Notes:   Last mtg was 9/19/05.  After JZ, EM & DC quietly discussed flood-map zoning & other levee-related topics, RW teased EM about taking too long to return his calls & going on Florida tours, RW & JW discussed the Behnen family, Gambrill Gardens & an extravagant property, this "mtg" started at 5:10pm, had no quorum, was not called to order & lasted until about 5:57pm. >  Reminder:  Italics indicates barely audible speech.  >  10/17/05 LPR


Present:   RW,  DS,  DC,  JZ,  EM,  JW,  JKB.   


Audience:  Vivian Blackman, VP resident & biz owner. 


10/17/05 LEV - Sec  1 of  15


EM:  Dave, it's 10 after!  JZ?:  'cause they're not comin' back _ - DC:  Let's - like we'll get into this.  Ok.  Uh we don't have a roll-call mtg here so - but we'll have a little discussion.  Roll call - let's see - we got some things to _ - JKB.  JKB:  I'm here.  (JW chuckles)  DLC, absent;  JW is here;  Drake - JW:  Is Drake comin' in soon (he laughs) DC:  Yeah, he's supposed to be one of the - JW:  (laughing)  Yeah _ - DC:  Halamicek, he's never here;  Wilken's here;  Probert never comes.  DS:  He's -  DC:  DS.  DS:  he's working.  (He's at the garage & his wife?).  He's workin'.  EM?:   But he's comin';  he's (called me?).  JW:  I think he's sick.  EM:  His wife XXXXXX XXX.  JW:  Then he won't be goin' anywhere.  EM:  Light work that (absolves him?).  JKB?:  That (Muriel?) -


DC:  Ok, let's have a little Pledge of Allegiance here & we'll get on with this. (Pledge)  JW:  Maureen, I couldn't hear ya.  M:  I don't say that;  it's propaganda;  doesn't apply to me. (JW chuckles)  DC:  Does anybody wanna add anything to the uh agenda?  Can't approve it, so.  RW:  I wanna talk about some things (before meeting?), but that's already on here, so.  DC:  Yeah, we'll talk about something like that.  Ok, discussion items, Item 4B Update - u wanna kick it off, Jim? 


10/17/05 LEV - Sec 2 of  15


JZ:  Oh, this is what - EM?:  I gave 'em _ - JZ:  Yeah, yeah, that's a - EM passed out an email from me to our, to our team which includes the city & so EM was included, letting everyone know that, that our uh area eng for const declared the Item 4B Contract substantially complete on 10/7.  It's a const term meaning that he's esentially finished with the contract but we still have some inspections to do & some uh, uno some punch-list items that have to be corrected.  & but from the standpoint of uh progress, he's substantially complete.  &, & that's - to me was uh was some wonderful news & I wanted to let our, our whole team know about it because not everybody is kept up todate uno because of all the work that's been done, all the other contracts, all the land acquisition & all, all the other stuff that's goin' on for many, many yrs.  We now have flood protection for VP. 


10/17/05 LEV - Sec 3 of  15


Um so that's, that's one - I guess I've got 2 major pieces of info;  that's one of 'em & the other one is that um uno we still need to pay our contractor.  We, we still owe him a lotta money & uh - EM: _ _ Mastercard -  JW: (chuckling) Tku, tku note.  JZ:  He's getting a lotta pressure from, from uh his parent co - DC:  Right.  JZ:  & um who is, who is footing all the bills &, & so uno -


I'll just bring u a little bit up todate on where we are on that.  Um & FY 2005 ended 9/30, ok.  & prior to that we had a mtg with the contractor in July.  I kinda went, went thru the, the whole situation with him um & we, on a, on a hand-out I had given uno what the cost of the total contract was est'd to be at that time, just $15.4M (which was the COE's 11/92 est'd TOTAL Project Cost with  mid-late 1990's completion date) & pointed out that uh a small amt of money has - the city has contrated with our, with OUR contractor to do some sanitary sewer relocation & a - & the emergency road relocation.  Uno their - those 2 items total up to about $81K & uh so that could - uno since that was the CITY's deal, so that left us like $15,330K that we owed the contractor, we, the city & the COE, owe the contractor for just strictly flood control FEATURES um but - TOTAL. 


& we made a lotta paymts in, in FY 04 with fed funds, um both city & fed funds & we made some paymts in FY 05;  early in the yr we'd had some money we were able to transfer into the project back in Nov & pay all his bills up thru FY 04.  & back at that time we still owed the contractor about $7.2M in July & uh since then, in Sept, we were, we were able to pay the contractor the hundreds - u don't care about all these #'s, but I'll get u to the, the final # pretty quickly.  We paid the contractor about $165K of money we had in our project, fed funds.  Uh we had, still had 21K of some sponsor cash contributions which we paid to the contractor. 


& um & toward the end, the very end of the FY, we were, the dist, the StL Dist was able to transfer money from other projects into the VP Project & we paid the contractor $507K with THAT money.  So that's good for the contractor;  um not - doesn't help us a whole lot because we have to repay those, essentially repay almost all the dollars we've moved into our project.  We have to give them money back in FY 06. 


So um uno in FY 06 we had asked the sponsor by letter to the mayor for $477K & that money is in the escrow acct, put into the escrow acct, ready for us to use.  Um we also for your info, uno we, we do not have an aprop by Congress for the entire FY 06 yet, there, there's been no bill passed, ok.  So they op on what's called a Continuing Resolution & they're allowed us, allowed us to kinda spend money thru 11/18.  Um but we don't have any act of Congress passed yet.  Well, under this Continuing Resolution we were able to pay the contractor $1,073K with fed funds.  So now I'll be withdrawing some money from the escrow acct fairly soon to kinda match those kinds of money & pay the contractor with that withdrawn money. 


But the bottom-line is if u do all the math is that um we will be using the city's entire $477K & after all the money that we've paid so far, we still owe the contractor about $5M, using round #'s, of, of fed money.  So he's out $5M uno 477K approx right now & that's a big concern on their part.  Uno my main hope is & message is that we hope that Congress passes the law, the aprops bill, with the money that was in the Pres's budget for VP & that amt of money is - we talked about this several times - is uh $7,582K.  Uno we hope Congress passes that law with that money in there for VP.  & no one knows for sure what they're gonna do obviously.


JW:  Is all the city's matching - will they, will they owe any more or is that - JZ:  It is, it is all but $20K of the - according to the last cost sharing uh 'n TPC est, uh which would - I can talk about - we're gonna - there's another line item on the agenda here to talk about that, but - JW:  That's _ - (someone coughs)  JZ:  _  $(7?)K partly kept back because we expect to not really get all the fed money because every time they aprop money, the 7 - uno if, if Congress pases a law that says the COE would get $7,528K as what's in the Pres's budget, typically what happens is before it gets to the COE, there's a reduction - JW: Right - JZ:  it's applied to ALL the projects across the country & they get - it's 10% - it depends - every yr it changes so we think something will be re(pause) subtracted out, but we didn't ask for 100% of the sponsor money.  So that, that's the money situation.  Um -


RW:  The 5M u owed the contractor u said - that's what u just said u owe 'em - JZ:  Right.  RW:  5M.  JZ:  Fed.  RW:  Fed.  What's the other 2.5M for?  That's, that u asked for is what I'm askin'.  JZ:  Well, if, if we get that money, uno 1st of all we have to - the money, the money that we got already, the Million 1 - JW:  Pay back the borrowed money?  JZ:  one - 035?  RW:  Uh-huh.  JZ:  That, that is um - I'm, I'm sorry, 1M075, 73K, that's this FY's money also.  So he - RW:  Oh, ok.  JZ:  gets to take that off, okThat's just - RW:  I follow u now.  JZ:  They gave us that money early so to speak.  Then we get - we theoretically have to pay back - I THINK we'll have to pay back the 507K that we uh got from other projects - RW:  _ _ _ - JZ:  at the end of - RW: _ _ - JZ:  the FY. 


& then, then the rest of the money is um - well, we might not get it all because of Savings & Slippage, but if we got it all - RW:  That's obvious tho.  JZ:  What it's used for is - what it's gonna be used for - well, there's still extra money - uh we pay uh the contractor off.  Uno & depending on when we get it, we'll have to - we'll owe him interest uno however many months it is before we actually get the money. 


But um besides that, we have to do Op & Maint Manual for the project.  We have to do what's called As-Built drawings which is to take all the contracts, the P&S, &, & show what was actually built, which is - there are some changes that have taken place, uno with mods on ALL the contracts & they have to be doc'd.  & there was a product prepared uno we'll give the sponsor good drawings of what was actually built & Op & Maint Manual.


Another thing that we have to do is to - we have another - one more item of env'l mitigation that's still coming up which is bottomland hardwoods mitigation & there's gonna be costs assoc'd with that.   Uh then there's the uh final audit uno there's a list of costs & just the general umm financial CLOSE-OUT & really there's also the final - RW:  It's all the LITTLE stuff -


JZ:  The final LERRDS, the final uh lands, esmts, ROW's, credits will be - have to get the final costs for the lands &, & that may - it should - that may uh actually change the cost-sharing depending on what the final land costs are;  those kind of things.  That's, that's all just still remains to be done, which I think is your main ques.


10/17/05 LEV - Sec  4 of  15


EM:  From this declaration, 2 things uh also occur.  There's uh a provision in the fed regs where the city can apply in hand-in-hand with the COE that the project is substantially complete & therefore, a rate adjustmt is in order by FEMA & that's sort of uh a quick uh way to get a rate adjustmt pending cert'n by the COE.  & w-we're proceeding in parallel;  the COE's also - JZ?:  Right.  EM:  proceeding with the cert'n which should take longer.  I've requested that um the COE provide certain materials & docs to substantiate & back-up OUR request for early rate adjustmt.  & um it, it's, it's a VERY difficult time to contact FEMA & talk to anybody - ?: _ _ _ (JW? chuckles) - EM:  since everybody's out in the fields right now;  um so I, I haven't had much luck. 


The - actually, the outfit that the reg says we're supposed to apply to is no longer there &, & hasn't been there for 7 yrs since they did a, a realignmt but we're just tryin' to find out the right person to (_someone coughs_) stuff to 'em.  JZ:  & that's another thing that we're, we're working on with, with the city, uh the hydraulics analysis involved with this submittal to FEMA.  That is fairly complex & takes time & money.  RW:  Yeah, that was - JW:  Hey, Jim - RW:  gonna be my next ques - is there any contingency money in there for anything like if it FLOODED & something would HAPPEN? 


JZ:  Yeah, there's actually some con- well - RW?:  If it flooded & _ - JZ:  in the cost est there's some contingency money, ok, in the - not for - well, for ANY contingency actually - JW:  Kinda like _ - JZ:  but there's only a certain amt of contingency money & mainly it's for things like this contract, the Item 4B Contract, uno it was originally est'd at a certain price & we had 10% contingency.  RW:  I remember u talkin' about that several - JZ:  &, & that's - RW:  months ago.  JZ:  so that's - we're still - looks like we're gonna be under that grand total which is great uno;  better than getting over it.  Um but we're really - uno as we move into - to finalize the project, our contingencies are getting used - uno little delay or used, uno they're no longer there.   There ARE still some contingency monies in the contract & _ -


JW:  Does that - JZ: _  contract.  JW:  total still look like it's gonna be like about $52M?  Was that the last # I'd heard?  JZ:  Well, no, it was, it was uh - JW:  or 55, what - JZ:  the last est - JW:  was it?  JZ:  Nope, it was uh $49,428K total, grand total.  DC:  Is that with all the interest & everything?  JZ:  Well, that's with assuming - yeah, that, yes.


RW:  49,420?  JZ:  49,428 & this is in it - this isn't the - JZorJW:  (fact?) -  JW:  done yet.  JZ:  Uno this is a uh smry that went to u, Eric, back in March.  JW:  Close enough to be (costing?) _  (he chuckles) - JZ:  Smry of our detailed est.  It's uh - this was prepared based on an est that - ?: _ _ - JZ:  10/04 price levels & it still seems reasonably accurate.  We don't have any info that really changes this - these #'s at this point in time.  JW:  Right. 


10/17/05 LEV - Sec  5 of  15


DS:  We should call our contact Vicky Scissors (VP 1997-98 Bldg Inspector/Code Enforcemt Ofcr) in on FEMA.  EM:  _ _ -  might be busy tho.  JZ?:  She's out in the field.   EM:  out in the fields.   JW:  I hope that's not the person that (chuckling)  we gotta - JKB:  Yeah.  JW:  deal with.  ?:  If, if u wanna - RW:  Well what's the difference?!  RW:  They screwed it all up down there in the south  _ _ - DS:  I doubt that that's -


RW:  U think that's gonna have much effect on the FY budget if u get any funds for this?  JZ:  Yeah, it could have a major effect.  RW:  Effect on it?  JZ:  Yeah!  We - I mean it's - that's why I say, we don't know - we NEVER DO know for sure what Congress is actually gonna pass & the Pres sign.  EM:  I mean this may be sort of a political editorializing but uno they're talking about almost a Trillion $ - I, I don't know what, what figures they're throwin' out down there, but uno they're, they're saying there's gonna be no increase in taxes!  The money's gotta come from SOME place!  (pay-backs from those responsible for gov't waste & corruption)


RW:  Right, & _ - EM:  I guess - RW: _ _ - EM:  u can - RW: _ - EM:  keep on - RW: _ _ - EM:  borrowin' it but uh - RW?: Least they're getttin' - DS: _ _ - JZ:   We had - DS: _ if u don't have _ - JZ:  like uno over 80 - DS: _ - JZ:  people down - RW: _ _ - JZ:  down in New Orleans &, & Mississippi - JW:  Mean ol' W!  (he or DS chuckles)  JZ:  for, for a period of time.  JW:  We got the same philosophy.  JZ:  They're starting to come back now.  JW:  I just keeps payin' that.  JZ:  but there's a whole lotta work that's gonna be (un?) done down there;  uno the money's gotta - has to come from somewhere!


EM:  I saw where the canal, at least an expert outta Berkley, uh U Cal at Berkley, was saying that it's because the sheet pilings only went 17' below sea level when it shoud've gone 44' below sea level 'cause they were on a, a bed of peat.  & this whole bed of peat simply slid off & that's what - JZ:  Really?  EM:  caused that uh the 7th St Canal problem.  JZ:  Hmm!  I know it's - with the foundation conditions down there are extremely - EM:  (That?) must be (awful?).  JZ:  difficult to deal with.   EM:  & they said the safety factor on it was _ - JW:  I _ - EM:  _ _ - JW:  _ _thing's solid down there.  EM:  Yeah.  JZ:  Uno I, I helped build a _ _ _ _ (JW & ? laugh heartily) - JZ:  Don't get into that story, boy, air traffic control tower for the airport, that was fun to figure out the hy- uno (foundation?) _ -


DC:  Maybe u - we worked on a lotta pump stations down there!  EM:  ('cause?)  Purdy might've worked down there.  RW: _ _ - EM:  Purdy - was a - RW:  (Bert?) - EM:  Purdy _.  RW:  was usin' his new _!  JZ:  Oh yeah?  It looks good now.  DC:  Well, the - ?:  _ _ _ - DC:  pumps was alright - JZ:  _ (chuckling) yeah.  DC:  for the amt of water that was gonna be in there, but we didn't - we didn't figure that the levee would break - EM:  Said the safety factor - DC:  & uno -  EM:  was 1.3 & that - maybe that was (into?) the oil (factor?) - JZ:  Well, I guess the main - EM:  in the 60's -  JZ:  his, his main point is actually - it's pretty unknown about the money.  RW:  I figured that! 


10/17/05 LEV - Sec  6 of  15


JZ:  I DO think philosophically, I'm glad we have flood protection in VP - ?:  Sure.  JZ:  rather than NOT have it (chuckle).  RW:  Right.  JZ:  But we still need to pay our contractor.   EM:  We did get our - all our DUCKS together with the RR on the emergency road.  RW:  That's what I  _ _.  ?:  Yeah.  RW:  That's one thing I was gonna ask.  EM:  & uh we're _ - one of the requiremts is that it kept - be kept LOCKED um at all times.  DC:  Yeah.  EM:  Except when u go thru it. 


JW:  Who has the emerg road now?  RW:  Same place.  DC:  Same place!  They're gonna kinda straighten it out tho & make it - JKB:  Gomerdit? (!)  DC:  Yeah. (!)  JW:  Is it gravel, dirt?  JKB:  Go eat gravel.  RW:  It's rock.  JW:  Rock.  DC:  Who knows!  Maybe they'll do it like they did the one at 3rd St.  JW:  (Oh, they did?) - DC:   make it blacktop.  JW:  Blacktop one?  DC:  They've been up -  EM:  I doubt it!  JKB:  Just maybe. 


DC:  Well, uno, rather than have the gravel in the same situation that we had before - EM:  Oh yeah!  DC:  that they're - EM:  I can see - DC:  I'm sure they're gonna put ties in it.  We didn't have that before.  I don't think they're going to put another one in there & have the train come over & tear it out.  I mean - EM:  I don't know that they've committed to do anything about it.  They just said - JW:  Build it up!  EM:  Yeah, I think they said that uh, city, u've got the right to cross the track!  DC:  Well, Jim - RW:  Are they gonna fix that (there or then?)?  EM:  Wow, I don't know!  I, I haven't talked to 'em. 


RW:  Well, that's not gonna be very good on the - DC:  JM talked to the - RW:  AXLES!   DC:  trackmaster or whoever the - RW:  If our truck - the gate - DC:  guy up here is -  RW:  sure ain't gonna be good on police cars!  DC:  & he said that they're gonna - JW:  A flood only gets - DC:  they're gonna build _- RW:  (up on?) THE TRACKS!   


DC:  _City is not - JKB:  Yeah!  DC:  gonna build it - DS?:  _ (no less than?) - DC: they're gonna - DS?: (30?), huh?   DC:  build the crossing - RW:  No, I want -  JW: _ - RW:  _ now.  DC:  & they built the crossing at 3rd St - EM:  That's (a dandy one or at the end of one?)?  DC:  Yeah & uh then we went over & put blacktop on it.  JW:  (Gee or Gene?) - DC:  so I don't know how that's - EM?:  But u gotta - JKB?:  (chuckling)  (U got 'em broke in then?)  DC:  whether we'll still work at - JW:  He knew it in 50 - DC:  something like that or not.   JW:  it wasn't gonna clear! 


DS:  The RR isn't gonna let - JKB:  That's bullsh_t.  DS:  anybody else build anything;  I can tell u that -  JW:  We need some more of those - DS:  on their tracks.  JW:  vounteers to donate - DC:  I don't think so.  JW:  property to us.  DC:  I think that - DS:  We had that problem - DC:  they're gonna build it.  I mean - DS:  with the water main around - JZ:  Well, it's - DS:  Reichhold - JZ:  Yeah they did - JW:  Jim was - DS:  if u remember.  JW:  in the outfit.  JZ:  only did get sound judgmt on their part (chuckle)


DC:  Because I think the fellow over at uh - JW:  Didn't we take some waters from (cotton?) - DC:  the old cotton plant - JW: _ _ _ (laughs) - DC:  He's gonna use that for like a - JW:  Uh-huh - DC:  roadway - JW:  that's how (we or he?) found _ - DC:  the 3rd St up to - JW:  that property - DC:  his plant - JW:  (for what he's payin'?) - DC:  & that's why they wanted to do that & so - (JW laughing) - & we gotta salt pile back there.  But JM - JKB:  _ _ _ - DC:  told me - JKB:  _ _  - DC:  that the RR is, is gonna build it -


EM: _ _ _ -  DC:  & I asked him today - EM: _ _ _ - DC:  & he said he's gonna check with Randy (McLeary?) about - ?: _ _ _ _ - DC:  what - when they're gonna start on it - EM:  _ _?!   DC:  & everything.  JZ:  I made it as a good thing.   DC:  So probably by the - JW:  Let's go in there & - DC:  probably - JW:  (make up?) the difference.  ?:  Uno (exective or exactly the?) time - DC:  when their - EM?:  _ _ _ - DC:  whole project is done we'll - EM?:   It's very convenient.  


DC:   well, I guess that's cost - JKB: _ _ _ _ - DC:  the city cost-share for the project - JKB:  I think that that's gonna make him _ - DC:  was covered - ?: _  - JZ:  I have covered everything _ - DC:  Fed sponsor - JZ:  & seed ops.  DC:  funding for 06 - JW:  $2 a day to tamp out - DC:  Uhhh - JW:  & the (side or sod?) haul - DC:  _ Do u - ?:  But I heard _  - DC:  wanna talk about 4B?  U got something?


10/17/05 LEV - Sec  7 of  15


RW:  Well, Eric just (has?) (the or to?) answer to one of the ques's but uno we - ?: _  - ?: _ _ - RW:  do need to proceed with the RR.  I mean we can't cross those tracks without a crossing there!  Bust the axles on the fire trucks.  DC:  Oh yeah, well.  RW:  The other issue, u just said they wanted that gate in to be there.  What about gates on the uh - well I heard - well, I was talkin' to Lt Melies - I'll tell u where I heard it from - they're NOT puttin' gates on both sides of that levee - tell me they're not! 


EM:  _ - DC:  Where?  EM:  _ think so!  I, I think it's just - DC:  NO!  EM: _ - RW:  Whatever - EM:  _ lake is.  RW:  side in this side.  DC:  No, no!  No!   RW&/orEM: _ _ - DC:  U'll have one at the crossing like u had before.  The gate that's up there right now will be the gate that u go thru that's there.  Then there'll be a gate on the other side at the Old Mer Sta Rd when u come off of the levee up there. 


RW:  Do we need the - JZ:  Only on one side.  RW:  gate up there?  DC:  Oh sure!  How u gonna keep people outta River Dr?  & off the levee?  EM:  Well, u can block that off, can't u?  DC:  What's that?  EM:  Just simply block off River Dr.  RW:  Yeah, it's (good or gettin' -?) bein' locked off apparently is what Dave told me down there on this side of the park.  DC:  Right, it'll be blocked off - EM:  Where the access road is to the ramp?  DC:  To the ramp - RW?:  _ - DC:  that'll be blocked off just above the - where the driveway is to the uh, uh boat ramp, the west end of it.  Then there'll also be a blockade at the levee road comin' over the levee off of - over here at the RR tracks, at BN, so nobody can get up on there & get up on there & go down River Dr.


EM:  & then one at Arnold's, Arnold's Dr too.  DC:  Well, there'll be a gate on Arnold's, at Arnold's Dr.  There'll be a gate there where u can't get up on it & there'll also be 2 gates down at the end of Pharoah, goin' up to the levee & one at the other entrance to there to keep people OUT of the uh Sportsplex.  River Dr will be opened up as soon as the contractor turns uh the River Dr over to us.  They'll get it cleared off & see what kind of repair we have to make on it & then we'll open River Dr all the way to the boat ramp.  U'll only be able to go to the boat ramp.  U won't be able to go anywhere else. 


10/17/05 LEV - Sec  8 of  15


Uh the - a couple things that what we'll do with this, we're gonna have this final inspection on 10/27, but there's some things that uh I wanna bring up here that's going to have to be uh pretty soon decided on what we're gonna do with the discharge outta Reichhold at 3rd St. 


Uh we ran a test.  We tested all the gates last - I guess Tuesday.  Um Janice Hitchcock, the mechanical eng from the COE, was out & we tested the gates.  Uh some of the gates didn't work.  Uh the gates at 3rd & 5th St worked fine.  Uh one of the gate that discharge the uh - at Beckett's Memorial Dr, the 54", uh didn't work.  I some - they're about to fix it. 


The uh gate at uh 141 uh did not work.  It - we pulled the - when we started op'g it, it pulled the uh mounting brackets out of the operator in the top of the gate, gatewell.  So uh those things have to be repaired.  Supposedly this wk we're gonna have the gate manufacturer on-site to go over & see what was wrong with the 2 gates.  BUT that doesn't mean that we have a chance for flood because we can, we can close the gate.  We can close the gate at 141 - at uh Beckett's Memorial, the 54";  we just can't get it all the way open.  It won't, it'll only come open about half way & then it binds & it'll have to be adjusted some way or another. 


10/17/05 LEV - Sec  9 of  15


Umm but - JW?:  (Here?) comes the water!  ?: (gate holes?) -  DC:  the discharge at Reichhold  has GOT to be looked at before too long.  Something's gonna have to be made.   We're either gonna have to sit down with 'em & talk to them & see what we're gonna do because at the 3rd St, the discharge, the uh gates will be closed there at 405;  that's 12' & it's about 4' below the flood stage in VP;  actually (to or the?) 16'.  So we'll have to close that at 405 & that means that we're going to have a tremendous amt of water goin' thru it.  We were down there last wk checking it & there is - whew! - there is some terrible amt of water goin' thru that baby!


JW:  & they' an't stop or they won't stop.  EM:  They can!  DC:  Well - EM:  Sure they can!  JW:  CAN'T stop it.  DC:  We'll have to change - EM:  They'd have to cease manufacturing.  JW:  Right.  EM:  'cause it's cooling water as I understand it.  DC:  Well, they call it - & - EMorJW?: _ _ - DC:  according to a letter from what we got from EPA & everything, they call this water that comes out of the uh (he pulls out & refers to a doc) - Reichhold - lemme see if I can get it right here - They call it some kind of - JW:  _ can't recycle their own water?  EM:  They do!  DC:  They call it - to treat the production wells at Reichhold & the formity U.S. Down {sic} , but that doesn't work.  Wells at the production wells at Reichhold are the ones that run & also the outfit, the unit that runs from Wainwright over here, runs into this.  I don't know how much water they've put out, but -


EM:  Now are we talkin' about Reichhold or Wainwright?  DC:  BOTH of 'em.  BOTH of 'em go into that storm sewer tho Wainwright goes into the same place that the - JW:  Reichhold does.  DC:  Reichhold does.  EM:  I THINK what Reichhold says is they recycle a lotta their water but evidently there's some that they DON'T because they got too much or something.


DC:  Well, whatever it is, u can't go down there.  We couldn't have anybody go down there because the fumes are so bad.  JW:  (gasp) !!  DC:  & the water is goin' thru it - JW?:  (sarcastic chuckling)  That's just cooling water _ - DC:  When u have - JW: _ _ - DC:  the position is, is with the EPA, they said they can run it into the river & that whatever it is, but the only fact of the matter is there's going to have to be something done between the COE & it, but we're gonna have to see if that water goin' thru there with all that CRAP that's in it, whatever it is, is going to deteriorate the gate structure!  I mean I don't know what it does to the metal. 


I mean we're - JW:  I can't believe - DC:  gonna have to - JW:  they can dump - DC:  have some kind of a test.  JW:  anything BUT water.  DC:  We may - DS:  I (heard?) _ - DC:  we may - DS:  (the same?) - DC:  some day - EM?:  _ _ - DC:  go down - ?:  _ in the water - DC:  there & wanna close the gate & the gate ain't EVEN there!   JW:  Say it's all u seen - DC:  It may - JW:  is clear water?  DC:  be - it may be ate up.  ?: _ _ _ - DC:  I mean I don't know what they're puttin' thru it.  I mean they say that it's -


EM:  Well, le, lemme ask u this.  Would this solve some of our problems & obviously not - 'cause we've had that water tested - JW:  (Boy, u come outta there?) - EM:  & I thought it was ok.  JZ?:  Pardon?  RW:  Well, if they're dumpin' - JW:  _ come outta there - RW:  it in the river - JKB?:  _ _ - RW:  DNR's NOT gonna let 'em dump somethin' here _ - DS:  Go back on - EM:  But - RW:  that's _ -  DS:  Marshall behind that - EM:  but as far as our OTHER problem - DS:  back on Marshall - EM:  when we close our gates - DS:  behind that plant - EM:  at 408 - DS:  _ comes out _ - RW?:  405.  EM:  405 - DS:  _ I haven't seen anything there _ - EM:  the city should - DS: _ _ cooling water - EM:  maybe have an ord in place that - DS:  & every time she _ - EM:  says that uh - DS: _ _ - DC:  Reichhold has to - DS:  _ but that's been 7 yrs ago - DC:  shut their wells down.  DS:  but I don't know what goes outta there now!  


EM:  Same thing with all - JW?:  talkin' about (train?) grants?   EM:  these op'g units 'cause - DS:  Oh, no, this goes out - EM:  we've got 3 op'g units now.  DC:  Right.  DS:  right behind - DC:  Now the EPA is gonna put another one - DS:  by that tank - JW:  Yeah?  DC:  at 5th St.  DS:  Did u notice - EM:  well, & that - & I'm - DS:  that fire thing - EM:  I'm adding that in.   DC:  Right.  DS:  it comes out right there - EM:  It might be the 3rd.  DC:  So - DS:  I GUESS it comes out - DC:  I mean -


EM:  We need to coordinate THAT - DS: _ see in there - EM:  with EPA to make sure - DS: _ they come down & then - DC:  Right.  EM:  that they're gonna have - DS:  _ _ - EM:  their people - DS:  in the river.  EM:  comply - DC:  Because they'll have to - whatever they'll have to do - JW:  it's got arms on top the ground for - DC:  is cut that - shut their op down - DS:  Well, it's, it's still hot but it's - DC:  at Wainwright, shut this down & - DS:  a storm drain _ - DC:  I mean - JW:  Right.  DC:  somewhere along the line - DS: _ see it - DC:  we're gonna have to get these people in here to talk about uh this shuttin' the pumps down & all this at a certain elevation when we close it down because we'll be filling the uh det ponds up with the water at - from Reichhold.


RW:  Well, I don't think u're gonna have THAT big of a problem.  What do they want, a flood or stop production for a couple days?  DC:  Well, they know they - uno - & NOW we've got a new one.  U had this in here;  I got a fact sheet from uh the EPA on this one that's gonna be put down at the VP uh at the old Technology unit down there.  They've got a uh - it's been downgraded from what they were gonna do & now they're gonna dump the water into a storm sewer that'll go into the 5th St - I guess will go into 5th St.  I don't really know where that storm - it was an inactive sewer & was unknown to local ofc'ls & residences that was - I don't know - I don't get that because we were down there & we knew where the line went & now they're gonna use the storm water sewer for the injection of treated water into the storm sewer.  ?: _ _ - DC:  So it's either goin' to - JW:  Oh, it's hot?  DC:  it'll go somewhere in the storm sewer to either uh - JW:  It's gonna go to school.  DC:  Grand Glaize - JKB?:  Ray Templeton - DC:  or Simpson or into the 5th St.  I have no idea where that - JW?: _ _ - DC:  if it's unknown & no one I seen down there was want {sic} into 5th St - JW: _ _ _ - DC:  but I don't really know. 


The one - JKB?:  _ _ _ - DC:  from the old cotton plant is, is completely shut down.  It does not - JW: _ _ _ - DC:  it is not in op so no water is comin' outta that - JW: _ _ _ - DC:  storm sewer.  All that water from uh the cotton plant goes directly to MSD.  JKB?:  (Then he can't take more out?).  JW:  Sounds good.  DC:  Uh MSD I guess will not take - JW: _ pumps _ - DC:  the water from Reichhold but I don't know.  Their, their permit was supposed to run out in Sept sometime & I really don't know but we need to get with those people.  JW:  I'm just so in that he - DC:  Uhh - JW:  can get this (& then send ol' or incindo?) co_.  (someone chuckles) 


10/17/05 LEV - Sec  10 of  15


DC:  until we get the uh emerg road finished - RW?:  _ _ - DC:  well, I guess we won't - JW: _ _ _ - DC:  really talk about the run-off at the Valley Material, but we tried to work with that man & he STILL - we did some - diggin' some dykes - put some dykes along the side & he was supposed - he ran - JKB?: _ _ _  - DC:  a ditch down to this place to the spot where it was supposed to go down along the levee & kind of lay this material before it got into the det pond, but whenever it rains he doesn't clean out the ditch, his ditch, & it overtopped the dyke & ran into the det pond.  He doesn't clean I out I mean &, & he said he was gonna get rid of material & it just keeps pilin' up, pilin' up - RW?: _ _ - DC:  & he's takin' material & dumpin' it in his uh pkg & wherever he's got his other bizs up there. 


Uh do u know - have any idea what, what he does up there with - he's got so many bizs goin' on in there.  Do they have permits to have all these bizs inside that thing or - EM:  I, I think what he does is store um raw - I mean for instance there's forms there I know for concrete people & then he's got - JW:  There's a big salt bin in there, it looks like - DC:  He's got a SALT bin & he's got some kind of a guy that's got a container op - EM:  Yeah, I've seen that.  DC:  & he's got salt;  he's got a salt bin up there & got big snow plows & then one area, it's - he's fillin' it up with uh brush!  He must have a tree trimmer in there.  They're doin' dumpin' tree trim stuff in there & got ALL kinds of junk in there.  I mean uno (sigh) -


EM:  I have no clue if he has permits or not _ I find out DC:  (Damler or Down there?) maybe bring it up - JW:  Just seen  John (Paul moved in?).  DC:  at the uh ald mtg tonight & SEE because uh we need to uh - I don't know.  EM:  I, I - instead of bringin' it to the BOA, I'd just go straight to JB & ask him if he's got permits &, & take it that way.  JKB?: _ _ - DC:  I might talk to JB & see what he's got u there on that.  Uh - JW:  Helluva fence he made!


10/17/05 LEV - Sec  11 of  15


DC:  Can, can - do uno actually the amt of fill material we bought from Simpson?  EM:   It's 1M300K cy I think.  JKB?:  Is it?  DC:  Ok, if we haven't used all that material, does that still belong to us?  EM:  Uhh, it, it EXPIRES on a certain day.  Ummm let uno (what &?) -


JW:  How much u think we used, Dave?  ?:  (Six &?) - DC:  Well, I don't know.  I'm workin' the things that - JW:  I might start sellin' dirt quick!  DC:  Uh to uh - JWorRW:  Tom's (goin' around with?) - DC:   figure it out.  JWorRW:   City Code Book!  DC:  I don't know, really know. I don't really have a main total.  I'm doin' it month-by-month & I've got 2 months to go on it yet.  JW:  U don't think Simpson woulda jipped us.   DC:  Well, no, he, he's - I'm just sayin' is if we bought this material & we paid for it, uh does - what we don't use - if we bought a M & we only use 800K, we got 200K more dirt up there - do we get reimbursed from Simpson for this?  Or -


EM?:  _ !  EM:  It is - was a SCREWY DEAL!  The city bought - JW:  We paid for it twice.  EM  an ESMT - RWorJKB:  (3 times?).  EM:  in 1995 or 96 toooo  get in there & take up to 1M300K cy of soil & that was for a 5-yr basis.  So 96 - it would've expired - we were in 95, 96, so in the yr 2000.  & I think we're pretty close to runnin' out on 'em, weren't we?  Dec of - it's either 12/05 or 06 that it runs out.  But it's just a, a RIGHT to come on the premises & get this dirt in accordance with how he - where he tells us to get the dirt at -


JW:  Oh!  He don't even load it for us?  EM:  Oh No!!  We paid - DC:  We paid a loaded price & all he does is weigh it!  Then u get a sheet from them that they load it now - all, everything on it & they tell u uno how much we got. 


Now then we pay for this amt of dirt that he - or is it already paid for?   ?:  It's paid for it.  EM:  Well, we paid for the RIGHT to get on & get the dirt.  So I guess in MY est, we have the  RIGHT to get in there & GET the dirt, but we gotta PAY to get the dirt &, & it costs more - JW:  Somebody's gotta loadin' it.  EM:  Yeah, it costs MORE to pay to GET the dirt.  Me - it's, it's like $3/cy I thinnnnk just to DIG the dirt & put it on!  Ok? 


DC:  Ok.  & then the extra - then there's another charge to haul it?  EM:  Right!  & in, it c- it, it's - RW:  So your 200K sq yds, it's gonna STAY over there, David!  EM:  That's what I'm a thinkin'!  (RW laughs)  Uno - JW:  Unless u find somebody - EM:  Unless u - JW:  that wants to pay u for it.  EM:  got somebody that's REALLY well-heeled that can afford to move that stuff around 'cause it's expensive! 


DC:  Oh yeah, I know it is!  I mean I'm not - I'm just ques'g this - how we're - EM:   We paid APPROX - DC:  Is this another cost that is not figured into this until we know the amt of material?  EM:  Oh, no, no, it's all - all the money was up front - paid twice actually (RW & JW laugh) &, & we're not asking for DOUBLE "K" credit 'cause I - that'd throw us all outta whack.  I think we paid 1M - what'd we pay?  Was it like 1M1 -


JZ:  No, u's paid more but I thought u GOT more the 2nd time, so u _ - EM:  Walllll {sic}, I don't know, & then we - the 2nd time around we paid (6_ _ or 16_ _?) - DC:  Well - EM:  somethin'.  DC:  I know when we finished the Item 3B over here, we had to haul all that material - ?: _ -  EM:  Oh, I know what it is!  DC:  that we didn't take -


EM:  We, we paid - we paid X # of $'s but we - I don't even know if we took - JW:  (Yeah?) - EM:  a credit.  JW:  _ _ - EM:  Yeah, we took a - JW:  (Bd turned down?) _ - EM:  a credit - JW:   _  year(s?)  to do it (he chuckles).  EM:  for the appraised amt.  We're not asking for credit for - JW:  If u took 200K - EM:  the appraised amt twice.  JW:  u can always dump down there.  RWorJKB:  _ _ - EM:  'cause it'd throw our cost-sharing way off I think.  It was like - JW:  THAT'S a good one!


EM:  We - we paid 600 - JW:  It was a bribe.  EM:  but it appraised out at 1M8 - ?: __ - EM:  because of charity- JKB?:  We could use that in Arnold.  EM:  & benefits.  JZ?:  I don't doubt it.   EM?:  Which it's done.  DC:  But it was - ?: _ _ - DC:  a screwy deal because when we finished _ - EM:  VERY screwy deal!


DC:  we had to haul that material because we didn't TAKE the material because we had more good material on GG when we built that over here on 3uhB because we had to haul that & fill in the part of the uh det pond at GG with that dirt.  Then we had to haul it back OUT & put it on 4B.  So I mean we're just about done with the dirt but uno I, I really am - EM:  Yeah, I mean if, if we - if the city has a project or something like that & guess u can't get dirt for free, that's an option the city would wanna think about but uh (pause) -


JW:  Who would u stockpile 200K cy of dirt at?  EM:  Oh I don't know.   RW:  Port it to Iowa.  JW:  (laughing)  Fill it IN!  JKB:  Just know I know where u - JW:  It'd be level.  DC:  Well, I mean uno we, we have a hole down here in the - on the outside of the levee down here that - EM:  Well, my thought there is that we wanna profit on that. 


DC:  Right.  EM:  Yeah.  DC:  But we probably need - when we start dumpin' concrete & all that stuff in there, we have already done some but Ride- uh ESI have taken & then they paul {sic} dirt & put it in there to cover it up to make it uh - ?:  Right.  DC:  right.  So he did- uh like I'm sayin' if we have a right to that dirt, maybe when we start usin' this - fill this hole up there, that we can go over & get some of this 200K cy that we got left - EM:  Sure.  DC:  to start fillin' that area in & clear it off & make a, make a park area.  I mean -


JW:  Surely if we went OVER Simpson woulda cut us off.  I'm sure he's watchin' every ticket.  He could probably tell ya to the pound how much u - DC:  Oh, I'm - JW:  got us.  DC:  sure they - oh, they know how much we've hauled outta there.  There's no doubt.  They got a ticket. 


EM:  Uno, that, that,  that knob, once u get underneath the rubble, that knob may be sufficient for cover;  I don't know.  DC:  I, I really don't know.  I mean it - EM:  I think we had - DC: depends on when they dig into it - EM:  we had some ests of what the cubic yardage was there.  DC:  I got - JW:  What the hell is his - DC:  I've got a couple people that wanna dump stuff in there.  JW:  (mob or knob?) down there.  EM:  Oh, it's still there!  I just kind of figured we'd use the KNOB at the last & uh at first, u get money for people dumpin' there & then at the end, if it's clay in VOGUE, u use up the clay dirt. 


DC:  I've got a couple people that would like to put some material in there &, but - EM:  But do they wanna pay us?  DC:  that's the thing. 


10/17/05 LEV - Sec  12 of  15


JW:  I bet ol' Valley Materials has got plenty they wanna put in there.  DC:  Well, this stuff that he's got, guys, is, is not really fill material.  This is - he dumps - he comes in - he has an op that the has some kind of fiber that he puts in.  JW:  A fiber mesh.  DC:  A fiber mix & it doesn't - he can't run it thru his - what is his reclaiming thing because it blocks it up & then when the trucks come in, he's got no place to dump this concrete so he just dumps it on the ground - JW:  Dumps it in his yard.  DC:  & the water runs out of it & then it eventually goes down & he dams it up & then when we have a heavy rain, he goes down & opens it up & the water runs down to it because he says that it's lower back there than the street & all the water - well, it's uno - it's, it's just whatever it's gonna be. 


RW:  If the city doesn't do something to him - DC:  Huh?  RW:  that's just gonna be a continuous battle!  DC:  Well, I mean it is.  I mean it's - RW:  We talked about this several months ago & apparently he's STILL doin' it!  DC:  & what we're gonna have to do - RW:  Why can't the city tell him to keep his crap on his own prop?!  EM:  We have!  DC:  Somewhere between - JW:  They did send a cop -


DC:  We're gonna have to have when we have - Valley Material, we're gonna have to have EVERYBODY from Valley - from the RR track all the way down to Pyramid, have a mtg with these people & tell 'em uno, it's ended that you're gonna be able to push stuff over just back of your place & keep backin' it off, keep dumpin' it out.  We're either gonna have to put up some kind of barricade, put a line up, a fence or something & say that's it! 


RW:  Well, u ain't gonna keep the liquid off of there with a - DC:  Well, the liquid is not where the problem is - is they dump everything else.  I mean if they've got a bad piece of equipmt, they run it back there;  they put some fill in & then they piered a piece of equipmt back there & pretty soon they dump concrete, they dump rock, they do this & they keep enlargin' their pkg lot.  I mean I don't know how much prop Simpson's & Rideout & Kirchner & all of them acquired off of the Sports Complex prop that was - belonged to the city of VP because I don't think anybody knew where the prop lines were & they may have surveyed 'em & everything else.   & I think uno it was - because they kept dumpin' it.  I...(exchange tapes)...DC:  things (haven't been or having to be?) changed - RW:  One of the things u could change if they had a problem down there with the - in the retention pond - DC:  Ah, it's -


10/17/05 LEV - Sec  13 of  15


now the other ques I have here, I guess it's uh maybe u could find out, Jim, about this - the flood-wary {sic} area between the levee & the river, does that need to be cleared in any way because of the floodway, from the floodplain to the floodway?  I understood & I brought this ques up & they said, yes, that it has to be cleared to a certain way that it does not hold water or anything else to a certain amt, like 1% or whatever.  Uh -


EM:  Pat Conroy had always told us that.  DC:  At - that had it to be cleared!  It had to have some - JZ:  No.  EM:  That was before bottomwood hardwoods & -


JZ:  We're gonna talk about floodway fairly soon but - JW:  Too many trees down there - JZ:  I can put a proposal _ -  JW:  that u got - EM:  Yeah.  JW:  _ (people'll?) - JZ:  submittal to FEMA, but - JW:  push them trees down.  JZ:  I don't - EM:  I dont think Dennis - RW:  They won't allow 'em to push - JZ:  I don't think he - RW:  'em all down.  JW:  I wouldn't - EMorJZ:  'course if he keeps that - JW:  think so.  JZ:  his hydraulic model - RW?: _ - JZ:  but he assumed - JW:  Yeah - JZ:  is cleared!  


JW:  Why would u want that trees _ -  JZ:  In fact there's one area that we - JW:  I wouldn't think u'd want ANY trees _ - JZ:  between the uh borrow area - JW:  big FIG ones - DC:  The borrow area & (that levee?) - JZ:  AND River Rd - RW:  BURN it (all or out?).  


JW: _ _ - JZ&JW:  (U could have?) - JZ:  (just?) selective clearing - JW: _ (John?) come down here & clean it _ - JZ:  because that will work ok hydraulically.  RW:  Burn it all.   JZ:  Selective clearing.  JKB:  Might be the best way.  DC:  Right, I mean - JZ:  I mean a savannah, with trees _ -


EM:  So I think the answer is probably NO!  JZ:  The answer is if it doesn't HAVE to be cleared but we oughta talk to Dennis about what his assumptions were.  JW:  What if it - what if it RAINED -  JZ:  I think it can be - JW:  (where u purposely?) _ _ -  JZ:  uno used as a park area.  JW: _ _  - JZ:  Maybe that's what - JW: _ - 


DC:  That's what I'm sayin', but does - do we - JW:  I think once we - DC:  HAVE to because - JW:  _ the city to go ahead - DC:  we maybe have to - JW: _ -  DC: coordinate this if it does between - RW?: _ - DC:  StL Cnty or whatever THEY own - ?: _ _ - DC:  & this Greenway people - ?: _ - DC:  that are puttin' the trail in - ?: _ _ - DC:  how much - ?: _ _ - DC:  of this are we - DS: _ _ - DC:  gonna - is it gonna - DS:  _ something _ - DC:  be cleared or - DS: _ _ - DC:  whatever it is that uno - ?: _ _ - JW:  Oh, yeah, it's - I think _- JKB:  Yeah, they (both did or bought bid?)!   DC:  Uno this - JW:  Think it's already _ _ - DC:  could be something that uno we have to - uno we'll have to get into. 


EM:  Wednesday at 10 o'clock!  But u won't be here!  DC:  I won't, no, I have, I got a - I don't think I'll be home at 10.  Where u gonna be at, here?  EM:  Here.  DC:  I gotta take my grandson -


10/17/05 LEV - Sec  14 of  15


JW:  Eric, When's the uh Greenway Trail Systems gonna go thru there & put their deal in down there?  EM:  U're talkin' to the WRONG guy!  David Fisher does NOT return my calls.  I've called him 5 times!  & he won't return my calls.  He says it is a greenway.  JW:  They'll have to start coop'g with the city, won't he?  EM:  He's - JW:  I mean 'cause -   RW:  Well, he don't return calls either. (RW/EM teasingly)  EM:  I DO return calls;  it took me 3 days is all.  RW:  He's talkin' about another guy! 


JW:  But I mean wouldn't they be doin' a lot of clearing down there theirself if they decide or - EM:  They won't - JW:  is it goin' on top the levee?  EM:   I don't know how - I, I think they won't start until all the property's there & we've got 2 houses that they're not gonna pay for;  yet those 2 houses are in StL Cnty's MASTER PLAN! for Simpson Park &, & the cnty's not gonna pay for it.  & instead, they want the city to pay for it & then turn around & give it to the cnty!  (JW chuckles)  JKB?:  I think they're on their own then.   EM:  & I thought - ?: _ _  - EM:  I thought that was pretty rotten! 


RW: (chuckling)  Well, the city would do the same thing to the cnty!  EM:  Well, of course - RW:  So let's just - EM:  in a heartbeat but uh - RW:  talk about - EM:  In a heartbeat, (there till?)!  RW:  BARGAINING! 


JKB:  Must be, if the cnty wanted to go 1st, let THEM - EM:  Yeah - JKB: _ _ - EM:  I don't - DC?:  _ _ - EM:  I don't - I don't - so I don't think there's any plans to put in trails there until they've got the property!  RW:  Aw, RAMP IT over the houses!   Keep ON movin'!


JW:  Which 2 is it down there?    Guy at the end?  EM:  Yeah.  JW:  Guys at the end down there?  EM:  The guy at the end & then the other one was uh - DC:  Crazy Eddie.  JW:  He comes out shootin'!  JKB:  Ed?  EM:  Yeah.  JKB:  Crazy Eddie!  EM:  Yeah, he don't want a trail goin' in front of his house or even close.   JW:  Oh me & Scott Melies was down there.  He pulled a gun on us;  only thing was Scott was quicker (he laughs).  EM:  Alright.  I'd like to have seen that!   DC:  Crazy Eddie is somethin' else.  JW: (still laughing) Said, oh I didn't know u was a cop.  EM:  Eddie, Eddie with the guinea hens!  (DC chuckles) 


10/17/05 LEV - Sec  15 of  15


JW:  Hey, Russ is comin' before the Bd tonight.  EM:  Alright!  JW:  He wants a permit for 2 chickens.  EM:  Good for him.  JW:  He's got chickens outside.  DS:  & the good part - DC:  Who's this?   DS:  of that is - JW:  RC.  DS:  _ has to issue the permit!  DC:  Chickens?!  JW:  He's got chickens out in his yard.  EM:  He's got fresh eggs.  JW:  I think he's comin' - DS: _ issue those permits.  JW:  before the Bd for a permit.  RH:  Who's this?   DS:  _ _ anything!  JW:  RC.  His kids' got chickens!  EM:  Eddie, Eddie got a permit for guinea hens!  I think he did.  JW:  Yeah he did!  We're goin' back & shoo_ - DC:  Yeah he got one!  Yeah they didn't take him - they didn't tell him _ -


DS: (laughing) Some guy was complainin' about the rooster - DC:  He's got roosters - JKB:  _ _ - RW: _ - DC:  he's got chickens - JKB:  _ down there - DC:  he's got - JKB:  that guy had 'em & they made him get RID of 'em!  JW:  Chickens?  EM:  I know how to get rid of 'em;  cook 'em up.  RW:  Well, can u have roosters?  DS:  That's what the complaint is - JW:  Chicken & dumplin's - DS:  The roosters crowin' - JW:  over at RC's house!  DS: early in the morning. EM:  Yes, it is - (JW laughs) whatever _ - 


DC:  I had chickens one time.  I went down there & bought - my boys wanted chickens - DS:  _ _ - DC:  & I bought down there - ?: _ - EM: _ _ - JW: _ _ - ?: _ _  - EM: _ I hope. RW:  Uno - ?: _ - JW?:  No, I'm not.  DS:  Yeah.  JW:  Chickens!  DC:  I bought a bunch of (banny?) chickens from up there at Doddie's at the thing & took 'em home;  had a nice pen for 'em & put 'em in there & - JW:  Well, that guy had a little different - DC:  & the 1st night - JW: situation.  He was down there on the  - DC:  I had 'em all - boy, they're real pretty - JW: river BY HIMSELF - DC:  & uno where they went?  Right straight up the trees.  JW:  _ (miles from me?).  DS:  Did u have a permit for Ol' Joe or whatever that pony's name was when u - DC:  No, I came down here & wanted to get a permit.  They said u don't need one, Dave.  JW:  I think u oughta _ him a chicken.  DC:  Just fence it - just put a fence around it & I had a pony.  DS:  Bd might do it but they just had a gal on the news - JW:  I don't know if I could (see?) that one happen.  DS: the other night that's got chickens & goats in Webster Groves, but no roosters....(They begin disbursing - end 10/17/05 LEV "mtg".)