MOPR Notes:  Mtg from 5:15 to 6:25 pm.


Present:  JLB, JKB, DS till 5:55, DC, BW, EM, CLM, Jim Probert, JZ, Paul Spotanski of PH Weis,

DM, KT, JW, TB.  


Also: Jim Mitas (till 5:55) of Cgsm Akin's office;  JEM;  ES;  Andy McCord of DG Purdy; & Vivian Blackman, VP Citizen/Business Owner.


2/17/04 LEV - Section  1 of  21


DC: ...this mtg to order at about 5:15.  (roll call, see above)  Anybody have any additions or deletions to the agenda?  JZ:  Yeah, I think we oughta add a 7D, which would be the fed & sponsor funding for FY 05.  DC:  Ok, 7D.  You want me to include that on the agenda for every uh - JZ:  Yeah, I think that'd be a good idea;  it wouldn't hurt.  DC:  Ok.  JZ:  Add to next yr.  DC: Ok.  JLB: Arnold's Dr.  DC: Huh?  JLB: Arnold's Dr.  DC:  Ok, uhhh let's uh put that under Item 4B Update, one.  Any other additions er ok.   I need a motion to approve the agenda.  DS:  So moved.  ?: 2nd.  DC: I have a motion to approve & a 2nd agenda for tonight.  All in favor?  (ayes are heard)  Ayes have it. 


Uh, I have here approve the mins for 11/17 & 11/15{sic};  they were in your packet & everything.  So need a motion to approve - you got 'em for 1/20?  No?  EM:  Uh there's really no mins for that because there wasn't a mtg!  DC: No, there wasn't a mtg;  that's right.  Ok.  Ok, I have a motion, a 2nd on the - ?: 2nd.  DC: approve the mins for 11/17 & 12/15.  ?: 2nd.  DC:  I have a motion & a 2nd to approve mins, uh, all in favor? (ayes are heard)  Ok, discussion items for these mtg - Item 4B.  Who wants to start?  Jim, start. 


2/17/04 LEV - Section  2 of  21


JZ:  I'll go ahead & start if you don't mind. CLM: Volunteer Jim.  DC: Well, go ahead.  Huh? CLM: Volunteer Jim.  DC:  Yeah.  JZ:  Uh, Mayor, Can I have one of those pictures back?  Just - I was gonna pass these around.  Um, you probably remember from last mtg that we had planned & a lot of you participated actually, uh a briefing & a tour for um Gen Don Riley who is the Commander of our Mississippi Valley Div of the COE.  & that happened on 1/28 & uno, I just thought the tour was extremely well done.  & uh all the people who participated from VP - I think basically, that Gen Riley knows everything about the project uno including problems & uh flood threat & progress on const & the need for money;  & he has a complete understanding of the situation which has to be good. 


Uh so that picture was taken on the 20 - I'm gonna pass these around so you can flip thru 'em - on 1/28.  Then the next day uh Pat Conroy, our Geotech, came out & got a bunch of pictures of the uh demolition of the g/p into blocks of concrete, sections of concrete as I pass out.  This is uh just a couple days, just yesterday they took this picture just showing how the g/p is disappearing with all the machinery working on it.  Um they load the concrete & brick into big trucks & take it over to a crusher.


The crusher's uh operational & it's crushing this g/p into material that's uh suitable for bldg the eng'd fill.  & there's some bunch of pictures of the crusher.  He actually takes movies of it which are really fun to watch on digital movies.  Uh but then this is the uh kind of the end product with a hard hat sitting next to it so you get an idea of the size of it, rock & all the fines that are available, it's for, for the use of it.  & this is uh a blender which will eventually be used to blend the 3 components together;  the g/p materials, uh slag & cinders, & the um, um Absorbent Cotton material.  So there's 3 hoppers there that will be used & that's just a close-up of thatAnyway, I'm passing those around to the people to take a look at. 


I think the main point is that the contractor is making I think extremely good progress uh considering the time of yr, uno & the cold weather we've had the last few wks.  Um & far as I can tell, there's no, there's no slow down plans;  it's just gonna be speed up, unoDC: Right.  JZ: Um, so that's a really positive thing.  


2/17/04 LEV - Section  3 of  21



Um we have, we have some uh issues to deal with with the contract, uno with, with the relocations & uno we're working together with the city to do this.  Um & one of the things that's uh has to do with AL.  & I'd asked um Eric & TW & Dave to try to map out a, a schedule because um the contractor is saying that he needs to have access to use AL by 3/15 or he's gonna start incurring delays & uno extra costs. 


Uno, we had already modified the contract to, to say that he couldn't get in there until 2/1 & now we're past that & uno he's saying 3/15 is the, is the deadline or he's gonna start incurring costs.  & uno he can pass those on to the - make his case that they should be passed on to the COE & to the contract. 


So I'm, I'm looking for um an update on when the houses are gonna be torn down & removed &, & I know that that's under contract.  So I'm just looking for an update on that & when the MSD lift sta is gonna be uh able to be turned off &, & the power poles that go to the lift sta, the electric power poles uh removed which go right, right thru the uh the area where the eng'd fill is, is to be const'd in, in AL.  


Uh & his letter mentions water, but I'm not sure what the status of uh MO American Water Co uh relocations are, abandonmt of the pipes.  So that's, that's something I want maybe to, to Dave & others to um talk about. 


2/17/04 LEV - Section  4 of  21

Beckett Plaza


Um he also - I sent a copy of this to the mayor as well as uh other, to the city eng & city atty - the contractor has uh talked about the potential for a, well, a, a differing site condition if the point where the - for the pipe that we're gonna take that ties into a 40" pipe that runs along the west side of Hwy 141, we're gonna take it, we're gonna put a junction box in that &, & be able to turn water off there & take it over to the Fishpot Creek Det Area. 


Uh that pipe, uh there's some MSD um sanitary manholes that are in the way a little bit of that pipe.  So they have to be relocated & that, that I can, we can talk about, but that's something that um I think the plan right now is for the COE to develop...(exchange tapes)...JZ:...that was part of a mod to the contract.  So I've talked to Eric about that.  It'll probably be handled as a, as a relocation & the COE, the city would pay for that particular mod & some of the design & const mgmt that goes with it.  So -


CLM:  Jim, Were those manholes not shown on the as-built _ _ - Paul:  No, they're there.  JZ:  Yeah, they're there.  Paul: They're there.  JZ:  They show up as being there on the uh, I think on the uh - DC:  On the utility drawings;  they're there.  But see, they didn't know how deep they were until they, they got into it.  & now with, with the pipe & they're puttin' the pipe in there that the 54" pipe is going to be, is going to obstruct & they're gonna have to move 'em around & relocate 'em in order to miss the pipe.  They're gonna move 'em further I think to the east in the pkg lot.  They come out right at Cheers & then go back into the pkg lot like this.  & what they're gonna do, they're gonna move, leave the one here, but move the other one up so the fif - it won't be go und - uh sittin' on top of the 54" pipe.  By movin' it some feet up, it'll be over the top of the 54" pipe & they'll be able to keep goin' the same way out. 


JEM: This situation with the 54" pipe is right underneath the manhole so we can't put it in without takin' 'em out.  The manhole's there, you were there, but you can't put pipe underneath the manhole.  DC:  Right.  So they're, they gotta move 'em around.  EM:  & the thought is too that we won't need add'l ROW;  it, it, it'll fit perfect, pretty squarely & - JZ:  Right.  EM:  the existing pipe _ _ _ _ - JZ:  Right.  ?: _ _ _ -  JZ:  It, it's just something that I'm just tellin' you about.  We have, we have things to deal with. 


EM:  We're looking at what it costs & it'll be $15-30,000.  JZ:  Yeah, I don't, I don't know;  I don't have a handle on that, but maybe, maybe they've discussed the cost in your mtgs with _ - EM:  talked to Tom about -


2/17/04 LEV - Section  5 of  21



DM:  Jim, Did you say we need to have the lift sta in by 3/15?  Or just - JZ: Well, What we, what we really need is um is the existing lift sta, uno have power cut off to that &, & that uh uno the, I guess Paul might talk about it if you want.  Paul:  Yeah.  JZ:  We, we talked about a potential uh 2-step relocation of the lift sta.  One is uh, uh a quick relocation & then another which would involve putting, using a manhole over by the 4 commercial bldgs along uh the north part of AL.  Paul:  Yeah.  JZ:  & uh & then uh when, when that temp solution goes in place, they can cut off the electricity to the existing lift sta & remove the power poles, which is what we're looking for.  EM?: Sure.  JZ:  & then uh - Paul:  Well, MSD is wanting a full-blown lift sta.  DM:  Right, you were sayin', yeah Paul & I were talking about that earlier. 


EM:  Can we back up just a little bit just for the cmte.  Originally, we were told by MSD that the lift sta only served the residences in Arnold's Dr.  Paul:  Correct.  EM:  Before we went out there to abandon the line, they actually did testing & it was determined, well, that's not right.  MSD really didn't know what service was coming in off that lift sta.  Now we've determined that this lift sta also serves these 4 commercial places out there.  Once we get rid of the lift sta, they've got no place to dump their sewage.  So the issue is, when we can abandon that lift sta, we're on the dime now because we gotta do it by 3/15.  We've gotta figure out an interim because there's no way this lift sta can be built by 3/15. 


DM: That's what I was leading up to.  EM:  It's impossible.  Paul:  Yeah, MSD can't move that fast on just review!  EM:  So that's where we are.  Paul:  Yeah.  CLM:  MSD have an alternative solution?  EM:  I think Joe does.  Paul:  Uh, we do.  Mitas:  Uno you put in an ultra-light, put a temp pump in.  Paul: Yeah, & then the - Mitas: They do that all the time when they have a sewer break;  put a temp pump in.  


JZ:  Yeah, & MSD suggested the same thing uno to our people.  CLM:  Well, then we put a temp one in;  that's what I mean.  JZ:  Well, I mean when you get Jerry Keveny, uno (chuckle) - Paul: _ _ _ - JZ:  had, had suggested that to our people - Paul: _ temp _ _ - JZ: put a pump in with a manhole with somethin' there, then that pump is tied to the electricity & it pumps into the existing commer,  _4" uh force main.    So that's what we're looking for.  We're looking for a plan that has a temp & then a permanent uno. 


EM: There, there was another (chuckle)  temp that that was TOTALLY unacceptable & that was leave the lift sta there;  contractor really CAN'T work around it & it was 50,000 bucks! to bring in temp electricity in because you - JZ?:  Yeah, up by the RR - EM:  go around _ - ?: 2, 2 of 'em.  EM:  That, that was like insane.  So that's what we're, we're looking at. 


JZ:  So we'll be working with you & uh & the city;  if not sooner, we'll be talking to you Thursday again about this;  the Federal uh Coordination mtg.  Paul: Umhuh.  JZ: You, you have a, well, you have a letter here that you're considering.  But uh, have you coordinated with MSD about this temp plan?  Paul:  A little bit we talked to 'em about just settin' a pump in there & pumpin' up to that manhole.  & they weren't real receptive to that idea. 


JZ:  I think we're probably dealing with different people at MSD & we just have to find - BW: Find the right person.  Paul:  I mean we're dealin' with Morris Wright, Dave St. Pierre, uh Paul Petrovich;  those are the people we're dealin' with.  EM:  They're basically in Planning & - Paul:  Oh, Dave St Pierre is Dir of Ops.  EM:  Kaveny would be Maintenance I suspect.  Paul:  & Morris Wright comes out of this station down here so I think who is Keveny's boss.  EM:  Well, I'm not sure how they - Paul:  How that - yeah, but we have the powers-to-be & then the final decision goes to Dave St Pierre & this letter - matter of fact, the response in there was the one that was from Morris Wright to (Ballwin?) Dave St Pierre & Mike Bogart who's head of the Eng'g Dept.  Um, that's pretty much their standing on this whole situation now. 


JZ:  So what is their standing?  I guess I haven't read it yet.  Have they taken a position?  Paul:  Umhuh, they want a full-blown lift sta.  JZ:  They don't want the temp solution?  Paul:  From what we've been getting from 'em, no. 


2/17/04 LEV - Section  6  of  21



BW:  What detrimental effect is the contractor gonna have exactly by not being into AL at the time they want to?  JZ: Uh - BW: _ _ talkin about _ - DC:  Well, the thing of it is that he's holdin' - would be holdin' him up is because of the fact he wants to get in there & tear the foundations & get all that, all the material outta there - JZ: He wants to start uno, bldg the eng'd fill in AL - DC: so he can put it thru the grinder & crusher.  JZ:  I, I can't -  I don't know what his position is gonna be.  Uno, I don't know what he might plan.  DC:  It may not be 3/15 if we run into some bad weather & he doesn't get to uh do what he wants to do.  


BW:  Does he have alternatives for uno if, like to do something else in the interim?  JZ:  He has to basically show his case, but on uno on the other hand, right now, the contract reads that he has access on 2/1.  Uno so - CLM:  The gov't is gonna have a pretty weak position.  JZ:  Uh uno, it, it could turn out to be a bad scene really, but we don't know yet (chuckle). 


BW:  & we have no idea what kind of more cost the contractor's gonna incur by - JZ:  No, he would have to, he would have to describe &, & justify any cost, but they're pretty - BW: But we have no idea at that time?  JZ:  No, we have no idea right now;  we have no idea.  CLM:  We want to avoid _ _ - JZ:  Yeah, we'd like to avoid that very much because uno they CAN, they can claim all kinds of things.  BW: Oh, yeah!  JZ:  & it could be, uno it can get, it can get expensive. I'm not sure how this contractor's gonna operate, but it coud be a problem. 


2/17/04 LEV - Section  7 of  21



DC:  Joe, You wanna add somethin' to this, maybe somethin' - JEM:  You asked what the status was on AL - JZ:  Right.  JEM: demolition of houses - I spoke with the demo contractor today.  They've got some of their uh ACM testing back;  it's comin' back, it sounds good.  They stated that they have a couple of more tests that need to come back.  They  expect 'em back within a day or 2.  Uh after that comes back, then we have to know whether there's ACM to deal with.  Uh if there's not, they anticipate going down there in one day, digging up all the sewers & how we'd just be abandoning all the sewer mains, sewer connections & latterals.  They'll be able to then get their uh Waste Hauling Permit from St L County & we'll proceed within a day or 2 to get all their demo permits & I'm anticipating they're gonna have those houses down & gone in very short order.


Water's already disconnected.  The water main on Arnold's Dr will not be abandoned by St L County or excuse me, MO American Water Co until the houses are gone because they have to provide a fire hydrant for our protection by state law.  JZ:  Ok. 


JEM: The gas main is abandoned & removed, but I have not gotten documentation of that yet, tho they were down there doing it & all the electric - DC?: _ - JEM: (has been or is being?) disconnected from the houses.  DC:  & we, we've let the contractor know that the electric is going to be left on & he'll have to work around that.  JEM:  The demo contractor.  DC:  The demo contractor;  he'll have to work around that while he's - JZ:  Going to the lift sta?  DC: Right, he'll have to leave that in & he'll have to work & be sure that he isn't hittin' that 2-phase with any equipmt or anything when he's movin' around them houses.  JZ: So you think it's gonna be done before 3/15?  JEM:  The houses will be gone before 3/15. 


DC: Oh yeah. JEM: That's not a problem.  What I see as the problem right now is MSD's figures.  DC:  That's uno, that's gonna be the biggest hold-up I think until we can resolve this lift sta problem & get it worked out.  I mean that's - JEM: The contractor will be able to get in there & pull the concrete, grind concrete & do everything but have access to that lift sta.  DC: Right.  EM: (chuckling in the background) Yeah!  That's a great idea.  JZ: But he can't work around the power poles very well either;  you go, go into ballistics.  DC: Right.  JEM: He may not have free reign, but he would have, have access to concrete materials he wants to grind.


2/17/04 LEV - Section  8 of  21



EM:  One, one further thing that I, I don't know that we've talked about is, is the cost difference between what the city wants to do & what MSD WANTS us to do is a minimum of $100,000.  So there's some real bucks.  If we put in a full-blown lift sta, it's got telemetry & perm wells &, & duplicating pumps & all kinds of stuff - it's probably what $130, 140,000?  Paul:  Yeah.  EM: We can build a, a 2-hp grinder pump for somewhere around 30-40 we believe.  Paul: Umhuh. 


EM:  So it's actually $100,000 out of our pocket uh that we're going to _ _.  & I mean that collectively.  Paul:  Yes.  EM:  The, the city & the TIF District.  KT:  & is that just for the 4 - DC: Businesses.  KT: bldgs?  EM:  Yes, maam.  KT:  That may not be there for 5 yrs?  EM:  No!  You're right!  Paul:  Umhum.  ?: We're not, I mean that's part of (redevelopmt?) - Paul: Umhum.  KT: Oh yeah, some unknown _ _ _ _.  


2/17/04 LEV - Section  9 of  21



JEM:  MSD won't (improve or include?) _ private pump _.  JZ:  They haven't yet.  Paul: Nope, they want individual fuel grinders & they're gonna want the city to install a grinder pump on each of those __.  ?: _ _ - ?: _ _ - KT: _ _ _ - Paul:  That would cause I'd say a lot of headaches.  ?: _ _ -


CLM:  What's the basis of their saying they want individual grinder pumps?   Paul:  Doesn't follow their codes & uh if they bend on this, then they're settin' a precedence.  CLM:  Is their code that rigid tho?  There's no leeway or - JZ:  I guess they want some, some individual to be responsible for each grinder pump.  Paul:  Umhum, right, yeah, each property owner would be responsible for their own grinder pump which then you're gonna get involved with the owners of the property or the businesses sayin', NO!  CLM:  Yeah.  Paul: Now you're up & gonna incur add'l electric costs, da, da, da, da - it just keeps domino. 


EM: Sure, maint costs.  Paul:  Yeah, everything!  CLM:  I thought I heard what you said while ago that one fella at MSD had APPROVED the grinders with, without the pump.  JZ:  Actually, I don't know if it's a grinder pump or not.  Jerry Keveny had the idea that like you said, that you could, as a TEMP solution, not, not the perm, just temp - CLM:  Which is all we wanna do.  JZ:  some kind of a pump;  I don't know if it's a grinder pump or what it is.  Is it a grinder pump?  CLM:  Was he talkin' about one for each - JZ:  A 2-hp pump that pumps sewage out of a sump into a 4" force grinder that's right, right in the same area. 


CLM: Was he talking about one for each member or just - JZ:  No, just one because those, a few things, the pipes come together where you can collect this in one place & temp'ly pump it into their - Paul:  & unfortunately, when we met, it wasn't with Jerry Keveny, it was - I try to get the powers-to-be, who make the final decisions uno;  & this is what they've come up with was we want the full-blown system.  Now even with Paul Petrovich down there at MSD, he was thinkin' uno low-pressure forced main system would be ideal for this situation, but they don't even want to do that!  Now as a temp, uh we can reenerate that with them, say you guys, uno while we hash this out, why can't we just put a grinder pump down there & pump it up to the manhole along 141.


CLM:  What period of time are we talking about?  30, 60 days?  Paul:  I'm thinkin' probably 30 days & then, maximum, because they make these systems uno uh like a package deal.  They can come in once we give 'em the design criteria - it's kind of like a design-build.  CLM:  No, I'm sorry, how long a period would we be depending upon the temp system?  JZ:  He said about 30 days, right?  Paul:  Oh, that's a good ques. It depends on how long we keep battling with MSD.  Uno, if MSD keeps sayin', hey, we want a full-blown system - CLM:  No, I mean assuming -


JZ:  Assuming they DO want a full-blown system.  CLM:  Whatever we put in, short of the perm lift sta - Paul:  Yeah.  CLM:  how long will we be dependent upon that temp solution until the proper lift sta gets built?  Paul: God!  CLM:  Just ballpark.  Paul:  Let's say if they want the perm, they're system, it could be 60 days, 90 days.  CLM:  Well, that's what I thought.  That's why I think we have a very good basis for takin' the position;  that it's not realistic, but if that system is something as extreme as that for a temp - I mean a REALLY temp fix, one that's an interim fix - Paul: Umhum.  CLM: which may be 8 or 9 mos or a yr, but a very short period. 


Paul:  Umhum.  CLM:  There, there's got to be some leeway, Jim, someone at MSD that they can interpret that code uh reforming or whatever it is.  Paul:  Umhum.  That's what - CLM:  It, it probably was designed for a semi-perm solution possibly in uno a very short _ - Paul:  Well, see they don't deal with uh 1, 2, uno like in our situation, 4 residents.  The pump stations that they deal with is like Kena Rd where you've got massive flow & they really don't know how to interpret between everything & a very small amt.  ?: Right.  Paul:  It's all or nothin' with them.


KT:  Being that's a small amt, can't you temp'ly, for a lot less money, tap into the existing lines with the other businesses in order to um meet the deadline &, & have time to decide whether you're going to put a uno - Paul:  Yeah, we can still do it like a temp;  pump it out of the manhole, pump it up to the manhole along 141.  KT:  Wouldn't that be a WHOLE LOT less money than your $100,000?  Paul: Well, that's just a temp.  KT:  Yeah, that's what I mean.  That would take care of it until you - Paul:  Well, we're still back to the issue with the city. Do - uno for the temp for const, it'd be fine;  but then we're back to the with the city issue uno $135,000 or vs 35,000.  KT:  Umhum.  Paul:  Uno, so we're kind of battling both sides, uno the temp & the perm. 


CLM:  In what part of MSD does this authority lie, eng'g?  Paul: Yeah & apparently Dave St Pierre is the guy that makes the final call.  CLM:  Is he the guy that replaced Bob Butchfield down there?  Paul:  I believe so.  Yeah, he got moved up to, what's his official title now, Interim Op'l Mgr of MSD.  CLM:  _ need to talk _ _ _.  Paul: Umhum.  BW:  It sounds like you're only out;  _ _ have too have many choices here. 


CLM: _ _ I mean uno, I can't see them - a system of rigid code _ substitution for something this short of an interim, except for more money.  ?:  Yeah.  CLM: I mean they wouldn't do it themselves if they had to do it.  BW:  No.  Paul:  Oh no!  Well, there's always 2 sets of rules with them.  CLM:  We'll just go operate on the rules as they use for themselves.  (BW laughs) 


Paul:  Umhum & we're even tryin' to say here, the city will maintain this lift sta;  uno, you guys don't worry about it.  BW:  The temp or the perm?  Paul:  Perm one too.  This saves the city a hundred plus thousand $ if you guys give us permission to tap into this manhole 200 feet away.  BW: Sounds like a no brainer to me.  Paul:  Yeah (laughs heartily).


2/17/04 LEV - Section  10 of  21



JEM:  Paul, How do they handle - how do they handle a lift sta (someone coughs) _ _ _ _that taps into their manhole _ _ _ part of the main?  They've heard those all day long.  Paul:  From the uh - JEM: grinder pump.  Paul:  That's under a house connection which I don't really, really review.  JEM: So aren't, couldn't you just make it a house connect to pump our driving pump there?  Paul:  With that, I'm not sure.  I mean I'd like to handle this under a house connection 'cause then you don't have any eng'g or plans or anything to submit.  JEM: Right.  If you follow our - Paul: Yeah - JEM: _ discharged it, 2" discharge from that pump - Paul:  Umhum.  JEM: _ prospects of their system, everything else is our system.   JEM?:  Well, I don't know if we'd want that. 


BW:  Could we do that as an interim?  Put individual on each business?  Paul:  Just more cost the city's gonna have to occur & then negotiate with the property owners for maint, add'l electric uses & (show tho that you have?).  BW:  If MSD is hard-nosed about - I'll go lone sta or nothin', that may be an easier way to go.  Paul: That's why I still need to talk to Barrett about uno - EM:  It may not be much of a savings if there's grinder pumps on each one, maybe uh 15, 20,000 bucks a pop or 30,000.   I don't know;  I know Tom's thrown out some prices that were awfully expensive.  Paul:  Umhum. 


CLM:  How many of those were needed for businesses, probably be comparable to a private drilling, a private drilling _.  Paul:  Umhum.  BW:  Closer to it, yeah.  Paul:  Well, that's if the resi, if the uh property owners go along with you.  It'd just take one to say, No!  CLM:  Sounds like a good time for me to aprop (a few million?)  (Paul chuckles)


JZ:  Well, I guess we need to - DC: Do we need to sit down maybe & set up uh Eric & - JZ:  We have a couple of issues with MSD;  we probably need to get all of 'em - DC: get a mtg with MSD, a sit-down & have a mtg with them like here at the city hall & get 'em all together & go over all these things & try to iron somethin' out?


2/17/04 LEV - Section  11 of  21



CLM: I think we need to meet with the property owners first.  Meet with the property owners.  Paul:  Yeah, like plan B ready to go.  CLM: Gotta get them to sign off before we make a pitch to MSD, say, hey, uno this is okay with the prop owners since they know how (to build it?).  Maybe we could say, well - Paul:  'cause yeah, if you go with individual grinders for the residents, MSD don't care because they're not gonna maintain it.   It's up to the -


BW:  You mean it would have to be uh an individual one for each - Paul:  Yes.  BW:  like that strip bldg down there?  Paul:  Yeah, you'd have to have - there's 4, yeah, there's 4 properties that are involved in this;  each one would have to have their own little grinder pump & a little well, sump well - BW: Sump well, yeah.  Paul:  built.  BW:  Are those residential pumps that expensive?  Paul:  I don't know.  BW:  I've seen 'em in new houses where they're really built on the weird places uno.  Paul:  Yeah, that's for uh rain water, uno, the sump pumps, but I haven't seen the little grinder pumps. 


JEM:  They make a fiberglass - Paul: _fab, yeah.  DC:  We could do - JEM: for a grinder pump - DC:  just like we did at Beckett's Plaza  & - JEM: problem _ _ - DC: set up a mtg with all the owners of the uh businesses.  CLM:  I'd recommend that - JEM:  you have to set a concrete _ - DC:  & that worked out really well.  JEM: outside.  You still got all the controls. You got your - DC: That worked out really well - CLM: every now _ _ - DC: havin' a mtg with those people in Beckett's Plaza - CLM: _ _ _ -


DC: & it'd be easy to set it up.  We could set it up any time that you'd want.  You, you hash it together;  you fellas & hash together, let me know & I'll go & uh tell 'em.  EM:  We oughta see what happens with this MSD correspondence;  see what their response is & then - DC:  Ok. 


DM:  Are they gonna answer quickly enough where we're not gettin' too close to the 15th even - EM:  We'll be callin' 'em.  DC:  & any time you wanna set up a mtg with the business people, just let me know & I'll, we can have 'em here if you want the contractor here or just, or the COE here.  I don't think we need the contractor.  I think it's just a matter of havin' the city eng, Eric, maybe the Col here, JEM & uh - ?: _ selfish _ - DC:  whether the COE's here or not, but just iron this out - how & explain to 'em what, what we're planning to do & then go from there.  ?: _ _ _ - Paul: Umhum.  BW: what we're plannin' to do or hope to do. DC: be glad to set it up at any time that you wanna do it & get the notices out.  JZ:  Ok.  DC:  You just let me know & we'll do it. 


I wanna ask Joe;  Joe, Can you be available about 9:30 Thurs morning over at the const site?  JEM:  Uh I don't have my schedule on _ _ _ _ _ _ - DC:  Just let me know.  I'd still like to have you there when I have this, this blurb here for const people _ _ for Thrus morning.  Paul:  Tom or I will be there.  DC: Ok, good. 


2/17/04 LEV - Section  12 of  21



Uh I'm going to contact the other uh utility people on the telephone poles that's the Bell Telephone & the cable people & see if I can't get them to come out & remove their utility off of the poles before the electric is removed.  We'll have that done rather than have to go thru the usual procedure & have uh the electric co contact them when they cut the poles off, & then the telephone co comes out & then the cable co comes out & then somebody has to pull the poles.


If we could get those 2 utilities moved, then when we get a hold of the electric, it's gonna be - ?: _ _ - DC:  they'll take it, they can take the poles, the wiring down & take the poles down at the same time & we'll have it all done;  rather than have to wait for maybe - the way it works now I mean you have to wait maybe 20 to 8, 30 days before you get one of 'em to be removed & everything.  But uh I'm gonna contact them this wk & see if I can't work out with the electric co & the utility, the uh telephone co & the uh cable co to get those things removed.  Because everything is disconnected from the houses;  they just have to take the stuff off the poles.  JEM:  Have you got a contact at Charter?  DC:  Hmm?  JEM: (repeat).  DC: Yes, I, I've got now just about every contact that we need here so I'll talk to them.


2/17/04 LEV - Section  13 of  21

Beckett Plaza


Um you've all seen my uh report here.  You got any ques on anything that was in the uh update here?  Uh like I said, we contacted the people at Arnold's, at uh Beckett's Plaza & had a mtg with them & they were all uh very much in agreemt.  Uh the only person that had any ques & uh he was referred to Eric & the city;  uh that's Fly By Liquor & that's as far as I'll go with it.  Whether he contacts you or not, I don't know. 


But um they're all very uh happy that the levee's goin' in & are lookin' fwd to havin' maybe their pkg lot better drainage in their pkg lot which we plan to do up in Beckett's Plaza. 


& uh, uh they will be, the contractor will be video-taping the interior of all the bldgs in uh Beckett's Plaza just to make sure because of the equipmt they'll be using - a lot of vibrations - & in Cheers especially with all the things & the liquor store with all the bottles & stuff you look around.  They may uno, but uh they'll have to be just uno whatever it is. 


When they lay that pipe in there, they lay about 75' at a time.  & they will start from the far end which is the west end at the det pond & work towards uh new 141.  I think most everything is pretty well laid out with the puttin' everything in except gettin' the sewer lines straightened out.  & I really don't know how - I hope Thurs we'll know something more about that from the contractor because there was something to do with the permits or something;  I don't know. 


KT: Dave, Did the pet store contact you at all or the bait store?  Because when you said we can lose our bat, I just don't want them to come back & try to sue you for - DC:  No, they haven't said anything.  I didn't contact them because they're not really, they're not really involved in this, but I'll go tell 'em that it's gonna be there.  Mr. Young knows it's gonna be there.  I contacted the people over in the land office over there, but I don't know how they'll be affected by it;  but I'll go over & tell 'em what's goin' thru there. 


But this 54" is going to be very close to all those bldgs & there will be times when they'll probably be shut down completely from the automotive place all the way up.  & Fly-By Liquor's drive-in will probably be shut down the longest because he is - it will be just - it's - (chuckling) he's too hot to door.   


JKB: Are we going to pay if he's shut down very long?  DC: Huh?  JKB: Are we gonna have to pay them if he's shut down very long?  DC: Well, that is the ques that he asked down there & I told him that'll be up to the contractor, er up to - he'll contact the city & let - they'll have to work that out whatever he's gonna do, whatever claim he's gonna make against us as far as bein' shut down.   I told him to contact you & he said he'd - & like I say I don't know - he said maybe if it's shut down more than 2 days then he'd probably be gettin' a hold of you;  but the contractor was gonna try to keep him. 


CLM:  Did you tell him you have a voodoo doll _ _ _ _?  (they chuckle)  DC:  He was the only one that said  - uh Cheers & the rest of 'em said they realized that there'd be a shut down & that they could possibly work around gettin' the things.  But it's just gonna be, I don't know, 75 feet & they got I think about 400 & some feet to lay so whatever.  


EM:  Generally, the city's not liable for business interruption for PUBLIC improvemts.  DC:  That'll be uno - EM:  It's their bill!  DC: (laughing) between our, our atty & their atty however this is gonna work out. 


JKB:  If they ever sell that or somethin' we do have to move that big pipe that's runnin' thru there at one time, don't we?  EM:  Yes.  JKB:  We paid 53,000 for that & we're doin' their pkg lot.  So they're gettin' - it's gonna cost the city over $100,000 if we have to move that pipe again.  Right? 


EM:  Boy, I, I, I don't know about the figures.  I know that the 53 sounds right.  JKB:  Well, if you're - well, they'll have to asphalt their pkg lot.  EM:  Yeah, I, I, I don't know.   ?: We're just gonna asphalt what was - EM:  We're, we're just, we're just basically patching the lot from - KT: _ -  EM:  where the trench goes to the wall _ _ _ -  DC: Right.  ?: _ be descriptive 'cause _ _ _ by from what I understood.


DC: & we'll be locating - EM:  We're not - DC: we'll probably locate some drains, some uh interior, the drains they're grading in the pkg lot to connect into the 54" so they get drainage up there.  TB:  There's already some there, but it's probably gonna make it more appropriate I guess maybe.  DC: Oh yeah.  TB?: Right, there's definitely gonna be improvemts. 


DC: Right.  There'll definitely be some elevation change in the grading in the flow lines in that pkg lot to get it to drain.  I mean they DO have a problem with water up there when it rains.  I mean it just - EM: The only way the line was gonna be moved is if the city came in & approved a, a wedevelopment in that area - where the road actually goes thru there & _ _. 


BW:  It'll be the city's responsibility to move that or a potential devr can then move that?  EM:  I think we said that the city would pay for the RElocation so long as they provide another esmt.


2/17/04 LEV - Section  14 of  21



DC:  Uh I guess that's as much as we can talk about on A1, Arnold's Dr.  JLB:  On what mtg did these bids come thru this cmte?  DC:  Uh bids never came - JLB: That we had to get the bids for Arnold's Dr?  I looked all the way back to November & I couldn't see where it came across this cmte that uh we had to get bids for Arnold's Dr for the demolition.  I didn't know if we was gonna do that or -


DC:  I don't, I don't think it has to come thru this cmte to uh to get bids.  We presented it to the BOA that we were gonna get bids for this & the uh BOA gave the mayor, by Ex thing, to uh move on these without uh & we presented the bids uh wrote a bid spec, uh JEM wrote a bid spec & uh advertised it.  & you can see that we had any # of bidders that came in on this.


JLB:  I'd just like to make one cmt here.  I know I can't change it, but just with me doin' an hour & 55 worth of footwork, the city could do the job, have the inspections done, labor cost done, dumpsters done, fuel done & still have money left over for repairs to do these breakdowns for 6,300 er $16,300.  That's a difference of the city saving $13,(038?).  Now could we have taken that money & rolled it over into the levee to pay on our part?  I know 13,000 is not a lot of money when you're talkin' millions of $, but -


JW: I think Jim's gonna say he didn't have time;  too much work _ _.  ?:  Well, Jimbo's got time if he wants to work the other ones in.  JW:  That's true!  KT:  I know we did discuss that there was - DC:  Well, we did discuss it & I mean we, we sort of discussed it with Jim.  I think the mayor discussed it with Jim about doin' this ourselves.  & I - it, it was uno.


JLB:  I'm just sayin' uno if - DC: if we'd have to go out & get bids to have it uh - all the bids for inspections & everything else & I mean uno, I don't know, I don't know what kind of equipmt they, they're, they need for this.  JLB:  Correct.  Now your asbestos inspections would've cost you, at the max, $1200;  that's $45/hr not to exceed 300.  DC:  I, I really don't know.  JLB: per bldg.  DC:  I don't have any idea.  JLB:  I didn't know when we come to that decision or the bd or whoever if they really sat down with a piece of paper;  I know they figured it up. 


DM:  I know one of the concerns was keepin' the street crew available in case it snowed which we had a couple snows recently.  JLB:  If we'd have started tearin' this down when we 1st started talkin' about gettin' bids, we had 2 or 3 snows that would've tied up down;  you're talkin' almost 2 mos now.  I guarantee they'dve had all the bldgs torn down probably in less than 3 days.  DM:  I guess we had delays in gettin' _ - JLB:  I know we can't foretell the future, but I mean all the bldgs are still standin' now so we haven't really gained much.  But that's just a cmt I wanted to make & I'm done.


DC:  I mean I really don't know.  They decided to uh go out for bids & uh I guess if all of 'em would've been sort of ridiculous like some of 'em, why we'd have probably not accepted any of 'em, but uh I thought the 29,000 was a pretty fair price for what, what they're gonna do & have to do up thereUh -


JLB:  Well, from what I gather, the only thing they're really gonna do is cap off the sewers & tear the bldgs down & haul 'em away.  They don't have nothin' to do with the foundations or nothin' critical.  DC:  No, they don't have anything to do with the foundations, but they are uno, uh (pause) - JEM:  There's a lot of junk up there that's gotta be hauled away too.  DC:  Yes, we've got - JEM:  Tractor trailer & a tar buggy & a bunch of junk that's over there by the Harrawood property & uh I know that that all is included in the bid spec. They've gotta remove all the fence rows.  They've gotta take all those fence posts out & only leave concrete;  dump it in the grind & they gotta break the basemt floors up - DC:  Gotta break all that concrete up. 


JLB:  Ok, I'm still confident that our guys could've done that & still saved the city money.  DC:  Well, I guess I don't really know. I won't get into it.  I mean I don't really know if that - I think we've got a fairly nice contract & I hope when - & hopefully, this fella will get it done by 3/1 & we'll be out of it, AL, except (chuckle) for the lift sta.  That's really all I can say. 


2/17/04 LEV - Section  15 of  21


I mean Jim says the contractor's movin' along.  I mean the weather hasn't slowed the fella down & if uh we get some nice weather, I mean he, he is gonna be ready to go in Arnold's Dr.  JKB:  I know they've only been down like 2 days since they started.  I mean it was pouring down - DC:  They've been workin' exactly 72 days on the job & that takes in the Christmas vacation & when they were down _ -  JKB:  They're really  movin' over there.  ?: _ _ _ -


DC:  & the nice thing about this contractor is he didn't bring in a lotta, lotta people from uh Kansas City.  He's only got most of the mgmt people's - he's only got 5 people outta Kansas City here & the rest of 'em is hired outta union halls in St. Louis.  So he hires all, all union contractors outta the halls here in the City of St L.  So that - CLM: Saves him _ _ _ _ - ?: Yeah. 


2/17/04 LEV - Section  16 of  21

4 River Dr houses & that area


DC:  Ok, the next one is the city cost share of the project & TPC.  Is that, we need to discuss that or is that an issue right at this time?  I think we know how much money we got for - EM:  I think before we get into that, lemme add one more thing about 4B.  DC:  Ok.  EM:  & it is this.  Um over this past wk, we had gotten notice from the water co that it was gonna cost the city uh a minimum of $90,000 to provide water svc to River Dr.  & that was the 1st time that we've learned that we're gonna have to relocate water lines in the River Dr area. 


& luckily, uh Pam Kettler & the mayor &, & others have been working on uh a buy-out from an outfit called Greater Green Ways uh Trail Cmsn.  & they've actually made 4 bids for the 4 residences there & my understanding is at least one has accepted 'em;  one is still talking;  & they haven't had responses from the other 2.  So that's on the plus side. 


We're actually getting some money in from other tax dollars that these people get their money from a sales tax that we all pay.  & uh what they would do is, is buy those houses, demolish 'em & then lease it back to the city for 100 yrs for a buck for 100 yrs.  & uh the city would be responsible for maintaining the trail system.  Paul?: pump _ _ (chuckle)  ?:  Is that all the homes that are there down there?  EM:  There's only 4 homes. 


So it looks like to save 100, the city may have to go in & do 2 of 'em. 


Uh, I'm, I'm being a little optimistic 'cause, but I, I DO think that the indications are that, that at least 2 of the four homeowners are going to, to sell out.


DC:  On that same note I think TW is working on the relocation of the water lines.  They're workin' with the water co over by Meramec Plaza to relocate their water lines & get some esmts & everything over there.  Paul:  Yeah, soon as the water co calls us back! (chuckle)  DC: Ok.  EM:  They indicated that they had problems with the breakdown by the uh bottoms water main where it wiped out the RR tracks down at the MO Bottoms.  So he indicated all their resources were going in on that & they haven't had the time. 


Uh & their intending to have their maint people locate where the lines are underneath the hwy.  I think that he thought it would be this wk, but - Paul:  Yeah, keep in contact with the surveyor like you & I had talked about.  They go out there & then we look at the stuff & say, ok!  But that Olsen? - correct me.  EM: Rick Olsen.  Paul:  Rick Olsen - DC: Right & Wright & Mrs. Wright too.  EM:  Lisa Wright, yeah.  


KT:  Does that have anything to do with the mess that's in front of Valley uh Elevator.  I know it's American Water, but uh Valley Elevator has complained to me about it & they're wondering - EM:  It may very well have something to do with that.  KT:  & that is going under the hwy right there.  ?:  I know they're doing a lot amt of water main up there. 


EM:  Basically, what they're doing is, is they're, they're putting a brand new water line in on that side of the road & then they're tunneling underneath Mer Sta Rd in order to get to the shopping ctr.  Because they're abandoning the way the shopping ctr gets water now which is around toward the back end.  KT: Somebody needs to tell them there's (nothing going?) on down because right now, they think Am Water has abandoned uno - they fixed what they're gonna fix & then they've left it. 


EM:  & it may be;  I mean maybe they have - I don't know.  I mean that phase of their work should theoretically be over that they've done in front of the uh - didn't they do it all the way to Carol House & now it's _ _ _ _ latterals.  DC:  I think they went all the way down to Donahue's.  EM:  Yeah, so now it should be just putting in latterals. 


KT:  But there's a mess right there on 141 & the Elevator.  DC:  I'm sure that's Am Water Co - KT:  It really looks - DC: back to do it whenever they do it. KT:  He's called Am Water 3 times.  EM:  I think the more pressure he puts on 'em, but again like I said, they, they indicated to me their resources are being employed otherwise right now.  They've got an emergency. 


DC: & the water svc on River Dr is a loop system that goes run along the RR, down between the RR tracks & Mer Plaza & goes back underneath uh the Frisco RR tracks in there.  & that loop is gonna be eliminated because we reached an agreemt with the uh Am Water Co & the contractor that we will probably relocate a fire plug.  & the contractor will use that as for his water system to keep the roads, any water he has to use at their - & they were in agreemt at a mtg we had that that would be suitable in order to keep the water circulating in that area so we wouldn't have to loop that system & cut it off.  So we can abandon the water system from the fire plug where we relocated underneath the uh RR tracks on the road in Arnold's - on uh River Dr over to the uh west side of the RR tracks & then tie in with that new water system that's goin' down thru there however it's goin'. 


2/17/04 LEV - Section  17 of  21


Ok, back to the city cost share.  We need to discuss that any?  JZ:  I don't really think we need to talk about that specific line.  DC:  How about the - JZ:  'cause a est that I've summaried of the costs, uno just updated the cost est of federal & non-federal.  DC:  Uh, fed sponsor funding for 04?  JZ:  I think we need to talk about that. 


Um, I think we finally have our actual money now coming in for fiscal 04 & it's the same # I've mentioned before, $2,125,000;  that's the fed amt.  CLM:  That's what you've been for allocated?  JZ:  Yeah, with allowance, $2,125,000.  & um - CLM:  That was out of the 2.75M _ _ - JZ:  Right.  Right, Congress aprop'd $2,750,000 & it was reduced to $2,125,000 before we got it. 


& um the city has given us $178,000 this FY & I've recomputed your requiremt & basically, I can't come back & ask you for any more money (chuckle), Eric.  I'm just gonna stick with the 178 & so uh because we got so much less fed $ here. 


So that's, that's the money we have available.  Um of the, of the uh of this pile, I put the whole 178,000 into our const contract & then I put in um enough fed $ to bring our const contract up to 1.3M total, uh which is what we told the contractor we would put in there.  & the rest is being used for uh eng'g & eng'g during const, const mgmt for this little repair job that we did on the Grand Glaize & uno that whole story.  


We're well, we're very short of money this FY.  That was one big reason to invite Gen Riley to see the situation.  Because uh, I'm just thinking the only people that I know of who can move money if there's money available to move, is, is our Dist Cmdr who knows the situation;  now Gen Riley who now knows the situation;  the Chief of Engs.  That's, that's the people within the COE & then the other, only other possibility is, is congressional uh uno is a provision of profession, congressional money uh for the project this FY.  &, & next FY,  we can talk about that next. 


But we know we need about, we think we need about 6.7M add'l $ um to pay our contractor this FY.  Just est'g that he's gonna earn $8M by the end of uh Sept.  CLM:  How much will he be getting?  JZ:  6.7M. 


CLM: Along those lines, (May to June?) make a cmt about the _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _  - DM:  & so did (euro?).  BW: Yeah.  DM:  In a letter to Lt Gen Rob't Flowers, requesting he attends here & we kind of hoped we'd help to get him on bd with this too.  I, I sent a letter to Gen Riley thanking him for coming here, appreciate everything he can do for us.  _ _ _ go into here, help get the $ flowin'.  CLM:  Maybe you wanna write a hand-written PS on it saying, bring money.  (several chuckle)  DM:  Make sure your Visa's not max'd out.  ?: Show me the money.  CLM:  This last...(exchange tapes)


...CLM:...he has a lot of _ _ _ he is familiar with this project to an extent because in his (last 5?) yr he was Commanding Gen at Ft Leonardwood & before that, the was another Commanding Gen at Fort Leonardwood, 2 different tours;  & then he was also the Cmndr & Pres of Mississippi River Cmsn, Mississippi River Div which is of course St L _ _ _ _.  I'm sure that _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ -  EM:  He's been here!   CLM:  Oh yeah!  He's been here too.  I think it's very, very good for him to come back now  & see all the things that have been accomplished.  & once again, let him see those photographs -


JZ:  As  the Div Cmndr he was here?  CLM: (yeah?) _ be able to get some good photographs of him & to the (close?) & that other.  DM:  He's got some;  see if Jim's got some.  EM:  We've got photographs.  DM: Ok. (They're exclusive?) I was gonna ask _ _ _ _.  CLM:  Jim mentioned - DM: _ _ _ - CLM:  Gen Lottery was the first one & - JZ:  Well, I just - the one photograph you had of an aeriel view of the city - I think it was the 1994 flood - it was either 93 or 94 - a very sharp photograph & just shows everything under water.  I mean it's just amazing.


Paul:  Pretty much so is everything (laughing).  JZ:  Yeah.  It says an awful lot.  I think you  _ _ _ _ & say this is what - uno we think this could happen again anytime & we're RUSHING to get the levee finished before we have this - another flood like this uno.  CLM: We're not in the middle of doin' this & Jim has agreed, is asking him uh, Jim with Cgsm Akin if he would like to also uh contact the Chief _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ his effort. 


DC:  On the uh letter that the mayor sent, uh I asked the sec'y today to send a letter of thank you from the VP Levee Cmsn & thanking uh Brigadier Gen Riley for his visit here from the Levee Cmsn& I think that covers just about everybody that was here that evening with the Levee Cmsn.  So I think 2 letters of tku would be - CLM:  That was a real good move, Jim.  BW:  Oh, I think we should always do that.  DC:  So they'll probably be sendin' that out soon as Rosemary gets it together & sends it out.  Ok. 


CLM:  Well, he's reminded him that the COE's been lookin' at that since 1887.  BW:  What did he say, 1887, 1887?  CLM:  Yeah, there was some sort of a quick flood control & eng'g study _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.  BW:  I know in the 40's they were doin' - the study was done on the VP (fire eng?).  CLM:  & one where 2 _ _ _ _ _ available with _ _ _ _ _ _ _ muddy river _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.  VP has a long flooded history. 


JZ:  That was before the g/p was built.  (someone chuckles)  CLM: Yeah.  ?: Right.  CLM:  Would've been a lot simpler back in those days, wouldn't it? (chuckle)  ?: Yeah.  DC:  If we'dve got Meramec Lake built, we may not be doin' - havin' to do all this too.  (chuckle)  JKB?:  We wouldn't have this project.  CLM:  If Meramec Park Lake had been built, we wouldn't be sittin' here.  DC:  We wouldn't be, we wouldn't be foolin' around with AL. (he laughs heartily)  Paul: Yeah!


2/17/04 LEV - Section  18 of  21  


DC:  How 'bout the fed sponsor funding for 05?  JZ:  Well, it's uh the Pres' budget has been released & Eric knows the #;  he told me about it, but it's uh $2,065,000, a very small #.  I, I think I should explain how this - how you arrive at a budget.  (chuckle)  Uh, it's not like we can put in the budget what we think we really need. 


The Dist gets a uh some direction that we have a ceiling that our entire program has to stay within, ok.  & so the Dist has to divy up all the projects that we have within this ceiling.  & tho we, the Dist, comes up with a # for VP, that's not the # that we really need;  it's just a # that fits within the overall ceiling.  Then when that goes up to Washington, uno eventually it goes to the Office of Mgmt & Budget & they give what's called a Passback & they actually give us what the budget really is, the Pres' budget.  In this case, they cut it back dramatically from what the Dist asked for.  So I mean $2,065,000 is, is - it's not even close to what we need in FY 05.  ?: (That's good?).


BW:  What was the request for?  What was really needed?  JZ: Well, what is really needed, I mean I can tell you in general, what is needed.  We've got a $14M contract.  Right now, there's about 1.3M that we can put in that contract & we HAVE 1.3M in the contract.  If we get no more money in fiscal, I mean assuming we get no more money in FY 04, we need to pay the contractor the rest of his contract. 


CLM:  I wanna ask you a ques about that.  Your capability for 05 is what 7M?  JZ:  04 you're talkin' about.  For FY 04, we had put in a capability of $7M, the current yr.  CLM:  Ok, what was the capability for?  JZ:  You can't release the capability for FY 05.  CLM:  I thought you released that with the budget request.  JZ:  No.  CLM:  Ooo!  You mean they stopped that!?  JZ: Yeah, I mean I don't know;  we can't release it. 


CLM:  Here's the reason I asked that:  That's a very important # when you're talkin' about maybe puttin' your boots on.  You can't go - there's no point in goin' to Congress asking for more money than the COE's capability is.  & I'm sure that if our congressional delegation goes to the Aprops Subcmte & said we want you to increase the COE's budget request for VP from what it is now, to x #, the Aprops Subcmte staff will go to the COE, they always do, & say what's your capability for FY _ _.  & there's no way that you're gonna get any more money than what the COE says the capability is.  The COE's capability is the # that - oversimplification is that that's the maximum amt of money that the COE can REASONABLY use during that FY.  So there's no restrictions or per diem or the weather looks pretty good, we didn't have any _ strikes or anything like that.


BW:  Is that a true #?  CLM:  Oh yeah.  It's a # that - BW: Capability?  CLM: The capability is pretty close to the - JZ: Uno we're in a position - CLM: The COE's _ _ _ _ use it.  JZ:  We're in a position now, being more confident than normal, more confident than normal of what we can spend in FY 05 because we have a contract underway;  we know the contract amt is!  CLM: They're not yesterday's _. 


JZ:  We know we also need to do some env'l work besides.  CLM:  Backfuturing, Jim, don't read your log or anything; (JZ chuckles) On account of backfuturing, you're getting roughly l.3M on a contract for this FY, '04.  JZ:  Right.  CLM:  The total contract is 14M.  So that means you have a shortfall & will need about $12.7M.  JZ:  Just to pay this contractor.  CLM:  This yr & next yr.  JZ:  Right.  BW: For which is FY 4 & 5?  JZ: Right.  CLM:  Right, so your capability for this yr is 7 right now.  JZ:  That was, that's an est, it's just, it's uh really kind of um passť now.  CLM:  Yeah.


DM:  We're gonna at least hit that 7M, won't we?  JZ: It'd be great to have it, but we didn't get it yet.  CLM:  Let's just say you could use the 7M if you got it.  DM: If we had 7M I'm sure we'd spend it on what, how much they're gonna have - CLM: Yeah, see - DM: done by Sept 30th.  CLM: That means that you need at least 7M in 05.  JZ: Well, we need that, plus we know the contractor's gonna finish work, his job, the contract, in 05.  CLM:  We're kind of like a chicken & the egg sandwich.


JZ:  I think your figure of 12.7 is what we need to pay the contractor.  CLM: What we're getting at - JZ:  Plus mods (chuckle).  BW:  Mods 2 & 5 or 4 & 5.  JZ:  4 & 5, right.  BW: Yeah.  CLM:  When we get, if our delegation goes to Aprops Subcmte & says we want this amt of money, they then check with the chief's office - gotta make sure that we're not askin' for amt of money that the chief's office is sayin' you can't use.  JZ:  I don't see how they could argue with you if you've got a contract that needs to be paid.  CLM: That's what I'm sayin', go back thru & we've got a pretty good handle on it.  JZ:  Then you need const mgmt, you need eng'd during const in FY 05;  you need some money to pay an env'l contractor.


CLM: & of course the other, a note here is - JZ:  & then a little (peace or piece?) at home (chuckle - it seems only Paul & BW heard that) CLM:  Valley aprops -  Paul: Hmm, yeah (he laughs). CLM: & I haven't - BW:  Nothin' to it! CLM: _ _ - DM: Does that include money being shipped in from other areas?  For once - CLM:  That's up to - JZ:  If money comes into the project, you would less, I mean even less for 05. 


2/17/04 LEV - Section  19 of  21


CLM:  Yeah, there's only, there's 2 sources of money - Paul:  The only problem is - CLM: realistically available for the COE for this FY 04, began 10/1, 9/30.  One is Congress will have a Subcmte Aprops Bill for Energy & Water Aprops 'cause there are some emerg requiremts, so there WILL be one. 


& I've been told by some people that should know that they been cuttin' the cgsm's staff, that they think that it won't be just a pure emerg.  Something about there will be an opportunity for add'l funds to be had in Mississippi Valley projects that are short of funds.  Not an emerg basis, but they can obviously use the funds.  We have a shot at getting more money into the Dist;  & that's by the other means that Jim said, is transferred authority over the COE. 


First the Dist will submit an explanation transferring the funds (someone coughs), but the guy (sendin'?) our bills, then they go to Div.  Div then looks at the other districts on a disability rating & somebody's gonna have a few million (bucks?) somewhere, so if they think they have a shot at getting provisions for the rest of the yr sent somewhere else, 5 of the other districts thruout the COE, there are 14 divisions, div (capers?) reporting to the chief's office, the chief's office is not _ _;  that's all 04.  But again, even THAT source of money that we're entitled to (issue?) that normally would go to everybody without even being cut;  _ across the bd. 


2/17/04 LEV - Section  20 of  21


KT:  Does that mean that the City VP has to flood the Congress with letters, with need for this levee?  CLM: Uh, we're not at that point yet where that would be uh inappropriate.  We need to wait until _ (fixin' to send it to the vote there?).  KT:  I mean this would do it to House of (Congress?)?  CLM:  No, we, we need to get a better handle on the uh delegation & what the Aprops Subcmte for (the other?) half of the yr.   There's - things are pretty much up in the air right now, but uh several clients in MO (have?) that process & the other is it's an election yr.


The 3rd thing is - KT:  Yeah, I know it's an election yr - CLM: the administration - KT: & that's why I thought - CLM: was severely cut, cut the COE & they haven't in past yrs.  So when this happens, usually the Congress will have more money for the city's lot & (they probably wouldn't?), but they're gonna - you have to force your cards. 


KT: Well, I mean the cgsm are sendin' out letters wanting to know what we need.  We can sure tell 'em what we need.  CLM:  Oh yeah, but we wanna do it at the right time & in the right way.  KT:  & this is the election yr, so - CLM:  The fact that it's an election yr is what makes the aprops process _ _ _ (difference?) in the whole country as opposed to how it effects us.  I think the fact that it's an election yr & we have such a good strong congress'l support, it'll probably go higher.  The fact that it's an election yr, it (effects?) the overall aprops process as far as your budget caps for the whole season of Congress & it probably will (next yr?). 


DC:  I can say from a const standpoint, that we're gonna have a levee in 05 whether it's paid for or not.  ?:  I hope your right.  KT:  Yeah.  JZ:  I hope your right too.  That's what, that's what our objective is, to get this levee const'd _ -


2/17/04 LEV - Section  21 of  21


DC:  With this contractor, I don't think there's gonna be any, any stop.  There's gonna be - CLM:  No, but everything we get above what they've aprop'd - JZ:  Uno you just don't really know for sure what they're gonna do when they get down the road & there's millions of $ involved.  That's, that's my worry.  BW:  Yeah, they can talk a good story, but when it comes to real $ - JZ:  It's just, you just don't know for sure.  BW:  Is the parent co gonna be - JZ:  They have said they'd like to be paid, uno they would like to be paid.  CLM:  That's what every edge we're liable to get - Paul: _ attitudes change. (he chuckles)  CLM: goes to - Paul: philosophies change (he chuckles).  CLM:  support the contractors you have.  ?: Yeah.


JZ: But I think you have a lot of confidence the contractor's gonna proceed, but it sure looks like it does.  DC:  Just the way the contractor talks that they're gonna finish this in 05 uh whether - they're not gonna stop;  they're gonna - CLM:  Oh, I think he will!  They'll make more money - DC:  I think they're a big enough outfit that they'll finish this job & - CLM: They'll care -  DC: worry about whether - CLM:  I think they'll care.  This costs more to get the people & equipmt onto another job;  make more money.  I think they know about the political end of it.  DC: because they're not uno - they have more equipmt.  I mean they've got equipmt down there now, but you haven't seen half the equipmt that's gonna be down there. 


KT:  Are they gonna charge interest on _?  (about 5 at once: Oh yeah! They'll get interest.) ?: _ _ -  DM:  Even on $10M.  (Paul laughs heartily)  DC:  I figured something like maybe 3% or something like that whatever the interest is of the uh, how they, they get some, something that they get interest on;  it's about 2 or 3%.  JZ:  There's language in the contract that deals with it, but I don't know the number. 


?: (chuckle) You should.  CLM: 'cause really that - there's a # of lines allows real interest & - KT: That's better than what they can get at a bank from what I have heard.  CLM: Since interests are so low there, that # is probably higher - DM: Well, we could collect the interest & pay off the levee & let the COE pay us.  Paul:  Yeah! There you go.  ?: _ _ - CLM:  than what they would make if they had the money to put in the bank themselves.


DC: Did you see the pictures - CLM: & the other thing is it's - DC:  that they've got there & the equipmt they've got - CLM: based on Treasury Notes in real life.  DC: & this crusher that they brought in there & this blender, this is not something that's been used before.  This is a brand new piece of equipmt.  They - I mean (chuckling) there's gonna be more equipmt on this job than we, we've ever seen on a levee projects here in VP because these guys are gonna get it done.  They're not - the equipmt they got down there right now is top notch! 


CLM:  We're gonna celebrate St. Patrick's Day at the next mtg?  DC: When, at completion?  (a few chuckle)  JZ:  Oh, next yr.  ?: _ complete this.  DC:  Is that - or is it gonna be the 16th?  No, it's 15.  ?: _ _ - CLM: Erin go - ?: Yeah.  DC:  Ok, next Levee Cmsn mtg 3/15/04, same time.  I need a motion to adjourn.  JW:  Motion to adjourn.  ?: 2nd.  DC:  & a 2nd, all in favor?  (ayes heard) Oh good!