Notes:  This mtg was held at the COE's 4th fl, CT-Bid Conference Rm, 1222 Spruce St, Downtown, St. Louis, from 1 pm until about 2:30 or so.  Before the mtg actually started, I asked JZ about this mtg being open to the public.  He said it was not really, but it was alright for me to stay.  He mentioned that these mtgs have been going on about every other wk, for the past 3 months. 


Present:  Kirk Carson of PH Weis & Assoc, JZ, Carol Kreutzer, Patti Fisher (left about 1:30), Pat Conroy (arrived at 1:20), Craig Donis & KT.  (Carol, Patti, Pat & Craig are all with the COE -see Section 2 below).

5/20/03 Levee IPR - Section 1 of  14


Craig Donis' Agenda Hand-out Info


VALLEY PARK PROJECT:  4B Real Estate Requirements. 

AGENDA - In Progress Review Meeting - 20 May 03. 

PLACE:  Corps of Engineers Office - CT Bid Room. 

TIME:  1:00 pm to 3:00 pm.

Relocations & Utilities


1.  Ameren UE   6.  AT&T
2.  Laclede Gas  7.  Charter Cable
3.  SBC Corporation  8.  City of VP (Roads)
4.  MSD  9.  MDOT (Storm Sewer)
5.  Sprint 10.  MO American Water Company


LAND ACQUISITION:  Review status of spreadsheet, confirm parcels under contract, identify survey or legal description requirements, confirm status of parcels in condemnation, establish dates for parcels that will require condemnation, confirm that all required appraisals have been completed & reviewed, review requests for R/W changes, if any, from landowners or attorneys.


Project Features:  Union Pacific - Report on status of Three Party Agreement;  BNSF - Report on status of Three Party Agreement.


Status of Negotiations

Status of Purchase Deeds for eng'g & legal review to certify ROW

Status of Condemnations

Report on VP Cmsn Mtg of 5/19/03


5/20/03 Levee IPR - Section  2 of  14


JZ:  Before we start, I mean let's, I think most people know people, but Karen Thorson is a member of the Bd of Ald for the City of VP;  newly elected I believe.  Right?  Karen:  Right.  JZ:  & Maureen Morris is a landowner in AL, in the area of, uh, of our project.  Kirk, of course, is with Weis & Assoc.  I'm Jim Zerega, the Project Mgr.  Uh, Carol Kreutzer is a newly uh, assigned person in charge of our utility relocations because the previous person uh, is, is gonna be retiring I guess in June.   Carol:  June 3rd.  JZ:  Patti Fisher is uh, in our Survey Dept & she's managing the effort to have our sur, our eng'g reveiw of the, of the surveys & deeds that uh, have been provided by the city.  Craig Donis is Chief of Real Estate Acquisition for the COE. 


There's a fella, who I think is gonna show up, named Pat Conroy.  When he does, he's in our Geotechnical Eng.  He's also done a lot of coordination with uh, utilities, what, what they have to do.  Well, you met Pat.  Karen:  I met him.  JZ:  at the uh, city mtg at city hall.  Karen:  Yeah.  JZ:  He was _ _ - Karen:  Yeah, I think I met him.  Craig:  & Harry Hamell, who is my person who's been the point of contact for the acquisition for VP uh, is, uh, tied up in another mtg & out of the office today;  so he's not gonna be here.  Harry was at the last mtg, but won't be at this one.  (I quickly have Craig, Patti & Carol spell their last names.) 


5/20/03 Levee IPR - Section  3 of  14


Craig:  _ _ on the agenda then, we were gonna let Patti go first because she had some other uh - ?: (background) short on pencils - Craig:  She agreed to come on short notice.  JZ:  Yeah.  Craig:  Uhm, & that is the item that's uh, status of the purchase deeds, uh for eng'g &, & legal review to certify ROW.  When we get the deeds in for the interests that are acquired, we send those deeds to Eng'g for their review to make sure that the area that's covered is the minimum area that we included in the uh, required ROW of the sponsor.  Um, ROW drawings, which they go to Weis & Weis develops the legal descriptions.  So I want to make sure when our contractor is on-site & finally on-board that there are no, uh gaps or problems that the contractor would have to stop work because not all the ROW's been acquired.  So we send the deeds over to Eng'g for that review & uh, we've gotten some deeds in from the city -


Patti:  We've got, yeah, as best I can - I've got 51 deeds & there's supposed to be 71.  & they said something about, in addition to the 16 received from Eric, I'm also sending the following.  So apparently, well apparently, I've got 67 deeds to be reviewed & I was told there were supposed to be like 71;  but he was really not sure if these were included in the property or not included.  So he just gave me all the deeds & said do it.  So, so um, the contractor's um, getting ready to start working on that. 


JZ:  Who's the contractor?  Patti:  Um, Bowen Eng'g.  & he's done deed reviews for uh Festus, Crystal City.  JZ:  Do you know their time, timeframe for the first batch?  Patti:  Not yet, uhm, it's, it's been slow-going 'cause I, I didn't get these till recently.  So uno, & then getting them down to him & stuff, it's, it's been a little slow-going.  JZ:  Ok.  Patti:  So um, it wont', I don't think it's gonna take that long to do 'em all & they could certainly be done probably by the end of June.  & I don't know what the timeframe of everything is. 


Craig:  Well, we were gonna try to certify before the end of June, by the 12th of June, so that they would be able to - Patti:  I don't think they'll be able to get 'em that quick.  Um, it's just been, I know I've, I've, this has been going back & forth for quite a while, but I didn't get the deeds till recently.  So uhm, I know you can't start working it without the deeds & it just takes time.  I will definitely try to see what they can do with it, but uno, I just, I'll just have to see.  


Craig:  Ok.  Kirk, are you aware of, you had the conversation with Eric about how uh, when the city's gonna get everything else to us so we can get going.  Kirk:  Uhm, I believe I've got all of the uh, legal descriptions & stuff sent to EM.  I believe they had a court case last Tuesday with some parties.  Uh, I know one of his hold-ups - JZ:  One of those is Maureen Morris, by the way. 


5/20/03 Levee IPR - Section  4 of  14


Kirk:  Oh, uhuh, ok & uh, I know one of the hold-ups was uh down there by Kena & Pyramid.  The, the lots are broken up into real tiny lots, 20 x 100, & he didn't have a way to check the deed against - the county's went thru & done away with their county locator system.  & I found a record of plat for him to double-check those against.  So I know that should be of help to uh, EM, but that's the only, that's the extent of my knowledge of the correspondence on that.


Patti:  I guess what I'm concerned about is I don't even have all the - I mean I was told there was gonna be about 71 & I only got 67.  So I don't know if there's actually more coming or if this is all - Craig:  I think there's gonna be some more coming.  Eric pointed out I guess at our last mtg, same thing that Kirk's talkin' about now. 


Since the county's done away with their locator system, it's harder for them to pull out properties that the city may have owned uhm, previously & identify what's under the footprint of the levee.  & it was easier to do with the county's locator system 'cause then he could go in & identify it by locator #'s.  So, but he said he was gonna get it to us, so uno, we need to get that because that's all part of the certification process.


Kirk:  I found, like I said, I found the old record plat that's got all the lot #'s on there, so the deeds would have the lot #'s on to verify those.  Craig:  Well, it doesn't help when there's so many small uh, parcels.  Kirk:  Yeah.  Craig:  Uh, but uh, that's just, that's what we're faced with so we gotta try to get that info in so it can be reviewed. 


Patti:  How long do you think it'll be before we can get the rest of 'em, before they can find the rest of 'em?  Craig:  I'm not sure Kirk's gonna be able to answer that.  Patti:  Ok.  Craig:  Eric's gonna have to deal with that when he gets back.  Patti:  Ok.   Kirk:  I can assist EM with the record plat down at Kena & Pyramid, but uh, that might be the extent of my involvemt with the deed work. 


Patti:  Ok.  So I guess, I don't know when they're gonna be in & it, uno, the sooner we get the rest of 'em in, the better.  But um, uno, I'll see what I can do about gettin' uno some info earlier, uno like if they did get some of 'em done, get that info in.  &, & you would be the person I'd be talking with about 'em?  Kirk:  Probably EM would probably be best.  Patti:  EM, ok.  Craig: Well, if you got - if, if, if our eng'g folks have a ques about some of the descriptions or something, then they should contact you.  Kirk:  That'd be great. 


Patti:  Ok & what is your #?  Kirk:  636-207-0832.  Patti:  & your name again?  Kirk: Kirk Carson.  KT:  Sir, may I ask you again, what, what position are you?  Kirk:  I work for PH Weis & Assoc, the city's eng.  KT:  Ok, ok, Weis, ok.  Patti:  Ok, so if I have ques about any, um some of the deeds that we already have, then I can call you;  but anything that we find, like discrepancies, or, or changes, I would call EM for that?  Like that's what they do, they look at the deeds & then tell us if they're correct & if they cover the whole, the whole um land that we need, the, the, the const zone.  & they'll let us know if there's any gaps & they'll also let us know if, if there's bearings that are off, or distances that are off - Kirk:  I see.  Patti:  & then that, I guess at that time, I would call EM to, to get with him about any changes.  Ok  Alright?  Craig:  Thank you, Patti.  Patti:  Ok.  Craig:  Appreciate your coming in.  (Patti leaves)


5/20/03 Levee IPR - Section  5 of  14


I guess the next items are relocations & utilities on the agenda, most of which we went over in some detail at the last mtg when we had the, some of the utilities in.  & I think we established that on most of these, uh the city has obtained either, uh, AmerenUE has agreed to move their poles &, & relocate in time for our contractor;  or there's agreemts in place with the utilities & the city that if they don't get these relocations completed, before the contract is awarded & the contractor begins work they will coordinate with the, with the COE's contractor. 


The one I'm not certain about is the agreemt, we're still negotiating an agreemt with the Mo Amer Water Co.  They didn't have that agreemt in place at the last mtg.  Uhm, Carol, have you heard of anything at all from anybody?  Carol:  I _ _ been expecting _ _ _ _ _, thinking that Eric may be here & give us the latest uh, status on that because he's the one that does the coordination with the utilities.  Craig:  Right, right, I was just wondering if anybody had given you any info.  Carol:  I sent him an email, asking him um, just um, touching base with him & asking him to um, send any plans that's submitted to him, to have the utilities send us a copy too;  & he hasn't responded to that either. 


Craig:  Uh, we knew it was gonna be tough around this time because we knew he was gonna be gone.  JZ:  Yeah, but he did - Carol:  'cause he asked  -  JZ:  tell 'em that - Craig:  His son is graduating from the naval academy.  JZ:  He, he was at the mtg last night.  He flew in for that & flew back out again today to go back to Annapolis.  & he did mention that he had _ _ _ aware of it & working it, basically, tryin' to get the plans.


Craig:  The uh, I guess the other one that was still somewhat of an issue or however it was gonna be handled was, was the MODOT storm sewer.  Jim, have you heard any more on that?  JZ:  Um, no I haven't.  I think, I think maybe Pat Conroy has talked with the lady from MODOT, but I'm not sure _ _ _Pat _ _ _ -  Craig:  On, on both MODOT & Mo Am Water, at one time, I guess the feeling was that the city was gonna design the plans for that, but I think what we've heard is that the utilities in both cases, were preferring to do their own design, rather than have the city design them.  & so we're relying on them getting that, either getting it done, or getting an agreemt with the city so that it doesn't hold up the award of the contract.  Uh, we're, we're shooting desperately I should, I should say, to try to get this thing awarded this FY because there's, there's no assurance that we would be able to award in the next FY because of funding. 


Carol:  Now, um, last wk, Eric said these 2 utilities were discussed too, & Eric said he would follow up on those, but I haven't heard.  Craig:  Yeah, he was dealing with the, with the Mo Am Water Co & uh, &, & their rep at the last mtg, or 2 mtgs ago, uh when we met in VP.  & uh, & they were looking into some options about uh how much relocation would actually be necessary.  & uh, & so Weis, as I understand it, Weis is not gonna be designing these systems;  they're gonna, they'll work with the utilities that will design their own systems.  Kirk: That's correct.  Craig:  So I guess we don't, aren't  gonna know any, much more than that about these 2 today, till Eric gets back & we know how the, those discussions are uh, proceeding. 


But for the rest of them, things are, looked like they were falling into place, that we either, the city either had letters, uh, which is better than, it's better to have all our work done, but it isn't always possible for everybody to get all this work scheduled.  & since it usually depends on one, in this case, Ameren, where the other, many of the other ones have their equipmt on Ameren's poles, Ameren's gotta go first.  But we did hear from Ameren 2 wks ago that they were moving fwd & they expected to have their,  their work done.  So that was, that was a plus.  Um -


5/20/03 Levee IPR - Section  6 of  14


JZ:  I guess I'd like to hear more about the uh, Weis' design & - Kirk?: that's (sedentary?) - JZ: lift sta & the storm, & the sanitary storm sewers.  Kirk:  I'm still actively working on that.  Craig:  &, & are you dealing, you're dealing with MODOT on that, or is Eric?  JZ:  I'm talkin' about MSD.  Craig:  Oh, ok. 


If you were, you are gonna be workin' on some kind of design with MODOT, but they've indicated they'd rather do that.  Is that correct?  JZ:  No, I mean MODOT.  It's just - Kirk:  I'm, I'm not aware of the, of the work with MODOT _ _.  JZ:  Yeah, I don't think, I mean MODOT is, uno, it's just at Hiway 141.  That's just - Craig:  Right, but there was still some design work to be done there.  Kirk: Now there's some gate, the gate valve to run the water to the det basin - JZ:  I mean that's - Kirk:  that's part of the project.  JZ:  There, there's no, there's no plan for them to do any design work I'm aware of.  They're just approving our plans & providing the um, esmts & things.  I mean is that, Pat, have you talked with MODOT lately?  Pat:  No. 


Kirk:  Now uh, Beverly, or not Beverly  -  JZ:  It was, it must've been Greg that talked to her not too long ago - Kirk:  wanted some uh info regarding how the contractor would approach the work & stuff for them to give their, was it right (someone coughs), contractors Right of Entry that they're - she was askin' me for some info that kind of related to traffic control & stuff like that (someone coughs more).  & uh, I advised that she could contact Greg Bergtolio.  JZ:  I think she has talked to Greg, but - Kirk:  Yeah, & Greg has mentioned that he has spoken with her.  But I know she has some ques before she would give the Right of Entry Permit.  (someone coughs more) 


5/20/03 Levee IPR - Section  7 of  14


Craig:  Um, Pat Conroy has now joined us from our Eng'd Div.  Um, Pat, we were talking about MODOT & Mo Am Water, both of which, Eric was uh gonna be dealing with.  Originally, the city was gonna do more of the work with them, but now they're gonna - it's just a matter of them working out their agreemts.  & uh, also, there was an agreemt with MODOT that was needed either in some sort of a letter or some sort of a permit for us to go ahead &, & be able to uh, certify while they worked out details of any uh, relocation issues.  Uh, you haven't heard any more about any of those?  Pat:  No.  Craig:  Ok. 


I think other than the MSD, almost all the rest of these utilities, I think we had letters from, or the city had letters from, so I think we're moving along pretty well.  Do you have any other ques or issues to raise about?  Pat:  Um, just one minor issue;  Carol, might you be available Thurs, Thurs morning to meet um, with Shelly Morris from AmerenUE & myself?  Carol:  Possibly, let me check & get back with you tomorrow.  Pat:  Ok.  Uno, I like called & left her a msg;  I, I wanted to try & do it as, as quickly as possible.  Carol:  Ok, I might know before I leave today too.  Pat:  Ok. 


JZ:  Is that to go over her plan, or do you know?  Pat:  That was to, at the, at this mtg that we had at the city hall at VP - JZ:  Yeah.  Pat:  She requested that someone - JZ:  take her around.  Pat:  take her around & point out project features especially as they pertain to utility reloactions.  JZ:  Ok.  Craig:  Any other ques or issues that we could deal with, or need to deal with on relocations & utilities at this point?  No, ok. 


5/20/03 Levee IPR - Section  8 of  14


Um, under land acquisition again, without Eric, um, as I recall from the last mtg, he had closed on a # of other tracts.  Um he had 3 or 4, or 4 parcels I think in condemnation which uh, as I understand, that the court has given the approval to appoint the cmsnrs to make the determination of the value for those properties.  &, & I don't know when the cmsnrs will meet or uh, anything about any details of that;  but uh, whenever they do, then they come up with a value & provide that to the city.  & then it's up to the city to pay that amt of money into the court.  Um, so that's the only thing I know.  Does anybody know anything else on that?


JZ:  Well, I mean he talked, he talked a little bit about it last night - Craig:  Oh, he did?  JZ:  at the Levee Cmsn mtg.  Um - MM:  I think he's shootin' for 6/5, isn't he, Jim?  JZ:  He said something about tentative date for a cmsnrs' mtg of 6/5.  Karen, do you remember the cmsn - now, you weren't there at the mtg last night, is that right?  You're gonna be a new member?  KT:  I, I'm sorry I wasn't informed of it & forgot _ _ _ - JZ:  He went thru uh, uno, kind of a list, & some things he's, a lot of things he's, has closed & the other ones that, uno, there, he discussed uh, where we are in some condemnations.


I think he, he mentioned the cotton co uno that the survey - there was a survey that the cotton co wanted as part of the deal.  & uh, they're still discussing the exact way the survey would be certified, the cotton co wants (chuckle).  Ok, so that's out there still.  & he mentioned, uno, the, the Wallace property on Pharoah that he's still trying to track down the, the whole family that's involved in that parcel.  One of 'em is a race car driver.  Um, & he's got one contact & the contact is Gary Wallace, tryin' to help him uh, make contact with the other people that have to sign this, this esmt.  He mentioned uh, uno, Mildred Richardson;  that's the lady who passed away was, he said that uh, that particular action is in probate court. 


5/20/03 Levee IPR - Section  9 of  14


Um, he mentioned that uh, MODOT may, may be inclined to have its, the uh, esmts rather than the Right of Entry.  Craig:  Well, that's what Harry had determined.  Harry had talked to them & his conversation was with the folks out there, that because these are gonna be long-term requiremts, that they would, they would prefer estms as well.  JZ:  & that seems to be the way they're going, at least that's what Eric said last night at the mtg. 


Craig: I, I still would like to see a, what we call a Right of Entry For Const which is a simple one page doc.  We've already provided a sample for the city to use, uh, which basically says for whatever landowner or utility that you're tryin' to work something out with, ok, we'll, we'll settle up on the details, but, but we'll let you on our property to do whatever you need to do, or start to do, so we, so we can certify.  We don't want to have to - uno, if we can't certify ROW, then we can't open bids & then we can't award the contract


So um, all these, these little things need to be (chuckle), they need to be resolved & we're runnin' out of time.  Uh, we, we've made good progress, but there's still a few things that need to be accomplished uh, in order for us to make sure that we - we, we don't have a, we don't wanna have a bust when you advertise the bids;  everybody's bid is exposed & then you can't award.  So uno, you wanna make sure that you got all these things tied up because that's the only way you can advertise & then award, open an award.  & because of the funding with the situation in the Congress & the status of what's goin' on, we're not gonna have too many shots at this.  & uh, the water's gettin' deep, as we've seen in the last mo or so, uh -


JZ:  Oh, we mentioned uh, they mentioned last, mtg last night, that the, that the House, that, that Cgsm Akin has, has requested that the House, they had a capability amt for FY 04 to fully fund uno, but it was our est'd need for the project FY 04.  & they're expecting the Senate to be very supportive.  Craig:  Right, but, but that, that was dependent upon us gettin' our award - JZ:  Right.  Craig:  because the Administration's position was, as I understood it, no new awards next FY.  JZ:  _ _ _ -


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Pat:  Ok, so, so the upshot is you'd, you'd like to have the contractor's Right of Entry from MODOT which is a simpler doc to get - ?:  Yeah, _ _ _, right.  Pat:  & that would allow you to certify the real estate.  Craig:  Right, & then they could work out the details just, just like, uno, we're kind of doin' with some of these other utilities because it's -


Pat:  What's your opinion?  What's it like workin' with MODOT on real estate issues?  Craig:  Well, we haven't had to, we haven't had anything in recent yrs that was all federal.  Pat: _ _um, 'cause it would be the city doin' - wouldn't it be the city doin' most of that work there?  Craig:  Oh yeah! 


We, we've provided that form at, of, of a doc which the city can use or not use, or, or, or draft their own, but, but we've provided a format to Eric um, & uh -


Pat:  Kirk, what's PH Weis' experience with MODOT?  Kirk:  This is uh, a little different than when I've dealt with MODOT in the past.  Uh, most the times we don't have federal grant projects & we have to show that we've met all of our ROW needs there.  Uh, this is the first time I've had to deal with them where I have to get something from them.  So this is a little different than my past negotiations.  Uh, _ they've reviewed, it's been a fairly quick turnaround, but this is a little different.


Craig:  Each one of these utilities, uno, they deal with things a little bit differently;  um, so one size doesn't fit all.  Um, it's just, just need to be constantly meeting what the, whatever their requiremts are, uh to try to put everything together within the, within that timeframe.  So those are, it looks like we got a few items here that need to be addressed.  Wallace, uno, we've heard about Wallace, what Greg Bergtolio said, everybody else seems to pass Wallace on the race track;  well, city can't catch up with 'em.   


KT:  The only dealings I've had with MODOT is they want you to take over their land &, & they don't, they want to wash their hands of it.  They don't want you touching their land;  you need to buy it or take it over from 'em.  They're uh, they've been very uncooperative with me, but I'm just barely starting with 'em too.  Craig:  Yeah, there's a lot of these entities, they, they want uh, everything their way, & the RR's are that way too.  KT:  Right;  the RR's especially, right.  Craig:  &, & it makes it very difficult, but you just have to keep plugging away & eliminating the differences -  KT:  Right, right.  Craig:  until you can finally come to some agreemt that, that we can live with because the city's gotta operate & maintain this once it's built. 


& you have to have a sufficient real estate interest to do that, um, at. at a minimum of cost;  uno, you don't want to maximize the cost.  & of course, all of the federal projects are uh, uno, the, the minimum interest in real estate &, & uh, & the minimum interest to operate & maintain.  Uh, & it's difficult uh, sometimes to, to get to that point because, um, you're dealing with a lot of utilities.  In this case uh, some of 'em don't want to give up their interests &, & uh, & make it very difficult.  RR's are difficult to deal with for the same reason.  That's, that's their land;  they operate a RR;  they don't really care about (laugh) our levee or our whatever.  KT:  Right.  Craig:  I mean that's not their business & I understand that.  Their business is to operate under their utility authorization & they don't like to be interfered with in any way.  & so they don't make it easy for, for us, or, or anybody else uh, to deal with them because we're just, we're just kind of an annoyance to 'em.  We're not helpin' 'em;  they're not benefiting, generally, from these projects like the rest of the cmty is;  & so it makes it difficult.


Pat:  Kirk, tell MODOT that they will benefit.  For one thing, we're going to replace their, we're going to re, re, repair & replace their failing storm drain down there at the end of, uno, at River.  Kirk:  Umhuh.  Pat:  So they'll, they'll get a benefit out of this.  KT:  Yeah, they might cooperate then, if you give 'em anything free.  Kirk:  Yeah.  Pat:  & also, & also, we're gonna provide flood protection to that part of 141 that's uh - KT:  Right.  Pat: north of the Meramec River.  So they, they stand to benefit from this.  Kirk:  Umhuh. 


Craig:  &, & sometimes you need to get more than, uno, 'cause the people that we would, the city or we would be dealing with at any utility, uno, generally, aren't lookin' at the big picture like some of the rest of the, uno, they're lookin' at only their little area of what has to be done & so you need sometimes to, to make sure you get as many folks involved so that they, they recognize it's the big picture & that the cmty & the congressional interests support this project to provide the flood protection for VP.  & uh, it's uh, many of the little individual units, uno, they don't, they don't see it that way because they're lookin' at their own, at their own particular uh function, not at the overall picture. 


But we gotta, we gotta stay on it.  We got about 2 or 3 wks to pull all of this off (chuckle).  Uh, by, by 6/12, we actually have to certify & we were gonna try to do it before then, but I think it's probably gonna be very difficult to do before 6/12, on or by 6/12.  So, we gotta keep the pressure on 'em here to get everything done. 


5/20/03 Levee IPR - Section  11 of  14


Uh, the next 2 items under land acquisition, project feature;  we've been working with the city, with the RR's because uh, these 2 areas are considered project features under our project map relocations, per se;  um, we're bldg a, well, uh, the, they just are! 


& if they're a Project Feature, then they're cost shared uh, on the same basis that the project's cost shared.  If they're considered utility relocations, then the city has to pay for the entire cost, as, as the city would on these items under relocations & utilities, those kind of items;  but under the Project Features, they're cost-shared, so we try to help the city put all that together.


We've had some level of experience at the COE, dealing with RR's, both at, previously in VP & Ste. Genevieve, at St. Peters, bunch of other projects.  & we've come to find that, that they will, that they want uh, RR's want these 3-party agreemts which are the COE, the sponsor, in this case the city, & the RR.  & getting that agreemt signed (laugh) is one of the most difficult things that I've ever been involved in because the RR's are, uno, in many cases they're difficult;  in many cases, they're, you don't, you can't sit down at the table & try to work all these things out.  You're dealing with people in different cities.  Uh, UP, they're headqtrs are in Omaha & they're eng'g people may be in Springfield, & some local.  Uh, BN, in Fort Worth & - JZ:  Kansas City.  Craig: Kansas City & so you try, you try to wrap all that up & it's, it's not easy.


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Um, we, we think we've got it at UP.  As a matter of fact, I sent the 3 copies of the agreemt out yesterday with, with Jim to - JZ:  We gave that last night at the Levee Cmsn mtg, we talked about that.  Craig:  Yeah, & uh, & we & the COE has signed, signed that agreemt.  Uh the city signs & then we send it up to the RR & hope that they don't make any other changes (laugh), um, or want any other additions to it. 


Um, & uh, & BN owes me a response from  Fri when their atty said he would adddress a couple of things we discussed & get back to me early this wk;  & I never heard from him yet.  & I haven't had time to call him, but I will um, because we want to get that one wrapped up as well.  & uh, & then we need to get it;  we need to sign it;  we need to get it to the city for the mayor to sign.  & then we need to get it up to BN to sign it because that's a process too.  


Once it gets up there, it has to go thru their channels.  However, if we know that they have approved it & are gonna sign it, I think we, we'll be in pretty good shape.  But I still need, uh, they were still looking at some eng'g review on the BN side, according to their atty, which I don't understand because we have a letter from the (road or load) master &, uno, saying that he had no problem with, with the uh, with the project.  But that's just part of dealing with the RR.  So uno, it's just been that way no matter what we've done.  Each time we deal with BN, we seem to get a different atty.  They've had 3 different attys now (chuckle).  & they're all, uno, in the same office but they switch it off, hand it off to somebody else & then that person wants something different.  Uh, it's almost astounding;  I guess they all want to put their own stamp on it.  Um, but uh, it's, I think we're gettin' close. 


We've got the draft that UP's said they've agreed to & uh, we hope to get, I hope to get the package off the BN by the end of the wk. 


Pat:  Well, we have a, uno, on BN, we have a, a relatively recent 3-party agreemt, back to Item 4A, the closure structure.  Craig:  Right, right.  & that, that's the inconsistency of it, Pat, is that, that was negotiated with Mary Nan (Grant?), who we dealt with on Ste Genevieve.  We even brought her in from Ft Worth, uh showed her the Valley Park project a few yrs ago, uh, one day, & then took her down to uh Ste Genevieve the next day, & showed her the Ste Genevieve project.  & we got to know her & because we got to know not just the name you're dealing with, we, things worked out pretty well.  We came up to this, this one on 4B, & contacted the RR & I find out that Mary Nan's not assigned to this area any more;  they've got some new atty that they just brought on.  


& so I 've only, uno, it's, it's a name & I've talked to him & I've emailed him & he's been pretty good on emailing things back, but he goes off on, they go off on visits where they have to make certain trips.  & he's gone for 2 or 3 days or maybe even a wk; & uh, & so then you're waitin' for the, for them to respond.  So he promised me Friday that he was gonna look at the items & get back to me early this wk;  um, & hopefully, we can, unless they have another change, we can try to get that one finalized.  we sign it & get it to the city & then we try to move it up to the RR.  You just gotta keep pluggin' away at this myriad of little details that uh, when you're dealing with any of the utilities, you just have to be on top of it all the time, & be ready to deal with it as soon as some, some issue comes up. 


& in, in that regard, I uno, Greg's not here, but Greg Bergtolio has, has done a super job of helping us out.  Uh, I was astounded when we were dealing with UP, & we'd sent 'em the plans, what in Feb I think, early in Fed, about the 3rd or something;  & they were supposed to be having their eng'g review.  & about 1.5 months later, I finally get this guy on the phone because we'd been calling & leaving msgs & I sent emails;  he says, well, he's got the drawings back & the RR's having trouble locating the tracks on the plans (laugh).  Uno, they stand out, I mean I don't know what they were talkin' about!  So I got to Greg that same day & he turned off some of those things on the system, uno, & hi-lighted the RR tracks & the area that we were working on & put it in color, printed it out in color.  & I got 3 copies along with all the other drawings out that same day to this guy, so that they could locate everything that they needed to locate.  I mean it's like, if engs can't locate it;  I'm a real estate person, if their engs can't locate it, what, somethin's goin' on here. 


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The problem with UE is that the guy that's doin' this, it's the first time I think he's ever done it.  The guy we started dealing with, got fired;  uh, summarily, they just, we heard that they just came in & told him to clear out his desk & he was gone.  & this guy took over & he's never done this before & uh, you could tell he wasn't real comfortable doin' it.  Uh, but it looks like we're gonna be pullin' that one off.  & now I'm dealin' with this lawyer who's, the first time he's done it too, so;  I don't know. 


KT:  Now is it my understanding that you have to get their agreemt & everything has to be ok by 6/12 also?  Craig:  Yes, um, &, & we could go ahead &, & uh do what we call a letter, uh, where we do a Risk Assessmt.  & if we feel that things are ready to fall into place, & that there's no major problems out there, we can go ahead & ADVERTISE, BUT we CAN'T OPEN unless we have all these papers in.  KT:  Ok.  Craig:  Including the RR agreemt signed & everything.  KT:  Ok.  Craig:  But, uno, we don't want any, like if we haven't tracked the Wallace's down, I don't think we can open;  if we've got a landowner who hasn't been, uno, they haven't been uh, we don't know whether they're gonna sign or not sign, or just what the deal is.  So we need to wrap some of these things up.  But there is a, what we call a Risk Letter or Risk Assessmt, that we could do, uhm, if we feel like, if everything's up in the RR & the RR said they're gonna sign it, they just haven't gotten around to havin' the person sigin' it. 


This guy, UP couldn't even tell me who was supposed to sign for the RR, because we've always put their names & their titles in;  said, I don't know, just put UP & leave it blank as to what the name is & we'll put the, we'll fill the name in.  He couldn't even tell me who was gonna sign for the RR which is, uno, kind of unusual.  You just figure there's a vice pres or somebody that's assigned to that which is always what we've had in the past.  So that's the kind of stuff you're dealing with on some of it. 


But so we could do this Risk Assessmt if we think that we're that close, but uh, & there's, & there's  reason to believe that  - KT:  Right.  Craig:  it's just a matter of some time;  not, not somebody that's not gonna sign, or that the RR hasn't agreed or something like that.  & the same thing holds true for these utilities.  That's why it's, it's good to get these letters that says if they don't relocate, that they'll be coordinating with our contractor, uh, after the contract would be awarded. 


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Uhm on appraisals, I don't think there's any issues that we know about because Eric & Tim Nelson, our Chief Appraiser, who I told Tim that Eric wasn't gonna be here, so there was really no reason for Tim to, to be here.  Uh, I think they still, the city still owes a few appraisals to uh the city, excuse me, to the COE which have to be then reviewed & approved


& uh, negotiations, I think we've covered negotiations pretty well, have been uh, covered, the deeds, the status of the Condemnations are uh, as I understand, they're all moving fwd for the cmsnrs uh, hearing, or cmsnrs uh, to decide what the value should be.  Um, & then once they come up with that value, the city, if they pay the money in, then can proceed.  EITHER SIDE can still take exceptions & ask for, for, for a court hearing if they're not, not satisfied with the dollar amts.  But all these can still be settled too;  uno, you can settle something at any time.  So the city still has that opportunity. 


Um, Jim, did you have anything else that you wanted to report on  _- JZ:   No, I, I think I went thru the, the ones that I know of that are still not, uno, quite completed & that's about all I need to say on the list that was discussed last night.  Craig:  Anybody else have anything?  Kirk?  Kirk: Knock on wood.  Craig: Pat? Carol? 


KT:  Well, now that I know how to get here & where it is, I'll be here.  Craig:  Well, parking is the biggest problem around here.  (they laugh)  KT:  Well, if I have to pay, it'll - I'll have to pay it.  Craig:  Well, there's not that many places that uno, many times, but uh - Carol:  Just gotta be careful that there's not a uh, ball game.  Craig:  Yeah, that, that makes it almost impossible.  KT: That would make a difference, yeah.  Craig:  Afternoon game, but they don't have that many of them. 


So, ok, anybody else have anything?  Then we will shoot for another mtg next Tues afternoon, 1:00, same time, same place.  KT:  Same time, same place. Tku.