Notes:  Mtg time about 5:04 - 5:53 pm. 


Present:   RW,  DM,  DS,  BW,  TW,  CLM,  JZ,  EM (arrived about 5:15),  TB,  JKB.   


Also Present:  Chuck Ford, VP Municipal Judge, here on behalf of the school;  Jim Mitas of Cgsm Akin's office;  Vivian Blackman, VP Resident & Business Owner (arrived about 5:10);  & Andy McCord of Phoenix Env'l, alias DG Purdy & Assoc.



11/15/04 LEV - Section  1 of  21  


DM:...I say, I passed the sheet around to get everybody's name on there, so I'll call this to order & since DC had a minor surgury so he's out recouperating this evening.  CLM:  Was that connected with his uh whatever surgery he had?  DM:  I think he's recouperating from that I believe, yes.  CLM:  Did he have to go back & have 'em fixed or something?  DM:  No, I think he's just resting up;  that's the way I understand it, so.  I think it was the last Wednesday he went in & then he should, he should be up & around within a few days.  CLM:  Oh, so he has add'l (surgery?)?  DM:  Right, yeah.  I didn't know what surgery he was talkin' to.  CLM:  I hope he's doin' well.  DM:  I think so.  Call this to order & advise - please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.  (At least one ended by saying, "with Liberty & Justice forever".)


DM:  I have a request here from MM.  Any other additons for the agenda for tonight?  JZ:  Yeah, I've got uh of one I want to talk about, a mitigation area that we're - Eric, are u gonna do a purchase order for it?  (No response heard) 


& also, I'd recommend that u change Item 7C to read, Funding for FY '05 & '06.  DM:  Ok.  We're already in '05, FY.  JZ:  Yeah, we're in, we're in that now.  CLM:  Uno, u can go buy from Jane Collins _ _ _ _ she lives (out there?).  _ _ _ _ gonna be back up in _ _ - DM:  Is there a motion to approve the agenda as amended?   JKB:  Make a motion.  DM:  2nd?  TB?:  2nd.  DM:  All in favor.  (ayes - none heard opposed)


DM:  Anyone care to - I don't know if we got an agenda - um what's the word for - ?: _ _ - DM:  No, um well, for the mins, but we haven't a quorum - there we go.  I was thinkin' if we have a quorum - let's go ahead & vote on it tonight anyway.   _ _ get a chance to read the mins?  If we want, we can hold it over to the - I don't know if Eric has 'em every one 'cause I didn't ever see 'em.  So we'll just - RW:  Well, there isn't any mins.  DM:  Well, I didn't know if he got 'em mailed yet - DS:  He's probably 6 months behind.  DM:  But I didn't think we had 'em 'cause we didn't have a mtg last time so just save the mins (someone coughs) _ future time. 


11/15/04 LEV - Section  2 of  21  


Item 4B Update.  JZ:  Well, uh u saw the notes that Eric attached to the um invitation to the mtg, to the agenda for the mtg which says the contractor - the wk of 10/11, the contractor progress halted due to rain;  same thing for the wk of the 18th;  same thing for the wk of the 25th;  same thing for the wk of the 1st.  So basically, the contractor's not making much progress in the past 4, 4 or 5 wks because of rain.  They've been doing some work but uh on the 3rd St gravity drain I know, but I, I don't really have any, any news.  I think, think progress has been slow for the last month. 


DM:  Do uno if June is still their uh objective date?  Or does this push that back?  JZ:  Uno I, I asked uh for an update;  I don't have it yet.  I, I don't think the contractor's - far as I know, that's, that's still the date.  DM:  Ok.  JZ:  But I've also asked them for fiscal 05 schedule & I don't have that yet - uno by month, what they expect to earn by month & when they'll be done (someone coughs)?:  _ _ - TW:  Probably by his picture _.  JZ:  It, it certainly could.  I just don't know & I _ _ know _ specific problem.   CLM:  That wouldn't be factored that in to_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.  JZ:  I don't know.  DM:  (Getting?) any other ques's on that or _ _ _ just wait for -


11/15/04 LEV - Section  3 of  21  


JZ:  Um there's one other thing that uh came up last time.  Maybe I'll just talk about it now a little bit.  Um it has to do with interest (int) & how we pay int to the contractor for Item 4B.  & I didn't have good answers the last time, but I looked (chuckle) I looked at the uh the contract after our mtg.  &, & uno in the contract, it's got a sec called Prompt Paymt for Const Contracts;  that's part of our contract with uno Env'l Specialists. 


It says the due date for making paymts is 14 days after getting a, a, an invoice that has all, that meets all the requiremts, so.  Then later on, it says that um, there's a sec on Int Penalty, bascially paying int to the contractor when u haven't paid the bill & the designated paymt ofc will pay an int penalty AUTOMATICALLY.  So it's just - the con, the contractor doesn't even have to ask, doesn't have to ask for it uno continuously;  it's just part of the, part of the contract.  So 14 days after uh u have a legitimate invoice, if u haven't paid, then int starts accruing automatically. 


& then there's another sec called uh Computing the Penalty Amt - Gov't will compute the Int Penalty in accordance with the OMB Prompt Paymt & Regulations in 5 uh CFR, part 1315;  & so u get into that!  One of the ques's that was asked is uno is it compounded int.  Well, there's a formula for the int that's paid & basically it's simple DAILY int, but then when u get to a month, it's compounded monthly.  


I mean there's, there's formulas in here which um which all go into our spreadsheet that determines how much we owe the contractor.  So when we make a paymt, I mean uno when we finally get some money to make a paymt, it automatically uh looks at the date we make that paymt & it determines the amt of int we owed on that amt of money that we paid & then the int is figured into it & paid to the contractor as well. 


So, let's just say we had a M dollars available, tell uh Const I can pay it, I have a M dollars & they figure out with this spreadsheet uh how much of that would be principal & how much is int.  So uno, maybe, maybe _ payin' uh $950K worth of principal & $50K worth of int, depending on how long it's been - the bill's been out there uno accruing int.  So that's just for - that's just some info to uh give u better info than I did last time we met!


11/15/04 LEV - Section  4 of  21  


CFord:  I don't know everybody around the table & some people don't know me;  my name is Chuck Ford.  Tonight I'm here for the - on behalf of the School Dist.  JZ:  Umhm.  CFord:  Um uh what is that int rate?  JZ:  It's 4.5 % right now.  It changes by law every once in a while, but it was - it's 4.5% at the moment. 


CF:  So are u talkin' about the situation where the contractor knew that we weren't gonna have the money & proceeded - u said he proceeded anyway?  JZ: Right.  CF:  What, was it a given that he was gonna get that int penalty awarded?  JZ: Yes.  CLM:  Sure, it's in the contract!  DM:  U said it's automatic - CF:  Well, just 'cause it's in the contract, that doesn't mean it's gotta be agreed to when, when he knows we don't have the money. 


CLM:  Yeah.  The gov't signs the contract;  he signs the contract;  there's a legal obligation between the 2 parties.  If the contract says he will be paid int under certain conditions, then he knows he's gonna get the int paid to him.  CF:  How much int is that gonna be?  CLM:  It depends on how much money that the COE has each month to pay whatever he invoices - JZ:  We've - CLM:  & how much the invoice - JZ:  We've got a - we have had in the past, uh a - CLM:  Jesus! 


JZ:  a spreadsheet that the -  CF:  JESUS ?!  U, u don't like ques's?  CLM:  Yeah!  CF:  Did that contract - did that contract call for him to have to go ahead & proceed if we didn't have the money?  CLM:  No.  CF:  No, he - CLM:  That's his choice.  CF:  What?  CLM:  It's his choice.  CF:  It's his choice, but it's our choice whether or not he's gonna incur that penalty & int. 


CLM:  U mean it's OUR choice.  CF:  Well, we don't have to let him proceed if it's gonna cost us an extra - CLM:  Who's WE?  Answer my ques.  Who's we?  CF:  Who, who, who's the other side of the contract to?  CLM:  The fed gov't.  CF:  Ok.  JZ:  We've had discussions - CF:  He just - well, u - & I, I told u, I'm, I'm not - JZ:  No, but - CF: _ of the mtgs, but - JZ: let me explain - CF:  It's a ques that begs to be asked 'cause that's gonna be a lotta money.  U don't bill when uno u're not gonna - u don't even know what your, what your revenues are gonna be, much less when they're gonna come in.


JZ:  Um we've discussed int - CLM:  It'd be alright if u'd been to all the mtgs, u'dve heard this discussed.  JZ:  We've discussed - CF:  Well, just, just bear with me, ok?  CLM:  Yeah, we tried.  CF:  I, I don't think u are.  


DM:  I think JZ can answer best;  go ahead please, Jim.  JZ:  Well, we discussed the fact that the contractor - there's, there's a clause in the contract that allows the contractor to continue working even tho he's not being paid.  & that also, there's other - CF: His option?  JZ:  His option & also our um uno our responsibility to pay int if he does that.  


But the uh, the CITY, the spon, the non-fed sponsor, has been uh VERY PLEASED that the contractor is, is continuing to build this levee to, to complete the job without - CF:  What, what recalculations made that - JZ:  Because, because we wanna get the project built - CF:  I, I understand that!  JZ:  to protect the cmty from flooding. 


CF:  But does anybody have a handle on how much, how much extra int is gonna be paid on that?  JZ:  Uh I, I don't have it with me right now, but we had, we've provided tables that were developed at a certain point in time, projecting uno what was actually expended, projecting what the expenditures would be thru the rest of FY 04, thru Sept;  & then showing the, the int that would be earned. 


CF:  & what where are they?  JZ:  Where are they?  CF:  Yeah, where, where are those tables - JZ:  Well, I've got 'em.  CF:  if I wanted to take a look at 'em?   JZ:  I've got 'em in my file.  I don't have 'em with me tonight.  CF:  Well good.  JZ:  & so - CF?:  Now how old - JZ:  so that's what - CF?:  are those gonna be?  JZ:  it was one of the things I've asked for also which I don't, I didn't have yet because the con - I mentioned the contractor hasn't provided his schedule for earnings in FY 05, starting 10/1. 


But with that, we will, uno we will show what kind of money we have to pay the contractor & we would also compute the int that expect, that's expected, ok.  So, so that all will be a, a very, I'd say a better picture of what's expected.  CF:  & when, when's that gonna be come due?  JZ:  Uh well, we have to get the contractor's schedule 1st.  CF:  When does the contract call for that to be produced?  JZ:  Uh I'm not absolutely sure, but we'll get it periodically.  I think the fact that he's been slowed down with wet weather is probably - he's kind of - speculating that he probably had a schedule that he has to adjust because he hasn't been making progress due to rain. 


CLM:  Is your ques how much int is he going to earn for the time the contract is open?  CF:  Well, I, I, I would anticipate somebody says we don't know yet.  CLM:  That's correct.  CF:  But I think we, we'd know at this point in time based on - CLM:  No - CF: what he's billed - CLM:  No - CF:  & by the paymt schedule, how much he's, how much he's due now.  CLM:  We know what he's due now, but we don't know how much it's gonna cost by the end of the contract. 


CF:  & how much is he due now?  CLM:  The COE has that info.  CF:  I, I just, I'd like to see his schedule.  JZ:  Ok.  That's fine. 


11/15/04 LEV - Section  5 of  21  


TB:  Did we not get an extra 2M or something where we paid up - JZ:  We, we - TB:  thru Sept?  JZ:   At the end, in Sept, we had a little more, more than 2M transferred into the, into the project & we just put that in the Const Contract 'cause it, it was the end of the fed FY & so monies became available in other projects projects around the country - ?: Right.  JZ:  & we put, we rcv'd a little over 2M & put that in the contract. 


TB:  We _, we got like 2M extra & - JZ:  But we still didn't pay the contractor everything he'd earned in FY, FY 04.  CLM:  That was money over & above what Congress aprop'd - TB:  Right, we got that from other projects that - CLM:  That's right.  JZ:  Right.  TB:  that didn't spend that.  But I was kind of under the understanding that we was, it was kind of, pretty much take us up to being paid in full -  JZ:  No _ - TB:  end of Sept.  JZ:  No.  TB:  No? 


JZ:  He had earned like $8M in FY 04, roughly, & uno we had only paid, like 4, uno something like uh 3 something, 3 something Million in fed & some non-fed.  So we were, we still owe the contractor over $4M at the end of the FY (till after we paid?) him $2M. 


TB:  & was part of this on this int I thought was some of it, we HAD OUR share of the funds, did we not, & where they've gone up - CLM:  U got - TB:  were we gonna - CLM:  U got - TB:  kind of divide that up as far as int & uh uno fed gov't?  JZ:  U have your share - I mean u have your share I think of the uh of the funding to pay the contractor.  TB:  Right. 


JZ:  But, but there's another law (chuckle) that says we can't - we have to kind of maintain a balance between the fed funds & the sponsor funds.  So whenever we get fed funds, I can come & ask u for your share of sponsor funds;  but I can't ask u for - I, I mean I can't ask u for or accept uno like say ALL of the sponsor funds ahead of time.  It, it is would be a mismatch with the fed funds. 


EM:  Yeah, at one point when this became obvious that it was gonna happen, we, we offered to pre-pay - JZ:  Yeah.  EM:  up to a - JZ:  There's - EM:  something like that.  JZ:  There's a mechanism for doing that but it's something that requires congress'l approval - I _ _ - BW:  Has to maintain a balance.  JZ:  it doesn't, doesn't uh really happen because they don't wanna get behind (in owed?) sponsor's money so to speak.  TB:  That would help us from incurring int on our share of it tho.  EMorJZ?:  Yeah, that's right. 


JZ:  So, so as an example, when this $2M came in in Sept, I, I don't have a letter right here, but I, I recompu, I computed how much sponsor money should've been paid because we got the extra 2M.  So I asked the city for I think 120K of uh fiscal 04 money because we just got that money in in Sept & the city is - put the money in the escrow acct & we've since then wrote a, written a letter to the bank & asked for the money from the escrow acct.  ?:  _ _ - 


11/15/04 LEV - Section  6 of  21  


EM:  Uh Charles, I uh I'd - bear in mind I came in late - CF:  No, I asked - EM:  were there other ques's other than int or, or - CF:  No, I, I just, I just heard him calculatin' - ?: _ _ - CF: under, under the Int Penalty in the contract & I asked the ques that it seemed to bother the fella at the end, about whether or not uh -


CLM:   The fella at the end is Lee McKinney.  I'm not an unnamed, faceless person.  CF:  Well good.  I didn't mean - CLM:  Glad - CF: or said - CLM:  Glad - CF: u were.  CLM:  Glad u were able to come to the mtg, sir. 


CF:  Yeah. (someone chuckles) &, & I asked whether or not when, when the - 'cause all that we heard up the, up at the high school from our guy was that the contractor was nice enough to go ahead & proceed even tho where we weren't gonna get the funds;  & now I think I understand why!  ?:  Sure, definitely. 


EM:  Um &, & I guess when I last saw u, & that was back in 02, & presented the cost to the School Bd, OBVIOUSLY, this was an unknown.  CF:  Right.  EM:  &, there, there's other unknowns uh at the time that I presented this back in 02.  Costs have gone up;  uh the const contract was uh over estimates &, &, & I, I mean I can provide all this data to u when we have the School Bd & Jim & I both will make an effort to do that uh shortly.  CF:  Fine.     


11/15/04 LEV - Section  7 of  21  


TB:  Was part of it that we - wasn't it also a case that we - does the contractor charge to pull in & off the job, wasn't it?  It was kind of why we - JZ:  Well uno - TB:  had assumed that - JZ:  If the contractor would stop work, um there's all kinds of expenses that would be incurred.  Um uno - TB:  I think that's - JZ:  _ would have to - TB:  why we had said to keep - Eric mentioned -


JZ:  _ could be claiming from with demobilization & mobilization & um - CLM:  Bottom line is - JZ:  Uno u might have to - u might've stopped work completely & u have to readvertise the job & uno it would just be - it could be very expensive.  CLM:  No, we, when we discussed it - JZ:  U could get flooded. 


CLM:  if u remember, the bottom line was it was in the city's int as well as the gov't & the contractor for him to continue.  Not only do we get the protection so that it would also probably cost us more money, based off - TB:  I guess - JZ:  Like if the city - TB:  it was mentioned.  JZ:  was flooded while the levee's still uno unconstructed, then of course there's, there's disaster;  disasterous costs for every - a lot of people obviously. 


So all these factors were - we were - we discussed it in several mtgs & basically everybody was VERY PLEASED that the contractor had the fund, had the financial back, back-up to continue working & to pay us all his subcontractors & everybody uh & then continue the jobThat's, I guess that's all I have on 4B.  DM:  Ok. 


11/15/04 LEV - Section  8 of  21 

(all barely audible)


TW: I have some things.  DM:  Just go ahead.  TW: I'll briefly um Kena pump sta has finally been approved by Steve Morris Wright, his pump people put BOM 1st (before?) rigorous testing approved of the pump sta & that will be turned over to MSD in op.  & I'm gonna get a schedule hopefully tomorrow from BOM on actually turning that pump on. 


& then as soon as that pump's turned on, then we can start at the end of the things that are adjacent to that old pump sta.  Until that pump is turned on, we cannot abandon those crossings that are now things that would go under the levee.  There's, there's 2 forced mains er a forced main & there's a gravity line that can go, that transverses the levee that will be removed or pressure-grouted, pumped full of grout. 


Of course the uh lift sta itself will be on the river side of the levee, will be _ _ (as or those?) wells. Hopefully - I was hopin' that that all will take place when remedial repumps come in. (it seems that someone pushed papers in front of him) I already read that - that, so.  The delay in that respect of the weather hasn't been a bad part of the project (chuckle) - JZ?: Yeah.  TW:  unfortunately, so - 'cause we've had some delays with, with MSD, so. 


11/15/04 LEV - Section  9 of  21  


DM:  Anything else on 4B?  EM:  Uh, the only thing I have is that the COE needed some more lands, interests from uh Simpson uh family & it amounted to about 1/3 of an acre & - DM:  Back behind their facilities?  EM:  Yeah & we, Tom eng'd it & uh we've gone ahead & given it to our appraiser to come up with the Offer of Just Compensation & once that's done, we'll meet with Simpson & obtain that int.


Ummm &, & the only other one that I talked to the contractor about was I got a call from uh, uh Phil Rideout he'd indicated he was anxious to get uh his tenant's car lot back into op.  Evidently the tenant has to went {sic} some add'l space & the contractor indicated weather was the issue & uh couldn't do it & uh Phil indicated he may be making a claim.  & uh I, I, I think we'll, we'll approach that when we get there.  Uh that was really figured into the, his Offer of Just Compensation, so we'll, we'll be able to work it out tho I'm sure.


11/15/04 LEV - Section  10 of  21 


DM:  Now I guess I'd just like to briefly say, (risk?) of this mtg, hopefully not breaking down.  If somebody is here to ask a ques - I'm glad to see the school rep'd again.  I know Jim Probert attended for a while, then his job took him away & he said he couldn't make the mtgs.  So like I say, I'm glad to see the school's here & anyone that wants to ask ques's, hope they don't feel like they're gonna be chastised or thrown out for - or anything like that.  There's some things - I don't pretend to know everything.  So sometimes by - if somebody asks a ques maybe I didn't think to ask or thought I knew the complete answer - but if we can just keep this at a, at a -


CLM:  Oh, I couldn't agree more.  DM:  bring a hostile - CLM:  I encourage - DM:  min like that.  CLM:  I encourage ques's.  DM:  (Do ya or oh yeah?).  CLM:  Just wanted to make sure I understood what the ques was. 


DM:  I just didn't want uh Mr Ford here to feel like he's gotta defend himself for the fact that he hasn't been coming for a while.  So again, I'm glad to see the school here.  If ANYONE wants to come in & see how their taxdollars are being spent or how their city's gonna be protected once this levee's done or what's getting near, I'm glad to see the int in that.  We're all gonna be celebrating next summer when this is done.  So I'm glad we're all here to share the ideas & get info out there to keep it moving ahead. 


11/15/04 LEV - Section  11 of  21  


So with that, move on to the Sec B, city cost share of the project & total cost.  JZ, Do u want to start us on that or Eric, do u want -


EM:  Um, I, I frankly just finished the, the Annual TIF Report to the uh State this morning.  & as best as I can tell, the city's right about $2.6M in overall uh expenses OUT, out of an est'd $12.8M, um & this doesn't factor in what cost credits we will get.  Uh some of our cost credits would be in excess of what were out-of-pocket simply because some of the property that we bought way back when - uh back in uh the late 80's uh is credited at a rate as to what it would be when the COE needed it. 


& uh, uh I, I, I think we're pretty much on, on track um to, to, to uh accomplish what we need to do;  & that's our 25% share with the 5% uh cash.  Uh & if not, uno well, obviously I'll have to go back to the districts &, & talk to 'em about it. 


But we're, we're still kind of in a state of flux because we don't know what the final contract award will be.  There's always uh some sort of uh overruns that, that DON'T look like they're, they're uh going to be great uh at this point.  & uh, uh we don't know what the int will, will be.  Uh & hopefully, that, compared to the overall project, is gonna be minimal.  But of course we do have to share the cost of, of any overruns & int & extaordinary expenses _ _. 


RW:  Can u send a copy of that Report to the State to the Fire District?  EM: Sure I Can.  DM:  I think the School would probably - EM: Absolutely. 


11/15/04 LEV - Section  12 of  21 


DM:  Ok.  Part C - fed sponsor funding for - as we change to 05 & 06.  JZ:  I'll just repeat what I said last mtg about FY 05.  Uno way back in, in uh Spring of 04, we had to express a capabillity of what we needed in FY 05.  In other words, how much fed money did we think we'd need in FY05.  & that one is bascially public knowledge;  it was uh $13.6M;  that's, that, that est'd.  That est, it assumed that we would not get any add'l fed funds in FY04. 


So now that we did get the 2, $2,093K in Sept transferred into the project, fed funds, uno the est & how - we did the uh subtraction last month;  that was 11M507 - is the, is still the capability figures.  Bascially, based on the same # uh I think our ests that we, that we used back when we 1st developed this total, is reasonably accurate - what, what funding we'll need in FY05.  So we haven't changed our figures.  So that's, that's the need in FY05. 


DM?:  Is the 13.6?   JZ:  That, that assumes the contractor is gonna finish the job which we think he will & then we're gonna pay him off.  & then if we're - ?: _ -  JZ:  gonna owe some int & we're gonna uno there may be a, a mod or 2 that, well, there will be mod, assumes there'll be some mods that adds to the cost;  & uh it's, it's uh an educated guess of how much money we'll need in FY05. 


RW:  Jim, What was that original # u gave in there for over-costs?  U put that in your copy.  JZ:  Um - RW:  back _ _ - JZ:  I, I - RW:  I don't recall when it was.  JZ:  The # I've got for the contract is $14.8M. 


Um yeah, I mean that's - the, the original contract - I don't have the figures in front of me.  Um it included um - RW:  It was a %age yield.  JZ:  It was over, a little bit over 14M was the basic contract.  RW:  Right.  JZ:  & then there was like, something like $200K for if there's damage to roads that have to be replaced, be repaired because of the contract & that was included in the uh, in the bid as 2 separate items. 


One that u don't - u know u've got the basic amt;  u may or may not have to do all the road work but there's a bid for it, ok.  & then there's the mods to the contract for a variety of things & it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 14.4 to 14.5M is the, is the total contract cost right now.


So um I didn't - that didn't include any int, uno & I um after that # doesn't, um the 14.4 or 14.5 whatever we're at now;  & there, I'm assured there will be some more mods as we proceed thru the remainder of const.  So it's, it's an est'd figure of 14.8M.  I think it's still reasonably accurate as far as I know. 


11/15/04 LEV - Section  13 of  21  


CLM:  As uno, the COE is op'g on a Continuing Resolution Authy which expires later this month.  Congress comes back into a lame duck ses tomorrow & they aren't going to take up uh at least 10 of the 11 aprops bills;  try to wrap 'em into an omnibus bill. 


There may be a problem in that 11th bill which is our bill, the Energy & Water Bill, includes the COE's projects.  It doesn't have anything to do with our project, but there's a hang-up about uh the money that's in there for Ford's radioactive waste at Eco Flats in Nevada. 


Congress is not able to include the Energy & Water Bill in that Omi, Omnibus Bill, pass it for the next 6 to 10 days.   Then the COE's gonna be under Cont'g Res where it's gonna - they'll be restricted, the Dist will be restricted to spending money for our projects at the same rate, not to exceed the same rate that they had for the FY of 04 that ended Oc - Sept 30th.  DM:  Is it just slightly over 2M, that 2M60K (I think heard Ford?) is what's in the budget right now?  JZ:  I think that's right.  DM:  So that _ -


JZ:  Now we - DM: _ _ - JZ:  we have uh - DM: _ _ - JZ:  we've rcv'd some money in this FY under the Cont'g Res & we actually did ask for uno some money to pay the contractor.  We've paid the contractor in Oct $950K so that's that's positive.  That reduces int.


& again I've asked the city for 120 & I also withdrew money uh 65K from the escrow acct for this yr's money (chuckle) that we've rcv'd so far.  & soon as I, I'm, I'm waiting for the 2nd check from the bank.  I've got the 65K & when I get the 2nd check, I was gonna uno put 'em together & put 'em in the contract.  EM:  It's in the bank.  JZ: Well, I, but I, I've written 'em 1 or 2 - EM:  I, I, I understand;  you're waiting for - JZ:  Yeah, waiting for the check, uno for 120. (barely audible) JUST ANOTHER DAY.


So, so I guess there is some chance that the COE is gonna get more than the 2M60K - DM:  Ok.  JZ:  when, when & if (chuckle) there's finally an aprops bill but we don't, we don't know what uno what, what it, what's gonna happen until it happens (chuckle)


DM:  & once that money's sent, do we, do we have to wait till Sept again to see if more money's gonna be transferred like this yr _ _ - JZ:  Well, uno typically, that's what happens.  DM:  I mean it'll be the - pretty much the same process - JZ:  Typically - DM:  this yr?  JZ:  u have to wait until the end of the FY to see if anybody has funds available - DM: Ok.  JZ:  that they can't use that they'll transfer -


11/15/04 LEV - Section  14 of  21


CLM:  This, this next yr there's probably going to be a supplemental aprops.  It'd be more than likely that there would be one for Energy & Water this next yr;  some time around April or May of next yr.  DM:  So this coming April, there's a chance we, the city or the COE could see more money coming in?  CLM:  This is because this was a Pres'l Election yr & normally, when their budget requests go in, they try to keep 'em down to keep the deficit from looking too big so that when the other party comes up on the party that's in power, it doesn't include any power. 


As a result of that, everybody kind of knows that come next Spring, the gov't agent's gonna be coming back in & asking for supplemental aprops to make up shortfalls & but neither of 'em have because the gov't kept the requests for aprops down because also kind of settling the meddle. 


So where we didn't have any shot at gettin' the sup'l aprops passed between, I think we have a pretty good shot at gettin' 'em next Spring.  DM:  If Mr Mitas could pass this back on to Cgsm Akin then we could all be feelin' better.  CLM:  They, they've been workin' hard;  I'll tell ya, going thru that.  DM:  & I know he does & - CLM:  Jim & - DM:  I appreciate his efforts.  CLM:  Mr Akin as well as our supporters on the  Senate side.  DM:  Ok, _ _ -


11/15/04 LEV - Section  15 of  21


Jim, u had something on mitigation u said u wanted to present.  JZ:  Yeah, I, I've got a, some info & um I, I've given it, a copy to Andy back there.  If u don't mind u can maybe pass that on to DC whenever u want to.  This is for u Tom, assault. (!?)  Um it's a package that we have, we have um issued to prospective bidders um last wk & we've asked for bids by 11/29.  & we've called the package Simpson Lake Mitigation Wooded Wetland. 


It's in the Simpson Lake Det area.  & it's,  it's mitigation for uh a wooded wetland area that was uh destroyed by the project, okSo we needed to mitigate.  We've talked about this in the past that um I think it was 2.2 acres that was destroyed of wooded wetland.  We have to mitigate on a 3 to 1 ratio;  so 6.6 acres of wooded wetland that needs to be created.  So this is, this is the plan for the Simpson Lake Det area.  We've talked about this before but um if u would maybe open up that package there & just, we wanna spend just a few mins talking about it;  but the drawings are in the back of that.  Um & this is the north arrow's pointing up, straight _ (rustling papers) _ -


Do u all know where the Simpson Lake Det area is?  It's in the north uh east part of the project that's north of uh St L Ave Closure Structure;  right up, right where the, the levee makes a, a turn up there.  Uh &, & the outfall from this det area flows into Simpson Lake & throws, flows thru the levee in a, in a pipe thru to Simpson Lake. 


So this, the det area had already been const'd by our Item uh 3A Contractor, Mo, Mosby.  But it's uh, but recently uno we've been, I bet for the last yr or so, we've talked about the fact that we could make this into a wooded wetland;  &, & so it serves a dual function of, of a det area for storing storm water run-off as well as a wooded wetland uno


EM:  &, & u may wanna add that it, it wasn't JZ decided to make a wooded wetland.  It was part of sort of a concentegrated {sic} _ - JZ:  Oh, well, we (pause) - EM:  the agencies out there.  JZ:  & the agencies, I mean the, the, uh, uh, the MDNR, Fish & Wildlife Svc.  We've had big mtgs with, with the city in, invited & participating in those & the COE & basically, we came up with this plan & now we're trying to uh follow thru & do it. 


EM:  &, & it was a condition of our permits.  JZ:  Condition of the permit, basically uh, the MDNR wants us to mitigate - er their basically their rules are u should mitigate concurrent with, before or concurrent with the impact of, of the project on the, on the resource. 


& so this is, this is as close as we can get to being current with, with uh the fact that our contractor had to fill this wooded wetland when he built, he's bldg the levee along uh south of Pyramid St with the clay levee.  Uh the same contractor did some of the excavation that's needed to make this wooded wetland, ok.  So -


11/15/04 LEV - Section  16 of  21  


DM:  Excuse me, Jim, u say the wetland will also be det for the levee?  JZ:  Yeah.  DM:  Ok.  JZ:  Yeah, it's, this, this drawing here kind of shows uh some paths so to speak that all lead toward a, the uh outfall.  There, there's a pipe that goes thru - on the right side of this drawing is the levee & then it curves around, it comes along the top, ok;  that's the levee& then so this det area was already there but, but our current contractor has brought the exca - elevation of the bottom down to elevation 408;  that was part of uh Item ESI contract.  & so that's where it sits at elevation 408. 


Now there's, there's a little bit of high ground over here that hasn't been touched because it has some buried concrete in there that, that, so that's basically been left alone.  So these paths that are in this lower area - what, what the plan calls for is for our, for our NEW contractor that, that would uh get this job, to just grade the bottom a few inches!  & create these little berms that are 3' wi - 30' wide & about 6" high.  & they're with this shape & they're all des, described geometrically.  & the purpose of these paths is to uh to uh have something a little bit higher than the other surrounding ground so that u, so that the city can get in there & mow that path in the future & keep that clear of, of brush growing up, ok


But, but our contract also calls for trees & shrubs to be planted on the 30' centers along the edge of this path, ok, on, on the slope of that little berm, & so that in our, in the future, the city will be mowing along these 30' paths & not harming the trees on each side.  & then the contract calls for trees to be planted all around in between, uno on the outside of these paths. 


& the purpose of the path is to provide a hydraulic route for, for water.  Once u have a, a uno a flood & u have a big rainfall, uno the det area's gonna fill up uno to like 8' high or whatever it is.  So it'll be full of water & so this will be, will create a path for that water to be, to exit the det area.  As soon as the flood goes down u can open up a gravity drain.


JMitas:  & that's even tho it's just a berm, a berm that u can climb up even up the pressure?  JZ:  No, there, there's just, but they're 6" high.  TW:  There's, in the detail that - that u can't see, they remain against it.  JZ:  Yeah, yeah, oh u haven't - TW:  So it looks like it shows there's a, uno they're using the swales on both sides of the berms - JZ:  Just grading on each side.  TW:  There's like a cut to provide the berm.  JZ:  Right.  TW:  So that's probably the water wash that flow _ - JZ:  Well, uno the water's gonna - TW:  on both sides of _ -


JZ:  They wanna, they wanna actually have the contractor grade this whole area over so that it's pretty much flat so that water spreads out &, & acts - TW:  Creates a - JZ:  & creates a wooded wetland uno so that there will - TW: which is a shallow.  JZ:  &, & some area that has to be wet a certain # of days in a yr - TW:  Right.  JZ:  by, by definition;  not always _ - TW:  6" to a foot is what the ones that they like.  JZ:  So it, it's, it's something that has been designed by our BIOLOGISTS, uh with the engs just trying to get down in the plans what the biologists want, ok (chuckle).


CLM:  Well, u, u did this in order to keep the city from having to go outside & spend more money to buy add'l land - JZ:  Right - CLM:  & mitigate - JZ:  This way u have land that's already - CLM:  U're mitigating land that u already had. 


11/15/04 LEV - Section  17 of  21  


TB:  How many acres was this?  JZ:  It's about 6, it's about 6, it's a 6.6 acres, depending on - TB:  & that's how much we needed to uh come up with?  JZ:  Well, it, it's, I think it's close;  uh I don't know if it's exactly the right amt.  & the reason why I say that is because we moved, we had to move our - on the 2nd page u see these dots here, uh that's uh relief wells, ok. 


EM:  It's, the whole area is about 10 acres.  JZ:  Yeah, so - EM:  The concrete side, they're not messing with.  TB?:  Yeah?   EM: _ _ -


JZ:  So there's relief wells in here &, & the, & a rea - if u go back to the page, drawing C3, u can see that there's a, a radius around these relief wells, 50' that our geotechnical eng says, I don't want any trees with roots in 'em within 50', planted within 50' of my relief well because the roots could get their way into the relief well.  


So!  So that's, so he's actually planting smaller trees in this radius around the relief wells.  I mean this is a lot of detail but there are like Dogwoods & other shrubs.  TB:  I was gonna say, what kind of trees can u have in there that u expect to be flooded with 8' of water at some time or another.  JZ:  Well, but they - yeah, that, he, he's picked species that he thinks will survive.  ?: _ -  DM: _ I was gonna ask the same ques.  


EM:  (barely audible to TB next to him)  This is short term.  DM:  Water will - EM:  Should be _ - DM:  be able to - EM: _ days.  DM:  flood these trees & then not kill 'em?  ?:  Right.  TB: Some Italian?   EM: Yeah.  CLM:  It won't be - JZ:  Yeah, it'll, it'll go out, it'll go out in the river too.  EM?: _ - JZ:  That's the, that's the future (chuckle).   DM:  I know a lot of trees have been killed in the past when the - JZ:  I know.  DM:  lower part flooded there.  I just hope these are the, like I say, trees that like water _ -


JZ:  & there's actually, in the specs - ?: _ - TB?: (bkgd) Hmm?  EM: (bkgd)  They died.  JZ:  there's the kind of trees - ?: _ _ - JZ:  that he's picked are listed in these specs which I gave u a copy of the technical specs. 


Andy:  U obviously hope that the uh flooding doesn't occur within the 1st couple of yrs after u plant 'em 'cause that will harm them.  DM:  So they have to get established before they can withstand - JZ:  Well - Andy:  Unless it's a quick chunk (of time?).  JZ:  Yeah, I mean - Andy:  Some, some do appear in slow motion _ _ - ?: _ _ - Andy:  Quick plantings _ _ _ -


JZ:  But anyway, that, that's some of the detail.  I mean there's, there's grasses that are planted & there's trees that are planted.   & uh this is the job that's, that's gone out & if anybody has any cmts, u're welcome to give me your cmts. 


11/15/04 LEV - Section  18 of  21  


TW:  So there'll be gra, some finish, more finish-type grading on this contract?  JZ: Well, uno it's really um just to, just to   g r a d e   this area called - TW:  What we call finish-grading, less than a foot of grading.   JZ:  Oh, yeah, it's, it's - TW:  Finish-type - JZ:  a couple of inches.  TW: grading & then - JZ:  Uno this is - TW:  planting - JZ:  If this is 6" - TW:  landscaping.  JZ:  high, uno, u only have to take in a couple of inches on each side just to keep an over _ _. 


TW:  So this'll be a local landscaping-type contractor - JZ:  Right.  TW:  that will do this work?  JZ:  Our Contracting Ofc said to me today that there've been 8, 8 companies, they've warded{sic} it - TW:  &, & what is the - JZ:  have indicated an int in - TW:  What is it - what was your approx est?  JZ:  Well uno, I don't have a, I don't have a, uh - I, I can give u an approx - TW:  Yeah.  JW:  uh of 50 to 100K, ok


TB:  To plant the trees in here?  JZ:  The whole - TW: To do the - he's gotta - JZ:  The grading, the - TW:  They gotta grade it 'cause they gotta replant the grass - JZ:  The grass, the trees - TW:  'cause right now, u just got -  JZ:  & there's a requiremt that the contractor has to have survival of so many, certain % of the trees uno the next Spring - TW:  Umhmm.  JZ:  those kind of things.  So um basically, because we - TW:  'cause we're gonna be - JZ:  because we think this is uh - TW: having some more water (work?) -


JZ:  Well, this is requiremt from MDNR & we committed to TRYING to get this done in the Fall.  If we can't get it done, then we could certainly be fined because of weather that it's impossible, then our contract will automatically, by weather _, by weather-dates being added to the contract, take us to the other planting season which would be like in 3/05, ok.  TW:  What is when is your bid for closing the bid?  JZ:   11/29;  it's on this sheet. 


CF:  Has DNR or - ?: (bdgd) hopefully simple _ - CF: whoever is in authy to approve this, accepted this as a sub_ - JZ:  They've accepted the, they've accepted the concept.  CF:  Just because u, u indicated that, that based on some other necessities, it may not be the full _ - JZ:  Well, that's another - here's a, here's a point. 


Uh because of the uh relief wells, uno they may not be counted - may or may not be counted or part of it may be counted.  ?: _ - JZ:  We, we think, I think we can count 15' over from the treeline, myself.  We counted 15' the other way;  why - u should be able to count it 15' toward the, toward the relief wells.


11/15/04 LEV - Section  19 of  21  


BUT, there's also in this high area, I didn't even get to that - we have - there's uh several pipes coming into the det area.  There's one over here on 9th St;  there's another that comes - it's, it's a really um a pipe that goes thru the embankmt here, it's not tied - TW:  So it's the - is this the pipe that we put in - JZ: Yes.  TW: the 36" pipe - JZ:  Yes.  TW:  from the city?  JZ:  along Leonard St.  TW:  Right, ok.  JZ:  & I understand we, & we talked to uh Paul about this.  He said I think he said that there are other sections of the city that'll probably be added.  TW:  Yeah & actually we're out rcv'g bids 11/24 on some add'l work along Leonard to add more water to the det pond.  JZ:  Right, right


Now there's also a pipe over here that is thru this embankmt that really just provides an exit for a low area.  It comes in here, Eric, & uh it allows water, instead of bldg it up in this area, to flow thru a pipe that has a flap gate on it at the hill.  So what we've built some small berms again in here. 


This, the purpose of this berm here is that this - there used to be er there is a ditch right now, but a very shallow ditch that takes water down in this direction.  We just simply blocked, blocked that ditch with something a little bit higher & then put a little berm along this whole edge that would stop water from - & the water, the ground is sloped this direction - so basically that'll create a wet area here too.  & the purpose of this berm is to keep water from backing up into this pipe which is the city storm water system. 


TW:  We have a flap gate on it as well.  JZ:  Yeah, but this would, this would control, the water won't - TW:  Yeah, but they don't always work - JZ:  get back into it.  The water's - TW:  as great either _ - JZ:  The water's gonna flow over here before it flows back into there. 


So what, I guess to get (chuckle) u asked the ques, we think we can count part of this as wooded wetland also that would give us the acreage we need.  Um uno I, at this point I don't absolutely know how the, how the counting of acreage is gonna work out but that's the plan.  & -


11/15/04 LEV - Section  20 of  21  


TB:  Did u say there was concrete or debris in that (flats?) up there?  JZ:  Well, it's er it's covered with - I mean what u see out there now is soil with grass growing.  But I understand from previous people involved that there was conc, concrete out there that was buried in that's, in that area.


EM:  There's a - JZ:  Pieces of concrete.  EM:  batch plant in the mid 80's.  Uh - TB:  For MSD?  EM:  Yeah, I, I suspect it was MSD.  JKB:  That batch plant was up there where the old OK Vac was;  it was all the way up there.  EM:  That's, that's where we're talkin', kinda.  JKB:  Just about where the old OK Vac bldg sets!  EM:  It was behind, well behind the OK Vac bldg is where he's talkin' about where the concrete would be.  JKB:  Where they built that bldg - EM:  I mean that's the only thing I can _ - JKB:  Where they built that bldg before they had their stockpiles for the thing;  & that's just uh - that rundown is just what they built out of the trosh{sic} I think with a value of something.  But rundown to the _ - EM:  Retrovich had that. 


JZ:  Yeah, I wasn't involved at the time, but I know there's, there was concrete somewhere near this site that either moved to it, moved it to this location just to bury it or they moved it some that are already there.  RW:  They moved it from OK Vac site back there.  JZ:  Yeah.  RW: That's what is was!  TB:  Is it broke up any?  RW:  It cost the city - DM:  Would that concrete have - RW:  like a hundred billion thousand dollars to do it!


DM:  Would it have to be dug out there or - JZ:  No, no - DM: can we just leave it in there?  JZ:  No, it's just - TW:  No, we're just doin' - JZ:  We're just putting some berms on to hold some water in this - TB:  I guess my ques - JZ:  higher area - DM:  The concrete's not a problem, it's -


TB:  If we needed more ground, is it easier to pull that concrete outta there & get rid of it, as to go out & buy 2 more acres of ground somewhere?  JZ:  No, at this point I don't - BW: _ _ - JZ:  we don't have to, but let's find - if we find out we have a problem _ - BW:  But it looked like he's trying to do is - JZ:  _ we'll consider it.  BW:  make a lake out of this high area.  JZ:  But as he said - BW:  build this berm around it. 


JZ:  I - he's got a good point.  If, if we find out we're...(exchange tapes & I noted that JZ said, if we're an acre or 1/2 acre short)...EM:...we don't - (sell or some of?) the ballfields too, but we can always sump.  TB:  We'd have to plant trees over there then.  JZ:  We were, we uno, we were. 


Well, 1st of all, our biologists have been in this all the way thru & we've been giving copies to our regulatory people who are the people who get the COE's 404 Permit - TW:  Keith McMillin, (MSD?).  JZ:  uh Danny McClennan is the Chief - TW:  Oh, Danny McClellan - JZ:  & uh Mike Daily who is the Project Mgr from Regulatory on our project, he's been down in Fl uh hurricane duty, but he just got back;  so, but anyway, they have it.  Uh that's, I mean it's a good point.  We'll, we'll certainly do that if we need to or at least look into that if we need to do that if we need some more, some more acreage. 


DM:  Jim, Is that in this 14.8M u were talkin' about earlier?  JZ:  Yes, there's an est - DM: _ _ _ - JZ:  Well, no, no it's not in the 14.8.  The 14.8 is the est for - ?: _ _ - JZ:  for Item 4B contract with ESI.  This is a separate contract, but it's in our overall project cost est.  DM:  Tku.  TB?:  U just - u gonna spend _ -


11/15/04 LEV - Section  21 of  21


DM:  Last item, MM, u had wanted the floor.  MM:  Um I wanted to see if I could get copies of the mtg hand-outs.  DM:  Alright.  Are u saying that JZ had?  MM:  Whatever - there were 2 or 3 different hand-outs I think.  BW:  I didn't get any if there was.  MM:   U should.  Speak up, Bob (chuckle).  DM:  I just remember this one uh package here.  BW:  Just a contract _ _. 


DM:  Talkin' about the mitigation;  this packet here is the only thing I remember.  It's the only thing I've got.  MM:  I thought Jim said something about - TW:  Isn't it available on the web?  JZ:  Well, it is available on the web but, but I haven't been able to download the drawings (chuckle).  I think I made a copy from of the specs from our website, but u need a special uno u need some special software & I don't even have it on my computer to access the drawings.  TW:  _ _tp site?  JZ:  Yeah.  MM:  Or Jim can get u another copy?  DM:  I could see if I could run this.  MM:  & the other whatever's with it.


Um the other thing I wanted to mention is uh, I believe it was on the city atty's bills from like 9/23 & ever since then, the Colonel, JZ & the atty have quite a few conversations back & forth, um & PRM mtgs, I guess are those the trailer mtgs?  Are they called PRM mtgs?  Maybe Progress Review mtgs?   JZ:  Um I don't know, I, I don't, I haven't been going to the trailer mtgs, but I think Eric's gone to some of 'em - construction mtgs.  MM:  Have u, Eric? 


EM:  I don't have anything to say to u!  Uh uno, u wanna talk, u talk to your lawyer.  U're suing the city, so.  MM:  This is not about my lawsuit;  this is - EM:  Well, u, u've heard - MM:  about the levee project.  EM:  u, u just heard from me, so. 


MM:  & about uh 2 to 3 hrs that uh u & the colonel & JZ are speaking & I was just hoping that maybe we could get a detailed report on the info uno that u talk about outside of the Levee Cmsn mtgs.  EM:  Well, we, we have your lawyer contact me & call the appropriate memos in court.  MM:   This has nothing to do (chuckle) with the lawsuit.  EM:  Ok.  MM:  This is just the levee project. 


Um & uh, _ oh, the mods.  This uh wooded wetland, well, it's not really a mod, but is that because of the uh the wooded weland site by Pharoah that was destroyed?  Is that why u're doing this?  JZ:  Yeah, it's at, u mean Pharoah & Pyramid, right.  MM:  & why was that wooded wetland destroyed?  JZ:  That's where our levee is located. 


MM:  & are there other mod, mods?  JZ:  Well, u say other;  this, this is not a, not a mod.  MM:  Ok, well, this isn't, but u have - JZ:  This is a separate contract.  MM:  talked of mods.  JZ:  Yeah, there's mods for various technical reasons uno.  MM:  Do u have like 2 or 3 specifically in mind?  JZ:  I mean I, I - MM:  If u do, u'll let us know.  JZ:  Um -


DM:  We generally bring 'em up here at the mtg if it needs to be discussed.  JZ:  Yeah, that's, I think that's been - those mod - mods have been talked about at the const mtgs & so forth with the city, with the city present.  MM:  I mean just in the last like month or 2 uno it was talked about on occasions.  Ok, just so everybody's aware of what they are.  Tku. 


DM:  The next mtg is 12/20, 5pm.  Motion to adjourn?  RW?:  I'll make a motion.  JKB:  2nd it.  DM:  All in favor - (ayes)  Ok, tku all for coming.  (5:53pm, end 11/15/04 LEV)