MOPR'S   7/6/04   VP   BOA/PBH   MTG   MINUTES


Notes:   Mtg time about 7:30 - 9:35pm. >  On the agenda is:  Bill No. 1775 - An ord approving a preliminary dev plan & a rezoning from PDC to Amended PDC for a dev at 1305 {sic} Big Bend Road identified as P&Z Petition No.P.2004-03. >  Levee-specific info, Sec 6 & 19.  Meramec Greenway, Sec 18.  


Present:  RH,  TB,  DA,  JKB,  MW,  DM,  EM,  JW,  MP,  MMW,   KT. 



7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  1 of  30 


DM:  Prior to this evening's Bd mtg, we're gonna have 2 PBH's.  First & pursuant to the mccvp, a PBH will be held before the BOA on Tues, 7/6/04 at 7:30 at city hall - Pet RZ 2004-3, submitted by Wind Eng'g for the rezoning of 13505 Big Bend from PDC to Amended PDC, use for a retail shopping ctr including restaurants, retail sales & automotive svc.  Mr. Wind & Mr. Griesedieck, if u care, just a brief opening statemt. 


MrG:  Yes, uh I, I was, I was advised that being brief is uh important uh & since I'm paid by the word, I have a problem with that, but we'll talk about it some other time.  Uh, my name's Ed Griesedieck.  I rep the petr, it's uh Steve Knoll(s?), DFBB Properties & we're the owner & the contractor of this parcel of prop.  It is about 5.58 acres in size.  Uh I know u all have the info in the packet.  I'd be happy to respond to any ques's u might have.  This was previously in front of u.  It was a 2-story strip ctr.  This is a one-story & what we're proposing is a one-story bldg which we think fits better uh with the neighborhood & with the area.  Uh I'm here with uh Mr. Wind, Mr. Morgan, Mr. Knolls, the, the uh, uh petr & we'd be happy to respond to any ques's that u might have as u move fwd or review the ord. 


DM:  Does anyone from the aud have any ques's about this proposal?  Any of the BOA have any ques's?  DA: The only cmt, YH, this is in the 1st Ward & um as a rep of the 1st Ward, I have no use for _ _ _ _ _ _ _ this project.  DM:  Tku. Guess I should announce - officially opening the uh PBH at 7:31 & _ _ seeing any ques's here, I'll open it er close it at 7:36, seeing no uh ques's or anybody making any cmts.  MrG:  Tku for your time.  DM:  Tku, sir. 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  2 of  30 


Next, we'll open this at 7:37 - pursuant to the mccvp, a PBH shall be held before the BOA on Tues, 7/6/04 at 7:30pm at VP City Hall - Pet RZ - 2004-02, submitted by Ace Auto for the rezoning of 923 St Louis Ave from PDI to Amended PDI use for a used-car dealership.  Care to stand up - I apologize I forgot your name.  MrB:  Tim Bernini.  Do u want me to come up there?  DM:  Yes, just briefly describe what this - I know it says in here a used car dealersip.  MrB:  Um, I've been in the car biz 30 yrs, luxury cars & I've accessed a um buying cars & we're tryin' to get a license here in VP & that's why we're going thru this process - at 923 - um that's pretty much it.


I think we um, that you'd actually want us to do it.  We're just tryin' to uno get the approvals so we can get the license.  DM:  Tku.  MrB:  Any ques's?  DM:  Anyone of the aud first of all?  Hearing none, BOA? 


TB:  Right, I mean how many cars do u expect to keep here & how many parking spaces are down there?  MrB:  Well, it's like any new biz.  Right now, we're startin' off a little small. Um chances are the only cars we're gonna retail are the ones we can keep inside.  The cars I purchase are cars that uno they're, they're real nice cars;  they're cleaned, they're put inside.  They're not cars that I'm gonna put outside at, at the present time.  As biz gets better, I plan on uno I guess coming back & wanting to expand & put up fences & lighting & uno really make it a first-class op.  But until then, it's gonna start small.  It's like any small biz.  Uno u start small & hopefully it'll uh uno - until I can put up wrought iron fence around the prop & secure it & do it, do it the, the way I want to. 


TB:  Is this the shop that used to be like a detail shop down there or something?  It was a - MrB:  No, that's - my plans are takin' over the detail shop;  uno I'm not - but I'm in the middle.  DM?:  Ok.  MrB:  & I - my, my area'll hold about 8 cars.  & uno this is kind of a, uh biz that my wife & myself operate 'cause we don't want to be big;  it's pretty small.  Uno we go by the marketing, E-Bay, the computer & things like that.  So it's - most of my cars are sold by appointmts.  They call me up - they might call me up & _ say, I'm interested in what u have - uno an auto trader & um I'm leavin' town, I'd like to look at that; & then uno I meet 'em by appointmt & we go from there. 


But as things - uno as I get more room & the area gets uh uno - when I think it would be right to retail cars outside without uno um get 'em vandalized, that's - uh then, call for more money.  Then I'd have to put up fencing, more lighting;  uno I'd have to just do it right.  But right now, we just need the license to start small. 


DM:  TB, Anything else.  TB:  Well, I was curious as to how many parking spaces are allowed for that & I mean u naturally need some parking spaces for your, for your customers that come in.  & let's say u had 8 spaces there & if u wanted to get larger, do u have the room there to put the 4 cars outside? 


MrB:  Well, we have to go back - from the very beginning, that was the main concern.  We met all those obligations.  I mean there's plenty of room for parking & for display;  um u went over that.  The only requiremt was that if we um put it on the back lot which is gravel, that would have to be paved & that was in agreemt.  But as far as - I mean there's a certain amt of area where u can retail but u have to meet all the criteria.  We did that & that was approved the 1st time & I think we met everything that needs to be met.  Um, again it's just a matter of getting the license so then we can uh uno start getting - I mean u don't get/do anything until u get a license.  I can't even sign the lease until I know that u gentlemen uno issue a license.  TB:  Tku.  MrB:  Tku.


DM:  MMW.  MMW:  Yeah, I was just curious - I wasn't - I don't think I was here when u came probably the 1st time & I was just curious to know if u've had any other uh similar dealerships or something or if this was your only one?  MrB:  Ok, I've been in the retail biz for 30 yrs & I'm still in the retail biz & I plan on staying in the retail biz.  I work for one of the largest dealerships in St Louis, (Merchant Car?).  So I mean I've been doin' it for so long, I don't need to just quit that & jump into a 6 or 8-car month, pre-owned buy.  But I have opps to purchase cars & if we don't retail & I can make a pretty good - I mean I can do pretty well, set up by um - now what was the ques?


MMW:  I was just wondering if u had any other dealerships or places similar to - MrB:  Oh, yeah.  Well, right now I'm licensed - I have a place on Kingshighway & I have a large warehouse.  I have retail area, but they're saying that the area is - I mean there's a lot of - there's a lot of exposure but it's not a good neighborhood & the type I, I cars I deal with, um I would rather just store 'em & clean 'em up, get 'em right & store 'em & then market 'em;  yeah, instead of standin' out there tryin' to retail 'em.  That's not what I'm gonna do.  But uh it's too far;  I live 8 mins from here;  I live right up 141.  So this is real convenient & I can be here in 8 mins.  I got a real clean op.  I mean it's just sharp as a tack & uh makes a good impression.  But uno if I can - uno like they do (at my or it might?) work, I wanna put my son down there every day for uno for so many hrs & try to retail the cars & do other things that I need;  uno it's convenient. 


DA:  YH,  Yes, um this particular the area where this dealership um is wishing to go in, um not too many yrs back was a pretty, um pretty run down area.  Some of the bizs have blocked in - the whole area seems to be deteriorating.  I'm not sure whether what we have is small engine repair shop comin' in & do a really good job.  Um & I think that the entire area's starting to make a type of comeback &, & I believe that's - 1st of all, we've got Tim interested in takin' it a little bit further.  Uh & I believe this would actually help move that process along & hopefully, there's still some trouble areas in that spot there & hopefully if this goes in, possibly another good biz will hope to come in & um we can revive that area.  So I, I believe that this is certainly worth reviving & I would hope that other Bd members will support this & it's time to do so.  Tku. 


KT:  YH, Uh I was at the P&Z Mtg when this gentleman presented um his plan & uh it sounded REALLY good to me & they plan on uh doing a little landscaping in pots & um it, it sounds like a very good improvemt for that end of town. 


JW:  I guess will u be doing any type of maint or auto body work or tire changes?  MrB:  I hope not.  I mean I don't know how to do any of that.  But I mean (people chuckle) I do _ it didn't start - JW:  (chuckling) That's all of us I think.  MrB:  Well I mean, I'm in sales.  I don't know how to really fix anything.  (more chuckling)  But I mean I went down, I went down there the other night to move a car & it was dead & it took me uno half an hr to get a plate off that would've taken anybody else 5 mins.  & yeah, I'll probably hook up batteries if I need a (navy?) works car once in a while. 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  3 of  30


But my - I mean uno if u're comin' down in that area & u see me, come on by & u'll kind of get an idea what I'm, I'm doin'.  It's just real sharp.  When u walk in, you're in the cut spot because the cars are top-notch;  uno the place is just - uno no clutter.  & uh like I said, the next step, I'd like to take over the clean-up shop & make it as more of a showroom & then be able to work my way into - I think VP's a gold mine.  I mean I'm sold on it.  I can buy park-view down there & that's where I'm gonna be lookin' at.  I think within the next 5 yrs, there's not gonna be any better place to live.  I mean I can see so much goin' on here, just like Fenton 10 yrs ago.  I mean it's, it's, it's a great place & I wanna be part of it.  I think u did a good job. 


DM:  Just one thing I should've brought, er JW, do u have anything else?  JW:  No.  DM:  I was gonna say for both proposals, as I see ads in the paper or something that say W County or this & that near Ballwin, if they're - even tho they're in VP.  So hopefully with - say I would like to hear a word u're sayin' here with VP bein' _ _ - MrB:  Oh yeah - DM:  _ proud to say they're in VP & not _ _ -


MrB:  As I said I work at a, uh - commercial is a dump, little well-known, & the people that work there feel they should like kind of let a couple of 'em know where I'm at & these people, the _ (noise like something fell over), I would - in W County, these people all come up & um & west on 44, they know this area & they're tellin' me, well, yeah, we come over 44 & we cut over this way & we cut up thru here & St L Ave, I've been told, is gonna be the main thoroughfare.  The next thing that'll happen is on Marshall St - I think it's a gold mine.  I think the whole area's just - I mean whenever that levee gets kind of built a yr from now or whatever, I don't uno - I think this is the hottest area in St L - West St L.  I mean it's - don't u think?


DM:  Well, we definitely do.  As I say, I point, I was hoping people would - if u tell somebody how to get here, u'd say it's in VP & not west of Kirkwood or something.  MrB:  Yeah.  JW:  U got a great buyer on a car already.  (people laugh thruout the next few lines)  DM:  _ _ _ - MrB:  Well that's why - ?: _ _ -  MrB:  Well, I'm a little shy, but  - DM:  We'll get u over it.  Any other ques's?  MrB:  & we will give u a deal if u come over.  RH:  Hope that's for the whole town.  JW:  U give 'em _ _ _ - ?:  Yeah!   


MrB:  Well, I haven't figured out exactly what the whole town's lookin' for in cars, uh but uno we'll figure that out uno;  so I mean it's gonna be fine.  Now to me it's a hobby;  uno I mean it's the only thing I really know how to do is sell, uno buy & sell cars.  & I'll see something I think is cool & I won't be able to sell it for a yr - like the MG, uno I said, I had one of these 30 yrs ago;  everybody wants one of these.  Now it's just the worst _ _ _ _ uno so u gotta just - it'll be fun.  Uno I hope to see all of u.  DM:  Tku, sir.  MrB:  Tku.  DM:  PBH will be closed at 7:48. 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH  -  TOPICS & INFO ONLY  -  Section  4 of  30


BOA Mtg roll call, 8 present, have quorum, call to order & Pledge; 2 Speaker Requests;  RH & TB have nothing to add to the agenda;  noted during tape exchange, JW added an update on Mortonís Grove sewer projects;  then, MP added Crescent Springs Escrow & a couple of letters in the packet under the Mayor's Report;   MMW added trees along the sidewalk by Vance Rd  & a Glen Eagles stop sign blocked by trees;  KT added flowering shade trees to plant on St L Ave corners &/or around that RR ROW across from Ottie's, RR debris/property, the Fire Dept's Ord # 76 dated 3/27/03, Amendmt to Bill # 1774 including street name's, & the PBW Coordinator who she would like to see _ _ _ _ _ _ _.  Per DM, Chief of Police Colonel Lee is present & will be introduced.   Agenda is approved. 


1st Speaker Harvey Cochran of Seton Hall Ct addresses the BOA re behind 15 houses on his cul-de-sac, a spring comes out in 2 different places onto the street, along with their sump pumps.  It's a constant hazard;  ice in winter, mosquitoes in summer & the water is causing damage, going under the concrete on its way to the storm sewer.


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  5 of  30


DM:  I guess according to those cmts, EM, if this is a spring - I don't know how - How do we determine whether it's city responsibility or the subdiv's responsibility _ _ _ _ _ see where the water is sourced at - EM:  I, I mean we gotta look at the plat & see what esmts are there & where the property is coming from & (rain sit u all sorts of things?)  Probably _ _ _ _ _.  DM:  Ok. I guess I'll get with u after the mtg or call in the next day or so to have our eng contact u to see who would be - if somebody could - I guess a mutually agreeable time, we get out there & get - see the problem & then somebody can be there to show.  MrC:  Alright;  sounds great. 


EM:  Is, is it a problem with a solution?  MrC:  Well, the solution that they got was the people that built the houses run their, the sump pumps to the street.  In the winter time the ice has gotten 4' thick at times before the city comes out & cleans it up.  & people slip & fall on it & then in the summertime, it's the mosquitoes.  The mosquitoes are terrible, but uh I don't know.  There's 2 places where the spring runs from the backyards out, out to the street without going thru people's sump pumps.  So it just goes around the house. 


DM:  _ verify, that would be 4" - 4' - MrC:  What do u mean?  DM:  U said it got 4' thick before the city - MrC:  No, the ice has gotten 4' thick on the street.  & to the house to my right, ok, my kid's out waitin' for the school bus & people are hittin' this & uh they're practically goin' airborne over it in the winter time - fast drivers.  DM:  Alright, say we'll have our city eng review this.  JW:  I bet they're wreckin' their cars.  DM:  I would think so;  they could tear up bumpers.  MMW.  MMW:  So this, this is a sort of a drainage with standing water, kind of - MrC:  Right.  MMW:  issue.  U wanna try to reroute the springs - MrC:  Right.  MMW:  to keep them out of the road.  I, I've, I've driven up & down & kind of looked at it.  The gutters are constantly full of water;  I mean by that much. 


DM:   It'd be both the springs & the sump & the _ - MrC:  Right, the spring runs in the back & some of it runs into people's houses & the sump pump drains it out into the street.  But there's 2 places where it just naturally comes out into the street.  MMW:  The curbs are kind of covered with like an algae or a mold & - KT: _ _ _ - MMW:  water.  It's really slippery & green.  It's nasty lookin'.  I don't know if - what's actually - we can do about it.  MrC:  & it's makin' the storm sewers fall apart where it comes out. 


MP:  I just have a ques.  I was in at the last LEG Mtg & if u would read the mins, they played with that issue until -  said that they were gonna notify the trustees & residents that it is not a city issue.   MrC:  It's gotta be a city issue;  it runs into the street.  KT:  YH.  DM:  Well, that doesn't necessarily make it a city issue.  If the homeowner's the one that's causing it to go in the street, then _ -


MrC:  Well, there's 2 places where the homeowners AREN'T causing it to go in the street.  ?:  YH.  MrC:  So it would still run -  DM:  Well, we'll have TW review this.  Also, talk to our city atty to see _ _ -  ?:  Source (of?) the property.  MrC:  So u want me to wait until after the mtg?  DM:  Well, just give me your phone # real quick & if u wanna leave before the mtg is over (MrC gives DM his #) - DM:  Like I said, TW or somebody from his office will contact u & set something up.  McC:  Alright.  DM:  Tku.  Did somebody else have a ques?  ?: _ - DM:  Ok, Tku.


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  6 of  30


Next, we have MM.  MM:  Yes, my name is MM & my only rental property was #8 Arnold Dr until u took it from me wrongfully I believe & now it seems I'm dealing with what I think is called gov't extortion.  But uh what I wanted to ask tonight is, the Thurs morning levee mtgs, are they open to the public at ESI's trailer? 


DM:  Are those generally working mtgs where they're - JM:  Those are just contactors mtgs I believe, YH.  Uh u would have to talk to DC & I don't know that it's open to the public.  DC:  No, they're not open to the public. These are just - these are Progress Mtgs.  DM:  Ok.  DC:  These are not - JM:  Same thing as dept mtgs that we have.  Dept heads - we would have dept head mtgs - DC:  Right.  DM:  This would be a dept mtg for the employees of the city. 


MM:  Progress Mtgs.  DM:  Right.  MM:  There're about land acquisiton, relocations - DC:  No - MM: utilities - DC:  No, they're not _ - DM:  It's about the actual const.  DC:  That goes on in the Levee Cmte mtgs here at the city hall, every 2nd, every 3rd Monday at 5:00.  MM:  They're not the same as what used to be called the In-Progress Review Mtgs? (IPR/PRM - Progress Review Mtgs)  DC:  & I give u a Progress Report exactly what goes on every, at the Bd mtgs - Cmte thing. 


MM:  That's the other thing I would like to know;  at the levee mtgs, um I believe that the Agenda should just be available at the mtg along with the mins wherever they're available.  & I also ask that um an extra copy of any hand-outs be made so that I can have a copy of the Agenda as I do already, & a copy of the mins & also a copy of the hand-outs.  DM:  Ok.  MM:  Tku. 


& uh u were going to tell us tonight how much money EM makes as the City Atty, Prosecuting Atty & Levee Counsel.  DM:  I totaled it out for the yr 03.  It starts with 1/16/03 thru 1/14/04;  for the City, total for the yr was $42,624;  the Levee was $138,950;  & those 2 total up $181,574;  & there's a $1000/mo retainer which is of course $12,000;  Prosecuting Atty pays $800/month, for $9,600;  so total for the yr '03 was $203,174.  I've got a copy here if you'd like to have it. But in the future, if there's any other things - I brought this up from the past bills so used somebody in the office to do that, might have to bill u for a (cigarette machine?) here if you'd like to - care to have this (bill?) _ - MM:  Ok, tku.  DM:  Tku. 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  7 of  30


Next I guess the captain - like to - care to introduce uh Colonel Lee.  Good to have him here tonight at our mtg.  ?:  Mayor Michels, Members of the Bd, Ladies & Gentlemen, it's my pleasure to introduce to u tonight, our uh new Chief of Police, Jerry Lee.  He's been a police ofcr with the county for over 33 yrs.  He's been a Division Commanding Ofcr in all 3 of our divisions.  He's very committed to our neighborhood policing philosophy & committed to partnership between the uh the citizens & the police dept in an effort to uh create a better quality of life & reduced crime.  & I think you'll find him a pleasure to work with & it's my pleasure, sir. 


Chief Lee:  Good evening & uh I'd just like to say it's an honor, #1, to be the Chief of Police of St L County.  But it's also an honor to be uh here at VP.  This is one of our premiere contract-cities & uh we've got some great police ofcrs & great commanders & uh we hope to be your police dept for many yrs in the future.  Uh I guess I show my age when I go back a little bit.  One of my bits of memorabilia that I have is - back in the early 70's, I still have my Peerless Park Deputization Card.  & I rode right next to VP for about a yr & a half out here, so I was familiar with Lou Brown & I don't believe uh ES remembers me, but uh (people laugh) -


?:  Oh, yeah he does!  Chief Lee:  He probably does.  But I knew a # of the ofcrs out here & uh we used to work closely with uh VP & uh like I say, I agree with what Tim said, this is a great cmty.  I had the privilege to be in VP Day Parade.  I met several of u at, at, at that, but uh I just want u to know, if there's anything I can do or anybody from our dept, uh my # is 615-4260.  Please feel free to give me a call.  I'd be happy to answer anything & uh like I say, again, tku for inviting me & it's a real honor & a privilege to work with u all & like I say, I look fwd to many yrs to come.  Tku very much.


DM:  Tku. (people applaud)  JW:  I guess George & uh - u got some of your biz cards u could leave?  ?:  Sure.  JW:  Just tryin' to get u back up here _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (people laugh) _ _ _ _ - ?:  Just disregard that thing that says get out of jail free on the back.  (people laugh)  I was at Trivia Night.  ?: _ _ - ?: _ _ - JW:  Tku, sir.  Congratulations _ _ _.  ?: _ _ _ - JW: _ _ _ _ _ _ -  KT:  Congratulations to u. 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  8 of  30


DM:  Next, we have the Bd mtg mins from 6/21 - wbp?  JW?:  Move approval.  KT?: (Approve 'em?) - ?&?:  2nd.  DM:  q/c?  (voice vote - ayes - none heard opposed)  Motion carries. 


Are these the (mins?) from Sacred Heart Church?  MW:  Yes.  Um under licenses & permits, I have a request from uh Father (Broceed?).  They'd like to have a one-day picnic license for their parish festival on 9/25/04.  Uh it'll run from 12, noon to 11pm.  They're also requesting permission to block off Ann Ave, from Forest Ave to Didian during the time of the event.  So I'm asking for approval _ _ _ _ _ -


DM:  wbp?  ?&?:  Move approval.  ?: 2nd.  JW:  YH, ques - I knew they wouldn't be waivered, correct?  MW:  _ the city answer to that?  JW?:  Don't (tell 'em this or tellin' us?) - DM:  _ it would be waivered?  ?: _ - DM: Any other q/c?  (voice vote - ayes - none heard opposed) Motion carries. 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  9 of  30


Aldermanic Cmte Reports - FWM Cmte, 6/28 - TB, Do u have anything - TB: Lucas & Ann, we were gonna have another mtg this Thrus & probably where we'll have a little bit more, we'll have a little more detail for everybody.  _ _ _ 6:00.  DM:  Is this gonna be accepted _ _ - TB:  Yeah, I'll move to accept this & uh we'll have (an update?) later.  KT: I 2nd it.  DM:  q/c?  (voice vote, ayes, none heard opposed)  Motion carries.


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  10 of  30


LEG Cmte - KT.  KT:  Yes, I would like u, I would like u to um - make a motion to pass the uh ald mtg, er LEG mtg, cmte mtg mins.  TB:  I'll 2nd with discussion.  DM:  TB, u have the floor.  TB:  Uh yes, on some of these ords, I'm kinda left vacant.  Later, as far as the uh, the one for the parking on Fernridge...that'd be part of the mins tho...(mtg continues - keywords:  trying/not to shut the street down far as no parking on both sides/one chief's ord...amending Bill # 1774 to include road/street names...copy from Highland Vlg Townhouse Assn Mtg agreeing to copy St L County Ord) 


DM:  Are we talkin' 2 things here?  I'll let - EM asked to speak next here because - KT:  That's right - DM:  because this here, talks - ok & Highland Vlg about no parking on one side - or this is mailboxes what the fire dept - KT: No _ - DM:  is asking about no parking on the south or west side of Fernridge.  So are we combining those or - KT:  Did TB talk - bring up the ord one sentence _ _ - TB:  I, I brought that up.  I, I believe there's 2 separate ords...


(mtg continues - KT agrees, it's 2 separate ords & the 1st has nothing to do with mailboxes.  Issue is brought off the table, back for discussion.  Lt Melies joins the discussion, cmt'g about county ords re parking, mailboxes & specific streets.  DA cmts include that there are reasons why people park where they do. JM also cmts.)...KT:...I've had people from other subdivs calling me & wanting me to make this a city-wide ord & I know it won't happen, but if we have to do it street by street then we will...they're parking not because they don't have room;  they're parking to be malicious to their neighbors. 


DM:  Should we get all the trus, er is all this in the one trustee association - KT:  Yeah.  DM:  all the streets that are listed on this?  KT:  Yes, these are all in one assn.  DM:  & are all the trustees in agreemt that this should go thru 'cause we've had people - KT:  It was, it was voted on by the people of the assn during their mtg in Jan of this yr.  DM:  Do uno what the percentage was, like 60% yes, 30, 40 no, or what was - KT:  It was unanimous.  DM:  Unanimous in favor of this?  KT:  Yes, everybody that came to the mtg. 


DM:  Wbp then on having this ord?  TB:  YH, I would go move approval on this.  We've been haggling about this for the last 4 yrs I know;  (chuckle) this very same item.  If that's what the people in this ward want, I would certainly do it.  DM:  Is there a 2nd?  JKB:  I'll 2nd it.  DM: q/c?  ?: _ _ - DM:  So we already - we're just doing the 2nd reading?  EM:  2nd reading _ _ _ -  MW:  So we're not voting to amend, but we're voting to - TB:  I would also add to, to amend to these streets only _ _ -


EM:  There's no reason to amend it;  that's, that's the way the ord was originally written.  TB:  It says the streets on it?  EM:  Yeah.  TB:  That's what I thought.  MW:  So this motion is _ - KT:  No - EM:  It would be to read it on the 2nd uh - KT:  It didn't have the streets on it.  It said certain streets.  TB:  No, I think this one - MW: Well, it wasn't _ _ _ _ - DM:  This - EM:  But it's written.  MW: _ _ _ _ - EM:  Well, it should've been altercated so then it needs a uh vote on the 1st reading... - MW:  Right.  DM: _ _ _ - EM:  You're right.  MW:  We're readin' it twice.  EM:  You're right.  MW:  So this motion is to read it on its 1st reading?  ?:  Right...


(discussion continues on this topic until)...DM:  I think it'd be best to go ahead & finish up the mins here & then we'll bring up this ord when we get to the portion on ords.  KT:  Tku. 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  11 of  30


DM:  So EM's asked about the uh concealed weapons.  Is that a uh - EM:  I, I'm not sure I understand the, the, the motion & what the bd wants.  The reason to do a concealed weapons ord for the city of VP would be to prohibit concealed weapons in publicly-owned places including city hall.  KT:  That's how we want it to read.  We don't want it to read pocket knives, uh can openers, etc.  We want it to read just exactly like the - EM:  But that's how the state statute reads & those are considered weapons.  EM:  Do u want to just limit it to handguns?  Is that what you're - RH:  Yes.  KT: Yes. 


DM:  Do u make it motion to restrict carrying of handguns, concealed handguns into public (someone sneezes) _?  KT:  Correct.  DM:  Do we have a 2nd?  MP:  Ques.  I'll 2nd it with a ques.  What about knives that u put on the side of your _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - EM:  I guess it would be covered by this ord _ _ - DM?:  It wouldn't say handguns.  _ _ _ _.  ?: _ _ - RH:  Are u sayin' there's no ord now, before the handgun bill was passed?  Talkin' about knives & uh so forth? 


EM:  We have an ord that prohibits the carrying of concealed weapons & as uno, the LEG repealed & now they allow the carrying of handguns as long as u have a permit.  So I guess what you're asking me to do is - I think I, I think I know what u want - u just want to prohibit the handguns, if u have a permit, in public places & not & not define the rest;  & I can do that.  DM:  Say knives would be allowed but handguns would not be?  Even with a permit, a person could not - ?: _ - DM:  bring a concealed handgun _ _ city  -


EM:  I don't think they're probably allowed when they're concealed, right - as long as it's - the state statute's being specific on what concealed weapons are - it's (not?) blackjacks, knives, all that stuff;  & that will probably still be appealed legally - _ _  assume it's _ _ _ _ _ _ _ wouldn't be have to be covered _ _ _ _ I can (request?) _ _ _.


RH: Have u ever seen the school's uh the city schools _ on a handgun?  EM:  No!  RH:  Well I got a copy;  I'll give it to u.  EM:  Ok.  RH:  It doesn't mention anything except guns.  DM:  So it only restricts handguns?  So a person could bring a 3" army knife - RH:  No, I'm sure there was a - um what I'm tryin' to say, there was surely something on the table.  I mean it just didn't become legal or uno all said & now we're - besides guns, we're includin' all this - to me, that was a law before (or?) not.  EM:  It, it was.  What, what we do, we -


RH:  I just wanted a separate, simple ord that makes common sense & not this 4 pages of - EM:  We have a concealed weapons ord.  RH:  Right.  EM:  & that's what I tried to do is tailor what we have in our current ord.  But I, but I understand what u want & I can do that.  RH:  I'm mean I'm not sayin' the Bd approves it yet. 


MMW:  I'll, I'll 2nd that.  DM:  Any other q/c?  MMW:  (chuckling) It just seems like this is getting awfully confusing.  So all we're gonna do is just add on a, a concealed weapon, concealed handgun restriction to our existing - is that what the idea is here?  (no answer heard)  I'll definitely 2nd that.  DM:  q/c?  All in favor of the motion, say (ayes, none heard opposed)  Motion carries.


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  12 of  30


I guess just to clear up Seton Hall, if we get - like we didn't table it last times, just make it easier - for me to direct TW to go up & check out that if somebody'd make a motion to take that off the table & bring it up for discussion.  KT:  YH, uh I forget what his last name is - he called me about these springs - DM:  So are u gonna make a motion?  KT:  & that's why I wanted to bring it out of - off the table.  DM:  Is there a 2nd?  DA:  2nd  DM:  q/c?  All in favor of the motion (ayes, none heard opposed)  Back to the original motion to uh for approval of the LEG Cmte mins.  All in favor (ayes, none heard opposed)  Motion carries.


P&Z for 6/8/04 - wbp?  DA:  Move approval.  TB:  2nd.  DM: q/c?  All in favor, say (ayes, none heard opposed). 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  13 of  30


Image Cmte mins for 5/31 & 6/14, wbp?  ?: _ _ - JW?:  Approval.  DM:  Is there a 2nd?  JKB:  2nd it.  TB?:  Can't hurt if that came out of it.  DM:  q/c?  JW:  I have a ques - TB:  2nd with discussion.  JW:  I see it said $15K budget proposal for flowers, banners & signing.  Wasn't there originally er what - KT:  I have, I have a $20K (bill?).   JWorMP?:  Uno what?  KT:  I'm, I'm requesting $20K now after going thru the uh banner display.  JW:  Yeah, but it didn't say anything about trees in here.  So that's why I was just wonderin' - u listed a lot of stuff but no trees for 15 or - KT:  Ok, I'm sorry, I'll put - can I, can I amend it to say trees also?  (JW? chuckles) 


DM:  We're approving the mins so we'll just note that trees are included - KT:  Trees are included.  DM:  altho the mins didn't include it.  JW:  Well, are we - is this - are we approving the action items?  Are we sayin' she's gonna get $15K for flowers - DM:  She's already - ?: That's  - DM:  bumped it to $20 anyway.  We - we'd wanna - JW:  No, not if we - not if we approve these & it needs an action agenda.  JKB:  YH.  DM:  15 is what's in the mins & then 20's - I guess we need to agree on the 20, 15 or something less _ - ?: _ _ - ?:  _ today - JKB:  YH.  TB:  YH.  DM:  JW has the floor. 


JW:  I, I just think that that is an item that like MMW saw, that, that should be in Finance Cmte.  I don't think this should even be, this $ amt should even be - if u scratch the $ amt, I don't think anybody'd have a problem - KT:  Right, ok. JW: approvin' it.  I just think that 15K - KT:  I'll tell my secretary - JW: is wavin' a flag.  KT:  I'll tell the secretary not to include money amts.  I will cross that off. 


JKB:  That should all be thru budget first, shouldn't it?   We'll be able to bring it up _.  DM: Probably - KT: _ _ - DM:  There is - it'll probably be discussed at this Thursday's budget mtg.  KT: Right.  DM:  Whether it's, it's say 20, 15 or - JW:  _ _ - DM:  Whatever it is.  JW:  _ _ move to accept it _ _ -  DM:  We'll just move to accept the mins;  we won't approve the $ amts as JW said.  KT:  Tku.  DM:  MMW,  Do u agree, we'll accept the mins here since we're gonna discuss the $ amts - MMW:  Yes _ -  DM:  (All the ques's in?)?   JKB: Yes. 


DM:  Tku.  Make a note - acceptance of the mins.  RH,  _ _ - RH:  No, tha's fine, YH.  DM:  Any other q/c?  TB:  Yes, YH, I just wanted to make sure we aren't approvin' any money on this.  DM:  Right.  KT:  Right, _ - DM:  All we're doing is accepting the action _ - ACCEPTING the mins, but not the $ amts.  That'll be Thursday.  All in favor of the motion - (ayes, none heard opposed)  Motion carries. _ _ _ _.   


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  14 of  30


Ords & Resolutions - Bill #1775 - Was it properly posted?  MW:  _ _ _ _ - DM:  _ _ We'll do 1774 1st.  Go ahead, please.  MW:  _ _ _ _ - DM:   Right, we'll do 1774 since it wasn't in this packet tonight.  MW:  Bill #1774 POrd 1635, an ord amending schedule 355.010 mccvp, pertaining to parking prohibited within 8 feet of a public or private mailbox at specified locations...(mtg continues & motion passes to hold it over)...


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  15 of  30


DM:  Next is Bill #1775 - Was this properly posted?  MW:  Yes, it was.  DM:  Please read it in caption form.  MW:  Bill #1775, POrd 1635, an ord approving a preliminary dev plan & a rezoning from PDC to Amended PDC for a dev at 1305 Big Bend Rd, identified as P&Z Pet P2004-03.  DM:  Wbp?  ?&?:  Move approval.  ?:  2nd.  DM:  q/c?  All in favor (ayes, none heard opposed) 


DA:  YH, I make a motion that we read this on the 2nd reading this evening.  RH?:  2nd.  DM:  Any q/c to have a 2nd reading?  All in favor, (ayes, none heard opposed)  MW,  Will u read it in caption form, please.  MW:  (see above)  DM:  Wbp?  DA?:  Move approval.  MMW:  2nd.  DM:  q/c?  (Yes:  DA, JKB, RH, TB, JW...(noted during tape exchange, DM:  Motion carries.)...


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  16 of  30


DM:  We'll draw up an ord for the uh automo-dealership for the next mtg so welcome to speed & (u won't be able to hear?) of course but if u wanna hear, here for the ord vote or else we'll just let uno the next day.  ?:  When would that be?  ?:  That's the next hr. ?: _ _ -  DM:  2 wks from yesterday, 7/19.  You're welcome to stay here for the whole _.  ?:  Tku.  MrB:  Tku.  DM:  Enjoy the ballgame.  ?: _ very much.  ?: _ _ _ - ?:  I'll give u _ _ - ?:  Tku very much.  MrB:  Tks.  DM:  Tku. (many indec mumblings thruout the room)


DM:  Under the Mayor's Report, I've just been given the sad news that Fred Kemp passed away last Thrus.  He was a good friend of the city - last hour of Valley Days up there at Dougherty Ferry & Big Bend - so I guess ask for a moment of silence for him being - since he did so much for us.  DA: YH,  that was just in the past few days?  DM:  Last Thurs _ _ _;  last Thurs _ _ _ _. 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  17 of  30


Under the Mayor's Report, there's been - I guess MMW, KT & I attended a mtg 2 wks ago tomorrow, up at the elementary school, Parkway School Dist, talkin' about Onyx wanting to expand, increase the height of their landfill like 70' & we discussed in the past about the trash transfer.  Fred Weber which is now open & the Peerless Env'l which hopes to be open in about 5 months, they're currently taking recycling materials.  I don't believe - JW, do uno if Peerless does any uh trash right now or they just _ _ _ _ _ -


JW:  Yeah, I don't believe _ - DM:  That's what - I thought that Mrs. Behnen said that they would begin about 5 months from now, actually doin' trash transfer.  As I said in notes here that Fred Weber asked for a 20-yr lease which I can't see committing the city to something like that. 


Onyx said that they would commit to a 1-yr lease with two 1-yr options at the city's option but since we're - we said we'd like to see Onyx close down basically 'cause of all the - basically, er mainly 'cause their truck traffic;  uno it's also unsightly from an env'l standpoint from people going thru a straight (park or part?) down there.  So I don't know wbp's gonna be 'cause it seems like Weber would be doing - willing to do a year or we can wait till Peerless Env'l is open & do a uh nother set of uh bids at that time to see if anybody has changed their prices & what the best price is or - DA:  YH, I'd like - DM:  _ _ direction the Bd wants to go. 


DA:  I'd like to make a motion that the mayor um negotiate a 1-yr um lease with Fred Weber um uno for the uh transfer this.  DM:  Ok.  TB:  2nd, I wouldn't wanna -  KT:  2nd.  TB:  YH.  DM:  TB,  You have the 2nd & the floor.  TB:  No, I didn't - well, just 2nd with discussion, but weren't we presently paid to Onyx? 


DM:  We take it to Onyx & because we don't have time-fact with 'em, we're paying roughly $38 a, a ton;  it goes to we wouldn't commit to some kind of a deal where we know we were taking trash to them.  That's why they came up with this, a deal of $24 a ton.  As I stated earlier, they - & one thing, it's further away;  so we're not necessarily locked into to lowest price...


(mtg continues for quite a while on this topic)...DM:  All in favor of the motion to - MP:  What's the motion?  DM:  Motion is for me to talk to Fred Weber about using a - negotiating a 1-yr contract for the city to haul their sanitation to the yard, er home, er household waste over to their site.  All in favor, say - (ayes, none heard opposed)  Motion carries.  (mumblings thruout the room)


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  18 of  30


Do you have anything for your Clerk's Report, MW?  MW:  No, _ _ _ _. 


DM:  Do you have anything for us tonight, Mrs Kettler, for the Park Coordr's Report?   Pam:  Uh yeah, just an update - uh Great River Greenway, uh we closed on 2 properties in VP - Meramec uh Greenway, the end of July (!) & I'll have a mtg with them 7/14 & with disclosures. 


Uh also uh in August, the 4th Saturday, will be Operation Clean Stream & as a rule, the City of VP has participated in that clean-up.  & also at this time I'm requesting um key members _ _ _.  DM:  Ok, I'll go ahead & auth that.  JM can cite the - use his normal process - 2 employees go to work out there. Pam:  Ok, tku.  Pam:  Tku.


MMW:  Uh just out of - out of curiosity - um with respect to the Meramec Greenway, do we know where there's gonna be like access points to the, to the biking trail, biking/hiking trail, at this point?  Pam:  Well, the actual trail has not been uno designed. (!) 


DM:  _ _ _ - Pam:  But it'll continue - I mean the whole Meramec uh the whole VP Meramec Greenway (someone coughs) is continuous thru Green - Simpson Park & Greentree down there, Sunset Hills at this time. 


MMW:  Ok, are we gonna need to - I mean when would there - when would the time be right to begin or even consider planning the trail & how it's gonna go & where?  Pam:  After all the properties are pretty much bought out. 


But & what we're gonna do there is like 3 phases of it.  & we'll probably contract out with the, the same one that would be Simpson's bought.  MMW:  Ok, that's great.  Pam:  So that uno we, we'll know (9, 8, 7?).   MMW:  Ok, great, tku.  Pam:  But uh uno whenever we get to that point, I'll make sure that you're aware of that.  MMW:  Ok. 


JKB:  I would like to know when this park's gonna be done out there in _ _.  Is it gonna be after budget time between Sept, Aug, after summer's over with? 


Pam:  Well, we had a PKS Bd mtg uh in June which Mr uh Soto took mins & I haven't seen the mins from that PKS mtg.  Therefore, they haven't been presented to the Bd, so the Bd hasn't voted on that;  but at that time, the Park uh Cmte did recommend that we pay uh - send money to do a uh a grant from St L County for recycled materials for those svcs for that park. 


JKB:  Yeah, but how long is it gonna take to get this grant?  - JKB:  A yr -  Pam:  Whenever u guys - JKB: 2 yrs?  Pam:  (approve?) the money, I think it'll probably move pretty quick.  But uh I mean, without the mins, u guys can't approve the use of to get the money.  


DM:  Do u think we could u could get a grant in 30 days?  Pam:  He seemed to think we could.  DM:  'cause I don't think it's worth the wait until Oct & then get the grant.  I'd rather like to see that tomorrow as JKB was sayin' - Pam:  Well, we can put the gravel in there tomorrow.  I mean that, uno.  DM:  Why would gravel be better than what we've got now?  'cause I think probably the gravel - Pam:  All our park systems that we have now, currently have pea gravel on 'em;  Vance Trails & Leonard Pk, that's what we have. 


DM:  Where will we get the money?  Pam:  We have to take it outta budget.  & you guys haven't DM:  IT'S NOT - Pam:  approved the - DM:  IN THE - Pam:  budget.  DM:  BUDGET is my point.  Pam:  U guys haven't approved the budget yet.  We're gonna use it for playground I guess.


  DM:  I mean it wasn't in PKS from this past yr.  We have to wait until a new budget is approved, is that what u're saying?  Pam:  Basically, yes.  DM:  Ok.  (Well or we'll?) just make sure that 6K is in for the new pea gravel.  Pam:  Yeah, I gave u a copy of the budget or u still -  DM:  Right - Pam:  got a copy of it - DM:  I do have it, yes.  Pam:  whoever don't _ _ _ _ _.  DM:  Ok.  Tku.  (KT chuckles)


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  19 of  30


DM:  PBW Coordr's Report - JM.  JM: Good evening.  Uh just a small report - as uno, myself has been workin' pretty close with DC & ESI & the COE, EM & TW on some levee issues.  & last wk when DC was on vacation, we successfully, uh along with ESI, removed the force main that was down in the Sportsplex area. 


Um it was gonna actually cost the city probably about 15 to $18K to have that grouted in.  & um doing some negotiating with ESI, um I successfully had them remove that. 


We vested in some of the work along woods beside them & they removed that at no cost to the city. 


& uh last wk the employees took down one of the houses on Pyramid that the city had took ownership on & we completed all the asbestos inspections, abatemt of utilities, things of that sort. 


Um we've been doing some patching of potholes, um cutting them of ROW's & cleaning up from Valley Days & things like that. 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  20 of  30


Um the other 2 items that I would have is - JW brought up, an update on the Morton Grove storm sewers.  There's never been any monies aprop'd from the Bd at this time for the city to um proceed with anything.  Uh Tom did a sketch.  We discussed it with some residents, I believe yourself.  Then Candidate MP um was up there & uh we got some responses that, that are, that are pretty good, uno roughly $25K to be spent there. 


& at this time, I haven't had - we don't have authn to uh spend Fund 17 money on this project & I'm in the process of going to the Mayor & gettin' permission to spend Fund 17 money to do some street improvemts as far as patching concrete streets & things like that. 


DM:  Don't we have a plan?  It didn't necessarily come frorm TW - was something that - do some of the work up there, just saying, for the 25K - the crew?  Because crew did a really good job there along Jefferson so in that area vs more on the street so that's some of the - I think they could do a good job up behind those houses takes on water. 


Frank Ferguson showed me a couple of things of, of water comes down off that new house at 1260 thru his yard which the curb, which the PBW crews put in that's helping keep the water on Jefferson rather than thru the yards there.  Think we could look at it if we get the money for the material?  That we'll do that plan that we've got - I guess - JM:  We have - DM: they came out of that mtg with. 


JW:  Yeah, that was the whole ideal - DM: Ok - JW:  was to take care of that - _ _ run the new haul - DM:  Right. JW:  to the (lake?) - DM:   any problems _ - JM:  I didn't - I, I - DM:  Just wanna make sure that's what would preferable to do _ -


JM:  Yeah, I'm still assuming that we're gonna spend roughly $25K based on Tom & I figures on Merrill's equipmt, purchasing of material.  & I'll probably have some legal obligations about technical permission to be able to talk to Fire Dept - be able to replace some existing storm types.  Uh we're still talkin' roughly $25K.  


MP:  I was in at that mtg with Moritz.  I thought they were sayin' 50K. 


JM:  The # I got was, was 25K.  It, it could come in under that;  it could come in over thatUm I'm more in the line of directin' the boys that order material.  I'm, I'm not a, a very good estimator.  I, I took some #'s from TW.  MP:  Well, I mean - JM:  Yeah.  MP:  I didn't say yeah 'cause I thought I heard that that night.  It was gettin' dark that night & the light was sort of scattered out.  Tku, YH.  DM:  Any other q/c? 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  21 of  30


TB:  I have a ques for Jim.  I was just curious on what the safety lights on the pick-up trucks you were gettin' -  the lights u were asking for or - JM:  They are ordered & purchased.  They're on back-order.  Uh I've got an employee returning a call tomorrow.  Uh they're supposed to see if they're in.  I called the biz today & the storm that we had last night shut the biz down.  They didn't have no power, no phones or anything, so I got a hold of the salesman on his cell phone.  If the electric's up, he's gonna get in the computer & if the parts in, we're gonna get 'em in;  but we're waitin' on parts to come in & back-order 'em. 


TB:  Well now I just didn't see any safety lights on that (bid?) out there.


?:   _ taken' care of - ?:  YH.  DM:  MMW, I've got trees along Vance Rd.  MMW:  Yes, but I have a - what kind of lights did u end up gettin' for the - JM:  Basically, there's an aerial stick that will be in the back window that will have dishen, different functions that will - uno if u're sittin' behind that - like a function arrow will be pointin' to u to go to the right to go around me or to the the left, or I can make 'em flash & there's several things - so that several different things so that -


MMW:  Were these the same kind at one point, u were talkin' about something on top of the truck & then at one point, there was strobing light - are these the same - was this - JM:  This is same, this is the same thing.  MMW:  Ok.  JM:  There is & also there'll be a, a yellow & white caution, magnetic caution light on the top of the vehicle.  So it's a 2-light system per truck.  U should be able to see it from any direction. 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  22 of  30


DM:  MMW, u have the trees.  MMW:  Yeah, yeah, I was, I, I don't know whether that's uh, a homeowner's or whether it's us or whether it's a St L County ord, but a lot of the trees when u get a tree like uh down towards (Fish Ellison's?) sidewalk on Vance,  they're hangin' over pretty bad.  & _'s really short & she couldn't even walk under 'em.  (people chuckle)  & some of 'em are pushing out on the sidewalk so u can't - they're, they're really kind of restricting the traffic flow _ _ _ _ down by there as well.  I didn't know if that was us to trim them or whether it's a homeowner's tree. 


EM:  I think that's Mission Hills - JM:  The, the history of that is it's a County ROW.  The city financed & constructed the sidewalk.  Mission Hills maintains the grass in the common grounds in front of their subdiv.  Maint of it would actually fall under St L County unless Mission Hills would accept that. 


DM:  Who put the - I thought Mission Hills initially put the trees in & put the sidewalk, but the city agreed to move the trees & then - so I thought the trees were still _ - JW: _ _ - DM:  Mission Hills.  JM:  That, that very could've well could be true, YH.  I'm not for sure who paid for the trees.  I just - I know who put the sidewalk in & who maintains the ROW of the street.  If there's any special agreemts, I'm not sure of what they would be, honestly.


DM:  I'll see if their trustee remembers what _ _ _ _ _ _ - JM:  I do know that the city ended up repurchasin' them trees because they planted 'em where the sidewalk was to be & the city ended up - when they const'd the sidewalk, diggin' 'em up & payin' for them was like u said, but I don't know.  DM:  Who _ _ _ _ _ _ _ -


7/6/04 BOA/PBH- Section  23 of  30


MMW, u asked about the stop signs in Glen Eagles.  MMW:  Yeah, I don't know again, this is a ques.  So I know there is, there is at least 2 places...(mtg continues on this topic until)...DM:  MMW, Are u gonna talk to the trustees there or do u want the city to send a letter?  MMW:  Yeah, no, no, I'll, lemme go, lemme go _ - DM:  Ok.  MMW:  I'll go talk to 'em soon as I - I'm spending a lot of time on this sort of things but _ _ - KT:  YH. 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  24 of  30


JM:  On the Mission Hills subject - I know the gentleman was here to discuss the water problems &, & I was up at his house a few wks ago um re an issue about a neighbor dumpin' some dirt & fodder & debris in a catch basin &, & I cleaned that up.  & he is right, there is some water issues there.  Um I'm not for sure how much that is city responsibility & homeowners' responsibilities.  The saying out there is that the devr put the sump pumps in & pumped it out on the city streets;  that's not true. 


Now there may be some springs that's coming out in there that could be a city responsibility, but in the 9 yrs that I've worked for the City of VP, those subdivs had been completed & developed & there's 300% more sump pumps drainin' out on the road now than there were then.  So - & I can actually take u very near Mr Harvey's house & u can see where one of his neighbors currently just recently drained his sump pump out to the street because u can see the fresh grass growin' where the sump pump's comin' out. 


MMW?:  'cause that would be _ _.  EM:  U'd have to look & see where the flowage is coming from.  MMW:  U can't pump sump in, right into the street?  DM:  It's gone to the rest of the street.  I can't, can't believe he reported it.  EM:  U'd have to see where the flow lines are & if what he's doing is going into uh, a storm water sewer, that would be one thing, but if he's creating a nuisance in the street, he's not allowed to do that.  MMW:  _ _ _ corner, so I know what he's been usin' it on _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ directly to the street - ?:  not a sani_ _ _?  MMW:  Yeah. 


JM:  Me, myself & the previous Cmty Dev Dir discussed this because it had came up several times before with the Mayor.  We, we've looked at this.  It never got addressed with the Bd.  One of Joe's solutions was that he didn't -  he felt there should be an ord that u couldn't discharge to the city thing without, within so many feet of a public ROW...(mtg continues on this topic & trees leaning over Vance Rd) 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  25 of  30 


(Mtg continues re some Crescent Springs residents running around spreading rumors that the city already wants to overlay their street & _ _ & that no slabs have been replaced this summer in Crescent Woods Subdiv)  JM:  The Bd has taken them - all of my privileges for Fund 17 away & I have not - I, I couldn't tell u if we replaced any in Jan or Feb.  I, I don't remember the weather pemittin' us.  We replaced about 12 slabs up there in late Winter, uh & we have not replaced any then.  & until the Bd auth's me funds um on slab replacemt, it is at a halt.  Uh it's one of the things that we'll be discussin' in budget mtgs 'cause uh I'm gonna ask the Bd if possibly give me x amt of $'s out of Fund 17 to continue to replace 'em - certain slabs. 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  26 of  30 


DM:  MP, u'd asked about Crescent Springs escrow, is that a part of this?  MP:  Well, I was just - they were - we were up there & they were arguing between them;  the streets are cracked.  I was just wonderin' if they've got their money kicked back to 'em, McBride.  DM:  They've got part of it but I'm not sure exactly what - if it's half or _ - EM:  Get a, get a letter by them.  DM:  Right.  MP?:  It came too late.  EM:  Said that.  Then we're gonna have to vote & see if he agrees to that.  ?: _ _ - EM:  After this recon.


JM:  I believe we're voting (indec bkgd talking) &, & double-voted it 'cause I'm not - it's not my partner, but I believe we're holding 'em up to $50K to fill in their escrow.


MP:  Well, what I'm asking also is the one man who lives on the end of the cul-de-sac down there, he says that he, his detention, their detention pond is washing out for the creek that's havin' the problem - Crescent Valley.  The creek goes thru there - $300K creek at (crest of the or Crescent?) hill. 


DM:  JM,  Can u check tomorrow & see if that Crescent - for the base of this, washing out the fire?   Have somebody check to see if the base is washing out on the streets or brick.  JM:  I, I can definitely go up there & review the streets & take a look at the, at the um - _ -  DM:  Go ahead & take a digital camera - JM:  er the uh det basins.  DM:  if u would please.  Take a few shots.  If there's any cracks in the - so u can let me probably know - JM:  I could make -  DM:  about slab prevention.  JM:  I can make recommendations on the street, but ...(noted during tape exchange, JM:  det basins are not my forte.)...


JM:...look at it & the other thing is, is, is this particular resident, MP has called me - been a little rough with Roxanne.  & with the elimination of our Cmty Dev Dept, he set the escrow up & did all of these items.  She, she asked him to give us a list of things that he was unhappy with so we could direct our eng as to where we're going at this.  We don't have that dept & he claimed he was working closely with JEM & he, he really didn't wanna do that.  He didn't want - & so there wasn't a whole lot of coop from this resident with Roxanne in order us to give uh TW direction. 


MP:  Well, I understand.  Just he called me & I guess he'd give me a list.  I said no, I'd rather just send it there to the city hall;  & so that's what that's all about.   & there was a guy from McBride there too that said they didn't touch any of that creek - & they don't have to worry about anything is what, what he's tryin' to say;  uno poor little man, McBride, he was sayin'.   He said that they didn't touch any part of that creek, it's none of their problem.   JW:  It's uh upstream.  MP:  Not upstream, no, it won't _ _ with their property he's saying. 


DM:  There was a basin called out on a plan as I recall.  JM:  A det basin or retention basins.  DM:  So see if they - have TW review the det basin.  I know it's the hard way, but - JM:  I, I know TW, myself & JEM reviewed that probably back in March when we had some heavy rains & there was some ques's re that.  & I actually had to go out there, physically, man-work, do the flap gate, & at that time, TW & JEM felt that everything was working properly;  could've been a lot of erosion take place between March & June & July.


MP:  Well, that's what u said, but just (in the length?) - DM:  We'll see what we've got in the ord.  JM:  I can, I can ask TW to review it.  I, I don't know if EM knows uh anything as to what would be the devr's responsibility.  That's what I don't know.  I don't know what's devr's responsibility.  MP:  Well, I got a copy of the ord to know that there ain't nothin' in there other than (gate?), gettin' an esmt for all the different utilities indicated - that these others (would open it?) - DM:  Ok, we'll have TW review it - bring it up next mtg.  MP:  Tku.  DM:  _ _.  Anything else for JM?   Do u have anything else, JM, for us? 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  27 of  30 


JM:  Yes, YH, I apologize for prolongin' this thing - DM:  Oh, I missed one other letter _ _ - JM:  I, I took in longer tonight than I probably have in 6 months.  There was a discussion on a topic put on the agenda about makin' my position salaried. 


I would hope that the bear would -  the Bd would use fair judgemt if they think that I would go on salary for my current hourly wage &, & continue to do this job & work the excessive hrs;  & my employees underneath me, would get overtime & at the end of the FY, they'd make more money than me.  I don't think that would be fair.  I'm not opposed to workin' hourly or salaried.  I just would hope that the Bd would discuss this, look at some of my previous yearly incomes & discuss this in budget mtgs or, or something. 


JKB:  I'd like to put this in FWM.  DM:  Ok, I'll place if by exec action in for this Thrus.  JM:  Tku, JKB. 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  28 of  30 


KT: _ _ _ _ YH, may I?  DM:  JM, Do u wanna discuss the letter about the cat problem in town or is that just - (they laugh) JM:  Yeah, I, if the Bd wantsa direct me to purchase those & I think Scott uh Lt Melies uno came to me with this solution & I think it's worth tryin'.  It's a minimal cost to the city & maybe we can resolve some of the cat problems.  LtM said he would write up some procedures.  Um I really think it's worthwhile.  I'm not tryin' to cut the Bd off, but (chuckle) I think -


DA?:  YH,  the mayor can do that on his own.  I think maybe John would be good _ _.  (KT chuckles)  JW: (like bkgd) _ _ _ _ cat with the (herpes?)?  DM:  LtM,  Do u have any idea how many traps we need?  Or have u got - that's something we can discuss after the mtg then to see what we can do to try to - JM:  I would recommend that we purchase 2.  DM:  2, ok.  RH:  & give 'em to JKB.  (they chuckle)  JKB:  I'll make a motion to disburse for 2.  MMW?:  I'll 2nd.  DM:  All in favor - (ayes)  All opposed - JW:  County Police has got a cat patrol or something, don't they already?  (people laugh) _ u guys call Cat Team?   ?:  We told u we were a full-svc police dept.  JW:  Bring the Cat Team just down here?  DM: _ _ I didn't know he _ - (laughter continues thruout) JW:  Scott got an in-division cat too _ _ - RH:  Why don't we just get some mean dogs?  JM:  Tku, YH. 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  29 of  30 


DM:  Real quick uh, KT, I missed part of your - in Public Image - the daily reports _ _ - KT:  I would like to ask the Bd to approve um $400 for me for 19 flowering trees which I've already purchased & put on my credit card because - JW: _ _ - KT:  they are - JW: _ _ - KT:  they are 6 to 8'.  I've already seen 'em;  I've got 'em on a cart, waitin' for uh them to pick up & it's on my credit card.  If u don't agree - JW: _ - KT:  to it, I guess I'll plant 19 trees.  But with the planters & I kind of drew in a picture of the trees.  I've got enough to go on every corner, north & south corner of St L Ave. 


Um &, & u gotta, kinda just uno - JW: (chuckling) use your imagination?  KT:  use your imagination.  (the room laughs)  JKB:  YH.  KT:   &, & - DM:  JKB, wait 'cause she still has the floor.  KT:  & with the planters & the dirt - TB?:  Put a cat _ (ap stilll aughing) - KT:  it definitely - DM?:  _ cats in the trees - KT:  would not exceed $400.  JKB:  _ dogs too. 


MP:  YH, ques.  DM:  JKB, u have the floor - JW:  I move, I move approval - DM:  then MP. JW:  We gotta have some discussion.  JKB: Is it alright with the County for us to put stuff along their ROW?  KT:  & I, I will talk with the County & last yr when I talked to 'em, they agreed that as long as we maintain it, it's _ - DM:  Make sure it's not in the vision - I think they call it _ - KT:  Right, right, they won't be in a vision of the stop signs or the on-coming traffic.  JKB:  St L Ave _ _ - KT: They're flowering trees - ?: _ - ?: _ - KT:  & they'll - ?:  I was waitin' for _ - KT:  still flower until -


JW:  I, I move to approve the - how much was it 400 - KT:  $400 - DM:  Is there a 2nd?  KT:  with the planters.  ?:  I'll 2nd with discussion.  KT: &, & the reason I - RH:  If she doesn't do it again?  KT: wanna put them in planters is so that we can move them uh if the street gets changed in any way uh or if we choose to not have 'em any more, to plant them somewhere else.  & this was 19 trees for under $100.  I was at Lowe's & got - DM:  What's the other 300 u need for?  KT: Planters & dirt.  & I'm not saying that it's gonna come to 400, but I missed the sale -


JW:  But u paid 400.  KT:  on the planters.  JW:  But u paid $400.  KT:  I paid for the trees!  DM:  So it was $100.  KT:  &, &, & the planters would've been $150, so um - JW:  _ _ _ - KT:  & they're bigger than the uh barrels.  So if I can find the deal to get 'em for $7.50 - ?: _ - ?: _ - KT:  & I would like to have the Bd's approval for it.  DM:  Would this be Public Image Cmte?  KT:  Public Image Cmte. 


DM:  MP, u asked for the floor. ?: _ _ - DM:  I know sometimes _ _ - MP:  That's ok 'cause I mean it's just a couple ques's.  We just had this discussion about trees bein' on the corner & u're not seein' around & uno blockin' stop signs.  & sure they're gonna be in pots at this end - ?:  Who dug the holes?  MP:  Uno u're, u want $400 for the trees.  I think it's great for Public Image - ?: _ - ?: _ _ - MP:  & then what's the cost to plant 'em?  KT:  I don't know.  I planned on planting them.  MP:  Our cost - u're not gonna plant 'em all.  Our cost to go feed 'em & _ _ _.  We're, we're complainin' about a park that has no pea gravel with benches & _ _ _ _ & we're gonna pass money for trees!  Just got caught (in gold?) & it's no streets are gettin' any kind of maint, no, no new concrete for some of the streets - (it's a buyout?).


KT:  Well, like I said it's up to the Bd.  If not, I'll plant 19 trees in front of house.  ?: _ _ _ - RH:  U can plant 'em in front of my house.  TB:  I was just takin' a look at this picture...KT:...The tree is only supposed to get to be 8' tall.  DA:  YH,  If I could real quickly, I'll support this on this particular time, but one request tho before u actually plant the trees & place 'em there, let's get it in writing from St L County that they said we could do it.  KT:  Oh, definitely.  DA:  & then, probably in the future, it'd probably be better to check 1st.  I understand u took advantage of good deal, but probably be better to ask 1st.  But I'll support it on this time -


KT:  Hey, no, I uno, I'll plant 19 trees in my uh, along Vance Rd if I have to.  I was tryin' to save the city about $10K.  DM:  What kind of trees are these?  ?:  Yeah (chuckle) - ?:  (female, but not KT) Yeaahh!!  (people laugh)  JW:  What are u plantin'?  Is it legal?  (more laughter) KT:  Well, the next - JW:  Re, really!!  (people crack up)   KT:  JW goes ahead & buys trees for $10K.  JW:  Oh no, we went out for bids.  I beg your pardon.  (KT chuckles)  I got more _ -


DM:  All in favor of buyin', payin' for the trees, say aye - (voice & roll call vote:  Yes:  DA, RH, TB, JW, KT, MMW.   No: JKB, MP.)  MW:  6 yes, 2 no.   DM: Motion carries. 


7/6/04 BOA/PBH - Section  30 of  30


Lt Melies, u get to follow that. (people chuckle)  LtM:  My formal report will be the 2nd mtg of the month & I'd be happy to answer any ques's.  JW:  I got one, YH.  Real quick  _ _ _ u asked about.  Scott, uh some of the neighbors noticed that there's been an increase in their neighborhood patrol.  They sayin' they're seein' more cars.  Have u changed anything because this guy watches u better than uh George - (people laugh) if that's possible. 


LtM:  I'm just - I'm happy that somebody's noticed the police out there. JW:  Has there been an increase?  Have u changed anything around where there is more patrols or something?  'cause this guy swears that he sees cars he never seen before.  He doesn't drink either, so - (people laugh) - ?:  _ other than police cars.  LtM:  Same # of people that are working here as before.  JW:  Just seems like they're out on the road a little better.  Tks.  DM:  Any other ques's?


KT:  YH, yes, I also got a good cmt from people along Fernridge & uh Lookout, where there was not supposed to be so much traffic going thru.  & those people wish to tku, police dept & VP, for the uh amt of traffic that has stopped going down those streets.  So Lt Melies is doin' a good job.  LtM:  Tku.  


(mtg continues with KT presenting certificates funded by Public Image to MW, JM & the guys in the shop for helping during Valley Days.  KT already gave certificates to the ladies in the office.  Mtg adjourned.)