MOPR'S   4/17/06   VP  LEVEE   MTG  MINS


Notes:   By 5pm standard mtg time, all members listed below as present were seated & chatting.  The mtg finally started at 5:10 & lasted till 6pm.  JKB, DS & JW often talked amongst themselves as usual during the mtg, making it difficult for DLC in their midst & for me to focus on the actual speakers;  & especially difficult & time-consuming to transcribe for posting. 


Present:   JKB,  DS,  BW,  EM,  CLM,  DC,  JZ,  TW (left at about 5:35),  Mayor JW,  DLC.  (Members are usually if not always listed clockwise from the table's west end.) 


Audience:   Lt Melies who left at about 5:50. 


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  1 of  16


DC: ...(roll call, see above)  JW:  _ _ - Ok.  JW:  Lee, _ - DC:  Let's stand for the Pledge of Allegiance here.  JW:  _ (would've been right about now?) - CLM:  Yeah - JKB?:  (as I had envisioned?)  (JW chuckles)  (Pledge)  JW:  I had all mine (figured?) so I had (him pay the fine too?).  I told him, I said, man, u have  _ _ _ _ _ what do u (think?)?   ?: _ _ - DS:  I (would think I wouldn't?) talk to - DC:  Does anybody here have any additions or deletions - DS?:  Oh well!  DC:  to the agenda? 


Ok, let's get into Item 6, uh update on the VP Levee.  Jim, Do u have any?  JZ:  Yeah, I got a few items.  1st of all, ESI is installing the, a drop inlet.  Uh it's in accordance with the mod to their contract in the vicinity of the Simpson prop to take care of the drainage in that area.  ?:  Um-huh.  JZ:  So it's on-going. 


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  2 of  16


Um 2nd item is DC asked me to check into uh the use of sandbags to uh reduce the flows at the closure structures during a flood & so I've sent an email to Jake Scanlon & the team & got responses from Jake & Duane Atchley.  Pat Conroy & I just passed those along to Dave prior to the mtg here.  But basically, they're saying uno it may not leak, uno so never gonna leak enough to be a real serious problem & uh it may not leak enough that u need to do sandbagging but uh there's some ideas in there on how it should be done on the riverside & so forth - DC:  Right.  JZ:  So that's just info passed on too to Dave. 


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  3 of  16


Um I have a list of several little, small jobs that we have remaining to do last time we met & one of 'em is the purchase order for um repairs of the sills that run along the closure structures at Vance Rd & StL Ave.  & um well, Duane Atchley of our ofc has been doing a lot of coord'n with StLCnty & I sent Eric an email on this & I think Dave has coord'd with uh Duane on this.  DC: Right. 


JZ:  But basically uno they want - the cnty has to give a permit to do this work 'cause they own the roads & they want uh - we, we want a 48-hr period so this epoxy will set up under the metal plate & - CLM:  _ _ - JZ:  so the cnty is saying at Vance Rd, we have to do it 1/2 at a time uno & - JW:  I figured they'd be screamin' about that.  JZ:  for a 48-hr period & uh StL Ave, we can do it - the entire - enclose the entire uh road there for 48 hrs & we'll just have to - JW:  _ shocked that they - JZ:  Yeah - JW:  agreed to that!  JZ:  Yeah, & so that's, that's what THEY're saying.  & then we have to have concurrence from the city in our plans.  So the next step for us is to finalize our, our uh P&S so-to-speak, provide them to the city ahead of time & uh get your concurrence. 


& then when there's a uh traffic plan dev'd which is dev'd as part of the contract, then u have to approve that - uno they want your approval of that traffic plan as well.  They want u uno fully involved.  CLM:  So they don't get sued.  ?: _- ?: _-


TW:  Now as, as part of that, the uh, the city has filed for a grant to uh bring Hanna Rd out of the floodplain but we don't - we won't know until July whether or not we're gonna get the grant or not.  & then if we're successful, it'll be a similar program to what we're using - Forest Ave - to bring some Forest Ave out of the floodplain & to improve Forest Ave sewer system & to take some water & make sure it gets into uh the creek & uh -


But anyway, the Hanna Rd - JZ:  Uh-huh.  TW:  is - uno if the levee is closed, Hanna Rd, if it's flooded uno, then there's only one way out for those people.  DC:  On Sulphur Springs, but they do have a, a way to get out - JW:  They would have a route.  DC:  They DO have a, a route to get out & go around Sulphur Springs.  TW: Right, but Hanna Rd, if it's brought out of the floodplain, provides another access - DC:  Right.  TW:  to Big Bend & uh the cnty sponsored that;  well, not monetarily but they did sign a letter saying that they uh think it's a good project.


CLM:  Who's the granting agency?  TW:  Uh, it's, it's thru East-West Gateway Coord'g Council (EWGCC) which is part of the Safety Program.  CLM:  Federal, federal funds?  TW:  Yes.  BW:  Is this just raising the road bed basically?  TW:  No, it's, it's uh, uh replacing the bridge.  The bridge is probably 4 to 5 ft uh below where it should be.  Uh so I just - JZ:  & this - TW:  wanted to - JZ:  this particular job uno - TW:  let this group know that - JZ:  we're - uno it's good to know & we're - our timing is that we - of course we want to uh get our P&S done within the next wk or so & give them to the city & just to get this little job on - under contract & taken care of uno.  & there's several little things that we wanna do to try to finish up to turn the project over to the sponsor for O&M (Operations & Maintenance), ok.  Um -


DC:  Also on that, there'll be probably the Vance Rd job probably will not be done until after school is out - until summer vacation.  We talked about that & Duane is gonna try to set that up where we don't have to worry about school buses to uh be goin' in & out of there because they just have to - JZ?:  time (& deadline?).  DC:  So we talked about that & he said that he'd try to work on the StL Ave at 1st & then get the Hanna - the Vance Rd project after school is out which will be 5/22.  & I doubt if either one of these things will probably be started probably before 5/22;  maybe they will be, but he'll hold off on the one.  JZ:  _ I wouldn't say no because it takes a while to (look at?) _ - DC:  Right, I would - JZ: _ _ process.  DC:  think probably it'll be maybe 6/1 or the middle of June before we get this project (pulled?) up underway, so. 


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  4 of  16


JZ:  Um move, movin' on to another item, we, we got this contract called Miscellaneous Items that, that we're working on to uh solve a few problems before uno somebody can turn the project over to the sponsor again.  & one of, one of the problems was um the storm drain over at Leonard Park & we need a manhole there - had, had some leaks around the seals.  Pat Conroy coord'd quite a bit with MSD & MSD ended up - I think some people in the city are aware - MSD ended-up takin' on the job of makin' that repair!  DC:  It's already finished.  JZ:  & they've already done it so - JW:  Are they sick?  JZ:  That was uh very helpful. (they chuckle)  BW:  _ _ -


DC:  The only thing is, the city will be responsible for on that project is filling in the uh, uh the washed-out areas & uh leveling it out & putting the grass seed on it.  They went in & epoxied it, the whole thing.  Last report I got, they epoxied it last wk.  We talked to 'em probably early in the wk & that was one of their rcmds that they would rather do that than have to dig it up & everything.  They put this epoxy in & (sealed up?).   I guess they figured out it was gonna be their sewer;  gonna be their storm line.


EM:  Ty-typically I think we, we uh go ahead &, & grant that by esmt to MSD - DC:  Well, yeah I mean - EM:  if we do the project &, & it IS THEIRS;  but yeah, gettin' 'em to do anything about it is uh (pause) - DC:  there was some, uh some discussion that somewhere along the line, I guess uh as-built plans or what - how this ever worked with Bates - I think was the fellow that did this  (EM nods yes)  - & whether they didn't have an inspector on the job or whatever it was & I guess Conropath {sic} (does he mean Pat Conroy)  & uh Ken Barnett & the fellow from uh MSD got it lined out & got the drawings & they - I guess they figured out well, they might as well do it.


JZ:  I don't know if the permit is closed out.  I think there was an - from what I understand, there was an MSD inspector on-site.  But there's certain requiremts for the permit - uno survey info & sealed by a surveyor - that still hasn't been done that we're gonna go back & get some surveys done to  - TW:  Yeah, they require - JZ:  (wrap up?) the permit - TW:  as-built mylars - JZ:  Yeah.  TW:  to be turned in to 'em.  JZ:  Yeah, so that's, that's still being worked. 


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  5 of  16


Um another item we talked about last month & we'll talk about again - we'll probably keep talkin' about it - is bottomland hardwoods mitigation.  I still don't have a bottomland hardwoods mit plan from my biologist but it's supposed to be coming to me this wk;  uno so I'll know what the plan is or what his plan is.  Then we'll talk about it within the COE & then we'll talk to u about it, uno just discuss what, what they've come up with as far as add'l mit for bottomland hardwoods uh damaged by the - during the const of the project.


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  6 of  16


Um another item that we are starting to work on is, is the final as-built drawings & O&M manual for the entire project & I think our, our people are uh making more progress on the as-built drawings.  The as-built - u take what was const'd by the contractor - sometimes during const there's a little difference between what they start out with vs what they end up with in different areas.  So uno u have what's called an as-built drawing that's marked-up by the contractor, & then we take those drawings & we put them into our CAD {sic} system & then we have a, a nice, clean set of as-built drawings.  That's one of the things we provide the sponsor for all projects. 


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  7 of  16


& then O&M manual speaks for itself, but that's, that's gonna be a complicated uh - kind of a, kind of a, a tough job to put together a complete O&M manual for all aspects of the project;  all the hydraulics, all the det areas, & closing the gates, opening the gates.  It's op, maint, repair, replacemt, rehabilitation - uno looking all the way into the future.  All those are covered by the O&M manual, including the env'l mit areas & everything assoc'd with the project - the RR closure struture, how u deal with the RR's, what's, what, what it says in the RR agreemt.  All those things - CLM:  It's a bible really - JZ:  It's what the city's left with - CLM: (according?) _ _ - JZ:  to uh, uno along with the project, to -


TW:  Jim, Can I get a digital copy of the as-builts when u guys - JZ:  Sure!  TW:  _ _ - JZ:  When we get done, we'll have 2 - TW:  Cause I don't need the op manual, but - JZ:  No, but I'm - TW:  that's _ _ - JZ:  tell everybody, when we get done, we'll have two 3-ring binders:  one with the op & maint, repair, replacemt manual & one with the as-built drawings;  & then there'll be a CD that has EVERYthing on it that everybody will get.  Ok, so -


CLM:  Who in the dist - who's actually puttin' together the O&M manual?  JZ:  Um probably I'm the one who's most responsible for it but - CLM:  Cause other - everybody has input to it.  JZ:  but uh then there's uh Linda Bolten who's a head of our specs sec who's really good at putting reports together.  CLM:  Oh, ok, yeah, _ - JZ:  & really good with uh scanning docs & she's gonna be assembling all the stuff.  There's a lot of photographs in there - CLM:  Oh yeah.  JZ:  & just uno all, all kinds of things - CLM:  _ very - JZ:  that help u - CLM:  very detailed (application?).  JZ:  to understand how to operate the project.  The pump sta - if u had a pump sta, some of the manuals are really thick & very, very complicated.  But anyway, we're being - that's, that's being worked.


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  8 of  16


& that, that brings me to the next, my last bullet of things to talk about here is the FEMA zoning change.  Mayor, I'm sure u're aware of the change to uh - behind the levee - I think it's an A99 designation & uh - BW:  That'll be the new designation?  JZ:  Well, that is the designation that's in-place as of a letter last wk I guess it was.  EM:  3/31.  JZ:  3/31, uh & it - I mean Eric I'm sure will probably wanna talk about that.  But to go from that designation to what's a Zone X - which is uno kind of the ultimate designation which says the area is protected by a 100-yr levee uno uh- they want - FEMA wants the O&M manual & the as-built drawings as part of the package that they - TW:  So - JZ:  that they want to, to do that step. 


TW:  So the A99 is an interim designation as far as we're concerned?  JZ:  Yes, right.  JW:  Eric, Isn't that - just for clarification - is it the highest level of the det pond?  Is that - EM:  That's what we're - JW:  Is that what A99 equals?  Or - EM:  Well, that's what we're looking at.  A99 means that it's a, a, a zone that enough progress has been made toward a, a levee that your ins rates will be rated as if it was a Zone X.  Now when they took that A99 designation & Dennis Stephens' hydrology studies, they didn't incorporate-in the base flood levels, the base elevation levels um that he submitted.  The only thing they put in, in the map itself, is the high water mark for the det basins. 


JW:  Does that mean that they'll get the reduction rate?  They won't get another one when it goes to X?  EM:  That's right.  That's right.  JW:  Their reduction is probably what they're gonna get - EM:  Well, now, now lemme, lemme back up.  With a Zone X, if u get uh a home loan that is uh a Fanny Mae or any way partipate with, with um the, the fed loan um program, in the A99, u have to buy fed flood ins.  Your banker is gonna make u have that - or mortgage person.  But if u're in a Zone X, it's not mandatory any more.  JW:  It's your call if - EM:  Yeah.  JW:  u decide _ -


CLM:  People should be apprised that some lending institutions STILL try to make u buy fed flood ins even in Zone X, either thru an ignorance of the law, changes, or maybe they get a cut out of the cmsn;  I don't know.  I mean people should be aware of the fact that once it gets to that point, they don't have to.  If the lender says hey, u don't have flood ins, u can say, hey - JKB:  To get the loan u have to.  JW:  If that's what their requiremt is - JKB:  That's right.  CLM:  No, I'm saying - JW:  if the bank says -


CLM:  No, what I'm saying is there have been instances over the last 10 or 15 yrs where the lending insitutions have tried to MAKE people get it when they didn't have to & when the person says hey, I don't have to, I know what's going on - JW:  Can a - CLM:  they say oh really!  JW:  lending institution require it no matter what?  CLM:  Well, they have to.  JW:  I mean can they say - CLM:  they HAVE to - JW:  u're gonna get it - CLM:  Well, they have to require it if u're not in Zone X.  JW:  I'm saying even if u're - EM:  I, I don't think - JW:  (in X?).  EM:  they can.  JW:  If u're in X - EM:  I mean - JW:  they can't make ya? 


EM:  I, I'm not so sure.  Uno typically, loans are privately negotiated, but here it's almost like somebody saying u have to get credit life & I don't think they can do that any more;  they used to do it.  & it's the same way with fed flood ins.  If it's not mandated, I don't think that they have a right to come in & tell ya, u have to get it as a condition of - JW:  But like - BW:  But it has to be (into or end of?) - JW:  they might try to - BW:  X rating.  CLM:  If they're crooks, they'll say, yeah, u got to.  Then if u don't wanna deal with it, u can go somewhere else.  BW:  A99 won't - EM:  No, no, no, A99 - JW:  If their brother-in-law sells the ins - (CLM laughs)  BW?: _ _ - 


EM:  &, & I think the mayor has a letter prepared uh or - JW:  Woulda gotten press release.  EM:  Ok.  JW:  But I mean I don't have the letter for - EM:  Ok.  JW:  distribution to all the citizens & bizs.  EM:  Yeah, I worked with Roxanne for a draft & I think there's one - JW:  Oh - EM:  one ready to get out.  JW:  maybe there's one closer than what I'm thinkin'.  EM:  Yeah & it, it's basically, it, it turns this around but it, it's a letter to everybody that has a policy down on the lower end that says pretty much exactly what the press release says & that is - JW:  Make sure the ald get that before anybody else gets that - EM:  Sure.  JW:  would u?  EM:  & that's is that - ?: _ - (chuckling) EM:  it's zoned A99 - DLC:  _ make those phone calls - EM:  & that u should go to your agent for re-rating of your current policy & for renewal purposes, uh they'll rate it as if it was in a - ?: _ _ - EM: uh special flood uh zone.  JW?:  _ _- ?: _ _ -  CLM:  hazard zone -   


EM:  &, & when I asked FEMA to give me - JKB?: _ _ - EM:  a %age increase or decrease - BW?: _ _ - EM:  they wouldn't do it simply because they said - BW?: _ _ - EM:  it's a policy-by-policy issure & all ratings - ?: _ _ - EM:  & the policies - BW:  Right.  EM: depend on the elevation of the prop, what improvemts have been done & so on & so forth.  But I, I, I think it's a pretty dramatic increase by & large;  it should be.  CLM:  It is.  EM:  decrease, I'm sorry.  DC:  Once u have that X - EM:  No, no, no, once u have this now - CLM:  With _ _ - BW:  The A99.  EM:  This as is if {sic}- ?: _ - EM:  it's a Zone X. 


BW:  Now with the A99, is flood ins required?  EM:  Yes, it is - by a lender.  BW:  With the X, is flood ins required?  DC:  No.  CLM:  No.  BW:  So we gotta wait until this A99 turns into an X, which is after FEMA makes their - EM:  If, if u have some sort of federally guaranteed loan, flood loan.  I mean u've got a levee & there's nothing gonna change with this levee - BW:  Right.  EM:  It's your call whether or not u wanna insure it UNLESS u have some loan - BW:  that the lender - EM:  requires it.  BW:  the lender requires it.  EM:  Yeah. 


BW:  Yeah, ok, but now to be under the FEMA plan, the city has to participate in uh FEMA, right?  EM:  Yeah, but it's still your option to get ins even under that.  BW:  At - since the changing of this designation - EM:  Well, no any time!  U never had to have ins unless your lender said u did.  We - we're all - I mean the city's a participant, but it's optional.  If - ?:  _ _ - EM:  if u wanna get ins, u, u can! 


CLM:  A good example, in CV, a lot of the bizs did not have flood ins - BW:  I know they didn't, yeah.  CLM:  because they didn't have loans if the lender didn't require 'em to get any.  There was a mad, a mad stampede 'n 24 hrs before the levee broke to get flood, to get flood ins & many of 'em got it.  BW:  So then we should - after this letter comes out, then all the prop owners can go to their ins agent - ?:  _ - BW:  & have it re-rated or - EM:  That's right, yeah.  They should re- they should pro-rata re-rate it for your existing policy - BW:  Or - EM:  effective 3/31.  BW:  then it could be dropped too if the lender will go along with that? 


EM:  Um, no, the, the lender cannot - the lender has to require fed flood ins so long as it's zoned in this A99.  Once it is re-rated or once it's re uh designated to um - BW:  X - EM:  to Zone X, then u don't even have to have it.  BW:  Ok, but right now u have to have it until this X - TW:  IF your loan - BW:  comes to pass?  TW:  requires it.  BW:  Right, right, yeah, that's the bottom line. CLM:  But u should get a rate reduction pro-rat, pro-rata re-(rate?) - BW:  Right, just for the A99, yeah.  CLM:  Right. 


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  9 of  16


JKB:  Eric, How much longer u think before that - EM:  I, I think that's really up to Jim - JZ:  How much longer u say?  BW:  to go from the - TW:  For your O&M - BW:  A99 to X?  JZ:  That is - uno that's a ques I will look into.  JKB:  How long - JZ:  I, I - JKB:  (just before?) the A99?!  JZ:  Well, I, I think our job is to get the O&M manual & the - CLM:  As-built - JZ:  as-built drawings finished, ok.  - ?:  Well - JZ:  then we've done what we can do, but, but we're not there yet & I don't have a schedule.  I have a schedule that - uno things are just - have been going slowly because of people being pulled off the job & going into New Orleans & all this biz - CLM:  Mississippi.  JZ:  So I will try to nail down a schedule & get it back - CLM:  Probably within the next - BW:  But do we - CLM:  12 months _ -


BW:  officially have a A99 rating right now?  EM?:  Yes!  Effective 3/31.  JZ:  U're talkin' about for the X rating, X (chuckle) - JKB:  No, I wasn't talkin' about - if we're gonna drop our ins down.  EM:  OH, OH!  That's - TW:  Yeah, that's (now or not?) -  EM:  that's current.  DLC: _ - BW:  No.  DLC:  _(mtg?) right now.  DC:  U should contact 'em right now - ?:  3/31 - DC:  about your ins.  ?:  Yeah.  EM:  U, u'll get a letter.  We're, we're workin' on that letter & we'll get it out to u by next wk.  JKB:  Because I'm asked that ques about every other day & (chuckling)  I say I - EM:  Yeah - JKB:  _ idea what's goin' on.  EM:  it's, it's FINE & that's - there's a press release in your pkt that pretty much explains that. 


JW:  Do u think everybody in the entire city should get that letter or just the affected residents?  EM:  I would think anybody that owns prop down here & - JW:  Now u're gettin' - EM:  & the affected residents. JW:  technical.  EM:  So, so I mean I, I don't know how to answer your ques - DS:  Send one to me so I can give it to MY ins guy.  JW: (chuckles) _ _ - EM:  Uno frank - DS?: _ _ - EM:  frankly, I think - ?: _ _ - EM:  our duty as, as a CITY, probably is to notify our residents (rather than?) _ - JW:  & bizs.  DS?:  _ not knowing _ - EM:  Yeah, & bizs.  (someone chuckles)  DS?: _ _ -


JZ:  Uno uh just a side piece of info - JKB:  This is just for (insurance tho?) - ?:  Yeah, I know - CLM?:  (probably or property?) _ -  JZ:  in Ste Genevieve.  EM:  Well, it's hard to - JZ:  I think that - EM:  hard to figure out - JZ:  I think the letter - DS?: _ - JZ:  is a good idea - ?: _ _ - CLM:  No, I'm sayin'  - JZ: my personal - ?: _ - CLM:  I just get - ?: _ - CLM:  ants to - JZ:  opinion.  CLM: get to Jeff City.  JKB?: _ - DC?:  (Be our guest?) - ?: _ _ -  EM?:  Well, if we work with (Kemp?) - JW?:  Yeah!  


JZ:  I was just gonna say, I think the letter is a good idea because my experience in - JKB?: _ _ - JZ:  Ste Genevieve is, a couple yrs after the fact - JW?:  Lotta people don't know - JZ:  that even tho there was public notices - JW:  Nobody knew their rate had changed.  JZ:  uno & people come to me & say, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT!  ?: _ _ -


BW:  Well, uno, there - JZ:  So I think it's - BW:  there are - CLM:  Of course just look - BW:  prop owners that's got - CLM:  at all the (pressures u resolved?).  BW:  prop LEASED OUT.  JW:  But the thing that this says - BW:  & if the lesee never - JW:  we'll give 'em -  BW:  finds out about it - JW:  (notified?) letter - BW:  that all the ins has been dropped -


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  10 of  16


DC:  The thing that that says - BW:  technically u - DC:  there in that letter - BW:  should be _ _ - DC:  that your ins does, but this doesn't actually mean - JKB?: _ _ - DC:  that u could start redev'g.  JW?: _ _ -  EM:  Yes, it DOES!  JKB?: _ _ -


DC?:  NO it doesn't!  ?: _ _ - EM:  That's the next step.  ?: _ _ - DC:  That's - when u get the X rating, THEN u'll be - ?:  Some people - EM:  NO.  DC:  dev'd.  EM:  NO, we're not - JW:  Yeah - EM:  we're not sayin' that.  JW:  have to tell John to quit bein' cold - EM:  What, what we're saying is - JKB:  _ what they do_ - EM:  when there's an X rated - JKB: _ _ - EM:  that means there's no base flood elevation at all that u have to build to.  JKB:  not only the aldermen.  DC:  Right.  ?: _ -


EM:  Ok.  What we're saying - JKB?: _ - EM:  in this new rating - JW: _ _ - EM:  that u have to build to the 1 ft above the - JW:  _ some of these ins - EM:  high water mark of the det basin.  JKB:  Uno if u don't fix it all - DC:  What is that?  JKB:  _ your ins _ - EM:  Uh 421.  DC:  421.  JW: _ _ - EM:  Yeah, or, or 420, it's one of the two.  JKB:  They just - EM:  So, so I mean - JKB?:  (drop the policy?) - EM:  that should pretty well open it up, David - ?: _ - EM:  is what I'm lookin' at?:  (farm records?) - ?:  _ - EM:  'cause u have to go by the map & that's, that's what the map says!  Yeah.  CLM:  (referring to EM's paperwork) This oughta be removed - EM:  Oh, uh, I know, I'm, I'm, I rejumbled in here.


DC:  Well, I, I hope u're right there, but - EM:  Well, there, there's no right & there's no wrong on it.  There is, there IS the revised map - DC: _ _ - EM:  & the revised map says that there's no - DC:  because we have - EM:  base flood elevation on it.  DC:  people that are uno outside the floodplain right now that they have to build that to 434.  EM:  Well, they have to build whatever the flood plain - DS:  _ _ - EM:  map says their base flood elevation is.


JW: Does that mean that some of the bldg cmsn we got on hold will be allowed to proceed then?  EM:  Yeah!  So long as they comply with our ords.  CLM:  U, u guys are beginning to reap the benefits of this project having been completed - JKB?:  (Ain't completed?) - CLM:  besides the flood protection - JKB?: _ - CLM:  from this - JW:  Right.  JKB: _ _ - CLM:  as it should be!  Heck, I just mentioned to Eric before, if I were - ?:  over base?  CLM:  runnin' this, I, I would send the letter in to every biz & citizen of VP so everybody shares in the good news.  JW:  Yeah, that's true! 


BW:  I think biz - CLM:  Even tho they're not directly affected by it.  JW:  Yeah, even tho they're not affected - BW:  prop owners - JW: some people, they're not affected but they still need to know.  BW:  & biz owners that don't necessarily own the prop, but - ?:  Right.  BW:  are leasing it & they WILL BE affected by the change.  JW:  They might be payin' for their own - BW:  Right.  JW:  ins.  CLM:  & u people that are workin' - BW:  Yeah.  CLM:  to make this happen, ought to get credit for it! 


JKB:  Right, well, they do.  If they got their own equipmt in there, if they don't own the bldg, they, they've gotta take - BW:  They gotta take care of their own ins - JKB:  Yeah - BW:  for contents - JKB:  Right.  BW:  Yeah.  JKB:  contents.  JW:  Yeah.  BW:  whether they're a prop owner or not.  JKB:  Right.  JW:  Good idea, u might as well let everybody -


DC:  The reason I'm asking is - EM:  We haven't submitted this press release out - DC:  I wanna make sure - EM:  yet, have we?  ...(exchange tapes)...  JW:...might be wantin' to give 'em lessons.  JKB: _ _ - ?:  I'll take one.  DC?: _ _ _ -  (they laugh) EM:  _ (we can make - if u?) wanna make it - there's a, a redundant phrase in there we wanna get rid of.  ?: _ _ -


BW:  So basically - ?: _ - ?: _ - BW:  in going to A99 - ?: _ - BW:  to X, time wise, we're lookin' at 6 months?  JZ:  Uh it's really in the hands of FEMA (chuckle) for once.  BW:  I _ _- JZ:  Well, once we, we do our part, which is at the O&M manual & the as-builts - BW:  When will, when will - JZ:  I don't know - BW:  that come to pass?  JZ:  how long it's gonna take FEMA, just -


BW:  When will u get your as-built - JZ:  Well, he already asked that ques & I don't have an answer.  Pat said I'll have an answer next time.   I have to - I have to look at - uno I have to talk with mgmt & see what kind of priority they're gonna give to this & who they're gonna let me _ - EM:  Basically - JZ:  _ _ - EM:  it sounds like it's much more admin now because - JZ:  Yeah.  EM:  they've reviewed all the plans & - JZ:  It does - EM:  all the hydrology & - JZ:  It does but uno there's that - JKB?:  _ _  JZ?:  Yeah.  BW:  It's a technicality we - JW:  Eric - BW:  gotta go thru. 


JW:  What's - JZ:  _ - ?:  _ _ _ - JW:  the usual reduction?  Do u - have u seen anybody in the past - what the rate drops down to - EM:  I, I - JW:   % _ _ - EM:  I asked the ques.  I, I called the uh the head of, of the, the Fed Ins Rate Map Program & they said - they kept on saying DON'T GO THERE, DON'T GO THERE!   JW?:  Uh!  EM:  because each, each policy is rated on elevation & on substantial improvemts - JW:  Everybody could have a different % _ - EM:  Exactly!  


CLM:  If u put the word out & the average is 20% - JW:  Oh yeah!  CLM:  the very 1st person to get that - JW:  Yeah!  CLM:  (is or it's?) gonna be 2% & they're gonna call u & say, u lyin' - JW:  Yeah!  CLM:  _ _ _ - JKB: Yeah _ - BW:  I talked to 'em a year ago - ?:  Talked to - BW:  & unofficially they said 10 to 80% less.  EM:  10 to 80!  Boy - JW:  10 to 80 - EM:  _ - (they all laugh & cmt indec at once) - DC:  Uh that's really narrow, isn't it?  BW:  Yeah!  I'm sittin' there, obviously uno they're - CLM:  Basically, that happened in Chesterfield - BW:  they're not gonna say _ - JW?:  Anything sounds good tho, doesn't it?.  BW:  Oh yeah!  ?: _ _ _- JW: _ down _ that group _ -


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  11 of  16


DC:  The core reason I asked is to make sure that we have this because I'm on the P&Z & so is Jeff.  JKB:  I said that's _ _ - DC:  I'm sure that we're gonna get some ques's from people that wanna do some dev'g down here & I would like to have something in, in writing that u could tell these people - just not say ok, uh this is 421 that we can build to - or can we get something from FEMA saying -


EM:  NO!  Listen, listen to me.  This is how our program works.  We have adopted an ord that talks about dev in the floodplain & it keys it all in to the PLACE on the map, ok, & that keys it into the base flood elevation that's established on the map.  DC:  Ok.  EM:  & we'll have to look at the map.  The mayor has a copy of the map.  THERE IS NO BASE FLOOD ELEVATION ON THAT MAP;  it specifically says that. There's no elevations AT ALL on that map EXCEPT in the det basins.  Ok?  & so we -


JW:  So u're gonna have to meet that (one?) - TW:  Would u - ?: _ _ just said.  TW:  just consider giving this to someone dev'g this, this newsletter in their pkt?  EM:  Well, that doesn't really answer the ques either.  What, what answers the ques is, is they come in to the bldg cmsnr & they ask how do I submit or what do I have to submit in the floodplain dev permit & it's - NOTHING'S CHANGED!  U build a foot above the uh base flood elevations - CLM?: _ - EM:  depicted on the map!  (That's yours?) - DC:  & that doesn't mean it has to ajoin- it has to hook on or anything else?  EM:  No!  No.  DC:  Ok.  EM:  No, no.  DC:  That's what - I've been tryin' to clear that up, Jeff, because I KNOW what's gonna happen one of these nites where -


JW:  What elevation is city hall?  Do uno what #'s this is?   DC:  The ba- uh out here, the gound?  JW:  Yeah.  DC:  I'd say it's somewhere between 420 & maybe uh 418.  JW:  'cause I thought - why is 421 stickin' - DC:  Well, mostly - JW:  in my head?  That was the # _ - EM:  4, 4 - I think u're right;  421 is the det basin.  Remember what, what our ord says tho too;  it says the LOWEST FLOOR has to be 1 foot above base flood elevation.  TW:  Or lowest access point.  EM:  Uh, uh yeah!  JW:  Right, u just couldn't have a basemt _ _ - TW:  Oh like these stairs down here - EM:  Base - basemt - TW:  goin' down to Jeff's ofc - EM:  cannot go down below;  that's right.    


DC:  It has to be - uno that'd be - ?: _ - ?: _ - TW:  Has to be about a foot above that.  JW:  So our, our basemt down here is technically - DCorTW:  It's a little below.  JW:  (chuckle) Yeah.  CLM:  A window could be below it & that would shut u down - u have a window for example below the _ - TW?:  Right.  CLM:  that's not - JW:  'Cause I know that's _ answer - that's gonna be a ques that everybody's gonna wanna know & - EM:  Yeah, so I don't - JW:  they're gonna say, well how do I find out - DC:  The highest one - JW:  what I - DC:  The highest point the last time u took it was down on, I guess it's 8th St & Benton or Vest, where the old Silar house is at 426. 


BW:  Either the white house or that one - that's the last _ - DC:  426 & the rest of it runs from 426 to - if u go over here on uh Leonard, at 5th & Leonard between 5th & 4th St & Leonard, that's probably something about 4 uh I would say maybe 416, 417 runs uno kinda whatever it is.  The rest of it is somewhere between I'd say 420, uh 422, there's 419 - it, it's, it - it goes, but it's pretty close to 420.  JW:  So as long - CLM:  _ - JW:  as the contractor fills or builds - CLM:  Well, the language u wanna use for dev is, the LOW SILL elevation.  If u look at your ord, that's what the ord says 'cause that boiler plate from FEMA's read.  ?:  Right.  CLM:  The low sill elevation must be 1 foot above the base flood elevation. 


EM:  I don't think it says that any more.  It - DC:  It don't say sill.  EM:  No, it's been changed;  it used to.  It, it's been changed just real recently.  CLM:  Really?  EM:  I think it's, it's the lowest floor.  CLM:  I think FEMA - DC:  The lowest floor level, right.  EM:  Right.  DC:  Now see we got most of these people that are buildin' out of it, they go 430- we say 434, but most of them go 436!  CLM:  Well, that - TW:  'Cause then that prohibits basemts - CLM:  Well - TW:  from being in the floodplain.  CLM:  what u - what they've done is they actually raised the, the required level. 


EM:  They did.  We got - CLM:  'Cause u could have - EM:  caught in that.  CLM:  a low - u could have a floor below - TW:  Right - CLM:  ground level - TW:  that's what - CLM: _ - TW:  based in a hse - CLM:  window sill - JW:  So nobody - TW:  policy.  CLM: _ the floor.  JW: will ever put a basemt in down here.  EM:  Well, no, no, no!  Wait. When we're Zone X, u can - JW:  Then u - EM:  put ANYTHING - JW:  A99 - EM:  just while we're in this interim period, that's right.  TW:  BUT, a BIG facility is probably not gonna build - JW:  Right - TW:  a basemt in - JW:  right.  TW: anyway.  JW:  I'm just makin' a (phone call?) _ - DC?:  Right.  JW?:  _body wantin' to build a new, a new home.  ?: _ -


TW:  Plus u also got the ground water table to deal with too.  BW:  Well, that would be probably tied to the uh det basin level?  TWorEM?:  Not necessarily - DC:  See I don't know - TWorEM?:  some of 'em.  DC:  what that det level there that they're going as because the one over - det basin over here on, on old Leonard Ave is a helluva lot lower than the one that's over here on Marshall Rd in back of the whachamacallit because that's, that's probably 421 over there.


EM:  4, 421 is the lowest of the - DC:  Is it?  EM:  Er no, it's - ?:  It's the highest.  EM:  it's the highest.  DC:  Highest.  EM:  I'm sorry;  it's the highest.  DC:  Highest - EM:  Other than in Arnold's uh Landing;  I think that's like 423, isn't it?  JZ:  U wanna look at the map (chuckle)?  EM:  We, we've got the map;  it's in the mayor's ofc.  It's no big deal.  DC:  No big deal - I mean I'm - just so when we're in the P&Z, that we'll know how to tell these people uno that they can just go by the ord & that it's - EM:  Yeah, just follow our ords, period.  DC:  until we get the X & then uno u're kinda on your own.  EM:  Sure, it's really not a P&Z issue.  It's a - it's just a bldg cmsn - DC:  Bldg, right but uno people are gonna bring it up in the P&Z.  


BW:  So is there any restrictions on an X Zone now, X rating?  Would there be any restriction - EM:  Just, just normal zoning;  that's it.  BW:  Well, yeah zoning, but as far as uh - TW:  Heck, 2/3 of StL is Zone X!  BW:  & u can do anything u want to?  TW:  WELL - CLM:  Once u get into Zone X - BW:  Well, within the - JW:  Now don't tell him that!  BW:  (chuckling, JW laughing)  No, no, I mean uno - TW:  No, that's why I said, well - ?: _ _ - BW:  _ relative to the flood plain. 


TW:  Well, well, there are other permits that kick in;  for instance, just land disturbance permits for over an acre.  CLM:  Oh yeah, u still have - TW:  Those are all - BW:  Well, yeah that - TW:  still part of it, yeah.  BW:  Yeah, that does -  TW:  Your COE permits & uno anything over 1 acre, u, u still have to let everybody know what u're disturbing - BW:  Right.  TW:  but it's a different - BW:  different area.  TW:  different area but still, DNR &, & the COE (has stiffer?) 406.  CLM:  (Still?) what u -


DC:  Has anybody determined what DNR - over here on the corner of 5th & StL - what that elevation is?  Uno they got that bldg goin' in there.   EM:  Yeah, we, we went ahead & told them to go ahead &, & do it regardless of elevations.  It's, it's an env'l issue.  DC:  Yeah it's env'l.  EM:  Over-riding issues &, & we knew this was coming anyway, so - TW:  It's also US-EPA thing.  DC:  As long as (he or we?) knew a friend.  (someone chuckles)   EM:  WELL, it, it dudn't really matter!   TW:  U.S. - EM:  If I had _ _ _ a - TW:  (chuckling) EPA supercedes just about everybody, so - EM:  Yeah.  CLM:  Just once u get into Zone X - DC:  Huh?  TW: They supercede everybody! 


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  12 of  16


CLM:  U say well, why do we need to go to, to add'l flood protection, 500-yr or 250-yr - the reason is, is people making the decisions whether to come in there or not will be less likely to decide to come in the area that's 100-yr protection than to one that has 250 to 500-yr protection.  So we're really lookin' at affecting the decisions about (2-fer?) devrs by getting add'l protection.


JW:  That's what - our uh planner was asked that ques.  At the biz mtg, somebody asked would that affect, say Chrysler constituents that come in here & his answer was no to them, but I mean everybody's different I guess.  CLM:  Well, certainly people - JW:  I mean - CLM:  Look at Chesterfield - JW:  if u had a choice - CLM:   Look at CV!  JW:  I mean - TW:  Depends on who they're - what the risk & who - CLM:  Well, look at - TW:  the devr is. 


CLM:  look at CV!  BW:  Made a big difference out there.  CLM:  People didn't come in out there with a 100-yr levee!  BW:  They waited for a 500-yr levee & then they came in like a flood.  JW:  Right.  CLM:  I'm here to tell u the 500-yr level is the URBAN-DEGREE of protection - BW:  Right.  ?: _ - CLM:  & from all practical purposes, devrs consider that to be totally free of flood threat. 


JKB:  _ not ready to _ wait that long _ (father?) & get flooded.  DC?:  (chuckles)  _ -  CLM:  I'm hopin' I don't or they'll run me outta town!  (they laugh)  TW:  Well - DC:  Is that - TW:  wouldn't u like to see one right before we retire (CLM laughs)  just to see if the levee works _ _  (_they laugh_ ) _ _ -


CLM:  U guys need a 100, a THOUSAND-yr protection - u want me to work on that for ya?  (TW chuckles)  No, actually CV for example, actually because that project was designed for the 500-yr protection with 3 ft of add'l freeboard, when the 500-yr flood elevation was HIGHER than it is now & they re-studied it, the 500-yr flood elevation is actually LOWER than that part's designed for.  So they probably have 1000-yr protection in CV right now.  (BW laughs)  U've got greater than 100-yr here!  U've got 100 yrs + 3 ft of freeboard, which is probably 250 to 300 yr -


TW:  I think Dennis (probably Stephens of COE) said - CLM: _ _ -  DC:  & with - TW:  if he had to - DC:  & with the COE workin' on the MO River, what they're doin' - TW:  it was around 200.  DC:   hell, u may never have a flood on that MO River  (laughing) _ _.   (CLM laughs heartily)  If south, if, if North Dakota & them take all that water that they _ - CLM:  They're, they're (living in it?) - DC:  u won't have - CLM:   Wait till the Indians - ?: _ _ -  DC:  to worry about it.  JW?: _ _ - CLM:  Wait till the Indians get (together?) - DC:  _ hasn't started on it yet - ?: _ _ - DC:  That's just the Dakota's, they want all that water.  ?: _ (lawsuit?) - CLM:  & they've got the rights to it.  Well, of course - ?:  (an hour?) - CLM:  & the laws - ?:  _ - CLM:  back to the 19th century.  ?:  So he'll have to (pave?) that.  TW: (leaving)  Gentlemen.  BW?:  Have a good evening.  DC:  Ok, everybody - u - CLM:  Take care, Tom. 


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  13 of  16


DC:  I just got a couple things here.  Uh I contacted uh 2 env'l uh maint people, uh one is GPM & it's out of uh West Alton (3/20/06 he said Sunset Hills), & another one from Vandalia, Enviro-Tech.  This is for the mowing & the maint of the levee.  Uh GPM, they work with the COE right now & they do just about everything that u can imagine.  They do levee maint, hydro-seeding, erosion control, water-way maint, hydro-ax cleaning, tree planting, transplanting, land & acquatic herbicide treatmts;  & uh the other one is JD Sommers. 


JM & I met with both of these people & went over the levee & looked at it.  I got some uh plans & profiles that I'm gonna be sendin' 'em tomorrow.  I got 'em uh this wk or last wk & uh they do - they have all worked with the uh COE.  They, they've worked with the COE & know how to do all this.  & in the next - probably within the next month, I'll have some kind of bids & uh, uh scope of work of how they, they handle all this.  I mean it's uh -


CLM:  Do they have any experience in trappin' varmits?  DC:  Uh they do but their rcmd - they had 2 rcmds;  u either call the local conservation people & see what they say or else uh they have some - JW:  Get the sharp-shooters out here!  DC:  He can put me in contact with some real good shots with rifles & that.  (they laugh) - CLM:  Hello, what, Scott! (CLM laughs)   JW:  They (caught?) him with Deadeye Don here, too  (BW laughs) CLM:  But the preferred method now is gasoline.  ?: _ - DLC?:  Give me a shotgun;  that works a lot better. 


DC:  Now about the only thing that they really have a problem with is uh the uh ground hogs.  They do have some problem with beavers & stuff like that but he said it's - that's sort of - uno they can catch the beavers pretty good.  The ground hogs are the ones - CLM:  Gas ('em?), gasoline - DC:  that are really - & muskrats sometimes, but most of the time it's the uh groundhogs that u have the problem with.  BW:  Boy, there's some big ones down by me, back in there - DC:  Oh yeah.  BW:  there's some HUGE groundhogs!  CLM:  I could put u in touch with a guy that yrs ago, used to do it for Monarch Chesterfield.  DC:  Well - CLM:  They paid him 25 cents an animal & after about 5 or 6 yrs, they found out he was payin' kids a quarter apiece to kill 'em & bring 'em in.  (BW cracks up) 


DC:  But the only thing is with shootin' around here, it's kind of in a res area & uno u'll have people comin' down on u about - CLM:  No, they use, they use gas bombs down there _ _ - JW?:  (& tie up funds?) for a police dept.  BW:  Now, did this maint of the levee & everything - does that include grass cutting & - DC:  That includes grass cutting, the whole - BW:  which is what currently the city is doing now?  DC:  Right. 


CLM:  Re-seeding, that's the whole 9 yds.  DC:  Right, right.  We do it now.  We do the - JKB:  Clampets are coming down - DC:  area up on Vance Rd - JW?:  (StLCnty?) - DC:  Fishpot - JW?:  _ _ down - DC:  We do our, our area down here, the 3A & 3B;  it's the only one we do.  We didn't - JW:  _ - DC:  we haven't - JW: _ _ - DC: done anything - JW: _ _ - DC:  on the new levee, the 4B because of the fact is - JW: _ - DC:  it's still under contract with ESI to get - JW: _ - DC:  their erosion & get grass seed growin' on it & the turf.  They gotta establish a turf & get it cut one time in order that we're gettin' the turf.


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  14 of  16


CLM:  Jim, It just dawned on me, does the city have to, to make any sort of application to be incorporated in the 8499 Levee Inspection Program or does that become automatic with a levee project?  JZ:  I'm not absolutely sure about - uh u'll have to coord with Jake Scanlon on that.  Uh - CLM:  That's something u wanna, u wanna - JZ:  There are certain requiremts I think that - DC:  What, that we be inspected?  CLM:  Well, that u be in the 8499 Program.  JZ:  Yeah.  DC:  Right, we are, I'm sure - JZ:  financial - DC:  we're in it because - CLM:  U want - JZ:  I think they have - uno financial - CLM:  But u, u have to get a letter from the COE Emerg Ops Ofc I think - JKB?:  (That'll be another yr?).  CLM:  it says u are a part of the program - JW?: _ _ - CLM:  here are the requiremts u have to meet & so forth - JW?: _ _ - CLM:  & they come out & inspect every yr.  BW?: _ -


JZ:  Oh!  That reminds me - there's um - DS?: _ _ - JZ:  something called - DS?: _ _ - JZ:  a periodic inspection - JKB:  I don't care!  JZ:   that the COE does every 5 yrs.  ?: _ _ - JZ:  or so (chuckle) - DS?:  _  we know.  JZ:  & uh they, they wanna do one for VP.  Typically, the 1st periodic inspection is done before the project's really turned over to the sponsor - JKB:  _ - JZ:  & so it's a kind of an independent group that comes out & does a thorough inspection & that's - I've asked - DS: _ _ - JZ:  'em to do it this summer.  & the costs - CLM:  That's a good time _ - JZ:  assoc'd with that is part of the project cost - I guess it's cost shared.  We had one done in Ste Genevieve & they came up with a couple of things that we ended up adding to the project to uh - CLM:  Uno I think, I think that's a very good idea.


JZ:  After that, it's uh - ?: _ _ - JZ:  done as part of the uh - it's kind of funded by the O&M Program.  JW: Yeah, but they offered - ?: _ - JZ:  They only do - they do it for dams & - ?: _ - JZ:  they do it for levees that are uno - JW?: (chuckle)  Yeah, they would - DS:  Jeff should be in here.  JZ:  uh protect different areas.  CLM:  A little extra - JKB: _ _ - CLM:  any levee that's in the program, even agrugs {sic}  (maybe means agricultural levees)JZ:  Well, this is - DS: (I often wondered?).  JZ:  this is a more detailed - CLM:  Oh, u're talkin' about - u're talkin' about the other inspection - JZ:  This is a - DS?:  _ _ - JZ:  more detailed inspection than - CLM:  I'm talkin' about the - JZ:  your typical uh - CLM:  talkin' about the annual - JZ:  Fall - CLM&JZ:  inspection.  CLM:  that keeps u in the 8499 Program.  JZ:  Yeah, this is more than that. 


CLM:  Uno 8499 is for - DS: _ _ - CLM:  if u have a problem - DS: _keeps his _ - CLM:  u have a flood emerg & - JW:  _ it's a wonder u can't - CLM:  the levee's damaged.  DS:  1st time he ever signed up I think.  CLM:  The COE comes in & - DC:  Right.  CLM:  designs a fix, contracts it out - JKB?: _ _ - CLM: _ pay 25% & the fed gov't pays 75% - DC:  Right. JW?:  _ _ right.  DC?:  I think we're - CLM:  If u DO want - ?:  (he'd?) be here - CLM:  a letter from the Emerg Ops Ofc in the COE - JKB: Valley Days - CLM:  sayin' that U ARE in the program - DC:  That's Scanlon, ain't it?  JZ:  Yeah, we have him.  CLM:  Yeah.  DS:  He's wantin' to get the powers.  DC:  Uhh like - DS:  Come on down there - Valley Days -


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  15 of  16


DC:  Jim was talking here - ?:  _ _ - DC:  about the uh sandbags.  I got sandbags & - ?: _ _ - DC:  other materials.  Uh did u check, uh Eric, can we use the TIF money for bldgs once we find out how much sand we have to store?  EM:  Yeah, I think we can, we can add that as a, as some sort of capital improvemt that's - DC:  Ok.  EM:  integral to the, the levee. 


DC:  Ok, I just wanna run over some of the Punch List items here that we've got.  Uh Jim talked about the repairs of the joints & seals, that's already finished.  & um we got some grated inlets that uh Pat looked at the other day & said that they're gonna try to work those in down at Leonard Field.  They're uh fiberglass & they're going to make 'em uh metal, steel.  & uh that's Item 2 here.


Uh we are working on the - I understand on the add'l erosion prevention along - at the GG area, over in the channel _ _ north of that.  Uh Greg Bertoglio, uh JM went over & was doin' some trimmin', cuttin' the trees off & he met Greg Bertoglio & he stopped on that because Greg is lookin' into the fact that they would uh spray the trees once they leaf-out, the ones remaining we didn't cut down - & spray the trees & then when they're done, they cut 'em down, cut 'em off.  So uh we're waitin' to - I'm waitin' to hear from Greg - what they decided to do.  This is one of the things that the uh - if we have one of these companies with - we hire uh contract with them, they'll do that automatically as part of their contract with them.  They'll do that automatically as part of their contract, the, the spraying of trees when they grow up, maint'g the uh det ponds & keepin' the uh trees from in there & all that.  Uh they're going to uh repair some of the rip-rap;  they're lookin' at that. 


Uh also, we had a, a ques that I had on mine about installing bollards at 2 locations.  That's one of - at MerSta & 141 at the diversion uh box up there, diverting the water into the GG - into the Fishpot Creek uh in - when the river is up & also at the sluice gate op'r (operator) on the levee at 141.  We were talkin' about puttin' bollards up & uh I talked to uh Greg Bertoglio & uh Jim Mills & they figured that the bollards are not uh the answer to itThey - we need something more than bollards & that uh he is uno working on a design of what they really need.  We talked to MODOT & we were told flatly that MODOT will not put up any guard rails or anything that's - they just - they're not gonna do it. 


So in discussion with Bertoglio & uh Jim Mills, they feel that they have some pull maybe with MODOT & they're gonna come up with designs in order to maybe put new guard rails & a secondary type of uh - uh to catch any of the big vehicles.  They measured - surveyed it & they feel that the trucks & that that use that are too big to - the bollards would not stop a big truck from goin' over the curb & into those 2 op'rs or the 3 op'rs.   & if that would happen, at the worse case scenario, we may have high water or getting high water & something run off the road & we can't close the gate or the glated gate is damaged & we can't open it or close it or whatever at either of those locations - would, would actually uno cause very - a big problem if the river was comin' up.  So they're lookin' into it & hopefully we'll have some kind of uh better luck with the uh - they'll have better luck with the MODOT than we had with 'em because they flatly - & they said that the only thing that they'd put up is some plastic things which they did up on 141 at the bridge, goin' over the bridge.  I mean -


JW:  _ _ - DC:  I, I could never understand what the guy told me - told JM & I that they wouldn't extend it & I asked the ques why, why wouldn't u extend it because before the levee was up, all a car'd have to do is run off the road & they'd be down on 141 at the - on the old high - on the old road, MerStaRd, or underneath the bridge down there on River Dr or whatever.  & he said, well, they took that into consideration & they didn't think that would be because the new guard rail up there would ONLY cause ALL the damage or the wreckage to remain in the hwy.  Now if that is any type of reasoning to keep, to keep a guard rail from uh takin' a - keepin' a wreck from bein' in the hwy, which I think is - uno whatever!  So - but they had no - they wouldn't work with us so I hope we'll have that uh -


uhh I understand that ESI is on the project again, working, doing some erosion.  Uh one of the uh fellas that was here before is here & they're workin' on solvin' the erosions & uh getting grass growin' & stuff like that & we'll have to see how that's workin' out.  I, I didn't go down there today, but they were here last week, so maybe they came back this wk & worked on it.


Uh it looks like the Punch List items are gonna be pretty well taken care of probably by the, by early summer;  I would say  - DS?:  How could - DC: maybe uh - ?:  _ _ - ?: _ _ - JZ:  Well, 1st, we have to get 'em in the contract - DC:  Right, but - DC&JZ:  I think that - DCorJZ:  maybe - JZ:  the work's been extended to next FY myself. 


DC:  U think it will?  (no response heard)  Well, I, I really don't know but these are - these are very - these are very minor problems that we have to - the one major problem I think is getting the uh sill plates on the uh, uh Vance & uh StL Ave uh finished & get them repaired because I think that the more time that they're floppin' around or bouncin' around down there, it's just gonna get worse & possibly - & Duane felt the same way, that he would like to get it done. 


But maybe by the end of the school year we'll have something uh more definite on how, how we're gonna _ _ _ (that?).  But the rest of it I mean - & I don't think that that - when - if we'd have to close the gate today, that those uh seals down there wouldn't uh wouldn't seal because of the weight of the gate, but we may have to do some sandbagging if there is uh some little leakage around it.  But all the water - any water that comes in underneath the thing is gonna go into the uh storm drains & go into the det ponds anyway.  So we're not really - uno it's not a, a big thing but we -


4/17/06 LEV - Sec  16 of  16


BW:  I think I'd be more concerned about the RR closure gate.  DC:  Oh the RR - well, that's another ques I - BW:  That's a tough one to seal.  DC:  endeavor - I'm gonna bring up tonight at the ald mtg.  I'll let uno;  I'm gonna bring it up tonight.  I think we need to get in contact some way or another with the RR uh the BN, & have them come to a mtg or something so we can discuss WHO's gonna be responsible with the gate because we don't have a key.  They've got a key to the gate & they got THEIR lock on it.  So at any time, we have to know the person uh that we can contact to get, get this key & open (BW chuckles) this thing, lock, so we can close the gate! 


JW:  We got the key out in the shop.  DC:  U got one?!  JKB:  (Front door?) - JW:  Bolt cutters & cuttin' torch.  DC:  Well, yeah - JW:  If it got to that point, trust me - DC:  that, that may be but - JW:  we'd take the paymts for liability.  DC:  I would like to say uno that we have maybe some person here that - because uno we've been waitin' for about 4 months now, tryin' to get an emerg crossing put up there.  I call this guy once or twice a wk & it's always, by next wk, & I call him & he said well I got so much work, I just can't do it.  & I, I know it's gettin' a little bit uno like they put the ties in & now he's gotta get some kind of plates to put on it or whatever but I, I don't knowUh I plan to call him - I called him last wk & he said, well, probably by the end of the wk I'll be able to work on it.  Well, uno the end of the wk comes & nothin'.  I'll call him again tomorrow & - JW:  Now uno why it took Eric so long to get all them esmts for that - DC:  Oh I know - JW:  for that levee (he chuckles).  


DC:  I, I - uno I hate to get Eric involved in it again because of the fact is that uno it - he's the trackmaster or whatever it is & uno it - they're badest.  EM:  It's a - ?:  _ bad as - EM:  bad situation.  ?:  the lawyer in this town.  EM:  They have keys to the - ?:  Yeah.  EM:  the flood gate.  I, I didn't  know that was the case.  ?: _ _ - EM:  I thought we - DC:  Yeah, they put their - EM:  were gonna op that - DC:  They put, they put their gate - they put their lock on it!  ?: _ _ - DC:  We wanted to put a lock on it - DS: _ _ - DC:  & they said NO WAY - ?: _ - DC:  are u puttin' YOUR lock on it - ?: _ - DC:  we'll put OUR lock on it.  EM:  I guess we oughta have a double, double lock where we -


JZ:  I, I mean as much as - BW:  They want total control over it - JZ:  personnel change - BW:  of when it goes up or down - to open & close that gate.  EM:  Jim, What's your experience?  Any uh past track record of - JZ:  Um I don't think in Ste Genevieve that the RR has the control over the gates, the gates over the RR's;  it's, it's the levee cmsn.  They have to coord with them!  EM:  I just can't imagine it.  JZ:  They have to coord.  EM:  Who in the hell HAS the key?  JW:  Yeah, cause the RR - EM:  Does the trackmaster?  JW:  ain't gonna care if water's runnin' thru there.    DC:  That's what I'd like to know!  ?: _ - DC:  I guess the trackmaster.  I - DS: _ _ - DC:  I mean I've asked RH & - DS:  gets up - DC:  HE don't know - DS: _ _ - DC:  who got the key!  DS:  finds one _ thru there.  DC:  I guess maybe -


JZ:  One of the, one of the RR's is BN (chuckle) out in Ste Genevieve, same RR.  EM:  &, & presumably, maybe the same trackmaster!  I don't know how far this - JZ:  Not sure - DC:  I don't know!   JZ?:  Might be.   EM:  I think we better revisit this &, & work something out.  DC:  I better bring it up to the BOA tonight & maybe Jeff, u & Jeff can gather & get a letter - DS?:  _ _- DC:  & send it to - DS?: _ - DC:  uh whoever u - JW?: _ _ - DC: contacted before & have him come to a mtg & discuss this or have a mtg with, with 'em & let us know what they're gonna do - either let us have a key to THAT LOCK so when the river comes up we can go shut the gate! 


EM:  We always contacted - it was a 3rd party outfit & that changed in mid-stream.  BN has a 3rd party adminr - JW: _ _ - EM:  but that's not maint.  JW:  (not knowin'?) (chuckle).  MM:  Dave, Who is your trackmaster?  DC:  Who?  MM:  Who's your trackmaster u were talking to?  DC:  I'm not gonna - u, u can call the RR & find out.   I'm not gonna - I'm not gonna mention ANY NAME, who the trackmaster is OR ANY NAMES HERE WHATSOEVER - JW:  Call RH, he'll tell u.  MM:  I mean so JZ will know if it's the same guy - DC:  Well - MM: _ - DC:  I don't think it'll be the trackmaster that we're gonna, that we're gonna contact with the key.  I think that's somebody that - uno whether he, he's gonna be instructed by somebody from BN to give us a key or take their lock off it & let us put our city lock on it.  I don't know what they're -  I don't know what they're afraid of.  Maybe they're afraid of somebody goin' up there with a bolt-cutter & cuttin' it & closin' the gate or - JW: _ _ - DC:  vandalism or something like that.  ?: _ _ -


EM:  I, I can just think all sorts of issues - DS: _ _ - EM:  #1, the COE may not be able to certify the levee if, if a 3rd party has some sort of op & maint function of - ?:  Uhh!   EM:  of that.  Uh what - ?: _ - EM:  what if they decide not to close it uno?  JZ:  I would say look at your legal agreemt with - EM:  Yeah - JZ:  within the city & - EM:  Yeah - ?:  _ - JZ:  _ the 3-party agreemt between the COE, city & - EM:  Gotta take a look in there.  JW: _ _ -


DC:  I'll bring it up tonight at the ald mtg & let them know & we, we can decide if u wanna - JW?: _ _ - DC:  send 'em a letter or have 'em come to this mtg or - EM:  Sure.  DC:  whatever they're gonna do.  ?:  __ - DC:  I mean I'd like to get it - JW?: _ - DC: I'd like to get it so our guys have a key that they can go up  ?: _ - DC:  & not have to fool around & telephone anybody - JW:  _ _ _ - DC:  or get on the phone & that guy says - ?: _ - ?: _ - DC:  well I gotta call - JZ:  Well, I think u have to notify them, whether u have a - DC:  Oh we'll notify 'em!  JZ:  key or not.  I mean they're - they, they'll wanna - DC:  Well, we're - JW?: _ - JZ:  flagman on-site.  DC:  It's not - JW?: _ _ - JZ:  U can't get on their prop without a flagman.  So I mean there has to be all kinds of - DC:  Well, I'm not - JZ:  communications.  DC:  worried about notifying 'em! 


As long as we have a, we have the key, we can notify 'em that hey, the river is at this point, we've got to close it NOW because this is according to the COE & to the uh weather bureau - JW:  _ _ - DC:  that the river's - JW:   _ now - DC:  going to this height at this time & we've gotta - JKB: _ _ -  DC:  get it closed & - DS: _ Spring - DC:  that's it;  that's all it is.  DS: _ _ - DC:  We've got it on our - EM:  We'll, we'll work it out.  DS: _ if we can't close the gate, we'll move it!  DC:  Ok.  I'll bring it up tonight (someone laughs) & let - try to work it out & try - JW: _ - DC:  to get something done. 


JW:  _ remember that one yr  -  DC:  I'm workin' on this - JW:  real high & they - DC:  We've got - JW:  parked a - DC:  the permit - JW:  train on the - DC:  for the crossing & all this bit but - DS:  parked a train on it in 1982!   DC:  I don't know what _ - ?:  _ _ -  JW:  Yeah!  JKB:  (Whoopin' or open?) it up.  DC:  with the trackmaster & he can - DS: _ - DC:  get somebody out here & get his - JW:  They'd be wantin' to do that.  DC: his topboards or whatever it is.   I've asked - JW:  I want a beer - DC: a couple RR guys - JW:  if I'm gonna make it happen.   DC:  that work here - JWorDS:  (Fok?) 'em!  DC:  & they - JKB:  The levee was - I know it.   DC:  they don't even know - DS:  (Ron Bartley decided?) - DC:  what the hell he's talkin' about.  I said what's a - DS:  _waterline - DC:  topboard & they said I don't know what the hell top u're talkin' - DS?:  & they'll call it personal leave - DC: what are u talkin' about, Dave. 


(another simultaneous bkgd chat)  CLM:  _'s takin' us on.  EM:  _ _ _ - DC:  I said well that's what - CLM: _ - DS:  if we can get a car - CLM:  _ Maureen - DC:  Huh?  DS:  & park it on this side - CLM:  Uno what it would look like!  She _ - DS:  of the tracks  -


DC:  I THINK IT'S THE bd that - when they put a - ?: _ - DC: crossing in, uno that wood that - DS:  goin' down the coast guard - DC:  goes on top of the ties - DS:  & _ wanna - DC:  they bolt this thing in - ?: _ - DS:  Luke's tryin' to move the fence over - DC:  so u got the rails - DS:  Luke _ _ thru there -  (JW starts laughing)  DC:  are the same height as this crossing & it's grooved-out or whatever - JW:  Bet u  - DC: _ _ - JW:  told him u - DC: _ _ - JW:  wind up down in New Orleans.  DC: & all that.  DS:  & we had no biz down there anyway -


JZ:  Yeah, uno u DO have - DS:  because all the power was off - JZ:  a faster rising river - DS: uno (Bruce?) wanted to have - JZ:  than in the Mississippi, so.  DS:  his (boy?) there.  BW?:  Oh, this - CLM:  Uno, I think the mayor - JZ:  Well, I think, I think everybody - JWorDS:  He didn't wanna go after that.  JZ:  needs to have a plan.  BW:  It's very volatile - JW:  _ - DS:  the guy finally - BW:  as far as the river comin' up _ uno - DS: _ - JZ:  Could happen in June - DS: _ - ?:  _ _ (JW chuckles)  - JZ:  & close it at 2 in the morning uno.  DS:  stoppin' us & another bolt comin' out the - DC:  & SURPRISINGLY, with - I don't know if uh - JKB:  have to get Jim out here -  JZ:  _ when the morning train's comin' in - JKB?:  some people wouldn't get in the water -


DC:  Whachamacallit - Reichhold over here - JKB?:  When your house is flooded - DC: when we closed the thing the last time - JKB:  We were all out inner-tubing - DC:  the gates - ?: _ _ - ?:  So mine - DC:  uh we kept uh eye on the amt of water that was goin' in the det pond over there - ?: _ - ?:  because Reichhold was runnin' water.  We uno u could - the water was pourin't thru this thing & we closed the gate - ?: _ - DC:  & the fellas here were goin' down & lookin' at it - ?: _ _ - DC:  & Reichhold must've shut their pumps off - DS: _ - DC:  because uno they usually shut 'em off at - ?: _ - DC:  an elevation - a certain elevation but we didn't get to that point - ?: _ - DC:  we were


JKB?:  _ _ _ - JW: _ _ 1st.  DC:  way away from the place - JW:  _ _ hold that _ - DC: for them to shut the pumps off.  So maybe - ?:  I _ - DC:  just on their OWN, maybe they shut their pumps down & - ?: _ _ - DC:  didn't put the water thru there - DS:  He said it - DC:  because we didn't get - DS:  cost us over 220 something.  DC:  we didn't get ANY water - DS:  said _ - DC: & we should've got - DS:  that certainly  - DC:  SOME water comin' up in the det pond - JW:  Oh that's fine!  I'm not gonna - BW:  Just from their pumps.  ?:  _ _ - DC:  just from their pumps.  ?: _ _ - CLM:  They mighta figured - DS?: _ _ - CLM:  it was gonna come up at 3:00 in the morning - DS: _ - CLM:  & they didn't wanna - DS: _ - CLM:  keep everybody up all night - DS: _ _ - CLM:  so just shut it down ahead of time.


DC:  I don't really know.  JW?: _ didn't care WHO!   DC:  but uh - DS:  I wudn't gonna - DC:  I didn't go over & talk to 'em.  I was waiting' till it - ?:  _ - DC:  got to the point where the weather bureau said, hey, this is how high it's gonna go & it reached where they're supposed to shut the pumps off, & then I was goin' over & tell 'em, uno we gotta shut the pumps off & uh the guy told me, he said whenever u need to shut these pumps or whenever u're gettin' high water, let me know & I - fine.  


CLM:  That river _ - DC:  So maybe they're readin' - maybe they got the same thing on - JW:  Remember in '82, they parked a train on that bridge to hold that bridge down.  So they might be thinkin' they're gonna do that again!  DC:  Well, I mean that track don't - JW:  _ _ - DC:  I don't care whether they're gonna - ?: _ - DS:  When it washed the track out in 82, it washed all the - by the water plant - DC:  Right.  DS:  u could look under the RR track - JW:  It was wide open.  DS:  & could see daylight!  ?:  Yeah.  CLM?  Really?!  DC:  Right, yeah.  DS:  Oh yeah.  


JW:  So that might be what, what they're thinkin' again.  Hey, we gotta park our train on that track right there!  JKB:  Yeah, they - DC:  Well, they can park their train - ?: _ - DC:  they can park cars on there - BW:  Yeah.  JW:  But they didn't get it far enough out - ?: _ _ - DC:  because - ?: _ - JKB:  Well, they won't because they don't WANT it to wash out underneath it!  They just wanted to keep it from washin' off of that bridge.  BW:  Yeah, they just wanted some weight on the bridge to keep the bridge from givin' way.  JW:  _ poor guy that had to ride that out there, walk back  (they crack up).  JKB:  No, they didn't leave the engine runnin'.  JW:  Go on out there, Helton!  (they laugh)  CLM:  We'll wait back here.  JW:  Yeah! 


JKB:  Are we done?  I'm gonna get outta here.  I got - DC:  Yeah, it's uh we're - that's all I've got.  I just - JW:  _ gonna adjourn?   DC:  wanted to bring a couple of them things up.  DS:  Motion to adjourn!  ?:  2nd.  DC:  Next mtg 4/15, guys.  JW:  4/15!?  DC:  5/15 I mean, 5/15.  (end 4/17/06 LEV)