Notes:  Click on Maureen's Nightmare & scroll to 6/3/03 for add'l notes re this mtg which was scheduled for 1 pm.  At about 1:15 pm, being sure the mtg had actually & finally started, I turned on my tape recorder, missing only a few seconds.  Today, unlike the 5/20/03 Levee IPR mtg, no introductions were conducted & no documented mtg agenda was presented.  


On Friday, 6/6/03, 2:44 pm, EM courteously left me a phone msg, stating that, "there are no further IPR mtgs, the internal property review mtgs, scheduled for the month of June by the US Army COE;  & any further mtgs, they indicated, will be announced in July."


Present:  TW;  Carol Kreutzer, COE, in charge of VP utility relocations;  Tom Hewlett, COE, Chief of Real Estate, Division;  EM;  Greg Bertoglio, COE, Civil Design;  Craig Donis, COE, Chief of Real Estate, Acquisition.


6/3/03 Levee IPR - Section 1 of  14


...TW?:  ...original uh description for it in here & down here.   EM:  We'll, we'll talk about that.  TW?:  Ok.  EM:  Craig, here's your stuff.  Craig:  For the RR's?  EM:  Make sure, make sure it's, it's all uh - Craig:  Ok, I'll go thru it in order.  EM:  & the checks 30,000 & then 500. 


6/3/03 Levee IPR - Section 2 of  14


TomH:  Maureen, I don't want you to record anything here today.  This is a very informal mtg & I really don't wanna be recorded.  MM:  Well, Jim Mitas with Cgsm Akin's office checked & he said that it was fine.  TomH:  I don't want to be recorded.  There's no reason to record anything here.  So I'd appreciate it if you would turn your microphone off.  You can take all the notes you want.  I don't need to - this is a very informal mtg we have here.  MM:  Well, that's my problem;  I can't  - TomH:  We're not gonna get anything done with - MM:  I can't hardly take notes.  TomH:  What do you mean you can't take notes?  MM:  I can't hardly write;  I'm getting carpal tunnel or something.  & like I said, Jim Mitas checked with JZ & said that it was fine that I attend & that I use my tape recorder. 


TomH:  UNO WHAT?  IT'S MY MTG!   & nobody even told me you were coming!  MM:  Well, I mean maybe, could you call Jim Mitas & ask him about it?  TomH:  Who is he?  MM:  Jim Mitas with Cgsm Akin's office.  He comes to a lot of the levee meetings.  TomH:  Well, I don't appreciate it;  I really don't!  MM:  I'm sorry, uh -  TomH:  You just come in here;  no one knows you're coming;  I don't know you're coming.  Now you're welcome to be here;  you certainly are.  But it's a little uh, in my opinion, RUDE that you come in here & drop a tape recorder on my desk!  MM:  Well, I'm sorry I don't mean to be rude.  TomH:  It is rude;  it really is!  MM: Well, I'm sorry that I'm rude then.  TomH:  I wouldn't do that to you.  I wouldn't do that to you.  Alright!  Um, I gotta go at 2 today.  Craig:  We only have uh - TomH:  So I just want to go thru our usual agenda &, & get thru this today.


6/3/03 Levee IPR - Section 3 of  14


Craig:  On the utilities, the only questions we had was I think the MO Amer Water Co was designing their own facility;  & I don't know if they've come to the city with their plan yet.  EM:  They have not yet.  Craig:  But uh, but you are working with them &, & I think uh - TW:  We have not received anything either, at this point, but I'm sure that they'll send it to, to Eric.  I would think he's the point on that, so.


EM:  Yeah, I & I, & when I did hand-carry the, the uh, full packet for plans to 'em some time ago;  it'd been about a month ago, uh, & we've been in contact with 'em.  Craig:  Ok, 'cause I know at a couple, uh, the mtg at VP - TW:  city hall.  Craig:  City Hall, that they had a rep there that you were talkin' with.  So we probably need to try to touch bases with them & see where they are.  & make sure that they're, that their plan is acceptable to the city.  TW:  Do you want me to call them or do you want to call 'em, Eric?  EM:  Uhm, you probably have a better rapport, eng to eng, than I do with 'em.  TW:  That's fine;  I'll do it.  I just don't want to step on your toe.  EM:  Yeah, give it a shot.


Craig:  & then if uh, Tom, if you could keep uh, Carol, uh, advised of what you find out.  Carol has taken over as our utilities coordinator for eng'g.  So if there's any eng'g issues that, that need to be reviewed, about their plans & what our project requires, uh, Carol would be the person that would do that.  & then she'll keep the rest of us informed.  Uh, & she'll keep Greg informed 'cause he's our main design person.  TW:  Right. 


6/3/03 Levee IPR - Section  4 of  14


Craig:  Um, the other one was, wasn't MSD designing their own uh - Carol:  Lift sta.  Craig:  lift station?  EM:  I don't believe so.  Uh, we're designing that.  TW:  That's us;  we're working on it.  Craig:  Oh, ok.  So - TW:  Our goal is, again, to have it constructed by the end of the Fall season which is October.   Craig:  Ok.


Carol:  Is Weis doin' it for you?  Or -  TW:  That's me.   Greg?:  That's Eric's  - Carol: _ _ _ - Craig?:  That's Tom Weis.  Greg?:  He, he is Tom Weis.    Carol:  Oh, you're Tom Weis!  Ok, I thought Weis was the eng'g co.  You're an eng?  TW:  City Eng, yes.  Craig?:  Tom Weis, meet Carol.   Carol:  I knew it was Tom.  I knew _ _ _ _ _ _.   TW:  That's me, visitor.  Sometimes it's good to be me & sometimes it's not good to be me.  (they chuckle) Craig:  The other mtgs Carol was at, Kirk from Tom's office, was at - TW:  Kirk is one of our project engs.  Carol:  Now I remember Kirk, but for some reason, I guess from the initial mtg, I thought you were um, the city eng which you are, but you were employed by the city instead of by the eng'g firm.  TW:  No, we're a paid consultant.  Carol: Ok.  TW:  Yeah.  Carol:  Ok, my mistake. 


TW:  Yeah, & that is our responsibility, along with the rock road access to the river property, the River Rd property.  Greg:  extension of the one road down thru there.  TW:  & one thing that we determined thru uh, DC & we're trying to get it clarified thru MSD, thru Jerry Kevney, is that those 3 properties that are down there, they're gonna remain on the river side of the levee, are on septic.  We're tryin' to get MSD to buy into that.  Originally, they didn't think they were & we're tryin' to convince 'em that everybody in the city, including you even talk to the resident, feels he's on a septic. 


EM:  I bet he's not;  I bet there's not enough space down there.  I bet they discharge, discharge right to - TW: _ direct to connect.  EM:  Yeah.  (they chuckle)  TW:  But apparently there's, I mean everbody feels they're spetic so we just need to get MSD to verify that for us;  & that, we're tryin' to do.  If that's the case, then it's our opinion, of course we need your opinion, is that, leave that alone.  That's gonna save a lot of time, effort & money on the city's part because, uno, soon as the first - the other piece of the puzzle is, thru a park grant, the city is tryin' to acquire those pieces of property.  I don't know when that's gonna occur.  I don't think we can wait, obviously, for that.  Um, but, uh, thru Mo Trail & Trail Net, & that whole group there, they're tryin' to acquire those 3 pieces of property with some grant money that they - I don't know the status of that.  But our thinking is, why design a sewer system, do a gravity system, install those pipes in;  the first flood that comes along, those houses are gone, Part 1.  Part 2, we may wind up buyin' 'em anyway before the levee gets done.


EM:  MSD can't MAKE US pay for a levee back there, can they?  TW:  Well, that's why we're tryin' to get with Jerry Kevney & say, uno, this is spetic;  let it run until it - run it's course, until A)  the levee's built;  the houses are uno, 'cause they're on the river side;  they're probably gonna be GONE at the next flood.  Greg:  Yeah, & I'm not sure what MSD's requiremts are & what the state's regulations are.  Carol would know better than I, but I do know that they've got a lot more guidance & rules & regulations that apply to septic systems. 


TW:  &, & from I know, that uno, if you're gonna do any kind of new const or changes - Greg: Right.  TW:  in that area, you're supposed to take - Greg:  Adhere to the new regulations.  TW: someone from septic to - & that's if you're a private resident, uno.  But uh, this is a little different case.  We're tryin' to work with MSD, obviously expense & design time & all that.  So we're trying' to build that, still that central lift sta location to service the other houses that are gonna be on the land side of the, of the levee;  & we certainly know that that is the case. 


Greg:  What's outside, if there's something now - TW:  I'd hate to see - Greg:  they oughta remain that way.  TW:  I'd hate to see us & the city expend a lot of money & time on designing a system for those houses, when in fact, #1, they could be, in the next month, be bought out by the park system.  Apparently, that's very real because Ben Knox, Ben Knox, who is the St. L County Park Director, is promoting this deal, for buyin' those houses to make that a trail.  & they want to connect that river trail;  & I think you're probably privy to that.


EM:  I, I need to get on that;  they want a, an agreemt with the city.  TW:  Ok, well that would help me if I knew that that was gonna happen 'cause then I wouldn't have to worry about MSD AT ALL, if those houses were gonna disappear.  EM:  I'll get on that this wk. 


Greg:  Or if we're makin' no changes to their current system, why do we need to incorporate that?  I mean if they're outside & they stay operational the way they are without us makin' any changes, why should be have to incorporate them into - TW:  There's 2 pieces to the puzzle, but if we, in fact, the park system buys the houses, it all becomes a moot point.  Greg?:  We can proceed - TW:  So that's our biggest, uno, thing, that we can really - the biggest step that we have there.  So that's what we're doin'.  & Kirk's not here, & we've got 2 guys workin' on the road design & lift sta design.  Right now we've got the (saphysical?) surveys complete.  Now we're workin' on the office work, so we're proceeding with that. 


6/3/03 Levee IPR - Section  5 of  14


I guess the other piece of my puzzle is we were going thru & doing some more checks from our standpoint.  & we did find a couple of temp levee pieces that need a temp esmt on the 2 properties.  Elizabeth Tillman, which is a little sliver (he shows a drawing) right there.  EM:  Like 9 sq ft?  TW:  Yeah, it's I mean it's, it's 30 sq ft.  10 x 3 or actually 15 - Greg:  That's 15, yeah.  TW:  15 sq ft.  Greg:  It's over 15.  TomH:  Is that on a piece of property that's already been acquired?  TW:  Yes, an add'l temp esmt, (TSEL or TSCL?)  Greg:  This is down in the uh corner area.  TW:  & then the other piece was the - ?:  vacant tract - TW:  & we've got the legal description for that.  & I'm prepared to hand this over to you today.  Um, we might want to make a copy, so Eric has one, altho I think we fax'd this to you.  EM:  What was the other one? 


6/3/03 Levee IPR - Section  6 of  14


TW:  The other one is for the 2 parcels on MODOT.  EM:  Oh, ok, yeah.  Those are no big deal.  TW:  No, &, & they, they've already indicated that they're aware of it & they're gonna sign off on it.  It's just getting them the - 'cause of these, this thing's changed so many times because MODOT _ _ , uno.   & that's what this is, & that's that little sliver there.  EM:  When I got the call yesterday, on this Tillman, I, I looked her up & she's a non-resident & evidently, it's, it's a vacant piece of property.  She does have a, a St. Louis address.  Uh...(exchange tapes) 


(During this paragraph, they talk at once)...Greg: mean try to eliminate it?   ?:  Yeah.  Craig:  _ _ _ take a look at it.  Let 'em take a look at it when _, & pull it up - TW:  & then this is the other piece that's fine.  Craig: & then we'll go from that.  TW:  hiway problem that was involved -  EM:  I mean this is a lady that we have not even contacted. -  ?: _ _ - EM:  If, if we go from start to finish, man, we're talkin' - Greg:  just take a hard look at that - TW:  time that we thought that - ?:  chances are - TW:  this line went over  - ?:  _ _ _ - Greg:  positive drainage - TW:  Aw, sure.  Greg:  so we don't have any - TW: going thru all the checks.  ?:  Right.  Greg:  eliminated _ _ _  - TW?:  we could make the property _ - Greg: stay off there with that water, then we can do it _ _ - TW:  either way.   EM:  Well, we made a copy of that.  ?: no problem.  Craig:  Just take a look at it & see what  - TW or Greg?:  We'll get back to you on that.  Craig:  You may, uno you find her & she - TW:  The other thing is there's a - Craig: (might not?) have any problem either, so. 


TW:  There's a couple of plat, or there's a city map, it's something else that Kirk gave to uh, gave to uh, Patti -  EM?: Yeah.  TW:  & uh, we're hoping to get that back.  You guys were gonna make some photocopies of that - Greg:  We'll get, we'll get uh, over to that office before you leave here today & we'll, we'll find out.  I, I haven't seen that;  I don't have that map, so if Patti got it, then she - TW:  There was 2 things;  one was the city map & the other was, I got it written down on that sheet of paper.  Greg:  When we get done here, you & I'll walk over;  we'll make sure that she's aware that you need those things. 


TW:  Ok.  TW:  As far as utility & relocations, that's kind of my status. 


6/3/03 Levee IPR - Section  7 of  14


Craig:  Yeah, well, I still  - TomH:  Have we got letters from everybody we need to have letters from?  EM:  No, we don't have letters from uh, SWBT Co.  I talked to uh, Marie Sneedle, is that her name?  Uhm, she's really been cooperative, like really cooperative!  But she said she talked to her supervisor about this letter & 'I'm not signing this letter'. 


Uh, so I said, well, go to your legal counsel & that was just uh, Thurs, she called me, uh, of last wk.  &, & she's had the letter a, a good 30 days, but she, she just indicated that uh, her utility relocations are entirely dependent upon uh, a third party's utility relocations.  _ _ on the - Carol:  Ameren.  Craig:  Yeah, UE's poles.  EM:  & she said they just are reticent to sign any sort of agreemt when their duty is dependent on a third party's.  So I said send it to legal cousel & hopefully we'll get something back on that.


Craig:  Because UE told us that they were gonna be finished before - EM:  They did?  Craig:  I know this first - EM:  Seems hard to believe, doesn't it?  Carol:  Well, I was out there last wk with her & she's been out there many times.  EM:  Oh, really?!  Carol: Several times.  EM:  Oh, good!  Carol:  & we went around & she asked uh, Pat Conroy, uno, she had some questions on some particular locations.  & then they discussed, I guess they've got the different uh, options.  & uh, she had expressed that she'd been out there several times.  Because I asked her, "How can you remember this?  You're not taking any notes."  'Oh, I've already got it documented;  been out here many times.' 


Craig:  So we might be able to point out to SWB, UE didn't have any problem &, & this stuff is mostly on UE's poles (laugh)If they don't have a problem, then why should SWB?  All they're gonna be doin' is puttin' stuff on the, on the poles.  We, we got enough time to do this;  we just wanna make sure that everybody coordinates with the contractor.  & uh, & so that, 'cause we're putting notice in the, in the uh bid package that these utilities still need to be resolved, but they, they need to work with our contractor. 


EM:  Evidently, they're not as flexible as, uno, maybe they've got a real hierarchy there & uh, uh, like I said, she's gonna run it by legal counsel.  Craig:  Ok. But I mean, you can point out to 'em that, uno, if they're on the UE poles, generally, UE doesn't have a problem doin' this.  EM:  Right.  Craig:  & this just helps us with the contract award.  Carol:  Ameren ___ have to coordinate with them also.  Craig: Yeah, Ameren said that they - right.  Carol:  They can't move the poles without notifying them - Criag:  Right.  Carol:  because their utilities are attached -


Craig:  & Ameren told us at the mtg in VP, that they, that they won't coordinate with all these other interests that are on the poles.  But if THEY don't have a problem doin' it, & it's their, they're the primary esmt owner, then I don't know why the rest of these utilities would have any problem, uno, kind of piggybacking on UE.  Greg:  They don't want to commit to something if they don't have the power to move that pole. So they're dependent on UE & if UE gets their stuff done, &  -


EM:  Pretty simple as me faxing over the UE letter to her & - Craig:  &, &/or, uno, it isn't so important that they get it done by a certain date, but that, that they will coordinate with our contractor.  So we can take the date out of it because that was, uno, we'd like to have 'em done before the contract starts.  But that's not the issue;  the issue is we want 'em to coordinate it with our contractor because everything isn't gonna get done till, before the contract's awarded anyway.  So we can take that date out & just say that they will coordinate with the contractor & that serves the same purpose.  So if we give 'em some options, I think they'll sign up on that thing. 


I mean we, we came up with a format, but that format can be changed because what we really want is for everybody to be aware that, to coordinate with the contractor so that we can get this work done probably before he's gonna be able to accomplish too much anyway, we'll have all the utilities done.


6/3/03 Levee IPR - Section  8 of  14


Ok, under RR's, uh, uh, we've got the 2nd RR agreemt signed.  I'll have Tom sign it before he leaves today.  Um, then you brought the checks in for UP & there's, you're, you still need the checks for Burlington, so those are  - EM:  Uh, it seems the other way around.  I brought the checks in for Burlington, isn't it?  Craig:  No, UP.  EM:  Oh, UP.  Craig:  'cause those are the ones that we ordered first.  EM:  Yeah, yeah. 


Craig:  Then there's 3 of 'em that are due on BN.  EM:  Yeah, & I'm, I'm getting a new one on BN.  Craig:  So as soon as we get those - EM: (background) sort of.  Craig:  then we can get, you can let me know & I'll pick those up -  EM:  No problem.  Craig:  where we can get those out & then get these agreemts to the RR for their signature. 


EM:  Oh, did, did, did they agree?  I mean - Craig:  Well, they have so indicated, but then we put the final agreemt together, you never know once you send them a package, if somebody's gonna say, hey, wait a minute, now I want blah, blah, blah.  TW:  With the check - Craig:  But, right, that's why I wanna make sure we get 'em with the checks & uh, but, but they have, uno, given me the indication uh, that, that they were satisfied with the status of the agreemt.  EM:  Good.  Craig:  Um, & then we had to put those exhibits together & get the checks & try to get everything off to 'em, so.  Uh that's what they've indicated;  now hopefully, they haven't uh, you never know with RR's, what (hours?) they have, but they have indicated, up to this point, that they were satisfied & that they were gonna sign the agreemt. 


6/3/03 Levee IPR - Section  9 of  14


Greg:  I wanna throw something out here & see just how flexible we are as a team.  Got review cmts from MSD;  got 'em in this morning & on one of the drawings, they have a note here.  It says, have RR license been acquired?  MSD must be named on license.  License must be reviewed prior to issuance to MSD. - So you & I will need to get together, Craig, after this mtg.  I don't mean to drag it all out here, but this is something that we need to take a look at, ok.  & in the past, I've not been involved with these sorts of things, uh, in the past on this project.  All the drain, storm water drawings & all that have already, uno, they were coordinated thru other firms, &, & handled thru MSD that way.  So this is my first involvemt & that is to try to coordinate a job with MSD.  But this cmt did come back & you & I will need to sit down &, & see what is involved with that & how we can address that quickly.


Craig:  What, what, what most of this covers is, is that we, we have these 3-party agreemts of course with the RR's;  & that means the COE & the city & the RR have an agreemt about what the project's gonna be.  But then our contractor has to sign this Contractor's Right of Entry which is a part of the package, in order for them to get on the RR property to do the work.  & that's where a lot of this stuff comes into.  That's where the, maybe the license will come into work, when we finally have a contractor & the contractor then, uno, is the contractor, instead of just a bidder;  & then the contractor signs a RR Right of Entry, Contractor's Right of Entry, & then meets whatever requiremts the RR might have on the property.  But we'll look into that with MSD. 


Greg:  Yeah, you & I will need to do that.  TW:  Who's the uh, cmts from, MSD?   Greg:  John  - TW:  Polluso.  Greg:  Polluso, yes.  Craig:  You know him?  Greg:  He's the reviewer on this project & I got the reference # if you wanna make a cmt of that permit #.  TW:  It's the P #?  TW?: Yeah.  Greg:  P, uh, 21241-02, that's on Map 26Q.  Uh - Craig:  That might be helpful, Tom, if you could give him a call, if you know him;  & say, what can we do to, what do you need & we're takin' a look at it too.  But, uh, most of these things really come up when, when you have a contractor that would actually sign the  RR's - TW:  Well, if he's just looking for that, then that's a fairly -


Greg:  It should be a thing kind of easy to, to take care of, but along with that, comes the fact that MSD will be responsible for maintaining some of these storm drain systems.  & as that, if this is an area that MSD's got the responsibility for, well then they would need to be named on that permit or license as well to go in & operate that.  TW:  _ _ Right to Entry, just like any other permanent esmt that we give.  Greg:  I just wanted to mention this as we're coverin' it right now. 


TW:  'cause we're doin' that 9th & Vest;  we're doin' a storm water project down there & we're, uno, we're, gotta, tyin' into your det pond & all that.  Uno, obviously they know about that.  We've gone thru the whole review process on that project.  So, they know things are comin' down there.  But he, he's not too unreasonable - John.


Greg:  Oh, no, no, I, I've been thru this a couple times with him already & I think we're real close to being able to wrap up this drawing for MSD's approval with these cmts.  TW:  I don't even know if I need to call him;  that just seems like a formality.  ?:  Ok.  TW:  With me, if there was design issues or something of that nature, I could certainly help out. 


Greg:  I think maybe you & I can get with him so you know what their looking for, Craig, from our side.  Craig:  If we would, &, & you, but it's always helpful if they know somebody - TW:  Sure.  Craig:  & you're the city eng & you say, uno  - TW:  Yeah, if you run into any stick, stickler problems, call me.  Craig:  Ok, we'll do that.  TW:  Try to be, uno, best thing to do a lot of times is, even if it's a real big issue, or something you can't change & they want, go down the street to Market here & go visit with 'em.  Greg:  I hand-carried these to 'em, so it's, that's not a problem, it's, we'll straighten this one out & get whatever they need. 


6/3/03 Levee IPR - Section  10 of  14


Craig:  The, the last issue I had is, is the deeds for review, which I know that Eric &, & uh, Kirk were working on with Patti Fisher from our Eng'g.  TW:  Yeah, we provided the lists - Craig:  & Kirk was working on a list of all the properties because even tho some of, some, some properties may have been acquired in, in the first contract, uh, what we need is, is just a list that says all these parcels are involved. & then we get copies of those deeds to give to the engs to look at to make sure that the minimum interests are covered. TW:  & he's done that.  Craig:  I know Kirk's workin' on that.  TW:  & this is just kind of a revision -


Craig:  The, the real problem here with the City of VP is during the buy-out, some of those properties were picked up by St L County & some properties were picked up by the city over the yrs for tax uh, reasons, or they were abandoned.  & it's, I know it's hard to try to, to find the ownership records for all that stuff & which properties lie within the footprint of the levee.  But that's kind of what we need;  that's what the contractor needs to look at in order to say, ok, we've got everything covered here;  we don't have uh, 30 feet that isn't covered, that could cause a problem.


EM:  I suspect what we're eventually gonna do, 'cause you, he's platted it out on the county maps that show ownership.   &, & we've got it all;  it's PROVING it that's gonna be the tough part!  & it may be we'll end up where the title co has the leading role.  'cause I, all the deeds for the past hundred yrs are stuck in one drawer (chuckle) in the city & it's, it's tough to route thru &, & get anything - 


TW:  Well, yeah;  mainly what Kirk was doin', was makin' sure that all of OUR stuff that we worked on - ?: Yes.  TW:  was sent.  We weren't really focused on the others.  Craig:  When, when Patti met with Kirk, I think he certainly understood that, that we really need to see what's in the footprint of that levee, not just what's been purchase recently because that's all part of the contract.  Our contractor that's reviewing these deeds, doesn't know any of that either.  I mean he's gotta, he's gotta be able to see ALL the prop, uno, all the properties that - TW:  I understand.  Well, like I's, a lot of that, we don't have at our, we have at our office - Craig:  No, but - TW: everything we do, but we don't have (chuckle) the other stuff. 


Craig:  No, no, but you, but you would do the list because you're the, you would show what properties are needed for the contract - TW:  Umhuh.  Craig:  & then the city would be able to say, ok.  Or else get - the title company's probably the best place to go - is to, is to have them show which deeds are involved & what, what are those, until we get the descriptions. 


EM:  I know we're in a different phase now, but uh, once the deeds are available &, & have been surveyed by uh, your, your eng'g co out of Cape, uh, what about ownership?  Do you guys want policies, title policies?  What do you want? - is my point. 


Craig:  Yeah, a list of uh, that the uh, mainly, all the stuff that, that you bought at tax sales & that the city picked up or that the county picked up, in, in the buy-out, you're not gonna have uh, all that stuff.  EM: Ok.  Craig:  You're, your're just gonna have whatever documentation they had.  So all you're gonna be able to submit is what they did. 


But the stuff that you bought, then you would come up with - EM:  Yeah, I've got those.  Craig: _ _ _ _ _  & our Office of Counsel then reviews those docs & then Eng'g reviews the legal descriptions. 


TomH:  Alright.  Do we have a mark on the wall, so to speak, as to when we think we're gonna have all this documentation together?  EM:  Umm, yeah, I, I've been in contact with Patti too &, & we've got a, a date out there.  Uh, I, I been just busy on this stuff.  I & I'm probably the only one at, at this point that, that has an idea of where to pull this stuff from.  Uh, Tom's & Kirk are, are helpin' me quite a bit by uh, what, what they're doing basically, is taking old city plat map & drawing down the levee _ _  -


TomH:  Well, I'm confident that we're gonna have uh everything we need when we need it;  it's just that at some point, we need to be able to describe what we have & - EM:  Yeah.  TomH:  & uno, the - EM:  I've got a list & I know what, what we're doin', &, & I'll get to it probably later this wk. 


6/3/03 Levee IPR - Section  11 of  14


Um, I, I did have a ques on a temp ROW if, if we can - Craig:  That's the only, I don't have any more.  I've covered everything _ _ _.  EM:  A temp esmt.  Uh, &, & here's my problem.  The record owners have a, evidently a Bond for Deed or, or a Contract for Deed with uh, the Wallaces;  the Wallaces are the record owners.  They sold it to uh, uh Phil Rideout, who's, he used to be in the towing business.  He in turn, has sublet the property to the people who bought his business, which is an outfit called D&L Rideout & he runs a salvage yard.  Um, we want a temp const esmt over the property, uh, simply for the purpose of grading. 


Now my problem is, is that uh, well, the, the Contract for Deed has been satisfied;  however, the Wallaces have never done the conveyance.  Evidently it wasn't an escrowed deal uh, where, where it was held by a 3rd party, upon proof of completion, the 3rd party & title co files the, the, the deed.  Um, they actually have to file the deed themselves.  & they're having the same problem I am;  uh, you, you've got these 2 race-car driver prima donnas that uh, are just kind of ignoring their uncle, it looks like.  Um, what do I do?! 


Uh, the, the owner of the property, the equitable owner of the property, uh, Rideout, has said no problems;  & he's agreed to the price we've offered.  Everything else holding the check will be to the Wallaces 'cause they're the legal owner.  Um, it's a partnership.  Craig:  We, we can, uno, we could do a, a Right of Entry for Const & have the equitable owner sign, or anybody, any other parties that want to sign - EM:  That's more like it than Right of Entry.  Craig:  & uh, & I think you've got a format of that.  EM:  I do!   Craig:  Um, but if not, we can provide you one for the city.  EM:  I got it. 


Craig:  & that would be enough for us to go fwd with issuing an Opening because that would be covered, then you settle up with, when you can figure out who, who gets whatever money, then - EM:  Ok, perfect!  Craig:  Then as long as they're willing to sign that, uh,  then we're, we, we can, we can work around that.  ?:  Shouldn't be - Craig:  Right of Entry for Const, it says we'll work out all the details;  you can go ahead &, & uh access my property.  EM:  Ok, great!  Appreciate it.  Greg:  I know our contractor will move those blocks for him too.   EM:  Ok, good.  Greg:  We've already got that spelled out in the Specs.  EM:  Good, um - Greg:  The guy that's workin' that property will have to do this paperwork.


EM:  I guess we're figurin' we're gonna have to take all those damn cars out & have a secure place.  Uh, uh, is that city's responsibility?  How we doin' that?  The, this guy has a salvage lot;  so he's got a hundred cars there.  They go in & out all the time;  people uh, that, that have their cars smashed up, have to have a right to enter to get their belongings out of the car & they're just held for a couple wks until they go over to uh, Napco or whatever it is that, that they - the salvage yard.  Uh, that's, I think, I THINK that's the city's responsibility to reloate those, um, altho it, it'd just be temporarily.  Am, am I wrong on that?


Greg:  That's, I don't know about all that, but let me talk with Pat Conroy on this, & let me look at their property.  Because if things can be worked out to where they would be moved, but still stay on their property & we could move their block wall which forms part of their security perimeter, we may be able to relocate that in such a way that those vehicles -  EM:  Oh, good.  Greg:  I'll have to take a look at the drawings -


EM:  Remember he was even talking about maybe there's a couple tenants in it?  We were out there - Greg:  Yeah, we, we've talked to all those people there.  So I know the area;  I know what we've got as far as work & we'll see what else is left there & what we've got to do to minimize all that there.  EM:  Ok.  Greg:  Drop a couple of those big blocks on a few cars & nobody's gonna take 'em anywhere.  EM:  That's probably true.  Greg:  But yeah, that's, that's a nightmare right over there.  So I'll talk to Pat;  we'll take a hard look at the const sequencing. 


6/3/03 Levee IPR - Section  12 of 14


EM:  Uh, cotton co, I'm still waitin', uhm but we've given them everything;  we gave him the uh, uh, ATLA survey & the ALTA survey;  & uh, I'm just waiting for the deeds.  I think their office is in Cincinnati or Negowas, New Mexico or some place.  TW:  & we have to change the title.  EM: Yeah, um, other than that, it's just the 4 in condemnation that uh, I can think of, uh, other than this one that uh, just cropped up;  this one that uh, Greg said he'd take a look at. 


6/3/03 Levee IPR - Section  13 of  14


TomH:  & your Condemnation activity just uh, marches on!  Is that it?  EM:  It does!  Craig?:  Ok, I don't have anything else.  TW:  Did you make an extra copy for Greg?  TomH:  Who gets these?  You get one?  EM:  I, I get, I need one & - TW:  Well, yours, should have yours at the office, Eric.  EM:  I don't really need one.  TW:  You can have some (laugh);  I'm just sayin' there should be one in your office.


TomH:  Mrs. Morris, I gotta ask you, uh, I, I really uh, uno, this, these, these mtgs, we've been having 'em for some time now, uh, to deal with uh, utility relocations & ROW acquisition.  & uh, there are a lot of people involved in this whole process to make sure we stay on track 'cause we, we wanna see this project go fwd.  Umm, so these, these mtgs have been very productive because they're informal & we don't uh, we dont, you're, you're the first time, first time we've had a microphone in one of these mtgs.  So to see a microphone kind of uh, uhm, upsets my apple cart a little bit because these are very informal mtgs.  & there's no, there are no secrets here.  Uh -


MM:  Well, Tom, I don't understand why you should object to it then.  TomH:  I, I just uh, well - MM:  I'm sorry it makes you uncomfortable.  TomH:  I, I, I would've, if, if I, I would, I guess I would've appreciated if somebody, if you would've said to me, do you MIND if I record this.  MM:  I'm sorry.  TomH:  I have, I've had that happen to me many times.  That's the first time somebody's ever just come in & laid one down (he bangs something down on the table) on the table & started it up. 


MM:  I apologize sincerely;  I'm very sorry for not asking.  TomH:  Now let me ask you a question.  Uh, obviously, uno that your property's involved in this whole process.  What is, what is your reason for even being here? 


MM:  Just to keep aware of what's goin' on.  & I have a website, MOPR.ORG, & I transcribe the tapes & put 'em up on the site so that everybody can see how the taxpayers' dollars are being spent.  TomH:  I see.  Don't, aren't there uh regular mtgs, regular public mtgs that - MM:  There are Levee Cmsn mtgs;  I put those up there too.  TomH:  Yeah, ok. 


MM:  I'm really sorry it makes you so uncomfortable.  TomH:  It, it just, it just uh, it's, it's, I don't know if it's _ _ uncomfortable, or just a matter of courtesy.  MM:  I'm sorry I didn't ask about taping it. TomH:  Yeah, really!  MM: I'm sorry.  TomH:  I mean (sigh)!


MM:  Would it be alright if I tape the rest of them?  TomH:  I don't care, really, uh, if you do.  MM:  Tku;  I'm sorry.  TomH:  Yeah.  So, so your purpose is to attend every mtg!?  MM:  As much as I can.  TomH:  that has anything to do with this VP project?  MM:  Oh, there have been a lot of mtgs I haven't been able to make & some I haven't been aware of;  but I do the best I can.  TomH:  I mean is there something, are you opposed to this project or something?  Is that why you do this or what?


 MM:  I don't care to get into that end of it right now;  we are in litigation.  TomH:  Yeah, I'm, I'm just curious.  I mean usually when - MM:  Well, I'm sure EM can fill you in on all the details.  TomH:  I mean I'm just curious.  I mean usually when somebody goes to these extremes, they're usu, they usually have a motive for doing it.  I'm just curious what it would be.  MM:  I want people to be aware of how the levee project's going.  TomH:  Ok. 


Greg:  & I don't believe that it's to portray everything in a favorable light.  TomH:  Well, that could be.  I, I'm - Greg:  That's, that's me.  TomH:  I'm just interested - Greg:  I'm on record;  I'm being taped & I"ll stand by it. 


TomH:  I mean I've, I've been, I've been Chairman of P&Z Cmsn & I've had standing room only in court rooms & I've had to get out in the middle of folks &, & either say, uno, either settle down, or we'll call the police!  So I'm, I don't - 


MM:  Well, I'm way out of my realm here & - TomH:  This, this - MM:  I'm in way over my head;  & I'm just doing the best I can.  TomH:  This is minor as far as I'm concerned, but uh, I guess my point is, uh there are a  lot of good folks who're really just trying to move this project along;  & there are a lot of details & a lot of issues that have to be resolved;  & a lot of players!  & we only have these mtgs to uh, to try to facilitate that process.


Uh, I was just curious why you would be so interested in attending a mtg like this.  I guess I still haven't heard what, why you're so interested in attending a mtg like this.  MM:  I've told you why;  I don't know what else to say.  TomH:  Well, you're welcome to come to (pause)  MM:  Tku & thank you for letting me tape the rest of 'em.  TomH:  any others that we have.


6/3/03 Levee IPR - Section  14 of  14


Craig:  One thing I'll throw out is that we talked about this, this possible solution to the Wallace property, this Right of Entry for Const.  That, that instrumt can be used for any of these other properties that are in Condemnation too.  & uno, the Cmsnrs can meet & decide the $ amts & the city can pay that amt in;  doesn't preclude the landowners from signing that Right of Entry for Const that says ok, we'll let the process work & we'll sign off & this, & this project can move fwd.  So uno, you or any of these other landowners can do the same thing & keep this project moving.  So it's not just exclusive to the Wallace property.


EM:  Sure. That might be a resounding uh, uh, affirmation of, of what they've said in the past, in that it's not about the money.  Craig:  So, so that's, that, that same instrumt can be used to, to keep everything moving & uh, & the COE can still, the process can surely go fwd uh, &, uh, &, & the city can hopefully, we can provide that levee protection before there's a disasterous flood out there again.  That's all;  I don't have anything else.


EM:  You wanna sign one of those, Maureen?  MM:  I'll ask my lawyer about it.  ?: Ok!  MM:  Tku. 


TomH:  Alright;  I really appreciate you, I  -  TomH or EM?:  She's movin' us along, fwd.  Greg:  You talk about movin' it along; (TomH laughs) you've got the time to catch your breath even!  TomH:  I really do appreciate it.  I've got uh - MM:  Tku (to Craig) & again, I'm sorry.  TomH:  real estate bag I gotta take care of this afternoon (laughing).  EM?: Good to see ya again.  Greg: (laughs)  How appropriate, huh?! (TomH is still laughing.) 


Greg:  We still on for, uh, Thurs?  EM: You bet!  Bells on!  Greg:  Ok, ok. (The mtg ended at about 1:50 pm.)