  I have to agree.  CLM:  When you're designing projects like this in phases & gettin' near the end is probably _ _ _ _ _ _  to sign off on those.  Even if you have changes & the situation's pretty bad, you still find you want to make some changes in the design, optimize the project, reduce the cost.  There's so many go-wrongs, you have to change the design.  This project has had a lot of very unusual things happen to it.  


BW:  We're bouncin' on close to 15 yrs & I, I'm perfectly honest, I don't - CLM:  Not since the COE started const.  BW:  I would be very surprised if this is done by 2010, very surprised.  CLM:  Wanna put any money on that surprise?  BW: (chuckle) Yes, how much you want?  Yes.  ?: You name it, huh?  EM: I got 50 bucks right now.  CLM:  Make it easy on yourself.  BW  2010.   EM:  Yeah, oh yeah!  BW:  You're gonna beat 2010?  EM:  Guarantee it; I got 50 bucks that says so!   BW: (laughs heartily) I'll take ya up on it.


MM:  There've been 4 or 5 design changes at AL alone.  Why are there, why have there been that many design changes just at AL?  CLM:  Been several changes that we've all discussed.  JZ: We, we've discussed uh at the last, the last mtg, you know, why we changed the det, current det plan in AL.  We think we have the right plan & it's the way we're heading.  That's what our final plans & specs are gonna be showing. 


2/18/03 Levee - Section  7 of  18


DM:  What did we find about the wells today that we didn't know say a couple months ago?  Relief wells, is that - JZ:  Relief wells, um, I guess what it boils down to is, will there be some protests that was, that would hold up the big contract if we include the relief wells in the contract.  So we have to determine internally in the COE whether we think that's a problem.  If, if we think it's, if we think there's a good chance that the overall contract would be held up because of a potest due to the relief wells, then we should proceed without the relief wells in the  -  CLM:  You talkin' the audit protest?  ?: No.  DM:  Who, who would protest?  The owner of the well or DNR? 


JZ:  Other contractors.  CLM:  Other contractors.  In other words, they put out something that, in the contract plans & specs that get, that you think somebody might challenge & protest the award because they didn't get it, then that could delay, that kicks in a whole new system, that thing get kick back on the contract, the ultimate decision to you to protest to award the contract.  JZ:  Either, either the relief wells will be part of the Item 4B package because we think that there's, we don't think there's a big chance that it's gonna be a protest, or it'll be separated out because we DO think there'll be a pro, or we think there's a good chance there'll be a protest.  So we have to make that decision based on some (of the or other?) factors. 


CLM:  If there's a protest, that's stops everything till the protest - JZ:  It, it would delay, it would delay award for like 90 days.   TW: Jim, is that because there might be 2 different types of special contracts _ _ _ _ the uh why we_ _ _ _matter of protesting?  JZ:  It, it has to do with um, it really has to do with the 8A Program, uh Small Business, uh Disadvantage Business Program - DM:  Why are they do so many - JZ:  possibly protesting.   DM:  if they don't use enough small businesses, then that's their foundation for protest? 


JZ:  This is a particular uh, part of the Small Business Program is the, is the small disadvantaged business contractors &, & there have been some contractors who've done that work, relief well work, for us on another jobs, you know, the COE, St. Louis Dist.  So, so they have a history of doing that kind of work.  If they, you know, if they feel they can protest because it was included in a bigger contract & so they don't have an opportunity to get that work, then they could, they could pursue the protest thing. 


CLM:  _ _ on this subject, I think everyone should be made aware of things that this project has contributed significantly over the yrs, the St. L Dist _ _ _ some pretty high goals, small bus set asides & disadvantage contractor 'cause a lot of the work that we've done was _ _ done by _ _ contractor, some of which did really good work.  But when you get into the area of setting aside contracts, particularly in this category, sometimes you come up with a contractor that _ _ certified by SBA that uh may have a problem doin' the work.  They end up havin' to pay for it twice_ _ % of the _ _ _ - DM:  Plus the loss of time, right?  CLM:  Yeah, & considerable cost too.  DM:  So you're losing money & time because somebody else come in probably fixed what they did once to what they should've done in the first place? 


CLM:  We had this happen in Chesterfield Valley.  It happened, they had a small bus set aside for some survey work.  Surveying contractor delivered the work about 30 days late & then it was determined that the survey work was totally out in left field.  The dist COE had to award another contract. _ _ _ _ _ - JZ:  Well, we, we don't expect, we expect a quality job.  You, you know, either keepin' the stuff by an 8A Contractor, assures us that we have two quality jobs on (the needs parks?), Items 3A & 3B, uh, & so - CLM:  If it's not competed you _ always get a good price.  We're, we're tryin' to stay under that $35 Million federal ceiling, not having to go back for approvals _ _ _ _ _ _ Congress _ _ _do that if we have to. 


2/18/03 Levee - Section  8 of  18


DM:  & has the levee changed behind the Diamond, Meramec Valley Diamond Group area?  'cause that's one thing that worries me the most is that, because there's so many tenants in there that that's gonna - JZ:  No, it hasn't changed in that area.  It's basically the same plan we've had all along.  It's the levee - DM:  Shouldn't we already have their land then?  JZ:  Pardon me.  DM:  Since it hasn't changed there, shouldn't we already have the land behind Meramec so that we can - EM:  Well, Dan, come on!  You've been, we've gone over this before!  There's a process, okay?  DM: Right.  EM: #1, you've got to have both the lands, esmts & R'sOW surveyed & platted;  then it has to be appraisssed;  then you have to put it in examination so you know what interests are out there with it.  I just got the Meramec Plaza uh, survey done, or not the survey, title exam uh, the 1st of Feb.


DM:  Well, I don't know if anybody else remembers the mtg in Oct, we said all the land's gonna be purchased by 2/24, so at least the things that haven't changed, we should've had by 2/24.  But they're, seems like they're just as far away from us now as they were back in Oct to Feb timeframe.  So I mean that's - BW:  How many yrs does it take to - DM: why we've gone over it before 'cause  - BW:  Has that levee changed?  DM: we don't seem to be be any closer.  BW:  Has that levee behind the shpg ctr changed at all?  DM:  No, that's what I just asked.


 BW: It hasn't changed.  How many yrs does it take to acquire this property?  JZ:  Umm, - BW:  I mean literally, yrs, yrs.  JZ:  I'm just tryin' to go back to your question.  I think you know probably some, some parts of, of the uh, sewage, sewer plan, storm ditch plan has been, has been you know, finalized.  I mean brought to, to the final level of detail in, in the last few months.  &, & then we've talked, you know, I think the landowner wanted to discusss you know, exactly what would be done.  So you know, we talked to him about exactly what would be done with the storm sewers in this, along the back of the bldg, but it's something that it's simple -  ?: _ _ _  -  JZ:  But in general, you know the plan really hasn't changed, it's just that we've got to the point, the levee is still in the same place, the, the flood walls _ _ _, but the details of you know, the final plans & specs, we get to that final level of detail, we're, we're just getting to that right now.  Then we'll need to talk to _ _.


EM:  &, & the survey &, & the, the acquisition plat the 7th of Sept.  JZ:  I guess conceiveably, if, if, if the landowner had been, say cooperative, you know, it, maybe it would've been purchased by now;  but -  EM: We'd have it.  JZ:  But, uh, that's just not the way it's gone.   BW:  Well, no attempt was made yrs ago.  EM:  WHAT DO YOU MEAN NO ATTEMPT WAS MADE?  MAN, we, we bought just about all the land other than a temp cost esmt & what are we talking about a tenth of an acre, from this guy back in 1992.  So we, we, we bought well over 2 acres from this guy;  so don't say, you know, no attempt was made!  We're talking about a little speck of land here that's, that's mainly a temp const esmt ta, ta build a uh, a storm drain on the guy's land.  That's all we're talking about is running - ?: For his sewers?  EM: Yeah. 


DM:  Well, if we don't own this little speck of land 6/1, then everything moves out further.  EM:  We don't have to own it;  we're not trying to buy it, we're just getting a temp const esmt by & large on it.  DM:  So that's all we need from Maurer, is a temp esmt?  EM:  & a, & a, & a little, little, permanent esmt where the eyewall & the support ties into the rear of his wall;  it's less than a tenth of an acre.  MM:  What are his objections?  EM:  I, I have no, I, I don't know.  I, I, I uh, I think it's, uh, boils down to money, mostly. 


2/18/03 Levee - Section  9 of  18


BW:  It was last yr or some time, I think there were 6 or 8 properties -  all we had to have, & we were done;  that was it;  no problem!  Now, about 3 times the list, here.  It just grows expotentially every month.  I'm, I'm very anxious to have, see the levee.  I, you know, I've been thru many floods &, & uh to be honest, I don't know whether I'm gonna stay here to go thru another 10 yrs of floods. 


CLM: Stay here long enough to pay off your bet.  (JW laughs heartily)  BW:  You can't pay it off with your, with your flood insurance.  CLM:  You know I detect a ruse to get out from under that bet right now.  (JW still laughing.)  BW:  Hey, I wish I could put up more money so there was an incentive to get this levee done.  CLM:  I'm gonna talk with your doctor;  tell him to keep an eye on you.  (JW laughs again.)  You're goin' way out to get out of payin' off that bill.  I - BW:  Hey, I'll put up whatever's, I'll put up whatever money it's gonna take to get this people in the center to get it done. 


JKB: You're lookin' ever since '83, this levee started work.  BW: I'm well aware of that.  EM:  & the levee didn't start to work in '83.  Const started in '93.  JKB:  The const did but I think the Mayor Hedrick got this goin' back when he was in that many yrs ago.  Now he -


2/18/03 Levee - Section  10 of  18


CLM:  Well, what actually happened back in then was, Congress passed a law that deauthorized the Meramec Basin Project & said the COE had authority to study flood protection problems in the Lower Meramec to a total cost of not more than $20 Million & you couldn't use any dam to solve any problems.  That just gave the COE the authority to look at things.  Then they had to get the money from the Congress just to look at the thing  -  looked at Pacific & Arnold, various areas, St. Louis County, approached 'em about Flood Control Warning Plan, & St. Louis County wouldn't be the local sponsor for it.  A couple of areas that the COE could've messed up, couldn't get a local sponsor.  After several yrs, completed the studies, looking for a local sponsor, VP was the only one that said, 'we'll be the local sponsor'.  Couple yrs passed before anybody even knew there COULD BE a project in VP after '83.


I know it seems like it's been goin' a long time.  & uh, everyday uh, activities, it has been a long time, but as far as the time it takes to build & put a water resource project together, all the checks & balances _ _ _ a lot of different special interests, you name a _ _ _ the fact that Congress has to appropriate the money every yr, you can't really know how much you're gonna get done till you get the money.  For example, right now, the Dist doesn't know how much money it's supposed to get for the FY 2003, & the yr just started last Oct 1st.  It's just a lot of (someone coughs) to jump into that uh -


BW:  What other flood project has taken longer?  CLM:  Well, where you wanna start?  Have you read the paper about the New Madrid problem down in SE MO?   We were, we were arguing about when we were gonna start bldg that when I was the Chief Engr's office in 1969.  ColWms:  You don't want that stink on ya.  CLM: That's mental statistics, so he don't  -  EM :  I, personally, am still waiting for the Meramec Dam in Sullivan.  BW:  You're in lala land.  CLM:  I blew that one so you can blame me on that one. 


2/18/03 Levee - Section  11 of  18


ColWms:  I, I don't think you'll have -  if everybody at this table in this room, um, try to tell you that this project hasn't taken longer than it probably should have.  CLM:  It took so long for good reasons.  ColWms:  Anything that could've happened, has happened.  CLM:  Yeah.  ColWms:  on this project.  & I, you know, from what I've seen of it in the last 8 months that I've been here,  aannything that could've happened, happened.  Uh, I will tell ya I think we're very, very close to sealing this deal & probably this is, you know the real estate acquisition is probably the last little piece of that. 


& any time you get down to the 9th inning, you know, you start managing things a little bit differently.  & hopefully, & I think we doin' about every other wk, we're goin' down a list, your folks, our folks, everybody, just to make sure that we're making the needed progress we need.  Uh, but, I, I don't think anybody would say it, this hadn't taken a lot longer than we would've expected, whether it was 83 or whether it was 93 or whatever, whenever this thing was just a dream in somebody's mind.  & it's taken longer than we would've thought it should've taken.  BW: I actually agree.  ColWms:  But I, I really think, & if nothin' else, I'm here to tell ya that, that this has our undivided attention.   & it's, it's got the full weight of our office & our division office & we're gonna do everything we can, to do what we need to do to bring this to fruition, by whatever that date was, um, this yr.  'cause we are, we are so close & I will tell ya, I share your frustration;  I haven't lived your frustration, but I share your frustration at, at what has gone on.  I'm here to tell ya that we're not, we're not gonna let you down!


BW:  Is there any incentive to get it done?  There's absolutely no incentive to get it done for the - ?: In whose mind?  ColWms:  Yeah, I'd say there's a huge incentive.  I drove it today;  there's the incentive.  All those homes & business that are right now, unprotected;  that's the incentive.  BW:  Oh, I'm one of 'em!  ColWms:  Yeah!  Is there an incentive for me, personally, or the St. L Dist?  It, well, I mean if it floods tomorrow, I mean is there an incentive for us to - just the incentive for doin' what's right!  BW:  I, I wish, that were, true.


ColWms:  Ah, I think it is.  Is it as, has everything been as smooth as it should've been?  I'm here, I'm here to tell ya, probably not.  Uh, have a lot of things happened on this project that no one could've foreseen?  Absolutely!  But I think, I think we're in the 9th inning now;  we're very, very close & we're tryin' to manage it as best we can.  & I will just tell ya, as, as we proceed down this path, if you think that somethin' is not happenin' as quickly as it needs to happen, then you've got my card already;  you call me & say, 'hey, I think you need to do this'.  & I will tell you that we will do, we will call you & tell you the same thing;  if we need some help to keep both of us on this timeline that we worked out.  You know I think most of you guys saw the last mtg or the mtg before, kind of where we want to go with the timelines. 


2/18/03 Levee - Section 12 of  18


DM:  Well, I don't know if it was just when you came on, Colonel, but last August I want to say, I need to check my notes, everything was gonna be acquired by 2/24, the contract awarded May & about a month later, all of sudden now 3 months.  Now I don't know how many previous closure dates there were where it's gonna be acquired here & start - CLM:  Let's take that - DM: the contract - CLM:  Let's take that, the plans right then.  The design was probably changed then.  You can't go ahead & say, well, since we said we're gonna close the real estate, build the project that we know we're not gonna build.  You can't do that, you changed the design.  You have to go back & take a look at what other changes were made.  You need different real estate for every one of the changes.  I thought you were aware of that!!! 


DM:  Well, what is - BW?  Design you're in  -  DM:  what's the chicken & the egg here?  Is it we're gonna put the levee here, or what land are we gonna buy & then put the levee where we buy the land?  EM:  Well, let me give you an example!  DM:  Alright.  EM:  Whenever you're talking about, I don't know what,  what date this 2/24 came up, but - DM: Wasn't there an original date - BW:  Yes, there was, 2/24. 


EM:  Richard McGheee, here's one, #6 Arnold Dr, had a contract to purchase the real estate interests necessary for that property;  had already condemned it;  we had a Cmsnrs' Hearing set on it;  then it changes.  Well, it's too late then to go back & have a new hearing before the judge to explain the new ROW & amend the pleadings because then you have to do it with, you know, all 7 ofther people.  So that's, that's one of 'em, for instance;  you gotta step back & reload when that happens. 


DM:  You say you don't remember a 2/24 date?  EM:  I don't, I don't remember when the 2/24 date was set & - DM:  Ok, 'cause it seemed like last Aug or Sept.  ?:  November -  EM:  You know, I don't, - JZ:  There was a date - DM:  There was a date of 2/24 - EM:  Yeah, you're right. 


DM:  Now I realize things change, but what, what is drivin' -  I don't know if it's the land acquisition.  Is the levee the primary thing & then once we know where the levee's going - EM:  Yeah.  DM:  Is that when we buy the land?   EM:  Yeah.  DM:  Or do we say, 'we're not gonna be able to buy this land, so we're gonna have to -


JZ:  The - CLM:  That ca, the - JZ:  levee - CLM: latter case could happen.  In this case - JZ:  The design - CLM: the design changed for eng'g reasons.  DM:  I mean the paramount thing is the design of the levee, right?  JZ:  The levee design changed the real e, changed, & that changed the real estate requiremt.  We provided actually a new, you know, ROW requiremts to the city.  I believe it was in Dec.  I, I've checked it.  I checked the date on that & basically, they have, that's one thing that they have to do, I mean you, the city, has to do to meet our new design requiremts.  EM: When that happens, we got to start all over!  I mean, apprraaisals, suurrveys, uhh, plats. 


CLM: To answer your question  -  EM:  & approval.  CLM:  & generally, it's the design is what makes it _ _ _ _ _ - BW:  When is the designing changes gonna end? -  CLM:  works, then you have to (waive or raise?) the questions.  DM:  Is it that somebody reviews it & finds, wait a minute, you said this much water's comin' in, it's gonna be that much or -


JZ: We, we talked about the using it for that, you know, that was the business of the written, the design earlier did not have a det area in AL.  DM:  Ok, I remember you sayin' that.  JZ:  There was a pipe that went to Fishpot Creek under the RR, & anann a new analysis by our en, hydraulic engr determined that there's really not enough storage in that Fishpot Det area & water's gonna back into that pipe & fill AL to uh, to a unacceptable level;  it's not really gonna work right.  So we were looking at 3 options in that pipe.  We were looking at the possibility of a, of a pump sta that would be put in place along Hiway 141 or the, the det area.  The det area was by far the best plan in terms of cost & in terms of future operation & maintenance.  So that's the plan we want.  


Brought this out in the last mtg or the mtg before here at the cmsn.  & that's why there was a design change & that's why there's a delay.  I mean that's one of the areas, there's other reasons for the delay besides that, but that's definitely one of the reasons.


EM:  There, there were some hydrological studies done on the uh other end, round, round  the Cotton Co. They indicated that more storm water was going to be ponding, I think due in at least some parts to the expansion of Hiway 141 that was not contemplated.  Uh, where, where storm water has to be ponding, you gotta get more area & we, weets, we'd gotten the area back in '99 that was designed for that, that particular design there, but -


DM:  You're saying 141 wasn't accounted for in all this even tho we knew they were gonna build it?  EM:  That's correct.  BW: Doesn't sound right.  EM:  Uh, in, in, in some degree, but uh, no one knew it was going to be uh, 6 lanes I guess or whatever it was.  But that, that needed a new hydrological study &, & - CLM:  Wasn't sure what the alignmt was.  EM:  Yeah. 


DM:  I guess the...(exchange tapes)...DM:  Big Bend, but I didn't realize the address had changed down here.  JW:  I would think the mayor could birddog this from here on out, now that we're this close.  I hate to put the weight on the mayor, but - BW:  I wish there was one person to go to.  JW: uh I would think he could do a dandy - DM:  You go design my stuff at Boeing;  I'll be happy to do this here.  JW:  I mean just call Eric every day (chuckle).  That's why you get the big money.  DM:  Ok, Dave, sorry, didn't mean to take over.  Go ahead.  DC:  That's ok.  It's your __, not mine.  DM:  Now it's your turn.  (they chuckle)


2/18/03 Levee - Section  13 of  18


DC:  Uh, I will say uh, item on the (Phase) 4A, we talked to a uh, contractor last wk about clearing.  & he decided not to bid on the clearing.  So we're goin' back to the original uh, prime contractor, & he's supposed to meet with Len Martin today & go over & get it surveyed.  Should have a surveyor in there.  DM:  Tree clearing that you had the mtg with in Dec?  DC:  Right.  DM:  That group _ _ _ _ _ _ _?   DC:  No, that group, they're the prime contractor, but they weren't getting a subcontractor to do it from St. Louis, & - JZ:  They looked into that.  DC: You know, to bid on it.  JZ:  To be more exact, I think prime, considering another sub.  DC: Right.  JZ:  But now, they're sticking with their loophole.  DC:  They're gonna with the prime - JZ: That's what I understand from Mike Feldmann.  


DM:  They realize it's only about 5.5 wks till that magic 4/1 & the bat trees?  JZ:  Right.  DC:  Well, the way the contract reads, all we gotta do is have all the trees down.  DS:  The bats are back.  DC: & the fella that we were with - DM: _ _city could've magically went out there & knocked 'em all down, I wonder - DC:  No, no.  DM:  who's gonna scream.  DC:  You can't do that, but uh, you uh, you have to realize it doesn't take these guys long to pull trees, if you see what they did in the g/p.


It'll take these guys, probably when they get in all their equipmt, the guy said that day when we were down there, he could mow & start this wk.  Probably by the end of the wk or middle of next wk, he'd of had all the trees on the ground as long as the trees in the selective uh, tear-down are the only thing because he'd have to get with the COE & go thru there & make sure the trees that he's knockin' down & gettin' on the ground.  There's nothin' about the burning.  We can burn until Dec of 2003 if you have to, if there's, whatever is done. 


We have to have the bat trees on the ground & it doesn't take, if you look, in 3 days, we cleared the whole uh g/p property which was a jungle.  We, & then they came back in & burned & piled it all up.  & once these fellas get in there with this, with this equipmt, uh they pull them trees out of the ground & just, & push 'em down.  I mean there's no trees actually to be knocked down in the g/p & uh, like the boss said, it's uh, if he goes in & knocks all the big trees down & gets 'em all on the ground, uh the little trees arent' really the problem.  It's all the bigger trees & not the brush or anything, but they'll have it all down.  He said he could probably do it in 10 days, he'd have that thing all on the ground. 


JW:  Who's that?  JZ&DC?:  Uh, Spirus.  DC:  I can't remember the fella's name.  He's from over uh in South County - JZ:  Oh, you mean the new contractor?  DC:  The new contractor.  Yeah, the subcontractor didn't come.  JZ?:  You got your notes in here.  DC:  But, uh, - JW:  Is it normal that the COE would leave a contract open ended like that, that uh anybody could be a low bidder than to sub it out?  That's not _ _ good business practice.  JZ:  No, no.  We have a, we have a prime contractor under contract.  They've gotta get the job done by the terms of the contract.  DC:  Right.  JW:  But they can sub it to anybody? 


JZ:  They had plans, yeah, they could sub it out.  BW: They can do anything they want to do, long as they perform the __ contract.  DC:  They can sub it out.  I mean that's like, they had a contract with uh, whatchamacalit.  JW:  Wasn't that a Mississippi, or Texas?  DC:  It's out of Texas.  JW:  I just thought that was strange.  That co didn't even have a person go walk thru there, did they?  Didn't they bid that just by - JZ:  No, I don't - DC:  I really don't know.  JW:  I looked at that.  There wasn't nobody from that co even that looked at this job.  They bid that over whatever!  Telephone, whatever, but you know.


DC:  I guess they looked at the specs & the drawings & everything, but I don't know.  I don't know how they bid on it.  I mean we had about 13 or 14 bidders on that & they was the low person.  I mean there was some lows & some went over, but I really don't know.  JW:  Right.  I guess long as they get it done in their timeframe, that's all that counts.  DC:  Supposedly the guy's supposed to start mobling here just what Len told me this morning.  He's supposed to mow down there this wk.  He's already go a piece of equipmt down there, but I talked to him on the phone back in, oh I guess it was Jan, & he was gonna mow here, but he was bringin' equipmt in uh, I don't know, several pieces of equipmt in.  Uh, I don't know what happened to that, but he never did mow _ _ _. 


I think once they get started on it, they'll knock it down.  You see what they did in the g/p.  I'm amazed at the g/p when they did that & they called McGruder in here & they had it down.  I mean those guys were doin' it.  JW:  All you gotta do is push it in piles.  Anybody can go in there & push, make messes.  DC:  Oh, yeah.  Then you gotta put it in the, yeah, & then they gotta get the burn pits & everything like that & get it goin'.  BW:  Well, they had an incentive;  they got a child killed.  Maybe if another child got killed down there - DC:  Let's not talk about that.  BW:  It might help it along a little bit harder.  DC:  We don't want an incentive that way.


2/18/03 Levee - Section 14 of  18


BW:  Well then, let's get the levee done!    DC:  Well, the only thing I can tell ya, is you businessmen, you get with all these business people in VP & have 'em all get degreade & then all these uh residents that don't want to sell you their property or give it to ya, or whatever, & you can build the levee. 


We built 3A & 3B over here.  We had all these property owners that were very, very, very uh, not reluctant to give us their ground, or was glad to get it & give it to us, that we didn't have any problems at all.  For just a little bit of money, we got a big piece of property from Mr. Wallace down here for hardly anything.  We did a job for him that cost about maybe $1500 & we did it & he give us a piece of property.  We haven't had that cooperation on 4B.  BW:  Valley Material was no problem at all.


DM:  Well, Dave, I'm not knockin' at all the work _ _ _ _ _ up to now, but if there is a thorn out there next wk, don't tell me it's a rosebush.  I mean if, like last Fall, we were gonna get that property behind Maurer & that's one, from the way Eric described it, I was very nervous over because each of the tenants has to be notified as well.  So if there's a problem, we can all work together, identify the problems, see what we can do to help.  But on the other hand, if, you know, we're bein' told everything's just movin' smooth & we find next wk there's a giant buzzsaw in our path, which maybe something we could try to do that we didn't then, 'cause that's  -  I'm not being critical, I'm just, my frustration's coming thru & I apologize if it sounds like I'm bein' a whatever.  DC:  I think most people here are frustrated because the fact is that it doesn't keep movin' along. 


DM:  Again, I say that date, 2/24, was set & if we meet this May, I'll be happy & I hope whatever Bob there, load his money & bring down, _ _ _ _ _ .  (they laugh)  CLM:  I won't let him forget.   DM: When the levee gets done, I'll be standin' up there with the biggest  -  JW:  You'll be out there beatin' on his door, won't ya!  CLM:  We'll go out to dinner.  


2/18/03 Levee - Section 15 of  18


CLM:  City cost share for the project.  DC:  Uh yeah, get to that.  JZ:  That, that was disgusting.  EM:  I'll hold it for ya. (some chuckle)  CLM:  Changes.  JZ:  Why it's smog, but there's no change to the cost estimate.  Um, it was already provided to the city back in Jan.  CLM:  Fed funding, now that -  


JZ:  Go down to the next item, fed funding, fed & sponsor funding for 2003 & 2004.  Um, I mentioned last month that, that based on this new cost estimate, which we have recomputed, sponsor cash contribution, contribution requiremts, they said that they have to, sponsor has to give it to us  FY 03 & that we have $959,000, 2 months of sponsor money, & uh - JW:  We take cash, Jim.  JZ:  A check is in the mail.  (JW & others laugh)  ?:  _ _ _ _ - ?: _ _ _  - JZ:  We have uh, provided, in the process of providing, a check to the City of seven, $678,000 & there's $281,000 going into the escrow acct that hasn't been taken out.  So that's, your total is uh the 959 & that's being taken care of. 


JW:  Jim, how much is really needed if you just estimate, or you can't give me exact dollars to complete the 4B contract const?  Just a estimate, is there an ideal figure, number?  JZ:  Uh, there's a, there's an estimate.  I think it's about 11.5, roughly;  I don't have the number right in front of me. JW:  Right.  TW: That's the const, bids & _ _ like that - JW:  Right. - JZ:  That's, that's an estimate of the const.  JW:  Ok, tku.


DM:  Jim, how much, you said the check was 678,000., that's what we're uh, was there another, interest or is that - JZ:  That's, that's, then there's money that's still in the escrow acct that the city put in there;  281,000 that we've never removed from escrow acct, so we don't - DM:  So there's 678,000 coming now & another 281,000 - JZ:  Already, it's already the city's money in the escrow acct.  DM:  Ok.  JZ:  The city's drawing interest on it.  We don't plan to take it out.  DM:  So that's - JZ:  This will all be documenteded to you in a letter so, so there won't be any doubt about what's happening. 


CLM:  Before we give 'em, give them the good news.  JZ:  But the uh,  -  JW:  Jim, I'm sure you'll get it back in the end (& he laughs).  JZ:  Well, I mean if we don't get another contribution required (JW laughing)...const effort goin'.  JW:  We're just playin' handsies back & forth a yr.  JZ:  We have to do everything by FY, on a FY basis, so next FY we'll be askin' for money. 


2/18/03 Levee - Section 16 of  18


CLM:  Well, speaking of FY - JZ:  Already in it now.  CLM:  Congress has finally passed (mommy's?) approps bill _ _ gov't _ _ _ _ _ _  _ _ _  for FY 2003, but _ _ _ _  said that last he heard today, the President signed it.  & we won't know for sure, the COE won't know for sure, (when or whether?) the money is given 2003 _ _ _ _ _ _  - DM:  & they don't release the numbers until he signs it?  In that case, there's still some behind-the-scenes uh trading or something? 


CLM: Well, I think that the numbers are in the bill.  I've not been able to find out what, what the number was.  We had one number from the Senate & the best I can determine, the Senate's version is 5.2 Million, which was basically the COE's capability for FY 2003 started, & they made that number up by 2002, (Dr. Callaway?) _ _ _ _. 


Of course things change during the yr.  DM:  Sayin' it could be less, even the 5.2.  CLM:  _ _ _ a handle of what is in the House version because they kind of keep that a close secret.  D_ you _ _ secretary_ _, Jim?   JZ?:  I have no idea.  ?:  It should.  CLM:  But anyway - ColWms:  It doesn't change from what went, if the President signs what was sent to him.  We're in good shape there.  CLM:  Oh yeah, no doubt about that!


2004, then it gets to be really complicated.  The COE's _ _ because the President's budget request 2004 (you can amend it?).  The COE can't really give us approved capability of what we could use _ _ _ _ till you know whether _ _ Million _ _ _ _ _ _ till they get approval.  & they can't do that until they know for sure how much they're getting for 2003 'cause they're gonna have to add, they're gonna have to take what they get in 2003 & apply it toward _ _ _ _ _ _ , plus the 2 Million they get for 2004 next _ _ _Oct 1st.  So until the COE gets all that straightened out, they can't _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _you can't find out from the COE what _ _ _ _more than 2 Million from the President last yr, is not as much as they could use, _ _ _ _ed tho, then we'll know what _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ contribution _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.  Chances are right now, that if we get the amt we think we're gettin' for 2003, the District is, probably the COE's (losin' or leavin') that amt ($Million in the bank?) we've accumulated for 200(4?). 


DM:  & if we don't - (sue 'em or assume?)  it's 5.2 Million & it's not all spent this yr, does it go back into the pot & reapply?  We can't carry over - CLM:  No, the, the COE can carry over money - DM: That's good.  CLM:  in this category __ carry over. JZ ?:  Once it's appropriated.  CLM:  It's an unusual category _ _ _ _the COE _ _. 


TW:  The uh 221 road projects work that way  _ _ where once the project's appropriated, they can't take money away from contractor that hasn't finished.  So I, I would think that would work the same.  CLM:  But when you get into the nitty gritty sometimes,  -  JZ?:  I don't think the competition - JZ:  We don't know what the money's gonna be & I don't think the decision's been made as to what would happen if we had excess money.  BW:  _ _ _ we have excess money!  (JW & ? chuckle)  JZ:  Pardon me.  BW:  Dream of excess money.  DM: _ _ _ _.  JW:  That's our new cmty ctr go in there.  CLM:  I think the bottom line is that the way the funding situation looks like now, we're gonna be in good shape in 2004.  JW:  _ _ _ _ recreation _ _ _ _ _ portioned in _ _ _ _ _ _ - CLM: _ _Congress _ _ _ demonstration_ _ _ _ _ .


Jim Mitas:  Now with the contract that you have, you want to let a contract in August, you have a contract __ higher const _ _ _  portion should have the money _ _.   However, Jim, do you want this contract in 2 pieces _ _ _.  JZ:  Every, every contract has what they call a continuing (module?), _ _ we've only got this much money for the current yr &, but we (don't?) know for sure if we're gonna get the money for the following FY & then the following FY after that, so, but _ _ _ _.  ?: _ _ _ _ _ _ - JZ?:  I think __ could _ _ _ _ _ _.  CLM:  If you get in trouble, Jim, you just say, "Hey, Jim, we need to take care of a problem.  DM:  Whip out the gold card & have at it!  


ColWms:  Jim's boss has been very good to us so far.  JW:  You might be collectin' that $50 if the President might help you out.  ColWms:  He's been very good to us.  (they laugh)  CLM:  I don't mind goin' to Europe _ _ _never _ _ _ _ _  _ _tho there have been yrs when the President's budget _ _.  JW:  City's, city's had to pinch a few pennies to get your money tho.  We've suffered (he laughs).  CLM:  Tell 'em to come up.  But we've had various problems _ _ _ _ _very high priority (funding?).  (mumblings)  BW?: _ _ _ _ _.  JW: (laughing) Make that motion.  BW: 5 more mins.


2/18/03 Levee - Section 17 of  18


DC:  I've got one other.  Maureen, you want to talk on the levee.  MM:  Um, can I get a, that extra copy of Tom Weis' hand-out?  DC: Uh, if he has, uh, I can give you a copy of of it.  Tom, would you run another copy of it.  MM:  He said he made an extra copy.  DC:  I gave it to Mr. uh Stuart.  MM: Oh.   ColWms?:  Did you get a copy?  You have a copy.  ?: _ _ _ a copy.  (ColWms hands me his copy.)  MM: Tku very much. 


Um, & I wanted to ask, before you decided to make my property the det pond, um you were talking about boring underneath the RR tracks to put a pipe to the Fishpot det pond.  Um, did you ever consider, you know that, that bridge that goes across Fishpot Creek for the UP RR tracks, that foundation wall of that bridge, did you ever consider putting a pipe on that wall? 


EM:  You know I'm, I'm not any uh one's lawyer other than the city, but let, let me, prefacing that, let me say, um, we are at, we have been & will continue to be involved in litigation __.  Uh, someone with the COE is  going to, to be expected to testify uh, at a hearing before a judge as to the levee alignmt.  Quite obviously, they are trying to redesign the levee.  They tried to in a, in a prior hearing.  It may be we want to uh, use judgemt in, in answering questions &, & at least my recommendation to the bd would be, uh, uh, or, or members of, of this cmsn, uh, to refrain from conversations regarding the levee to Mrs. Morris at this point. 


CLM:  I think that the COE, knowing that there is litigation pending, probably wants the same way.  DM:  Wouldn't it be public knowledge if the COE was gonna go this way & that way since public knowledge is payin' for _ _ - CLM:  But she's asking why doesn't the COE go a different way.  MM:  I'm asking about the design of the levee. 


RS:  Well, that's just more time, more money, more yrs down the rd & we just don't need any problem.  MM:  Well, you - RS:  I understand - MM: don't know for - RS:  you got some property down there that you need to be paid for & compensated for.  But you're holdin' the levee up for yourself & the plaza & thems down there. 


CLM:  I don't think that this is the appropriate forum for this type of _ _ _ _ _  - MM:  Well, I don't think the numbers were clear on the cost comparisons.  CLM:  Maureen, we already said  -  MM:  & nobody seems to want to ask for details.  


RS:  That's not what I'm sayin'.  What I'm sayin' is you're askin' to try to go a different route.  They just drew plans up to go this route, now you're askin' to draw plans up to go with your route  -  MM:  I'm not asking you to draw plans up.  I'm asking had you ever considered puttin a pipe thru that bridge foundation instead of boring under the tracks.  RS:  I'm sure they've looked at it.  They're engrs & they've looked at it. 


CLM:  I would suggest that'd be a good question for your atty to ask in court. MM:  Ok. 


2/18/03 Levee - Section 18 of  18


Um, my property was condemned on Oct 31st & it was in a lawsuit with Ed Harrawood's property & LaVonne Brown's property, or Venita Brown's property, all the property on the south side of Arnold's Dr, & Ed Harrawood's property, #7, on the north side & also my property & Mike McGhee's on the north side. 


Now my atty won a Writ of Prohibition for my property.  EM could've gone right ahead with Ed Harrawood's properties & Venita Brown's property.  You could've had all those properties I believe by now because, but somehow the cmsnrs that were supposed to be there at AL to make an award, on Dec 3rd I believe it was, were somehow cancelled.  So, (I can't decipher the tape here, but as I remember, I said that maybe someone needs to look into that.), but you could've had a lot of property. 


RS: Well, what you're, what you're (upset our engrs?) is that (pause)  MM:  I'm saying that you probably couldn've had all the properties on the south side of Arnold Dr.  RS:  Now you're concerned with the levee bein' done, now -  MM:  I just  - RS:  you're - MM:  want the - RS:  property  -  MM:  levee cmsn to be aware of things that are going on. 


JW:  I move to adjourn.  ?: _ _ _ _.  DC: Next levee mtg will be 3/17/03 at 5:00, same place.  CLM:  St. Patrick's Day.  (various miscellaneous cmts)  DC:  Levee mtg's adjourned.