MOPR'S 4/21/03 VP LEVEE CMSN MTG MINS
Notes: Just before the mtg started, I noted these cmts by EM to those present: in doing the burn pit east of Pharoah, they expected 8 ft of clay before hitting the sandy bottom, but there was only 1 ft of clay; & explorations were outside the perimeter of the borrow area. > Mtg adjourned at about 6:05 pm.
8/11/05 Noteworthy Revisions: Format, punctuation, bold emphasis & now obsessively deciphered - 1) Sec 10, ?: That area is bought! 2) Sec 13, CLM: (Enacted or inactive?) for our bonus. 3) Sec 13, CLM: Should've known it made no difference. 4) Sec 15, Nicewater is now Niswonger. 5) Sec 17, CLM: It's a crap shoot really for the homeowner because - 6) Sec 17, EM?: I don't think u can tell. 7) Sec 19 CLM in bkgd - JZ: what we did as far as - CLM: (Cover?) - JZ: getting the - CLM: this yr. JZ: money back & so forth.
Present: DM, BW, DS, JKB, CLM, EM, James Probert, JZ, BL, JH, TW, JW.
Also Present: VP citizen & business owner, Vivian Blackman; Renee Kirkiewicz, 15th Dist Dir to State Senator Michael Gibbons; Andy McCord of DG Purdy; & Jim Mitas of Cgsm Akin's office. Since DC was absent, DM presided. JW & TW arrived soon after DM listed those present.
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 1 of 19
...(DM announces those present.) DM: Call this to order, Pledge of Allegiance, please. (Pledge of Allegiance) Anything to add to the agenda? Guess we're just going over either funding, er fed funding or the cost city; how many properties we bought; & the status of the props we're working on. Can I have a motion to approve the agenda? DS: So moved. ?: 2nd. DM: All in favor? (some, possibly all aye) Ok.
I don't see the mins here so I guess we'll wait for - DC's not in here obviously, so we'll just go over those next time. Item 4B update -
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 2 of 19
JZ: Yeah, I can give u some update; uh re the tree clearing, the contract that we have, uno _ all the trees are down, we have one burn pit op'g & they're planning to put a 2nd burn pit in. & I guess things are goin' a little bit slow as far as burning trees are concerned with wet weather & so forth; but uh the plan is that things'll pick up quite a bit as soon as they get the 2nd burn pit going & the weather gets a little drier.
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 3 of 19
Uh main thing is our const contract for Item 4B, the, the, the big const contract that we have coming up. uh we had a mtg, a, a P&S review mtg on 4/1 in the COE ofc (Ref: 4/1/03 VCOE/LEV mtg - attempted mins). & uh maybe u recall that we had sent out these P&S & asked for cmts from a lot of people within the COE & also other agencies & the city. & uh people got onto the internet & gave cmts thru a new system called Dr Checks which turned out to be, I think, very, very helpful as far as making cmts &, & people organizing uh uno the responses to those cmts & the changes to the P&S.
But anyway at, at this mtg uh - which we call our Vitability, our VCOE mtg which is vitability, constructability, operability & env'l review - uh Mayor DM was, was in attendance & DC was there from the city. Uhm Scott Waltrip was there from MDNR (Ref Docs, 5/3/01 EM letter to Waltrip) out of Jefferson City in the solid waste uh program. Um they went, we went thru all the, all the cmts that had been brought in.
I guess u were there till something like 2:00, weren't u, Mayor? DM: About 2:00, yes. JZ: & then we continued uh after that & looked at some more drawing, cmts on the drawings. & anyway, uh we're in the process right now. The team is of uh of uhm revising these P&S based on the cmts, ok.
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 4 of 19
& one of the things that MDNR mentioned at, at this uh at this mtg was that they pointed out that we need to prepare a Storm Water Pollution Prevention Plan that's associated with the g/p material & this material uh in the uh Megus Beauty Products (ref PCO's via I&A Page) uh property. It's like a gypsum-type material that was left over from their cotton processing. Anyway, the COE has prepared, I have with my team has prepared a Storm Water Pollution Prevention Plan. Uh it's, right now, it's in the front office with a fwd'g letter, uh hasn't been signed yet, but should be signed in the next day or so, to go to MDNR; uh actually 2 ofcs of MDNR, Water Quality & storm, uh & the uh Solid Waste; & then a copy to the StL Cnty Health Dept; a copy I've got, uh going to u, Eric, to uh get, so the city has uh -
CLM: Jim, is that a new term to apply to what they used to call the Storm Water Run-off Plan? JZ: Uhm, I 'd say that's, that's probably about what it is. I mean it has to be - it's probably specific & uh - TW: So it's kind of related to like sedimentation? JZ: Yeah & they had some - BW: Is this for during the const or - JZ: For during const. BW: Oh, I see. JZ: What will we do, what is the plan for uh preventing pollution due to storm water during const?
CLM: It's not a new request; it's the one that if u impact more than 5 yrs - JZ: Yeah. CLM: u have to _ _ - JZ: & in fact, yeah, yeah, in fact, our standard, our standard approach to this is to have our const contractor prepare it. CLM: It always includes it, yeah. JZ: &, & we do; in this contract we say prepare a Storm Water Pollution Prevention Plan, uno, as well as other plans that have to do with env'l protection.
But we've gone a little beyond that & &, & laid some of the framework down, uno, ourselves, the COE, uh in a plan; & we're, & we point out to the St of MO that we also uno, a more detailed plan will be dev'd by our contractor who's responsible for, for doing all this uh - CLM: 'cause the contractor - JZ: production. CLM: has to acquire, apply for & acquire a permit from DNR. JZ: Well, not actually a permit, but - CLM: Well, they have to approve his plan; he has to submit it to DNR. JZ: Well, they, they approve, they submit it to us, but we're gonna submit it to MDNR. CLM: Ok. JZ: Yeah, so anyway, I'm just tryin' to point out that we have done one of the things, one of the main things that MDNR said to do at our uh at our P&S Review mtg.
Uh I mean, one of, they have, there was a previous, uno we submitted this eng'd fill plan to MDNR & StLCnty, uh in a multi-page letter with a bunch of uh env'l data attached to & referenced & so forth; & then they gave it back with cmts, ok; uh they had a whole list of cmts, like 8 cmts; & that's, & StL Cnty had another 3 cmts. So we've got, in our fwd'g letter back to them, we've got all these cmts uh referenced & then addressed. So it's like a 7-page letter of what we're doing about all their cmts. & uh anyway, you'll, you'll get a copy of that.
One of the cmts is we should consider uh covering this material, this eng'd fill material as we, as we go, so to speak, every day. & we have taken a position that that's not really necessary & it's very costly & it makes it extremely expensive for the contractor or for the, for the project to, to, to do that; uno, to cover with, with clay material & eng'd fill every day. So uh that's the position we've taken in this uh - CLM: Who made that cmt? JZ: It was uh MDNR. They said we should CONSIDER; it didn't say we should do it. CLM: Go say it's -
JZ: & when we explained & discussed it at this mtg, uh uno, uh Scott Waltrip uno, understood very well that, uno, how do u, how do u cover something up when u expect it to rain, uno, & it's just unnecessary. So we're gonna prevent the run-off from the area from getting into the river & that's, that's the way we're handling that - CLM: I just wanna cmt that if - JZ: that's what we proposed.
CLM: that or anything else became a problem with DNR, that u think they're being unreasonable, I'm sure that Sen Gibbons' ofc would like to know about that, uh so they could uh uno, inquire with DNR to make sure things are clarified. JZ: Well, we have no indication that there'll be a problem with this. I'm just letting uno one of the, one of the things that's included in our Storm Water Pollution Prevention Plan. Um -
?: Jim, _ - BW: _ somebody that _ _ - Andy: Can u clarify, u said u, note, it wasn't exactly (_ _someone coughs_ _) Isn't the COE required to, even tho it's a federal agency, isn't it nevertheless required to produce a storm water - JZ: We have - Andy: mutual sanitation, uno, drill bound? I mean - JZ: We have a - Andy: do u have some permit that goes _ _ - JZ: We have a permit already. Andy: Ok, that's _ - JZ: We have a permit that was, it uh uh issued at the beginning of const of the project. It's, it uno - CLM: _ _ _ _ _ I guess. JZ: & we had - & it was renewed, oh, about a yr or so ago. Andy?: That's my 1st, yeah, (I had the mtg?) - JZ: But there's no need for a SPECIFIC permit for this eng'd fill. Andy: Absolutely. JZ: Right, as long as we have a Storm Water Pollution Prevention Plan, which, which is what we've prepared.
Andy: Which typically MDNR doesn't even ask for anyway. JZ: If we had not prepared a Storm Water Pollution Prevention Plan, we probably would've had to go to get a specific permit for this eng'd fill which would've been a, a whole new process.
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 5 of 19
So, um, I mentioned uno, we're working on uh revising the P&S. Um, I just want to go thru the dates again of where, what we're headed on the design effort & the contracting effort. Um 5/16 is the date - this is the same schedule we've had for, for quite a few months now - is the date for us to send a synopsis of the contract to what's called Federal Biz Ops, which is a publication of upcoming fed contracts, uno to let, let the contracting cmty know that, that something is coming, ok.
& it uh 6/2 is the date that we have set for our real estate, our ofc, to certify that, that all the lands & relocations are, or all the lands are acquired & the relocations are arranged for, uno, to our satisfaction. Um, 6/16 is the date that we, what we call, issue the P&S to perspective bidders. Essentially, we, we now, our P&S now, uno, we have a little CD ROM that takes the place of about an inch-thick set of specs & about 1/3-inch thick set of plans. CLM: U gonna (live?) thru? - JZ: & we send these, uno, the CD's out to everybody which is a - CLM: _ _ _ _ _ - JZ: spectacular way to do it. Yeah, & we also put 'em on the website & u can come & get 'em (chuckle), uno. CLM: _ _ _ - JZ: Uh but anyway, that's, that's an really important date & then uh 7/14 is the date that the bids would be opened, & award on 8/11.
CLM: Notice to Proceed, uh - JZ: Notice to Proceed, we have down for 8/25. Andy: I'm sorry, Jim, what was the date when _ _ _ _ snyopsis will go out? JZ: Commerce biz, to uh knock-off, the Fed Biz Ops, 5/16. CLM: That's the old Commerce Biz Daily publication. JZ: Right.
BW: Ok, on 8/25, u gotta, you're, you're gonna send out a Notice to Proceed? JZ: To the contractor, uno, we've, we've awarded the contract; contractor has got his uh insurance & those other requiremts uh together; & we actually notify them that they should proceed with the const. BW: What kind of, are u givin' 'em some kind of timeframe to do it in, or - JZ: Well, the contract right now calls for a, uh 18 months, it says it in days, uh 540 days, but 18 months of time to do the job. & then u add to that & the contract reads that uno severe weather delays, it uno it gets added to the contract period. So typically, a contract goes uno several months extra because u go thru the winter & they can't work & so forth. But, I mean in general, we're, we're thinking of a 2-yr const period would be the, probably the way it willl work out approximately.
CLM: 'course a good contractor's gonna finish as low as he can because he gets the same amt of money. He can move his equipmt & people somewhere else when there's money on the other job. BW: Is there any kind of penalties for being late or anything, or - JZ: There are, but they're - BW: awards for being early? (chuckle) JZ: Uh no! We don't, we don't do uh like the private sector does, uh incentive awards & things like that but, but there, there's a relatively minor um penalty for being late; it's built into fed contracts. I, I can't tell u what the amt is but it's - CLM: That's boiler plate where (everything's?) _ _ _ _ - JZ: Yeah. CLM: _ _ _ _ -
BW: So the major determining factor in, in the const is really gonna boil down to weather? JZ: Yeah, &, &, & things could come up that uno that surprise u or whatever. I mean a flood could come up & delay everything. BW: Oh, I don't wanna hear that. JZ: So I mean, uno - CLM: When they put a term in a contract down, they do that in P&S & they kind of build-in some weather considerations. JZ: Right, there's some weather built into it. BW: I, yeah, yeah. CLM: Within the contract, they can claim exceptional bad weather & get the COE to approve a day-by-day extenstion for severe weather claims.
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 6 of 19
BW: Yeah, yeah, but at, at that point in time, all the ducks should be in order & they should be able to - JZ: Well again, it also depends on funding uno that's another factor. CLM: See the contract runs thru more than one FY. BW: Oh, ok, right. CLM: So when we get the funding, the Congress aprops the funds solely on an annual aprops-yr basis from 10/1 to 9/30. JZ: Well, I guess I'm tryin' to lay out - what are the possible pitfalls & that what you're looking for. BW: You're right, that's what I'm, I'm - JZ: Funding is a potential pitfall.
CLM: They're, they're assuming that the Congress will fund the project at the full capability. BW: 2nd yr award, 2nd, uno, what - JZ: Yeah, I mean you're gonna start uh uno, in FY 03 & then you'll need, be needing funds in FY 04 & fiscal 05 from the fed side. & the sponsor have, from uno what I understand, the sponsor's funds are basically assembled, uno, for this -
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 7 of 19
BW: At, at the, at the end of this contract you're _ _ now, or on - JZ: in Aug. BW: 8/11, when that contract is completed, will that afford the city protection then? JZ: Right, flood protection. There's one other little const contract that remains that has to do with env'l mit work, some other, uno, some other tree planting & some work in the creeks - BW: As far as uh physical protection, we should be - JZ: Right, for actual flood protection.
CLM: Jim, actually the contract actually calls for seeding & mulching & everything else, doesn't it? JZ: Oh yeah, it's a complete job; uh it's the levee, uno - CLM: The levee const will actually be finished before that, before the contract is over. BW: Oh, I yeah, I would, yeah, yeah. CLM: So you'll actually have protection prior to that _ - JZ: The contract uno involves the levee, it, uh all the way from StL Ave, all around the Mer River & tying into the MOPAC track, ok.
It involves these 2 eng'd fills which are gonna make up part of the levee. I, I didn't bring my, my drawing this time, uh uno, that shows the, the project area. But there's these 2 eng'd fills that, that are actually form part of the flood protection. They're like an extra big levee, or extra wide levee at the top, that we have this g/p material placed in.
& then there's uhm, there's storm sewers that bring, take water that comes from along Hiway 141 - BW: All that's included in this? JZ: That's all included &, & there's places where they, this, these storm sewers go thru the levee & then empty into the Mer River; & so there's, there's uh concrete gate walls that are in the levee that have gates that close down, keep the river from backing into this cmty.
& then there's relief wells which uh are needed for uno underseepage control uh that are built, uno there's 9 of 'em over at the uhm Simpson Lake det area & there's something like 31 that are at the uh in the g/p area. So all, all those things are part of the contract, anything that has to do with the flood protection, protecting the cmty from the river. BW: So this contract is gonna - CLM: This is it! BW: gonna get it there? JZ: Yeah, it's a, it's a major contract. CLM: This is the one we've been waitin' for. BW: Yeah, u bet!
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 8 of 19
Now is - do u specify the manner in const? In other words, do they do - raise it up the whole length 2 ft - JZ: No - BW: _ 2 ft _ _ - JZ: No, there's - BW: _ build _ - JZ: certain, there's certain things that go into what was called Order & Coordination of Work. I think, uh uno, there's certain pieces of the job that we think have to be done first & then, & then 2nd, uno. But we don't get into a whole lot of detail about giving direction to the contractor because a lot of times these contractors have a real good idea how to do the job, & how to do it well & how to do it most efficiently based on their own experience. ?: _ _ -
TW: Typically u do a performance (fact in?) - JZ: Yeah, build, build something that is, needs this compaction - TW: _ density, compaction. It's more based on performance, end-result product - BW: rather than how to do it exactly. TW: With certain caveats - BW: Yeah. TW: Typically u say, well, u have to keep this area open - BW: Right. TW: at all times.
JZ: Well, for example, we have, the contractor has to build the storm drains over & along Hwy 141 uno &, & put a gravity drain in to take the water out to the Mer River before they start filling-in, in the AL area; they, they, that's something that they have to do 1st.
& then they have to do an eng'd fill. I mean, I mean they have to do a, uhm a test fill where they take this g/p material &, &, & grind it up & mix it the way we specify in the specs, mix things together & place it. & test it, we test it uno, uh how, how many passes with, with different uh compaction equipmt is gonna do the job, ok. & then, then we'll know uno exactly how much we, we think, we knew, we know but we wanna know exactly how we're gonna compact this material & so there's a test fill. Those kind of things has to be done before other things are done. But um, that's, that's the general plan. Um, relief -
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 9 of 19
BW: How much will it get, will it - what portion of it or what do u expect to get done this 2000 yr, 2003 yr? JZ: Oh, I think in 2003 very little. I mean that - it, it ends at the end of Sept. But ok, our FY ends at the end of Sept, so uno, we're gonna be award, we're gonna be giving a Notice to Proceed at the end of Aug. So there's like one month for the contractor to mobilize some things on-site & start some work.
So they'll be - we project very little earnings, contractor earnings in FY 03, but then in FY 04 & 05 are much different. BW: But you'll be able to continue on, basically? JZ: Right, there's a continuing, there's a continuing clause in the contract that says we can only, uno by, based on fed law, we can only, we only fund things by - on a FY basis &, & we, we're allowed to uh uno get u started & then when FY ofunds, 04 funds arrive, uno we'll, we'll keep, we'll keep u workin' uno.
CLM: The contract is based on the mechanism that allows the COE to award multiple - BW: But they're - CLM: contracts using _ _ - BW: they're not gonna stop until fed funds are approved for 04 completely, or - JZ: Um, u, u never know for sure what's gonna happen at the beginning of a FY. & the contractor has an opportunity to either, I mean if, if, if no funds are available - ok let's just say something happens & funds are delayed for a few months, uh they really have an opportunity to either stop work or continue to work at, at somewhat at their own risk, uno. CLM: They don't do that.
JMitas: _ _ _ the city, or the levee dist only has funds in escrow that are matching but a lot of that's - JZ: Well, they had, let me say, to be more specific, uh we only ask for money on a - one FY at a time also for, for sponsor funds. So, so we've asked for money for FY 03 & uh we, I wanna talk about that in a little bit more detail. But, but we will ask for money for FY 04. Uhm, I think we sent out the letter in, in July & they have to have the money in the escrow acct by 30 days prior to the start of the yr; so by uh the end of Aug, the money that we asked, that we say we need for FY 04. But if I know, I mean based - BW: _ from the city, you're talkin' - JZ: From the city. BW: Yeah.
CLM: That's based upon a %age of what they anticipate (it will be?). JZ: &, &, & I just know from dealing with Eric & &, & everybody that uno, that I understand the money's available. We've actually given u back a bunch of money so I know that money's still available. So I think funds are available to - for the city's standpoint, to finish out the project. Am, am I, am I right? EM?: Yes.
JMitas: My ques is, it works until the fed side, they go into some sort of delay, into instead of having them available for the first few days of Oct & it backed up into early Nov, couldn't the project continue based upon escrow funds that the city has - JZ: _ - JMitas: or it had thought? JZ: Generally, you're supposed to keep things kind of even (chuckle).
CLM: What, what, what's happenin' - well first of all, usually the COE has enough money left over from the previous yr, they can carry over; unlike some gov't agencies, the COE can expend funds in one FY & the next _ _ - JMitas: Ok, that's what I mean. CLM: The other situation whereby u reach a point, which we did in this project, as Jim remembers, where the fed funds weren't there, the city actually advanced money which gave, got credit for toward, towards its 5% cash contribution. JMitas: Ok. CLM: which allowed the project to go on to continue.
EM: This is est'd at bein' a $12M contract &, & notes - city doesn't have $12M in the till. Uh - JMitas?: I was thinking _ _ _ in wks category - EM: We, we have sufficient monies to pay our fed share & uh uhm uno maybe we might be able to work out something I guess if we're talking wks but - JZ: Yeah. CLM: Probably in this case, u want to have -
TW: I think - CLM: _ _ - TW: Eric answered my ques, what - is there a revised est, Jim, that u guys - I know typically when u get to that final design - JZ: Uhm, we still have the same est; we haven't revised the est for this, for this contract. I mean when we get to the point of, of uhm uno, opening bids, there's a separate gov't est prepared that said we compare, uno, with the bids. But it really doesn't get prepared until the P&S are out there for review & our, our cost estimators go off & prepare what's ofc'l gov't est.
BW: What's the outlook for 04 fed funds? I guess - JZ: uh we probably uh if u want to slip down on the agenda, I mean our, the other thing that - BW: If you're gonna talk about it later on, go ahead thru your - JZ: No, yeah, maybe, I don't know if uh the only other thing, I didn't have anything more about Item 4B, but I know that Eric may have some things to talk about the lands & relocations _ _.
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 10 of 19
DM: Well, Jim, something I'd like to ask, today, Eric was telling me that there might be less clay down there like when they're doin' the burn permit. If there is less clay down in there, maybe I misunderstood, if there's less clay, is that, how would that possibly delay the project?
JZ: uh where, where we talkin' about? EM: I, I, I told him about the conversation; maybe u're not aware of it. uh when the, the contractor opened a burn pit, uhm, he anticipated 8 ft of clay until he reached the sand banks. JZ: Umhuh. EM: Instead, he only found 1 ft of clay before he got to the sand banks. JZ: Hmm, no, I didn't know that. EM: & that raised all kinds of eyebrows with our Foundation Sec, Pat, & Pat called & has requested that the COE be supplied with a uh backhoe Wed morning & an operator. Uh Pat had done surveys outside & in some areas of the proposed uh borrow area & they were all consistent with 8 ft of clay. JZ: Umhuh.
EM: I, I think probably all it means is we'd have to get some more off-site clay. JZ: U mean, I would say, I mean in general, we know we - the city has already purchased, uh made arrangemts for - EM: Sure. JZ: clay from Simpson Sand & Gravel, but uno if there's something that we're short on, some clay that we're short on, I would think there's enough available from other resources.
EM: Yeah, I, I, we've, we've got over a Million cu ft of, of high quality clay there available to us & - DM: What were they thinking, _ Wednesday show then, how much clay, if we have to buy any or use some of _ _ - EM: Well, since they're spec'ing it out, I take it they have to quantify that amt &, & give some sort of - JZ: Yeah, is there some, do we need to make an adjustmt in the design or the quantity or, or uno -
BW: Is this the - a problem of the burn pit or a problem of levee const? JZ: It's, it's - EM: No, it, it's this - TW?: fill. BW?: Oh. EM: I, I it, it's really logistics more than anything else & - BW: But they can still burn even if they got down to uh sand? JZ: Right, I don't think it affects the burn permits; just info that became available. BW: Oh, ok. DM: But it's from the borrow area, I was concerned about - JZ: It may impact the levee borrow area. DM: if we had to - ?: _ _ - ?: _ _ - ?: _ _ -
TW: Can I, can I make a point also? Depending on where that burn pit location is, the grade may be down to an elevation such that Pat had already, ya, uno, it may be at a lower elevation at a burn pit - JZ: I, I don't know, I mean I don't know exactly what the burn permit is or - TW: It may be an elevation where they had not counted on any fill material.
EM: What, what I'm thinking of is, is we acquired some prop from a Larry Knoll, uh some yrs ago. I think it was 4 or 5 lots & uh he, he had actually been mining that dirt out there for uh - he was in the nursery biz or landscaping biz. So I suspect that's what he was doing; he probably dug down & that's maybe just happen-stance. ?: That area is bought!
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 11 of 19
BW: I got a ques on the burning; uh in this one letter here, it says something about from 10 till 4, from uno to 4/15 & then 7 to 4 after 4/15. Why the time difference in the dates, uno? JZ: Well, that's a, that's a county MO - I'm sorry, that's a uh MDNR regulation. & I think it just has to do with just changes in weather patterns & wind & between summers & winter, & yeah. BW: I was curious why the hrs would change in 15 days, uno. JZ: They have different hrs of the day & different seasons of the yr. CLM: 'cause of the wind patterns & also the, once the weather warms up, u have a different situation as far as how smoke can go up as opposed to going down.
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 12 of 19
EM: Well, I'll, I'll hit the, the land acquisitions. Um, uh in, in early April, uh city was awarded what's called a, a Writ of Possession for uh the 3 props uh that the city condemned for Edward Harrawood, on Arnold's uh Landing & uh 5 props that were owned by Vinita Brown, meaning that the city's entitled to take possession of those props subject to the rights of the tenant in possession; uh they have rights under the Uniform Relocation Act. uh the city has rights subject to that &, & we are exercising our rights.
Um, Mr McCord's firm, Purdy & Assoc, is going out tomorrow uh in order to do some uh testing to uh hopefully alleviate concerns raised in a Phase 1 Study. Uh there, there was an indication that there perhaps were some contaminants present in that area.
Uhm, the court ordered me to give 60 days notice to the tenants; we've, we are doing that. uh the, the tenants do have this relocation right. Um, one of 'em are rep'd, two of them are not. So far uh none of them has contacted me with regard to their rights under that act & uh I'll, I'll of course have to go back to the bd & get authy on those.
For Richard McGhee, Maureen Morris uh & Valley Plaza Assoc & Lillian DeWitt, those remain the uh 4 props that are in condemnation. Uh because of a change in the alignmt um necessitated an amended petition on Meramec Valley, er Meramec uh Venture Assoc, Meramec Valley Plaza, uh the court went ahead & granted a postponemt that she'd prevently, previously granted to Maureen Morris anyway. & so all the cases are consolidated for 5/13 for a hearing on, on uh whether or not to appoint cmsnrs.
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 13 of 19
Uhm Simpson Materials - there was a revised ROW uh needed for a temp const esmt. Those have all been platted & descriptions done; submitted to uh the Simpson's & their atty. We have an appointmt at uh 10:00 on Wed in order to uh - the surveyor's coming out at 9:00 I believe on Wed uh & he's going to uh stake out that add'l ROW necessary. Uh I did have a, a price that I'm gonna ask for approval from the bd to increase the offer of just comp to Simpson on that. It was actually a pretty considerable amt, I think like 12K sq ft or so was needed for uh add'l temp const esmt.
Uh Rondal Investmts - we, we closed on that; that's the Kirchner Co.
Uh Wallace Investmts, there's 3 families involved & 2 of 'em live in N Carolina, so I, I've circulated the uh closing docs uhm to those parties. Uhm - DM: So they agreed; they're just waiting to get the paperwork signed? EM: Actually it's a strange deal. It's uh the prop is under contract with Phil Rideout, who in turn has a long-term lease on it with D&L Rideout Salvage Co. So it's, it's like a multi-party deal, but uh -
CLM: (Enacted or inactive?) for our bonus. EM: Ah, ah, ah, at any rate, uh the, the Wallaces have indicated that they're just gonna turn everything over to Rideout as long as he's been satisfied & Phil has been satisfied uh on it, so yeah. I think we're just circulating that material &, & it's just in the 3 Wallace families.
CLM: Eric, are u gonna write a book about how to acquire props for bldg the levee project? EM: (chuckle) Interesting. DM: But do we have to get - say Phil Rideout's happy, it's just once the 3 Wallaces have signed in, we've got this? EM: Phil will be happy once his tenant is gonna be happy & that's a separate deal. Uh again all these tenants have rights under the Uniform Relocation Act. & his tenant has salvage uh a salvage yard, so he'll bring vehicles that are wrecked, until they're taken for ultimate storage & destruction at a uh uh junkyard; uhm & he charges by the day for that svc.
Uh I, I believe what we're going to do, what I'm gonna recommend that we do, when we get into the stage where the COE needs to get on his prop - all they're doing - it's all temp const - is shaping his prop so there's flowage (oh please) uh uh into the, the drainage ditch which in turn goes over to the uh det basin. Uh but we're gonna have to do something with those automobiles. Uh what, what I would propose is we go ahead & utilize Johnny Mac's down there. Uh we'll simply just tow the cars off, have a secured lot down there, maybe have a night watchman uh because we're liable for the course. DM: Is this just temp; we have to move the cars when we're done? We have to bring 'em back? EM: Yeah, we're talking about no more than probably uhm, uh a 30-day contract. So it, it may be less than that.
Uh hopefully we can find enough fence in the area to create some sort of uh - DM: There is fence down there. EM: There, there is, yeah. DM: Ok. EM: Uhm - CLM: Is his area fenced now? EM: Yeah, it, it's all secure. CLM: Should've known it made no difference. EM: Uhhhh &, & it has to be secured because peop- the, the owners of the prop have rights to come on there & uno get their personal goods out. This is stuff that's taken right after a collision. CLM: Oh! Ok. EM: They take 'em then.
Uhm, backyards on Pyramid - uh 6 esmts or uhm perm esmts or temp const esmts were necessary. Of those 6, I got 5 of 'em uh in-hand. Um & uh comp's been made to everybody other than Mrs uh Richardson who died um, but I had an appointmt to see her actually & she had died. Uh there is an estate that u, u have to wait 30 days after somebody dies before u can open an estate & uh that should be opened by uh 5/8 I believe was the date. Uh & I talked to the executor & I've talked to the executor's atty, so uh everybody's in harmony on that; it's just we can't legally do anything until they get what's called Letters uh from the court.
Uhmmm UP uhm in the packet, I, I, I did put a uh Request for Disbursemts - no, I'm sorry, it's BN - Request for Disbursemts be made on uh uh - it's a temp const esmt, perm esmts, together with a uhm, permit for Right of Entry & processing fee. So that's all in-hand pretty much as soon as we get our money uh up to BN on that.
uh I think UP is still pending with uh their const mgmt if I'm not mistaken. JZ: Uh the contact person (isn't?) in their real estate ofc & he's supposed to coordinate all that with them within the RR. We have talked to them lately & that's good but - & Craig has sent them a letter with more uno with more drawings &, & everything.
Uno UP is the place where we had moved that pipe on the, on the north side of UP. He's sent them all new drawings that make it real clear where, what everything is & uh hopefully that'll facilitate a little bit faster movemt on their part.
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 14 of 19
DM: Jim, when does the city have to have all their prop? Does the city have to have all these esmts & everything to keep from sliding everything out? The end of May I believe, we - JZ: Yeah, I mean end of May & we have to - CLM: 6/2 _ _ - JZ: 6/2, we want to certify & there's, there's uhm, some things that have to happen before then, like getting uh, uhm legal descriptions that we have our surveyors review & so forth.
DM: & that hearing on 5/13, is that - how long after that would be a worst case? I guess, assuming that there's a hearing, is that 2 wks or - EM: Well, assuming the judge sees things our way, I mean I wouldn't see any reason that she would not, uhm she appoints these 3 cmsnrs.
&, & these guys are, it's usually a lawyer, real estate agent & school teacher or something like that; it's, it's just a matter for these guys to get together; uhm, it can take a couple wks. Usually these guys get paid, they get paid a couple hundred bucks an hour. So they want to get in there & get their money & get their job done ASAP, so sooner the better for them. Uhm I, uno I think probably a wk, 10 days or so is usually the outside that uh uh these guys would do it.
Once they meet uh they usually take - u, u combine the viewing with the hearing uhm so they see the prop & then uh - last time we just came back here & uh, ah after we toured the prop, came back here, made our argumts uh &, & then I guess it took 'em about 3 days. Uh I think both sides sent add'l briefs in to 'em & uh got cmts back from the appraisers & sent those in. It's a relatively short process.
DM: & u think this is probably the work, or the most involved I guess; so once we get these props on 5/13, we'll have everything in-hand then? Say 2 wks post 5/13 that we should have all the plans? You said there's, the uh Mrs Richards, uh Richardson I believe; so I just - EM: I, I, I, I, there's not much control we have over, over that estate, but uh it's really minor - DM: There's a couple others, so if we have everything that's gonna be at the hearing on 5/13, will the others pretty much fall into place, do u think? EM: Ah, absolutely. Uhm, the, the uh uh I'll just continue on.
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 15 of 19
We, US Cotton Co - uh we, we've agreed to everything. They simply want some more work done on a survey that we did but they want to adopt that. As uno they've got that prop for sale & Kirk's working on that with the surveyor. They just want some uh some corrections in the uh the areas needed for the levee & it sold. Uh talked to Kirk about that today & he's, he's on that &, & we'll get it & we'll close right after we get that. Uh & we've agreed with the money & the, the instruments, everything else.
Uh Valley Plaza Assoc, I've met now twice with the prop owners. uh &, & uh we've got that I think worked out & I'll meet with the bd uh tonight on that, asking for uh authy.
Uh & then the last one is MODOT - She, uh Brenda, Belinda Niswonger was on vacation until today, uh she got back. & I do have a call in to her; she has not responded back. Uhm, she, she has all the materials. Have u talked to her? TW: Well, Kirk's been coord'g with her & that's really the only piece of the puzzle that we have left to do, really, I, I believe - EM: Umhuh - TW: as per Kirk who's tryin' to put it in shape. DM: The MODOT banks? The banks along the RR?
TW: Yeah, & that's really the only - we have this, the coordination of that survey with US Cotton, that's a survey we already had DONE; it's actually providing them & doing them a favor. EM: Yeah, they just want to adopt the thing &, & uh - TW: We did our part of it for getting it surveyed & actually helped them straighten out some issues they had on - EM: Umhuh - TW: there (Ed?) - EM: Ah - TW: (Harper?) - EM: absolutely. TW: after Jay Hub, but the MODOT is really the only piece that we have left. Uh I met with Kirk today - that, that we have to do for, for the church because (_ _ noises that sound maybe like someone wiping off the recorder with a tissue or whatever! while TW says a few more words _ _) -
EM: Well, &, & before 5/31, a, a big item that, that's on MY table is uhm, the, the COE has to know the pr- what the prop interest that we've acquired is, know WHERE we acquired it AT, know where that fits in with the footprint of the levee (they don't know?!) & know that we've got good title. Uh & they sub this out to a third party, uhm I think somebody down in New Orleans if I'm not mistaken, this last yr last time, but uh, uh whatever!
So I, I've gathered the titles &, & a lot of these titles were acquired in the StLCnty Buy-Out. Uhm, &, & way back when this project was, was started, all the props were assigned uh uh an alphabetical letter, followed by a number. All that's changed pretty dramatically now &, & each, each alphabet # had a Cnty Locator # attached to it. It's all changed because the alignmt has changed &, & that's, & there's been a lot combinations, all kinds of things thru the yrs.
So l've gotta sit down & try to match up what we've got with what the ROW is so we'll be able to demonstrate to the COE, we've got lots 850 thru 920 in Pharoah Valley Subdiv which is in area blub (!) at, uh, uno under the footprint of the levee.
Uh I'm gonna HAVE TO go back because the cnty did this - I found no evidence of commitmts; altho I know it was run thru First Capitol, or, or Capitol Title Ins Co & I'm assuming they have a master commitmt out there but I've never seen it. As far as I can tell, the city doesn't have one; that, that is a Master Commitmt Title Ins Policy. So I've gotta go back thru their archives & get that; the city needs it for its records anyway. Uh - ... (exchange tapes)
...EM: ...u did. U're gonna have to certify that we have this & before I'll sign it, we'll tell u to sign it. We have - u & I have to be sure we've got everything & we have binders to cover everything that we're doing. & WE send it to the COE; the COE out-sources it; & they often-time have cmts because they'll go back thru sometimes & they plot all this stuff out too. & they'll see maybe there's an improper legal or maybe there's gaps, or u never know! what, what's going on here. But I, I'm doing - I'm in the process of doing all that uh as well.
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 16 of 19
BW: Jim, before u could proceed on your, your 6/11 er 6/2 certification, u - that's a hard, fast thing? You gotta have all your - everything says go _ _ -
JZ: There, there's uh an opportunity for an exception (chuckle), ok. I mean we either have our real estate ofc certify that they, they're convinced that everything is available, all the land is available; are there, if there's uhm, there's some parcel or parcels that are out there that are not quite acquired yet but they're very close, ok. We can prepare a, uh a memorandum that uh describes the risk of uh uno, what, what is it that remains to be done, what is the schedule, uno, how, uno, & uhm, we don't think the, the risk is very great uno & describe why &, & the project mgr & the real estate office - BW: _ _ iron clad? JZ: there can be, we can move ahead without that absolute certification. BW: Ok. JZ: We have to have a lot of reasons & justification in, in a memorandum. BW: Right, yeah, yeah.
EM: But we're talking about maybe somewhere around, I'm thinkin' 110 properties all together; it, it's a lot. uh &, & uno, they, they've been acquired over the yrs.
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 17 of 19
So uh & I guess the 2nd thing that we're working on is utility relocations. Uhm we, we've got letters of commitmt from I think nearly all the utilities uh save - I just gave Jim 2 more today from Charter Communications - JZ: AT&T. EM: & AT&T uh the, the, the last one I believe out there is StLCnty Water or Mid American Water & I've written that in be, because by con_... (tape recorder malfunctioned a few seconds.)...EM:...I'm, I'm waiting for a response from them, so hopefully, that's the last, the last relocation that we're going to be worried about but I know the COE still has to approve their plans for completing the 2 River uh on that one, but uh (someone curiosly clears their throat) Dewitt ! (throat deal again)
Uh on & the, the last part, when, when we condemn prop uh &, & we're awarded possession, uh the prop owner or the city both have the option to ask for a jury trial on those props & they file what's called Written Exceptions.
Uh & I did want to let uno that both prop owners have filed Written Exceptions; so there will be jury trials on uh they - they've all been combined into 2 parcels. So right now, there will be a jury trial on the Brown prop &, & its value & there will be a jury trial on the Harrawood prop & its value. Uh the, the, the stuff that the cmsnrs did only establishes an initial value & it's not admissible in court. We, we basically start at scratch at, at the trial on that.
CLM: That doesn't affect the city (_ _someone clears throat_ _) - EM: No, no we have - CLM: Just arguing about the price. EM: That's right; we have, we have total title to it. If, if a jury awards more money, the city has to pay it in as a judgemt against us; on the converse, a jury could award less money & in THAT case, the landowner have, has to give the difference back, plus interest. CLM: It's a crap shoot really for the homeowner because _ - EM: Yeah, well & the city gets tagged with interest too. EM?: I don't think u can tell. EM: Yeah.
BW: So there's no real major problems right now? EM: No. BW: It looks like - JZ: There's still plenty - BW: everything's falling in place? JZ: of work going on right now (laugh). There's a lot of work going on. BW: Oh yeah, but I mean nothing has come to an impass. I mean it's not (_something falls over _). It looks like it's all gonna work? JZ: Right.
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 18 of 19
Andy: I had one permit issue to raise, which I don't perceive as being an impass right now. The uh Storm Water Permit for the relief wells went out to public notice & there was at least one public response, in the MO Coalition for the Env't & I have not had enough details on this yet. I was, I was really hoping the DNR would get back to me today, but they haven't done that. & uhm, I'm not sure, I know, I know a little bit. One, there was a couple of bureaucratic issues which they raised with the, the DNR about the way they, they'd done the public notice.
& there was also some cmts, they raised some concerns about the potential for contamination from the, from the Superfund site. I'm gonna do a little, touch base _ - CLM: They're gonna give u the opportunity to cmt back on that to clarify the absurdity. Andy: Yeah, uhm, the public notice period closed last wk some time, Wed. So we're kind of waiting to see & I'd really hoped as I'd get back with more info today. I did talk with Tom Seigel in the Permit Ofc here in StL & he, his immed reaction was that he wasn't overly concerned. CLM: Good. Andy: But I think he, uno, it's just a ques of him having to talk to his, his seniors in, in Jeff City & kind of see what's uh what's goin' on.
EM: &, & the process is, they, they make a decision on the record uh I suppose & uh it was written cmts obviously. It - was it - Andy: (Well, I've or Rob?) (made it - or may have?) handed him, literally within mins. EM: It wasn't a tech - was it highly technical or - Andy: It was, it was amateurish technical. EM: Oh, ok. (BW chuckles)
Andy: It was, it was kind of petty, petty-minded book stuff really to be honest. I mean I come from a fairly green bkgd &, & really, I don't think they presented a very good case. They didn't REALLY understand the issues. CLM: This is the Coalition for the Env't? Andy: Yeah, they just didn't REALLY understand the significance of the fact that the only time that the wells are pumping is when the river's high & there's a lot of water flowing down & so if there IS any discharge, it's at high river levels anyway, so it's really just a minor -
CLM: Well, my experience with the Coalition for the Env't over the last 25 yrs is that they're never bothered with the fact they don't understand the facts. Andy: It was quite a well-presented letter, but I - the bureaucratic issues with the Co- (seems almost said COE, but correcting himself) with the DNR on that, I couldn't make any cmt on. There were some technical issues there which were more involved with the regulations than the internal presentations. But in terms of the env'l issues, I really would think - my perception was, from, from what, what I hear from Tom Seigel, but is it a real _ _ _ _ _ - CLM: _ -
EM: Plus, it actually performs an aeration function anyway, I guess, in the long haul. Andy: It really was a fairly weak, weak case & I met with Tom & I, I was quite surprised at the cmt. I didn't think they (followed?) with this one. I - they gotta fight some battles; I thought well, this was the great one to fight; I really do. CLM: They, they won't sue over that. Let me know if that doesn't take care of it so I can go back with cmts.
4/21/03 LEV - Sec 19 of 19
DM: City cost share. Does anybody have anything for us there? JZ: Uh as far as the city is concerned, um, uno, we have - you're well aware, we, we've uh recomputed the amt of cash contribution the city had needed to give us before the end of the FY 03. & we've determined that we needed to give back $959K; this is, this is based on uno, the real estate uh costs & so forth that Eric had assembled on, in, in uh in a new real estate est.
& we had an understanding that uhm, the way we would handle that would be leave the - there's $181K still in the escrow acct that the COE had never removed. The city had put that there & we will leave that there, untouched & the interest from that goes to the city. & then we would return uh by check, $778K & we have done that uh with a check dated uh 2/14! for $678K & another check for $100K dated 3/27; both went to city hall.
& I've got a, I've got a letter - I'm gonna give this to Eric - but I've got a letter that is in, making the rounds for signature, just to doc, uno, for future people that have to figure this out, what we uno, what we did as far as - CLM: (Cover?) - JZ: getting the - CLM: this yr. JZ: money back & so forth & so that, that's a copy of what's being sent around on letterhead for signature, Eric.
EM: In, in, in my est, I, I believe I'm, I'm about right on this. This 959 will, will go back to the COE over the next 2 yrs uh give or take some, uh &, & will - that'll be the end of our cash requiremts I believe, depending on what our real estate costs come out to uh - JZ: Yeah, I, I don't - EM: &, & that's still a work in progress. JZ: Yeah. (someone like coughs)
EM: They - it was, it was 22, I think is what we decided was the, at a, at a nine six I think or whatever, for est'd - JZ: I think it was more than just the 959 that u owe us, I mean u will owe, eventually owe us for a cash contribution, but - EM: It may, I mean maybe - JZ: within a few, not a huge amt - EM: Right, within a few hundred thousand, so - JZ: Right, right; that's the way it worked out based on the last cost est, right? (no response heard)
So, so I guess right now that was - that return of money was based on a certain assumption about funding that we're gonna uh need to spend this FY. & I guess if we get into the lattter part of the FY, I mean this is just a possibility - get into the July timeframe & we, uno we find that we're, we're spending more than we thought we were when we made this uh computation, we may come back & say well, we needed 30, 40, $50K even this FY depending on how, how things are goin'. EM: Sure. JZ: Ok uhm & then we will - the main thing that we will be looking at next FY & in determining what requiremts are for next FY & let uno about that.
DM: How much this FY? So it could be $30K - JZ: Well, I'm just, I'm just throwing out - DM: Roughly. JZ: a #. I mean - DM: Oh, ok, I mean it might be _ - JZ: I said 30, 40, 50; I mean I don't know, uno. DM: Ok, so it's not - JZ: But it's nothing that u wouldn't have - well, we, we could, u could just say it's ok with the city for us to withdraw that money from the escrow acct; uno, it's already there if there's, if there's a need.
DM: Do uno roughly next yr? I mean eventually it's gonna be more than the 959 - JZ: Well, I'm sayin' for the next 2 yrs - DM: Over the next 2, right, over the next 2 yrs. JZ: Yeah, over the next 2 yrs, right. DM: Do u think it'll be much over that? I mean - JZ: Well, I, I don't have my #'s with me, um -
DM: We pretty much got what we need then. JZ: Somewhere within a couple hundred thousand of, of um - EM: We've got WELL OVER what we need. DM: Ok, great. EM: I, I mean that's - DM: _ what I was hopin', Eric - EM: well all over it. Um... (see notes below)
Notes: The tape evidently shut itself off again, ironically without my notice as I was taking a few sketchy notes. I've bought another new tape recorder. Presumably, about the last 10 mins were not taped & my notes only indicate: EM: so we don't have to be replacing a lot of line & latterals. > JZ &/or CLM commented about: savings & slippage; Senate & House Conference; capability FY 04; $2M budget; the COE's capability of spending $7M for this project. CLM mentioned something about $350K.