MOPR'S 5/16/05 VP BOA MTG MINS
Notes: Mtg called to order at 7:40pm when DM took his seat after talking with someone by the back table & all others had been seated by 7:30. Italics = barely audible speech. Agenda: Bill 1808 - An ord vacating Oasis Dr in City VP at its eastern intersection with Pharoah Ave to its western intersection with Kena St. Bill 1809 - An ord vacating Pharoah Dr in City VP at the intersection of Pyramid on the north to River Dr on the south. At 9:06 pm they went into Exec Ses re land acqusitions.
Present: RH, DLC, DA, JKB, MW, DM, EM, JW, MP, MMW, SD.
Others: JM, DC, Pam, TW, Lt Melies & Ofcr Chad Louis,.
Audience: Vivian Blackman, ES, & Edward Myers, Lechner Realty Group, Comm & Industrial Real Estate Svcs - Ref on Docs: 6/22/05 Lechner Realty Letter to MM.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 1 of 29
(Roll call - see above) DM: Quorum being here, we uh call this mtg to order for 5/16/05. (Pledge) RH, Do u have anything to add to tonight's - RH: _ _ _ _ _ _ - DM: DLC, Anything to add? DLC: Nothing this evening. DM: DA.
DA: Uh, YH, um a brief Ex Ses at the end for possible er for land acquisitions if we got it. That will be all, tku. DM: JKB, Anything to add? JKB: Yeah, a thing on the (vital?) 3rd St & also check things around over there where they've cut that off - just uh if heard anything about that water (pump being?) installed. DM: (Up on?) 3rd St _ _ _ _ - JKB: Yeah, 3rd St. DM: Ok, (drew a blank for a second?).
JW, Anything to add? JW: Uh yes, sir, after the Mayor's Report, I'd like to add - ask if u would uh - about a new carpet or flooring in the library AND the chambers. DM: Anthing else to add? JW: No. DM: MP. MP: Nothing, YH. DM: MMW, Anything to add? MMW: Um get a check on the - a bid on the bids for the uh rest of the sidewalk on Vance _ _. DM: Ok. SD, Do u have anything to add? SD: I rcv'd some kudos from the uh (woman?) down on Vance Rd, the Baumgartner Falling Rocks _ _ Project (underneath or gonna need?) this bldg cmsnr. ?: _ _ _ - ? ?: _ _ - DM: MP. MP: When JM brings up the uh _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - DM: Tku.
DM: We're gonna have a - Lt wanted to make a presentation next Bd - we'll move that up early _ & also TW'll _ _ _ _ _. With that is there a motion to approve the agenda as amended? JW&DA?: So moved. ?&JW: 2nd it. DM: All in favor? (ayes - none heard opposed) Motion carries.
Mins of the Bd mtg of 5/2/05 - wbp? ?: Move approval for them. MMW: 2nd. DM: q/c? All in favor - (ayes - none heard opposed) Motion carries.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 2 of 29
Lt um Melies, do the sign waiver _ _ _ _ please, to give out the award. LtM: Tku for the opportunity. I have an award that um, actually 2 awards that are in your packet under the Police Sec - um Ofcr Walsh - I guess since he's on vacation - today's my 1st day back so I guess he's unable to make it - but this 1st award is to Ofcr Chad Louis.
The award is presented to him in recognition of his actions in early 4/05 in response to numerous vandalisms in the City VP. He consolidated the incidents into a single foucsed investigation. Street signs, street services, private & commercial bldgs, school property & the levee strucutre had been painted or broken in various incidents beginning in 2/05.
Thru the use of a - uh it's called the Ranch Program - it's a program that helps us track crime, a program to determine the crime pattern & the re-interviewing of ALL victims - he developed 3 juvenile suspects. After identifying & locating the teens, he interviewed them & obtained 3 corroborative confessions, clearing & putting an end to the 2-month waive of vandalism in the City VP. It turned out to be about 16 vandalisms I think in all. Uh the award is presented - your initiative & investigative skills, persistence & commitmt to protecting the citizens of StL Cnty are a credit to u personally & to the entire StL Cnty Police Dept. It's signed by Major Fitch, Capt Corliss & the Chief. ?: Tku _ _ (applause)
There's also a copy of the award for Sean in there; uh it's from a drug stop. Most of the guys (went thru & do a good job?) we have, we have an award structure for rewardin' 'em for that so I'd like to bring that to the attn of the Bd - various things that are goin' on. Thanks.
DM: We appreciate the opportunity to do this in public. We can show that we appreciate what the ofcrs do & not just hear that they aren't there when u need 'em. JW: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - (EM chuckles) What, Chad, u don't wanna shake our hand, come by? ?: _ _ _ _ - ?: _ _ - ?: _ _ - (they laugh)
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 3 of 29
DM: Next, TW, u asked for an opportunity to come up & give a presentation - bd _ _ _. TW: I just wanted to give u an update on a few things. One of the things uh is Vance Rd. Now we did get concurrence from MODOT & I believe - actually I have a ques for u, Mr. Mayor. Have u seen or have u uh MW, uh the sig required for signing the contracts to be able to send them on to uh BOM? DM: I saw it today. I didn't get a chance to read it completely. I, I looked at it before the levee mtg - TW: Right. DM: I'll check on that _ - TW: Well - DM: _ _ - TW: As soon - DM: _ _ - TW: as u can get a look at that, sign that & pass that on, then we can get the thing movin'.
But we did get MODOT concurrence finally & so now we are awarding to BOM which - uno obvi - I told u about the lead time for the steel. But as soon as he can get that signed contract in, he can place his order for the steel & then we will begin the process of having a pre-const mtg & of course we don't have to wait for the steel before we can get everything done for the concrete & u still got your piers. So there's a lot of work before the actual steel bridge comes to be set. But the wheel is moving again slowly but surely.
Uh the other thing I wanted to tell u some good news also which is - I'm not ALWAYS the bearer of good news but tonight I am - uh Forest Ave - we've rcv'd approval to uh obtain esmts which means they concurred with our layout of the ROW & the street for Forest Ave. So we are preparing a box of properties for Jim to make it easier on him, as easy on him as possible, for sigs for esmts. Now we have only one piece of ROW to acquire. It's a piece that is owned by the church. It's a small triangle to help improve the turning movemt off of Didian.
The rest of the esmts are either sidewalk esmts or slope esmts & that's pretty much the rest of the way, all the way down to the northern, the city limit, Manchester limit. & the soonest we can uh get those sigs uh back to MODOT, they will then, once put, Paul Fayer'll certify the ROW - even tho it's just esmts, mostly, because they're in the ROW. & the next step after that - which that's gonna take a while to get all those sigs unless we have a good turnout, have a creative uh way to get those esmts all signed.
& then after that we will get the final drawings done & submitted to MODOT for their final approval. They will then issue what is called PS&E approval which is Plans, Specs & Estimate, which then will allow us to proceed to the bid phase of it, which we HAVE to have everything approved by the end of the 10th, for the drawings, the, the docs, the ROW, all have to be signed. So the quicker we get the esmts signed, the better off the city will be for the status of their monies that they're getting - uno we want funding for that.
So! THEN if, which - we're, we're ahead of, we're ahead of the schedule or I should say right on schedule, we have a couple of months to get those signed & but we don't want to dilly-dally around. We then would hope to bid some time uh late er Winter (such with?) for Spring const of next yr. That's, that's the game plan.
So! Uh I guess when Jim discusses the point that uh that I kinda looked at the latest process where there's 2 versions of it & it looks like (it looks?) to their devr - guy buyin' 'em down - the one method is approx $35K. Well, actually Jim's here if u wanna discuss it in a forum. Unless there's other ques's on the other projects, (we, we need?) another day.
EM?: Did u (meet him or need an?) out of town? TW?: _ _ -
DM: So as long as this project's _ _ _ this & then JM will come up under bldg, er PBW rather. The bad part's the main thing related to what JM was (tomfer?) - TW: Yeah, I think - DM: Tom will work on now _ - TW: he's prepared to come back up. I just thought - DM: Yeah _ - TW: we'd get this _ - DM: Yeah, I just - TW: (outta the way?). DM: clarifying so we don't - think u don't have another opportunity to speak later on this - like u asked Boyd for instance - ?: _ _ - DM: _ _ care to wait for this. TW: So, the _ - ?: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ -
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 4 of 29
JM: Basically, to give u a little bit of history of this, uh on 2 different occasions, TW & I was asked by the mayor & the bd to take a look at the channel improvemts to the remaining 47 & 49 Boyd. We came up with original ideal, uh walked it with Ideal Landscaping because they were currently under contract which they were(n't?) in hopes of doing contract extension with them. & he gave us a low, a bid of $55K.
Uh we discussed that a little bit & then the mayor met with me & the mayor & I went up there & we threw some different ideals out & we came up with some other ideals. & uh I met with Ideal Landscaping & he submitted a 2nd proposal & it's roughly $35K (& then the?) - with what we would get with that is along uh 47 & 49 Boyd, the scope of work would be to remove an existing 30" storm pipe there, perform all the necessary excavation & make a 7' wide flat-bottom ditch with their 1-to-1 slope on the banks & he would extend the key-zoned standard retaining wall at 47 Boyd, 37, 36' long.
& I that - I believe that would be just the rest of his property. We would extend the (new?) retaining wall an add'l 36 feet. & uh at 49 Boyd, we would extend it another add'l 20 feet long & uh they would also install a headwall & a 24" pipe - uh to invest these specs. There's a, there's a current (fund?) comin' from the east (MOPR Note: EastWest Gateway?) - ?: Right. JM: That's the price that's calls for following the bizs. There's a T there now that's (at the request?) of Pro Heating - remove that T & the public will have all directions (into acct?).
TW: Then they're talking about also puttin' an 18" there, shot wad stop light which is kind of, it's similar to a block light that's on the south side; extend that out in back _ _ _ _ (obetreon?). JM: & that includes a little bit of concrete work if we would have to use some of Ferris's driveway. That was, that, that, that was another issue that was brought up along with the project that's been goin' on. I think the aldmen were there & know a little bit about that _ _ _. SO UH THOSE ARE THE 2 PROPOSALS WE GOT & I believe I've been told we can still go under the existing Statemt of Plan, in fact at the present volume _ _ _ _.
TW: Potentially, IF the bd wished that. If not, we wait & again, it's something that's totally your decision. Uh if u do it at a later date, I don't see how we could put together anything of that - which - or potentially add it to a different project that may be going on; if not, _ _ it's (imminent or Eminent?) - JM: I believe Dave (pause) initially told me to get some prices that's good for (his intent?).
?: YH. Ques. DM: MP, u have the floor. ?: Ques is what we _ - (strange sound) - DA?: _ (need to?) extend that wall. ?: West side. ?: _ _ _ - TW: JUST that wall? ?: (Yep?). MP?: Just right where u come out. TW: Just the 30' or 36' long? JM: I don't think u can, MP, because u got to dig the channel to put a footing for the wall. ?: Anybody complainin'? MP?: Right. JM: & u, u can't just go extend it because if we just - we have to, we have to dig the channel out, check the channel for the footing before I have 'em put a wall around that.
MP?: (Why?)? JM: U have 36' would put us past his driveway. MP: Well, right now, we're concerned about the driveway. Step fitting to step out in the driveway. If it's only temp, do it, temp, _ _ _ _. TW: Well I guess - DM: Would anything survive I guess if we're - TW: Well, I mean - DM: Maybe we - TW: we could put - DM: could put temp - TW: U could put a curb-type thing in there or we could uh just raise the existing wall that's there.
JW: It don't go far enough past that driveway. JM: Don't go far enough - JW: _ only - JM: past the driveway - JW: goes half the driveway. TW: _ (extended or extent of?) the driveway _ _ _ - JW: The problem, the whole problem _ _ - JM: & he didn't want a - TW?: the thing is - TWorJM: a wall there.
TW: What, my, my eng'g is that if u just do a small piece of this, u have another problem here that the adjacent neighbor has, (is or if?) they're having to sell that, it's a pretty, uno pretty big problem with the pipe that's the last (10/20?) _ _ _ _ not properly joined. If u're gonna do ONE, it just seems (pretty - been?) takin' care of the problem that's on the hillside & also (adjacent?) to the lawn which is (probably gonna?) just _ _ _ (technology?) - connect it somehow wierdly to that (3rd hedge that's in a?) _ _ _ _. Just think that u'd be walkin' away from another problem by conveying that _ _ _ -
?: YH. DM: MP, u still have the floor. MP: Could I make a motion & put that into uh FW&M Cmte? DM: Is there a 2nd? ?: 2nd. DM: q/c? JW: I have one, YH. DM: I guess the people - er I was asking uh MW noted - request that (summons?). JM: I'll give it to u _ _ _ _ - DM?: _ _ _ - MP: _ put the, the bid into FW&M - DM: Ok, bid for the wall - is it, is it just the wall or the whole creek or - MP: The 35K. TW: Approximately $35K. DM: Ok. TW: To extend the wall past the 2 driveways on both sides & t o r e l a y the channel & put some uh dirt down, a little bit of dirt.
DA: YH. ?: (2nd?) - DM: DA. DA: Um I'm not on - ?: (2nd?). DA: the FW&M Cmte, however I would support that if the FW&M Cmte would recommend that this be funded in the 2005/2006 budget-yr, I believe that would be a, a motion that I could support. There is a recognition (incumbent?). DM: Any other q/c?
JW: I have one. DM: JW. JW: What's - How long did u say that guy would hold that bid - for one yr? JM: Well ac, actually this is, this is the proposal instead of a bid. He would hold this for one yr as long as we still have him under a contract & we can do an extension to the precedent (someone coughs) (it's?) involving - project.
TW: Which, Mr. Bond may want to indeed cmt on that - whether we can do that. Right now, we're kinda (noose?)-ending that other Crescent Valley Channel & (we or he?) might still be within that timeframe, but if we go too much farther down the road, it might not be _ _ _-
EM?: (That's?) a pretty old (valley?). I mean I - rightfully it's always property that the bizs are on now. TW: Sure. But, besides, since we uno this (stack of stuff?) _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - DM: Does that - TW?: _ _ - DM: price seem reasonable within the uh - TW: Yeah, $25 a sq yd is a good price FOR that type of const of a wall. We recently did get some bids of about 30, $32 a sq yd, so it's uh faired well - TWor?: _ _ _ prices _ _ - TW: current good price -
EM: Well, is he still under contract? TW: Yeah, yeah. I'm afraid that if u get too much farther down the road, let's say we don't do anything until 2, 3 months _ _ _ _ - DM: Like if we wanna go now with good weather too, but got _ - TW: If u, if u all conceive of a way to find the money if - TWor?: (if it was?) budgeted - ?: _ _ -
JM: If we budget(ed?) it, I would say send the contract & maybe - uno once u budget it, once it goes in Finance Ways, uno I could talk to Dave & _ uno - TW: & I think he'll be creative with his invoice for it. He has big plans as far as letting Fund 17 catch up (in time?).
DM: Anything else, JW? JW: No, that's, that's fine. I just - DM: What else haven't u - JW?: _ _ _ _ _ - DM: Ok. Just lookin' at u. I'm desperate. ?: _ - DM: Any other ques's? All in favor of putting this in FW&M, say - (ayes - none heard opposed) (Gavel bang) DM?: Won't - ?: _ - DM: get any taxes. ?: _ _ - (same subject below)
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 5 of 29
TW: Does the bd have any other ques's related to the - DM: Are there any other? JW: I have one - DM: JW. JW: On that same subject, do u think that uh the city could dump a load of rock alongside that guy's driveway so he's at least got SOMETHIN' to step on? I mean how much can a load of rock cost - that Dave -
DM: Is there - JW: _ _ - DM: a place to put - JW: _ _ - DM: enough rock in there to - JM: Actually we'd be dumpin' it in the channel if we do that. DM: That's what I was thinking - JM: His driveway is right next to the channel. If we dump rock, we may be dumpin' it in the channel.
JW: So if u build a wall, it's gonna be in the channel too? JM: (No?) because that's been decided. I mean THE ENG CAN EXPLAIN IT to u better than I can but - TW: I think what we're gonna have to do is, is look at it & probably build some kind of platform. JW: _ _ - DM: Are we temp? DM: gonna have to - JW: Temp? _ - DM: Are we gonna have to raise the existing wall if the wall is extended to keep - I don't know - rock from sliding in the creek I guess like -
TW: Well, the existing grade is pretty close to the level that it should be but I think, I think _ - DM: So if the wall went the same height all the way out, then he'd be - ?: Good tricks. TW: _ _ _ we're gonna have to just make sure with that resident that we get a platform where he wants to be. Uh - JW: What level would u if u tried? TW: Maybe 5' _ we might have to extend his driveway to match his land.
JW: Is there any temp _ - TW: I'm sure - JW: He didn't care if it's ROCK. He just wanted a driveway. He just - TW: Yeah! JW: He's tired of steppin' up. TW: I can meet Jim out there & we can - JW: Come up with some kind of temp thing? TW: Yeah, yeah, we can do that till u guys decide what u wanna do (in your cmte or 'n you're committed?).
?: (It's our problem?). JW: I don't doubt Mike's probably (stickin'?) _ _ _ _ _ _ - TW?: That's how he (functions?). Where'd Jim go? (to back of room) Jim, we're gonna go look at a temp rock, something platform for him as soon as we can get out there this wk. DM: U got a ques 'cause I think _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _. Alright, tku, TW. TW?: Tku.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 6 of 29
DM: I didn't think to get the camera earlier, uh Lt, if u could come up with Ofc Louis & then if - when Mary Shapiro either comes tonight or tomorrow, then we'll get it printed out or email it to her like the - see if we can get this in the paper & - (someone chuckles) JW: Knew we'd get Chad up here. (someone chuckles) DM: Use it as a - as I say, we don't - we always get to do these awards thing. If we could get this in the paper, hopefully get this on a - something for the paper to present in a positive light - LtM: Just don't reenact it. DM: Right, reenactmt. (people chuckle) LtM: On the re - ?: _ _ - LtM: Reenactmt. (JM tries to take a photo but the camera needs new batteries & they laugh & cmt indec) DM: We'll do it later.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 7 of 29
...DM: Under Aldermanic Cmte Reports uh, DC asked to speak re the levee. DC: I just have a few things that I wanna bring up here. I brought 'em up at the Levee Cmsn mtg. But we do, on the Leven Cmsn, we DO need an aldermanic rep from the 4th Ward. DLC took TB's place & - from the 4th Ward. SD: I thought I was supposed to be there today but uh I couldn't make it.
DC?: Is that - DM?: I think that I think at this point, _ _ _ - ?: _ _ _ - ?: _ - ?: _ - DC: So we'll be uh - ?: _ _ - ?: _ _ - DC: I'll give MW your name so she can send u a packet instead of uh KT. Ok, MW? MW: I can _ _ _ _ - DC: Ok.
Uh DLC brought up at the last mtg that he had heard that the completion date for the levee would be in Sept & he was right. They have split the completion date till Sept due to weather delays & flood we had & the weather delays & whatever's & uh so the completion date is actually in Sept.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 8 of 29
Um a few other things that I will bring up - uh I was asked a ques - I went to the bizmen's mtg last uh wk & uh they wanted to know something about Mer Sta Rd - why the levee was completed only to like Arnold - uh Old Mer Sta Rd - why it hasn't been tied in.
Well, there was a redesign of the uh alignmt & also uh hooking into the uh MODOT uh ROW over there on uh, uh Mer Sta Rd. So they moved the uh sluice gate er the outlet structure farther west off of the ROW, off of their uh embankmt & that on the MODOT property, & moved it over towards the Arnold's area more which entails to move the pipe, the 54" uh stormwater pipe that comes down Mer Sta Rd & all thru there in, into this new structure & then over it.
That's why it hasn't been completed. Uh Alan Wolfe from the ESI, they've been goin' over the plans from the COE is what they're doin'. & he's probably 95% ready to go with that & probably by this wk or maybe next wk they're be ready, the 1st of June, they'll be ready to go & start on that project. & then that, that thing will proceed & close it up.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 9 of 29
Um also we've had uh, uh RR Permit problems & EM has been working on that with uh some success & then some NOT so successful things. But now we've sort of worked out where we possibly are going to use a, an interim system to use a pump to pump water out of the storm line that uh parallels uh Mer Plaza there & the RR in order for the contractor to start working on a junction box & uh the uh manhole & everything to connect it to the storm drain that goes UNDERNEATH the RR tracks & comes out into the det pond uh in back of Valley Material.
Uh I guess we'll be working those plans out. Uh at some time we built a manhole, put a pipe underneath the RR tracks & had it empty into that area on the east of uh the old emerg road or on the east side of the RR tracks, but for some unknown reason, uh I guess because of the fact is, they didn't wanna drain all the storm water down on the river, on that area down there where the flood houses or that area in there, & they connect, DIDN'T connect it to the junction box & just ran it straight around the junction box & down to the river & dumped it into the river, straight into the river uh west of the RR bridge.
Uh now, we have to move, put a new manhole in & put a manhole & a connection into the junction box so we can run all the water, & we're having problems with the RR. & EM could maybe explain that a little bit better than I can what, what he's goin' thru & all that.
But uh that's a thing that's kinda delayin' the contract - to get that part of it done & we can finish that work up there & work on it - uh a new emerg road & all, all this awkward thing; we'll get into that a little bit different too.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 10 of 29
Um, uh the emerg road - we had a little problem. We had a haul road across the RR tracks usin' the old emerg road uh & we had a RR derailmt. A train derailed on the curve comin' off of uh the spur track down, got on down the spur track & uh the RR uh suspected that (which?) we have dirt at that gravel & stuff that we put in there, uh caused the track to whatever. I, I really don't know what - the train derailed. So they said that we can't use the emerg road any more uh for a haul road or with trucks & they blockaded it off.
So we don't have any haul-type road up in that area. So the trucks are goin' down Marshall Rd & dump on - loadin' onto the levee & then comin' up & goin' all the way up & get off on the River Dr & come out River Dr up to Mer Sta Rd & up to Marshall & then back on 141 to go to the plant to haul dirt to run up. We don't have any - & we're working with Valley Material in order to use their uh road into their plant where we have our const trailers & work with him to move some of his storage equipmt around so we can get connect on that at the (front?) road so we can use that haul road again - use it - emerg road.
Uh this is uh a short-term basis right now. I think 90 to 6, uh 120 days or some say 180 days, 90 something, we're gonna work out until the contract is, is finished & everything else. Then, we'll have, hopefully by then we'll have another uh agreemt with the RR to use that emerg road as an emerg road for the fire dept & that & that will be all that will be able to use that road eventually. So hopefully this will all work out &, & but uno it's kind of a uh thing that's kind of holdin' things up a little bit but not a whole lot.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 11 of 29
The other thing I wanna bring to your attn here is we've had this before - Valley Material is again dumping their concrete waste outta their trucks, washin' their trucks out on the back of their property & dumpin' the waste into uh the slope & det ponds.
& they're - we have relief wells all along the landside of the levee that uh relieves the pressure comin' underneath the levee when we have a flood. & uh they had some barricades up there but uh the water started bldg up behind the barricades & uh they proceeded to bust a hole in it & the water runs down into the det pond. & the det pond is full of creamy-lookin' water which is concrete debris. & uh if that gets into the det pond, into the relief wells, uh then it - we're gonna have a lot of problems.
Short-term, I guess the idea is we're gonna have to have a mtg with Valley Material & tell them u have to put up some kind of barricade - something to keep the water & that material from goin' down there. He was given a permit some time ago to put in some kind of recycling unit. Uh, um from just people tellin' me up there, they use it sometimes & sometimes they don't.
Uh we - we're still workin' with him to get this emerg road thing for the 30 days or whatever & maybe we have to ask him not to do it for a while but the long-term is, he's not gonna be able to do this. He's gonna have to be re-educated that he has to do something with his concrete because we can't allow this to be in the det ponds & get into the relief wells because if it clogs the relief wells up, then our levee is suspect to failure & it will fail. It will fail if u don't have relief wells to relief the pressure underneath the levee.
Uh I'm bringin' this up because I think it's uno maybe if we hold off on it, but I think we have to either get Mr. Halamicek in here & talk to him & see if he can't do something uh & in the meantime & then work somethin' out. & then in the long-term, say that's it! I mean uno u, u have to do something with this operation because it's -
We've HAD this problem & uno that before, we've paid good money in order to remove this concrete that was poured on OUR property & uh it was a lotta concrete - a LOTTA concrete! If we wouldn'tve been able to use that concrete in our levee as eng'd fill & mix it in the eng'd fill, we'd probably STILL be payin' uh to put it in a landfill because it's SPECIAL waste. So it's uno it's, we either get it settled NOW & get him on the right track or else uh I, I uno we'll be, we'll be payin' for it later on.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 12 of 29
MP: YH. DM: MP. MP: I have a ques. What's more important, your haul road or keepin' your relief wells clear? DC: Relief wells. MP: Well, that's a no-brainer isn't it? EM: Well, they're both important. I mean _ - MP: Well what's important the relief wells which cost big money or (this?) little road? EM: We're, we're workin' on both of them at the same time. It's not a ques of priorities. MP: With who? EM: (Wilken?). MP?: With who? EM: Wilkens. DC: Right.
EM: This JUST came up Friday or Thursday again. MP?: (Oh?). MP: U mean that water's been sittin' in there just since Thursday - the milky water? DM: How long - DC: Oh no. DM: has he been dumpin this? DC: Oh no! DM: It's not like a wk thing as MP is sayin'. It sounds like it's been - DC: No, it's been, it's been seeping in, into this thing for oh, uh when they were put, startin' to put the relief wells in - the water was in there. MP?: _ not (foreseen?) - DC: But the other day, he just -
EM: It was just noticeable Thursday _ - DC: The other day - EM: Wednesday _ _ - DC: it really was bad because it was a slow kind of drain drainin' thru this pile of gravel that he had there with the slow rain thru it & just runnin' down, but then when the water built up behind the gravel & started floodin', I guess his parking lot or whatever, he took a front-end loader & pushed the gravel outta the way & the water just flooded down the hill & uno eroded - ERODED down.
Uh the other problem is there's still concrete that was not removed that's STILL up there that we'll - we're going to have to put a dirt cover on to hope we can get grass on it. & if he continues to do this thing, we'll never get grass growin' on it uh it - because I mean it's, it's an ON-GOING problem that has to be solved in the very near future because they wanna get these things - this det pools dressed out & get uh grass seed - get 'em seeded & everything so we don't know what - eliminate the erosion & everything that goes on that they don't have to put more dirt on it every time it is.
So uh if u go look at it, u'll see immediately the problem that, that, that's up there. I mean it's - I can only tell u what I saw. I mean it's, it is - we're, we're goin' back to where he's gonna be - if we let him dump the water, pretty soon he's gonna be unloadin' his truck - DA: YH. DC: & I wouldn't - we'll have the concrete run-off goin' down on in there. & uno it's not - uno (he stops).
DM: DA. DA: Yes, um the owner of this biz has been a really - a pretty good partner to the City VP thruout this process & we've been able to manage thru issues in the past. Um just by what DC has told me tonight, I understand a little bit more of it now than I did when we, we started this evening & perhaps his biz doesn't realize the impact that they're having & the, the long-term impact they're gonna have on this levee. & I think given the opportunity to understand that, hopefully they'll do the right thing. Um I think we should give 'em the opportunity in a very short fashion to do that. & then if that doesn't work, then THAT will be the time to be a little more forceful at this time.
But I think the fact that, as u said, educate them on how this action works. I'm not sure that I understand exactly how a relief well works, but it, it's obviously a, a pretty strict signs for an eng'd process & perhaps explain to them our levee could fail & just uh, he might get us to use all kinds of signals. At least it's come to that; not that it hurts to not talk about doin' a very short lease kind of a thing.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 13 of 29
DM: He used to dump concrete here before & we've told him u can't do it so I don't know - I think he's just doin' something that he knows that's it's sick. EM: Well, I don't - I, I intend to talk to him. Remember, this area's still under control of the contractor, ESI &, & they've got a dialogue going with him. The city won't have to dialogue one way or another. We'll get 'em to talk.
DC: Right. I mean we're gonna - ?: _ _ _ - DC: We're going to have to keep this, we're going to have to keep this on our mind because of the fact is, when we work all this biz out, hopefully, we will, we will come to a successful conclusion but it's something that's goin' on & want u to be made aware of it that uno what, what it is. Now a relief well works this way. We've got - they drill down so far in the ground to the point where they could - where they're designed to do it, & then they sink this well. & as, as the _ - pressuring on the outside of the levee gets water into it, this comes up thru this & it has a check value in it & it keeps it closed. It keeps the water from the uh det pond from we have a flood of water, interior water from goin' down into there. But when we have a flood, this builds up & builds up & pretty soon it will release the pressure to keep the underneath, the underneath part of this levee from startin' to float around.
EM: It had problems with the CHECK valves. DC: & it's a check - EM?: _ _ - DC: valve - it is. It's a check - EM?: _ levee - DC: valve - DA: Might find out - DC: in there - DA: if u go help him - DC: to keep it - DA: change it all.
DM: If that got messed up, will we have to tear out the levee & get in & replace that? DC: Oh, yeah! I mean it'll be full of concrete. I mean - DM: We'd be at risk for flooding while we're workin' on that, short of puttin' a lotta dirt & - DC: Right. DM: sandbags around the outside.
DC: 'cause the concrete'll go inside of it. If u have this in here when u get water in the det pond, it's all goin' down in this check valve. It's gonna be solid with concrete. It won't work. It won't move. I mean that's all -
DM: Well, since u're able to explain it to us in 5 mins, can u go down there on your own so we don't have to involve EM here in it & say look, don't dump the dirt or we're gonna sue u from here to kingdom come? Or don't dump whatever u're dumpin' in there? I mean that's - DC: Oh, well, yeah I mean we uno we can go -
DM: I mean if somebody told me - DC: I'll, I'll be - DM: If somebody's dumpin' dirt - DC: I, I, I'll, I'll be - ?: _ _ - DM: in the middle of the street & blockin' traffic, we'd be on 'em right now, but down there, he's just dumpin' with - ?: _ - DM: _ - EM: I, I'm, I'm already involved! We're, we're, we're - DC: He's involved doin' it _ - EM: getting ROW from him &, & at the same time we wanna get this sump (thing?). _ _ _ (work?), we'll work it out & it will be resolved! DC?: _ -
MP: 2nd time around. DM: MP. MP: How long before it's worked out? Before it gets plugged up (a rat?)? EM: It, it's not - it's not gonna get plugged up. It's not an immediate problem! It's...(exchange tapes)...
EM:.._ uh a haul route thru his property & at the same time, maybe discuss what's going ON with the concrete & WHY he's not in compliance with a host of regs re concrete (someone coughs) & (how much dumping?) & there's MORE, MORE OTHER problems other than just his levee, our levee. I mean there's, there's - he's violating some, some other things (recover?) _ - DC: Ok. EM: & they'll all be worked out with at the same time.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 14 of 29
MP: Now back to my ques. How long? DC: I can't, I can't - EM: Well, I mean we, we're waiting for our contractor right now & uh - not our contractor, the COE's contractor. DC: Isn't that about this (burn-proof?) -
EM: Matt Magruder (believe name is actually Magurder) - DC: this new haul road that we're gonna put thru there _? EM: We met with him Friday & he - DC: hopefully uno the proc (?) will be by - EM: _ _ - DC: by next wk we'll have this haul road uh problem worked out & maybe be puttin' some - ?: (Who?) - DC: into that. & then I think uh they're in discussions with him too I think about dumping the stuff down there.
We can, we can contend with it right now but uh it, it has to be be, it, it has to be once & make known to him that he can't just be lettin' this water run down in there. That's - it's gonna (DC stops) - EM: I mean, I mean there, there is a build-up. DC: Right. EM?: Something _ _ _ _ -
DC: If we let it get - the thing I say, if we get a lotta - let him get away with dumpin' the water, washin' the trucks out, just havin' the water go thru there, pretty soon he'll be doin' concrete dumpin'. On the trucks comin' in, he don't have a place to do it, he'll start dumpin' concrete. That's, that's what he did before & that's what will go on. I can guarantee u that! Mr. Halamicek will do it if he can get away with it. He did if before. We'd go down & talk to him about dumpin' & u could go down there & pretty soon there was wet concrete dumped all over the place on all - it - (I can remember this?). & he (DC stops) -
MP: YH, Do I still have the floor? DM: U still have the floor, yes. MP: Listening to DC here, it just seems like it's gonna be an on-going problem. So - DC: Well, I - MP: _ _ - DC: I think we're - DM: _ _ - DC: gonna make it NOT an on-going problem. We CAN'T make it on-going problem because - MP?: _ _ - DC: when the levee's done, it's not gonna be the contractor's problem & it's not gonna be the COE's problem; it's gonna be OUR problem. & then WE'LL have to go down & clean the concrete out or do whatever we have to do; either dredge the det pond out & get all the concrete out of it.
I mean it - uno as soon as we work out this problem with the emerg road, I think that we should get down there & get Mr Halamicek out there & show him what's gonna have to be done. Either uh put up some of these concrete things that he's got, bumper things, that he's got around his place & secure 'em so the water don't go down there. & have him some kind of a, a place to put that water or haul it somewhere else & dump it.
I mean that's - I mean this, I, I don't see that Mr Halamicek is only gonna be the one person that we're gonna have to - on that whole side of that levee, on that north side of the levee, uh det pond & them slopes, we're gonna have to keep on ALL these people down here for not dumpin' on it.
I mean & that means Mr Simpson, the other concrete plant, uh the block plant & uh maybe even uh Rideout down there from movin' what, whatever he, he's gonna do. We're gonna have to keep an eye on it because they've done it before & they'll keep doin' it unless u put - unless we have some kind of a, a fencing or make it known that uno we, they WILL clean it up if it gets over on the levee property or on our property, & it's a hazard to the levee, that they will be made to clean it up!
MP: U need an axiom from the bd to do that? EM: We have a no-trespassing ord - DC: Right. EM: now & then that's the, the strongest thing I think the city can do. Uh we just have to _ - DC: It'll just have to be enforced. I mean it'll be - uno it won't be like well, uno, say well, he's this & that. I mean u're gonna have to say to him, well, u can't do or u WILL clean it up. I mean it, it'll be YOUR expense.
DA: YH. DM: DA. DA: If I could, right now, as a, a resident, u cannot drain your swimming pool off into storm water - uh it just against the law! & I can tell u that uno, that there are probably multiple violations thruout that whole stretch there which at some point in time we may have to get strong-armed. I can tell u (if or half?) uno what I'm saying.
Um concrete which contains chemicals & runoff to that effect - there's probably a LAW bein' violated, stronger than any law that the City VP would have on the books. So it would probably be in the best interest of that, the property owner & all the propery owners of that area to get this stuff in compliance before a citizen or a mayor or a BOA picks the phone up & calls the appropriate agency FOR this.
& I think, um if I'm understanding DC & EM, they've got a dialogue started now & I think that the uh property owner would like to use this as an opportunity to straighten these problems out BEFORE this bd, or a resident, takes it one step further. It'd be much easier on 'em & that's what I'm suggesting.
I think I understood u - DC: Right. DA: got a dialogue. & I can say, at this point in time that might be the best avenue to allow the dialogue to either fix, ease or fail & then um hopefully, succeed. If it fails, then we've got other avenues at that time. There's no immediate danger is the way I'm understanding it right now - DC: Right. DA: & I have to interpret our expert uh for the first gauntlet. Um tku, that's all I've got.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 15 of 29
DM: DC, Do we know how much has been dumped? It just came to light last Thrusday, but could it be that there's silt or other materials in the ground that's on its way down to the, the dirt, dirt well that's possibly gonna - (a weed blowing?)?
DC: I could all, all I could say is if u wanna go over there & walk - go to the const trailer & just walk down that road to the uh area & just walk a little bit east & a little bit east & u can, west, & u'll see that there IS concrete debris that's still in there. There's concrete debris that was not removed that we'll have to cover up but I mean unless we, until we get it covered up & get grass growin' on it, uh any amt of water is still gonna wash this, some of this debris down into the, into it & uh, & any water or any drain from the concrete plant is still washin' - it, it's still got a way to wash in there! That's, that's all - DM: _ - DC: That's all I can tell u.
DM: When this was found last Thrusday, did u or somebody - DC: Well, it was found before last Thrusday; it was probably early last, next, early last wk one day or the & there were - they discovered that the water was runnin' in there.
DM: Well the day that it was found last wk, did somebody go to Mr Halamicek at that point & say, look, u can't dump that there? DC: I guess they did. DM: & did he just say that he was gonna quit trespassing - DC: They said he was gonna do something, but uh yes, he did; he went & backed in & put another pile of gravel there. But I - that doesn't, that doesn't keep the water from seepin' thru it. As soon as the water gets high enough on this gravel pile he's got, it starts runnin', runnin' right thru it. It starts bleedin' thru it & runnin' down into the - & I mean some of the places where it's run off, is THAT deep, eroded into the slope on the det pond so u -
DM: It seems like if somebody's out here spray painting on the side of the bldg & we said don't do that, if he's spray painting, say, look I told u to stop & he keeps doin' it - he's out here, we told him to stop dumping & he keeps on doin' it, that's - I don't understand why - DC: Well, uno the contractor, the contractor went over & said something to him & he closed the thing up. But I mean it's - DM: Would it help if LtM, send ofcrs over tomorrow & cite 'em? Say u're gonna get so much a day until - DC: That's entirely up to u. That is entirely up to how u wanna handle this. I mean uno maybe u could send some - I mean I, I don't have the authy to go over & tell this man to not uh do this.
DM: Well I do. Lt, I want u to send somebody over there tomorrow morning; if there's any trucks dumping on city property, gets a ticket. Tku. DC: Fine. RH?: Would that be a local violation? DM: Sounds like it. EM: (Not yet?). (someone chuckles) DM: He's told him 3 or 4 times not to do it, it just - DLC?: How u get (him to or into?) to work? DC: Ok, anybody any have ques? DM: Tku. DC: Tku.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 16 of 29
DLC: Got one, one ques yet, Dave. MP?: _ _ _ - DLC: I have one ques please. On our bills in our packet, there is a bill for a relocation of emerg road & the bill was about $62K worth from the COE er the Army, Dept of the Army. Is that a road that's always going to be established or is this what we're talkin' about now, tryin' to put in this emerg road? DC: Relocation?
EM: Yeah, it, it's, it's an up & over. It's - DLC: _ _ - EM: the levee, where the levee blocks the emerg road along the ROW, they're bldg a ramp that would start on the dry side, go up & over & then goes down uh actually east on River Dr & then curls around so a fire engine can thru-reverse that.
DLC: 'cause the RR tracks are blocking - can still get 'em a bridge & get over - is that what u're tryin' to say? That's what this account _ -
EM: Yeah - DLC: _ - EM: well that, that, that's the purpose of the, the relocation - DLC: Right. EM: we called it.
DLC: But that IS what we're talking, the ESSENCE of what we're talking about here, getting this, a road or is that a DIFFERENT one? EM: No, no, no, it's, it's the SAME road. Our problem is is - DLC?: _ _ - EM: where to cross the tracks at &, & um (pause) - So, so we have a short-term solution to a crossing that the, the ques now is, is what are we gonna do about a long-term solution. & I've applied for a new Crossing Permit. We'll just see what the RR wants to do.
DLC: Yeah, but I mean whereabouts - either we can be able to get onto this where it'll go over the (resident right there?) where, where would that be wider & uh stronger & - EM: Oh well - DLC: whatever - EM: this, this is, this is pretty far west, ok. The, the crossing, plus its - we're talking about the, the spur that went to Absorbent Cotton ok, & it goes to Reichhold - DLC?: Right. EM: Ok? & the way that thing - it CURVES into the main line from where it parallels, um so it's like a Y between Marshall &, & the spur. Ok. We HAD BEEN CROSSING on RR - well actually, we've been crossing I guess on Halamicek's property, just his corner of - it used to be Airco but it's gone - right at that corner on the curve & that's where the derailmt occurred.
So the RR's saying we don't want a perm crossing established there, we'll give u a temp crossing where u enter into the Halamicek er the, the Valley Material, it's drawn there _ _ _ _ - EM: We just have to work out for a perm crossing that would be accessible & acceptable for a fire eng! 'cause we want a fire eng to go, basically, straight down the ROW &, &, & that's in the hopper.
?: YH. DLC: I just askin' about this but - EM: Yeah. DLC: uno, (if u're?) talkin' about 2 different items here or actually one - EM: Yeah, it, it's actually 2 different items. I mean (one's or once?) the road - & there's no ques - we have esmt interests from the RR to use that road. What we DON'T have is an esmt entrance from the RR to use this - the ROW off - that, that's right in front of, of Valley Materials' property. That, just that - it's a 20' wide crossing.
DLC: We want this just because u bat an ear at the uh to the levee for the emerging (surely means emergency) vehicles which would be uh bldg of the levee stronger there uno for the, for the truck - so the emerging vehicles - EM: Yeah, _ - DLC: get over - EM: _ _ - DLC: whatever - EM: I, I guess it's bldg it - SURE, it's bldg it stronger because it's bldg a ramp up & over - DLC: Right, a ramp over, then - EM: Right. DLC: over the levee itself would have to be stronger at that point - EM: Aw, it's so - DLC: _ - EM: Yeah, u're right! DLC: _ - EM: U're right.
DLC: Well, that's what they're, that's what they're sayin' in here but they - but it doesn't say WHERE. So that's what we're doin', we're not tryin' - we're not too sure - EM: Yeah. DLC: where we're gonna be able to do this?
EM: Oh, oh no, we know where we're gonna be able to do it. DLC: Ok. EM: It, I - it's already - DC: It's already decided _ - EM: the road, esmts, everything's established & it's down by the closure structure where the RR closure structure is. It's kind of just, just on the, on the other side of the tracks; on the, on the uh east - EM&DC: side of the tracks. EM: &, & the ramp will be - gosh, it's, it, it's I mean it's tailed WAY up - it's maybe 100 ft long.
DC: & it goes down, it goes down the levee, on top of the levee, oh a good distance & then makes a big loop, makes a complete U & then comes back on the River Dr below where the RR tracks crosses River Dr, & then it's, then it goes on up to Mer Sta on River Dr up to Mer Sta Rd; goes across the levee up at Arnold's, up on Old Mer Sta Rd.
JKB: YH. DM: JKB. JKB: So the emerg road'll go back where it was at & this other thing u're talkin' about with Valley Material is just a haul road that u wanna get signed, right?
DC: The uh the way I understand it right now, yes, that's possibly what will happen. I, I don't really know whether we'll, whether that crossing uh will be exactly where it is on the turn. Maybe it will be located further down the track & go up & get on emerg road where it is.
I, I really can't tell u right now until we get some kind of a permit or something from the, to the RR & work out that with the RR where we're gonna cross the track. We may uno have to use Halamicek's property - locate it somewhere else up there. I don't really know how, how, what we're gonna do until we get worked out with the RR & (DC stops) -
EM: We, we actually do have a perm esmt on Halamicek's property but it's - it would be pretty cumbersome. DC: Bockman. (pause) Supposedly we have some kind of agreemt that was signed in 1972 to use that crossing for an emerg road or whatever but we've never been able I guess to come up with the exact paper or whatever it is, so.
EM: I wanna be exact. ?: How do u propose to do that. EM: We found a newspaper article - DC: Right, newspaper, yeah, found a newspaper article that the BOA signed an ord or agreemt with the RR to use that as a crossing, but I (reviewed it?) & _ _ - ?: _ - DC: Ok! DM: Any other ques's? Tku, DC. DC: Ok, tku.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 17 of 29
DM: Under ords & resolutions - we have Bill # 1808 - Was that properly posted? MW: Yes. DM: Please read it in caption form, MW. MW: Um Bill 1808, POrd 1665, an ord vacating Oasis Dr in City VP at its eastern intersection with Pharoah Ave, to its western intersection with Kena St. DM: wbp? JW?: Move approval. DM: Is there a 2nd? ?&?: 2nd. DM: q/c?
DA: Yeah, just one ques - Did we just basically turn this back inta Mother Nature's turf um without doing anything with it? Who's the property being vacated back to? EM: Well, it uh abutting property owners uh rcv'd uh their pro-rata share of, of the uh vacated ways of - the city owns both sides of Oasis, Cairo, Nile, Osiris & Isis, uh & Pharoah, whatever's vacated & that's what the city - the city will get all the, all the, the, the ROW rights.
Um this area is currently a det area of uh some 7 or 8 acres & hopefully when things get along, we'll be able to fill this area in uh over time &, & be able to use it for park space but uh if we - these are Fee Simple - are bascially O, Oasis is a paper street, as is Cairo, Nile, Osiris & Isis. I just didn't have the flags prepared for ALL of them. I've got, I've got the flags prepared for 2 of 'em, the 1st 2.
DM: Any other q/c? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion say - (ayes - none heard opposed) Motion carries. JW: Move to have a 2nd reading. DM: Is there a 2nd? DA: 2nd. DM: All in favor (ayes - none heard opposed) MW, please read it in caption form. MW: Bill #1808, POrd 1665 (same above) JW: Move approval. DA: 2nd. DM: Any q/c? DLC: What ord # would that be? MW: 1665. DM: Hearing none roll call vote please, MW. MW: (vote) 8 yes. DM: Carries as, as an ord.
Bill # 1809 - Was this properly posted? MW: Yes, it was. DM: Please read it in caption form. MW: Bill 1809, POrd 1666, an ord vacating Pharoah Dr in City VP at the intersection of Pyramid on the north to River Dr on the south. ?: Move approve. ?: 2nd. DM: q/c? Hearing none, all in favor say - (ayes - none heard opposed) Motion carries. Is there a motion for a 2nd reading? ?: So moved. MMW?: 2nd. DM: All in favor - (ayes - none heard opposed) Motion carries. MW. MW: Ok, Bill # - DM: _ _ 09 on its 2nd reading. MW: Bill 1809, Ord 1666 (same above). JW: Move approval. ?: 2nd. DM: q/c? Roll call vote, please...MW: (vote) 8 yes. DM: Motion carries.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 18 of 29
Next, Dept Reports - under the Mayor's Report, I just have 2 items. We have an opening on the PKS Cmte. I've talked to Mrs. Kettler briefly, also uh helping needed (hem large purposative??) which uses the PKS Bd, so I talked to Bobby Sue Martin who's been good working with it - came out to our Fishing Derby we had at uh Simpson Lake last month & also coaches various softball & baseball teams & she'd be a good asset so that I would like hear a motion & a 2nd to - I'd like to (quiv?) her to the PKS. DA?: 2nd. DM: q/c? All in favor say (ayes - none heard opposed) Motion carries. We'll have a letter sent to her - (brash?) mayor appreciate the time serving on the PKS Bd.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 19 of 29
The 2nd we've got a levee dedication coming up next month. I know the levee now, as I said earlier, being finished in Sept rather than in June they'd hoped, but mainly the uh COE asked if we could have something in June 'cause Col Wms as the head of the StL ofc for the COE is retiring at the end of the month. So havin' this uh - I guess this a good send-off for him & we'll be pretty well completed with the levee anyway - got a moment - have a big momentous occasion here in town.
We'll have the mtg of the area, the park er the bizmen's assn has agreed to help with some of the funding that'd make this thing look as good as possible. Cgsm Akin is committed to being there; hopefully have at least one of the 2 Senators, uh Sen Talent, Sen Bond'll be there.
_ _ it's good "PR" 'n the (foe?) biz (said or so?) there'd be a big plus for something so they don't always show the negative side & starts (plun?) - said why is that (plun?) - show something here for the town here & the bizs then I think we'll say yes, it's kind of like the city every time this came by it's something really positive - shows that really moving ahead here.
So appreciate the bizmen's assn offering to help. If any ald can be there that day - it'll be rather pretty early in the day of 6/18 & then at the end of the parade, we have the dedication ceremony. Hopefully no rain is - uno last yr it rained on the parade & we still had a pretty good time.
DA: YH, Could I make - DM: DA. DA: a suggestion on this? DM: Yes, u may. DA: Um - ?: (whisper) Shut up. DA: this project's been goin' on for quite a few unit - yrs & have been many of aldermen & people have contributed & their efforts into this that are no longer servin' at the city now. I'd ask that u could extend an invitation to those um -
DM: If I do have a letter started for the past mayors. I guess we could find some other alder, er aldermen who are _ - DA: That'd be - DM: but we need to get (dry?) of - DA: _ - DM: this as well, here if MW or (a few cleared up?). We've (already asked?) the elected officials & have them there as well, give them a, a brief rendition for all the work they've done up to now.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 20 of 29
DM: With that, I think MW has a - MW: The only thing I have is _ - DM: I'm sorry - JW did have something - a new carpet uh for the bd rm & the library rm. Sorry. So u have the floor, JW.
JW: Yeah, I just move that we go out for a bid for uh new carpet OR any other type of flooring I guess is popular & it's like laminate flooring maybe, might be considered uh for the uh library & they've contacted us _ _ go out for bid for that. & I've looked out at our floor & it looks kind of uh worn. I know MMW is considering some modernization up here but it'd be good to know a flooring cost so he can calculate that into the budget. But uh I told him I could ask the bd if they'd consider goin' out for bid for the library & dig this up.
DM: & u wanted to price laminate & burpee both or - JW: I, I - that would - DM: for the library 'n both or - JW: that would give 'em a choice that way. DM: Do the library in the same thing as far as - _ _ _ _ unless we (didn't or need to?) get - with laminate - JW: That's temperature-dropping. If they had both, they could make a choice. They - DM: Ok - JW: They didn't say -
DM: We'll bid both but then hopefully we'll get the final bid by combining the 2. JW: Right. ?: 2nd it. JKB: I'll 2nd that (&?) motion _ - DM: Alright. The motion & 2nd for flooring - any q/c? This is to place it in - to go out for the bids or to place it in - JW: To go out for the bid & then - DM: Ok. JW: uno - DM: & then the price'll be - JW: Right, then the price'll be - DM: Ok. JW: submitted for approval - DM: Alright. JW: to the cmte. DM: So go out bids & then once we get the prospects back - DM?: _ _ - DM: any other q/c?
MMW: YH. DM: MMW. MMW: Like u say, if we go to - a price for laminate flooring also, we should really get a price that's for, for a sound-barrier. JW?: Then it'd be too quiet down there? MMW: It quiets down - JW: Talk to Brust. MMW?: Put some perfume _ _ _ sound-barrier on it - DM: Good, good suggestion. JW: _ _ _ _ _ - ?: _ _ - DM: Any other q/c? JW: _ officer _ _ - DM: Hearing none, all in favor of the motion - (ayes - none heard opposed) (Gavel bang)
JW: YH, I think it would pacify as one item if maybe Helton would - DMorEM?: This is something _ _ _ - (?)
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 21 of 29
JW: Some residents have contacted me & they're upset because there's uh many PPk bizs that have on the side of their vehicles, VP, MO, & some of 'em's a trash co & their trash blows out goin' down the road &, & VP's name is on the door to these trucks or vehicles. & I just need to know if that's proper that they should be advertising they're in VP but they didn't really wanna be in VP. What can we do?
EM: That's their address. I mean that, that's the postal address that they have _ _ VP, MO. (JW laughs) & that has to be - & the post ofc wants u to use that as, as - DM: Guess we're allowed to tell 'em - JW: So, they could have that on their vehicles I guess. EM: I, I think so. That's uh - JW: Well, ain't that somethin'! ?: Like _ _ - JW: A trash co & they throw trash out up the hwy & VP gets the blame! ?: _ _ _ _ _ -
DM: Appreciate the sentiment (someone laughs) - DM?: _ _ _ _ (plopped?) in. JW: What, we can't get no taxes for that? DM?: Trade 'em or buy 'em for _ (_someone coughs_) _ - JW?: That's where they're at. ?: U could fine 'em. JW: Why don't they put StL Cnty on their door? ?: YH. DM: Yeah, since they wanna be StL Cnty - JW: Yeah! DM: _ _ - JW: Maybe that's what they want! JKB?: Keep it up.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 22 of 29
DM: Ok now, MW, sorry about that _ _ - ?: _ _ _ _ - MW: Yeah, I, I just have one thing that's the MO Municipal League, Newly Elected Ofc'ls Conference Form that I put in the packet & if anyone would like to go, uh let me know.
I know DLC _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ SO um but if that's how u'd like to go, let me know & I'll take care of the reservations for everyone. & I - is this on there or not? DM?: Move the pictures.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 23 of 29
DM: Next, PBW Coordr's Report - JM, is there anything u wanted to - I think there was - no, I guess we covered that. We _ - JM: _ - DM: _ the mtg - JM: JKB's (fault?) _ - DM: That's right - JM: _ _ - DM: soil test & street light at 3rd St. JKB?: _ _ - JM: Uh did we wanna go ahead & get this picture? (They kid-around, laugh & take Melies & Louis' picture.)
JM: Uh I actually um did get the info in from Ameren UE. ?: _ _ _ - JM: We requested info on some 2 street lights - total installation costs for both lights is $298 & there will be - JW?: _ _ _ - JM: a $14.30 per month uh fee for the light at the park & $11.27 per month on the 3rd St light, which will be 25.57 a month.
Uh all I need is authn from the bd to sign this. JKB: I would like to make a motion to purchase - ?: _ _ _ - JKB: both lights & have 'em put up. DM: Is there a 2nd? DA: 2nd. DM: q/c? ?: _ - MP: Yes, YH. DM: MP.
MP: Is that on the corner of the ballfield there that we talked about? JKB: _ _ _ - JW: Right in our area? JM: It's near, it's near the playground that there on, that the street shines into the playground, yes. MP: Well, would yes, be in the playground area? Where they're batting _ _ - ?: No. JM: Well, I don't see - ?: no, I won't. JM: I don't see how. We're at the other end of the playground also it seems like - JW: Mark Maguire's comin' thru traffic _ _ _ _ -
MP: Tku, YH. ?: (Is there a bus?)? ?: _ _ _ _ - DM: All in favor of the - ?: (Can we - did?) we vote on it? MW: No, we haven't voted on that. DM: All in favor of the motion for the lights, say (ayes - none heard opposed) Continue please.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 24 of 29
JM: JKB had another item that I wasn't able to hear - JKB: Yeah - ?: _ _ - JKB: Has - JM: what it was. JKB: Has anybody found out what they - if they found anything over there on 3rd St when they did that soil uh, tested the water or somethin'?
JM: Yeah, I, I'm not for sure what they were doing exactly, JKB.. (Loud noise of something falling over) JM: I believe they were doing - JW: His nerves _ _ his grip (chuckle). JM: uh some remediation - they're doin' some um (pause as he stares at EM) some testing (someone coughing) - ?: _ _ - JM: but after they also doin' some remediation. We would have to contact DNR or possibly Geldbach to get a report from that. There was something that is - Geldbach was mandated to do thru MDNR I believe he said.
DM: So will we get a copy even tho it was thru DNR, do uno? JM: I'm sure that we can request something there. JKB: If u get it, let me know, will u? JM: Yes, sir, I will. DM: Prefer u get a copy of that.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 25 of 29
JW: YH. DM: JW. JW: Could I ask Jim a ques? DM: Go ahead. JW: How long are we blocked into that uh Fred Weber contract on that trash disposal over there? JM: Umm it was my hope to place a call to him. Uh we got a 3 or 5-yr extension that we continue (do or to?) our contract with a minimal increase. I was hoping to call them & extend that contract.
JW: I'd like u to check with the bd because I personally don't wanna do biz with anybody who doesn't wanna be in VP. & if u remember right, uh Onyx was cheaper than Fred Weber. Somehow we could not go with the low bidder. I know u said it's less flats & it's closer but - JM: Do whatever the bd's pleasure. My, my, my concern as the PBW Dir, JW, is, is, is if we go to bid & Onyx is the low bid, StL Cnty doesn't approve of banks, we're right back a yr & a half or so later, trying to find a place to take our landfill & uno, we could be - ?: _ - JM: (held?) possibly at that point - JM?: _ _ -
JW: THEN we could go to Behnen. There's a, there's a trash one on every corner in PPk. So u can go anywhere. So don't worry about that. MMW?: (Lousy?) viewpoint. I was talkin' to Behnen. (Uno u even set the mtg?). JW: Well, that's what I mean. I, I don't think we should - ?: _ _ _ _ _ - JW: extend ANY contract without pricing other with other people. MMW: YH. DM: Is the motion to go out for bids? JW: Yeah, if he's lookin', yeah. DM: MMW.
MMW: Yeah, I was, I was just gonna say that uh I had read in, in some of the newsletter that comes out from Onyx, that's uh they've pretty much come out & said that if the cnty doesn't approve the expansion without limit, that will leave Onyx trash removal svcs with health care (as exceptional?) so - ?: So what _ _ _ _ - ?: So they could be in biz for a long (period or run?). JM: But only their trash people - MMW: Exactly! JM: _ but we couldn't take our trash there is what - MMW: Correct. JM: u're tellin' me? MMW: Correct.
DM: But if we became - JW: If we was one of their customers. MMW: If we could take, yeah, if they came & picked up the trash for VP with their trucks - ?: With _ _ _ _ - DM: But we couldn't take our trucks - MMW: Right. DM: down there & get - MMW: Correct. DM: our trash transferred? MMW: Correct, that's what they're, that's what they're saying.
DM: I was at a cnty (moose-speaking?!) mtg last month & a couple workman there, they're for the cnty, said they don't think Onyx is gonna get renewed. MMW: Yeah, _ - DM: pretty sure it's pretty dumb, this is their last chance to dump trash. MMW: Well, that's (one of the highest ones in?) there. I don't think they're gonna allow the amt of (trash or transfer?). Odds are very, very good they're not gonna give 'em (the permit if?) they don't, so they're just figuring that everybody who thinks they're (up?), they're gonna only allow their own trash pick-up _ _ -
JW: So, so - MMW: _ _ - JW: (the effect is save?) $10K for 5 yrs; take advantage of what u can, while u can. MMW?: (Yeah?). JKB: YH. JW?: Yeah (chuckle). DM: JKB. JKB: Have we had less flat tires 'n - on their truck?
JM: We've only had one flat tire in the last yr since the last bill. Um the, the biggest reward that I've seen from it was (Earth?) Day Clean-up. We were, we were able to haul, we hauled 8 loads on Tuesday off of the Tuesday trash route. Uh & would've never been able to got 8 loads if Onyx Landfill had not been there, but tryin' to explain to anybody _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _. We, we had one flat & we were able to get it out of there that fast that we were runnin' 2 trucks, but we, we were able to get it in & out the 4 times. There were those were the benefits.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 26 of 29
JW: Now that's - now that u touched on big trash pick-up - that's - 'cause somebody's gonna have to come up & revisit that because uh there's been residents that bring in their families' out-of-town junk & haul it in there & I believe that (cinderdee?) is bein' pilferaged off of that system & we're bein' abused & uh it's a shame. It's a good svc but I believe we're gonna have to revisit that because uh - which is just gettin' abused. Gonna have to be a new scheme come up with out of somebody's cmte on how we do that because it's just too wide open.
MMW: YH, I show a blonk upon blank of uh molten-liquor cmts I have rcv'd 2 um maybe even a few complaints of the increase in uh monthly trash removal fees & they (instill or it's still?) the large-trash pick-up there. They were apt to see it - of people that have called me that would rather see large-trash once a yr & no increase in their fees than um their fees _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ & the subject might be a good idea (to bid or depends?) on how they'd drawn that -
JM: May I, may I address the (rule or room?). I _, I, I agree but there's - uno we, (if?) we only picked up one time a yr, if we didn't put limitations on it, we would still pick up the same amt of trash just doin' it once a yr. So I mean we would, we would have to revisit it for a little bit - MMW: Yeah. JM: of changes. MMW: Yes.
DM: Do we have a 2nd on JW's motion for going out for bids on trash pick-up - which trash svc _ _ - ?: _ - ?: I'll 2nd it. ?: Ques. DM: MP. MP: Will they be sealed bids? Or is it gonna be like the last uh some - this cluster where they come in here & these, these companies sat out there & started tellin' their prices? By the time we got to the last one, they were the lowest bid. It was a real joke.
DM: I told Weber that we wanted sealed bids & he said well, this is our posted price. This is what we do, so I guess we could ask 'em to either seal it or not even deliver it this yr but even tho - need to - that warning. I assume they're still interested _ _ _ & his - all 3 submit the bids & cmte can open 'em up & go thru 'em rather than the 1st one saying we're gonna do it for - whatever, say $20 a ton; & next one say, oh we can do it for 27/75; & the 3rd one, _ _ $24 -
JW: As long as we don't invite 'em to set out there, u won't have that. DM: Yeah, & we can say to submit the bids & we'll go thru 'em & invite 'em for that follow-up mtg then clarify or have 'em set up alternates _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - JM: We may be able to have 'em uno send 'em in a sealed envelope & not even have 'em present. & again, I, I've yet to look at the ord book & um (I didn't tell 'em?).
DM: I mean if u'd open up earlier & then have them - if, if there's a case with any ques's like make sure that's, if it's for one yr or five yrs & what the rates would be for a yr if there's any - in case there's some info. I guess make sure it's clear how they're submitted so they don't - somebody's getting one rate _ _ -
JM: Do we need to review our, our contractor we currently have before we make a decision?
EM: I, I, I'll take a look at it & - JM: I'm, I'm just askin' for a leak (seems started to say legal) - I don't wanna get himself into - comes automatically. Are we OBLIGATED is all I'm askin'. DM: Yeah, maybe we need to know whether or not we have to give 'em 30 days notice since it's comin' up the end of May _ - JM: Yeah, but our - DM: check - JM: our job - DM: with the (applicant?) - JM: end of June; 6/29 I believe is the date.
DM: DLC, Did u have a ques? DLC: Yes, uh approximately how many wks & places do we have the option of GOING TO? JM?: 3. JM: Actually, I, I think we only have 2. I don't um I don't believe that Behnen's is open yet. Um so then we have Fred Weber & Onyx & then we have Onyx that we know what - their, their fate's in StL Cnty's hands right now.
DLC: I'm, I'm kinda agreein' with MMW. I read that in the paper also that they are not uh bringin' 'em, releasin' 'em from the cnty. I understand it, but I don't think they WILL _ _ & all indications they're NOT going to be, & they said that they would only have Onyx people out there. & I don't wanna get our - I wouldn't wanna build a noose, get ourselves in a, in a BIND, then all of a sudden 6 months down the road, we can't go to Onyx & all of a sudden we've got - we HAVE to go begging back to somebody else to take us. So I wouldn't wanna take the chance.
EM: We, we'd be in dated-contract with 'em. They'd have Knowledge Of Contract _ _ _ - DLC: Well yeah - EM: for whatever term u (want?) - DLC: I don't get that. I mean for a period of, a short period of time one yr or whatever - EM: U're right. DLC: & I _ _ _ _.
DM: (That'd gree?) (of or if?) Onyx was gonna be open for long-term, which it appears they're not, then I'd say - but otherwise, uno, I'd - DLC?: If _ - DM: _ _- DLC?: just goin' for that - (_someone coughs_) - DM: _ _ - DLC?: same term, I'll - DLC: I'm glad (u're - it'll?) be interesting uh move, especially if one to the other & back again - (with?) some type of agreemt.
DM: Any other - JW: YH. DM: ques's? JW. JW: I, if u want, we could ask him to bid (but?) it'd be a 3-yr or 5-yr contract - if that satisfies the bd. DLC: Well I'd go along with that _ _ - JW: because uh - DLC: _ _ close up on us uno. JW: U HAVE to go with the low bid.
?: Well, u don't _ _ have to. JW: Well, u explain - DLC: U SHOULD. JW: it to YOUR VOTERS why u - DLC: Well, u, I mean - JW: why u didn't do it, but I'm - DLC: U SHOULD go with the low bid but u don't HAVE to. JW: U'd better have a good reason why if u don't. DLC: Right, but u don't have to. DA: YH. DM: 'n if Onyx said going (to owe u?) to 3 yrs until u're slowly closed down, then what can we do if that's - JW: Got a contract - DM: _ _ - JW: I guess u can sue 'em! DM: Meanwhile the trash could pile up. DA.
DA: Yes, just a, a cmt. Certainly I think whatever we decide to do, we have ('em each?) get a long-term contract; however, it, it does appear that the um trash collection & transfer stations are gonna be a, an item certainly of the future & what the city will need to do is budget accordingly - that we may get several yrs out of Onyx. However, our sanitation dept currently runs RIGHT AT a break-even point. Um & I think to budget falsely or at a lower rate & then put it into a, a crisis down the road would be a, an injustice to our residents in time. I mean it's going to cost more in the future to remove our trash. We need to um (deemed?) appropriately our budget accordingly for the next uno 2, 3 yrs. So I think a long-term contract would, would solve that, however, I think the future is an evil refuge & _ _ _ _ these other facilities.
DM: Don't we already have long-term with Weber - if we choose to just renew it, we could pick it up? JM: I, we would have to refer to the contract or EM but I believe that the bd approved Fred Weber's contract uh & it's based on a 3.1% increase over the course of uno 1 yr, every yr for _ so many yrs; I don't know if it's 3 yrs or 5 yrs, YH. DM: But Mr Weber obviously has more capability in the future 'cause if they've taken their trash up to (land or whether?) Onyx' future is not promising (unless Onyx?) - I just recommend we stay with Weber. Let's see how it look - turns out here. Any other q/c? All in favor - JW: _ - DM: JW.
JW: Why would u recommend to stay with Fred Weber besides u've taken the tour & flip-floppin' on the issue of whether u wanted it or not? DM: Well just 'cause I took a tour, doesn't mean I'm FOR them. They invited me out there - JW: Well, u - DM: to look at it, so it's not like I - JW: If u spoke - DM: _ _ _ - JW: against 'em in the beginning & then u turned & said that u thought it would be a good thing to have _ -
DM: I wasn't against 'em in the beginning. The gentleman, Derrick Stanley, came in from Weber & showed how they put - would u rather have the pictures of other facilities that were well designed & showed 'em taking the trash to some place where they can burn, like at Union Electric, which MMW & I attended some mtgs with the cnty where they're doing some trash or a facility. I guess we're tryin' to get a handle on how this trash is gonna be handled thruout the cnty once we had the council, St L Cnty Council havin' to have - worried about south cnty - let them (wreck without the cure?) - we wanted to give him the same initiation. But (what's or once?) here, 'cause u're having to take advantage of what we've got here, why as JM, said we're able to take 8 loads over here but we wouldn'tve been able to take near as many over to Onyx - fewer flat tires & less gas, less labor if, if used. So I'm not doing this 'cause I'm partial to Weber; I was just tryin' to work out what's best for the city.
MMW?: I can see how Weber's _ (_ someone coughs _) MMW: Another quick cmt is on - in the beginning, I was very, very skeptical of Fred Weber & I had gone to the mtgs as well & heard a lot of - er I heard (I think?) we lost (near as 40?) um that frankly have never materialized at their op over there. & after seeing their op & seeing it run, I really believe they're actually doing a decent job over there & I think they've been a good neighbor to this point. Um perhaps _ _ _ _ trash blowing off their trucks & having VP's um address on there. But they, they've done a much better job than I initially thought they had; uh they didn't upfront. & the fact of the matter is that they're there. We're - they're not gonna be goin' anywhere & uh we should make the best of the situation. JW: _ _ - MMW: If they're the cheapest, but u also have to take into acct if it's uno better facilitates our PBW Dept getting the job done. Um time is money also.
JW: Do u mind that they didn't wanna be in VP? MMW: I'm not so sure that they didn't want to be in VP as uh - for the (flu?) (combining or complying?) it was um with respect to what they're expecting out of the Cnty Council & another citing for the (place or players?). I think they're just playing those political cards to further their own biz.
DM: All in favor of the motion to - ?: _ _ - DM: go out for bids, say aye. DLC: Read, read the motion please. MW: I thought JW moved to go out for bids for uh trash landfills for the city; 2nd by SD.
DLC: I would like to amend it to read some timeframe. JW: 3 to a - 3 or 5-yr contract will be fine. MW: 5, 3, 5 to 3 contract? Is that alright with SD who 2nd it?. SD?: That's fine. MW: Ok. DM: All in favor as amended, say aye - (ayes - none heard opposed) Motion carries. ?: _ _ - DM: Tks for (slighting or sliding?) it. Anything else, JM? ?: That's all that's on here. DM: Tku. Ok, Lt Melies, promise, this is the last time we'll bring u up tonite...(exchange tapes)...
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 27 of 29
...LtM:...it's in the uh packet - (didn't?) wanna call your attn that the o - reported overall incidents were up (2?) % uh in this month, the 2nd month in a row, that we're up, so uh those vandalisms & burglaries are probably the biggest contributor (& both?) - & all those vandalisms have been cleared & uh clearances were up a lot anyway. That's all that's in there unless I can answer any ques's.
DA: YH, Just one - DM: DA. DA: quick cmt to um Lt Scott - um several wks ago I'd gotten an opportunity to see your ofcrs um in a, a situation um &, & I was real - this was the 1st time I really got to see a live-action crime scene & I was really impressed. &, & again, furthers my uh support that I _ _ _ _, u - u're a good man for the cnty police. So I just wanna pass that on. LtM: Tku. ?: _ _ - DM: Tku, LtM.
JW: YH. DM: JW. JW: Hey, Scott, just wanted to uh let uno that u missed a good, good breakfast there at the uh StL Cnty - LtM: Oh! DM: _ _ MW did too _ _ _ _ - (MW laughs) JW: Yeah, she missed it too. She was there but she missed it too & uh Ofcr Lang did a good job fillin' in for _. LtM: Oh, good, tks. MW: Did a very good job _ _ (they laugh) DM: U didn't let him see that. MW: No.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 28 of 29
DM: Next, we have the bills. wbp? JW: She was there Tuesday. DA: Move to pay the bills. DM: Is there a 2nd? SD?: I'll 2nd that & _ - JW: YH. DM: Any q/c?
JW: I have one, YH. DM: JW. JW: I see that there's a uh waste mgmt bill in there. What would that be for? I thought we bought containers so we could pick-up all the trash in VP. We bought the new truck with the wench on it & there's a bill for waste mgmt in there - $114 or something like that. JM: (speaking from back of room) I could only assume it's because they didn't (propose?) their dumpster till the end of the month.
JW: So there won't be any new waste mgmt bills? JM: I can tell u that there won't be any waste mgmt bills from Brignole Ctr or Brignole Ballfield. There's 2 dumpsters in place. I don't know if we have any _ _ _ _ - JW: We wouldn't have any other for anything else unless uno _ _ - JM: Unless there's something at Leonard Pk & I don't know that they are but I, I, I thought she had that removed in the past _ _ _ _ there's no dumpster there.
JW: Ok, 'cause I was just wonderin' if uno - said we wasn't gonna use anybody besides ourselves so that's why I just was wonderin' why that was in there. JM: They, they uh they left it into the other _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _. JW: _ _ that's the way u got uh employees that can go home at 1:00 if we're payin' somebody else to pick their trash up.
DM: Any other ques's on the bills? All in favor of paying the bills - (ayes - none heard opposed). Motion carries.
5/16/05 BOA - Sec 28 of 29
Is there a motion to go into Exec Ses. ?: So moved. JKB?&?: 2nd. (roll call vote) MW: 8 yes. DM: LtM, Would u clear the room? We'll go in Exec Ses, please. (end taping)